Democratic Socialists, Do You Support the DSA?

[struth]

I like the German plan of having workers sitting on corporate boards so the workers have a voice in corporate decision making, but the workers are not going to run the factories. That's assinine.

Workers can sit on the board of companies here in the United States too…anyone can.

Workers can even own and run factories too.

That’s the beauty of freedom in a capitalist system

Not surprised a demafacist supporter admires the German system

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The issue isn’t “soft sell” or “hard sell.” It is a genuine question of what the DSA was, is today, and whether it can ever become relevant tomorrow. Sometimes “programs” are just words on paper.

First, to set the record straight: I am an “independent social democrat” (also an internationalist and anti-imperialist) — which means I accept that capitalism is here to stay, but by no means believe it must be accepted as it is today. This is different than being “a socialist.”

My politics are not extremely different from, but certainly don’t slavishly identify with, parties that are normally called “Labour.” Democratic Socialist parties (which are also often just called “Labour” or “Socialist” parties), regardless of differences in policy or name, all absolutely defend representative parliamentary democracy and the rule of law. It is precisely this that distinguishes them (and “social democratic” parties) from being either “communist” or “totalitarian.”

The program of the small “Democratic Socialists of America” (DSA) is not really typical of most Democratic Socialist parties around the world. The larger socialist parties that have actually governed countries in recent years are official members of the “Socialist International.” They are usually more practical, less “woke” in terms of extremely radical gender issues, and lack American’s strong tendency toward cultural individualism, romantic anarchism and identity politics. They can sometimes be quite conservative on social issues and sometimes quite nationalist.

American “socialists” are rather different. The DSA’s independent appeal to voters as a party is insignificant. The DSA, nevertheless, has grown from just a few thousand members to almost 100,000 in the last few years. It is searching for a way to be effective, but in our two party system with America’s traditional Cold War allergy toward anything even sounding “socialist” … that will be difficult.

An example of more typical and significant democratic socialist parties would include the “Labour Parties” of the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, the “Socialist Parties” of France, Spain, Finland, the “New Democratic Party” of Canada and many, many others in Europe and elsewhere.

The DSA withdrew from the “Socialist International” a few years ago because it felt the Socialist International was too closely allied to U.S. foreign policy, noting that some smaller parties in the Socialist International — like the Venezuelan opposition party then led by Juan Guaidó — were little more than CIA fronts using the “Socialist” label to appear “populist” in their own countries, or where connections to big European socialist parties were useful and provided “cover.”

The program of the DSA — which has never had the responsibility of governing much of anything — is more “woke” and “progressive” and claims to be more radical than most other “democratic socialist” parties. But in practice the DSA has had its main successes when it has run a few charismatic individual candidates inside the main liberal capitalist party in the U.S. — the corporate-controlled Democrats.

I hope this helps to explain some unique aspects of the DSA, and hint at my differences with this mainly middle class party of youthful and often naive “socialists.”

 

[Grumblenuts]

Just thought I would chime in as not a Bernie political fan.

Bernie fan since his first appearance on Thom Hartmann's show back in the mid 80's. No more. Fool me twice? GFY. I still respect his views. He just lacks any balls at crunch time. Nader has remained solid.

 

[struth]

i am a progressive and the only platform i fully endorse was the 1912 bull moose progressive platform.

it is on line. teddy roosevelt would have been a great president!

Um he was president…for 8 years, and VP before that

 

[Dragonlady]

Workers can sit on the board of companies here in the United States too…anyone can.

Workers can even own and run factories too.

That’s the beauty of freedom in a capitalist system

Not surprised a demafacist supporter admires the German system

I didn't say they can't. I'm saying it should be mandatory. As well as municipal officials.. Companies never such people on the Board in the USA. People who have a vested interest in the company BESIDES the people sitting on their asses at home waitiing for their dividends.

Decisions about the lives of the employees who work for a company, and which profoundly impact the communities where these plants are located, are made by Officers and Directors, thousands of miles away, or in another country, which are all rich people the big stock holders know. Their decisions are based on information which will help make the stockholders richer and fuck everyone else.

Corporate decision making should be wholistic, and based on what's best for all who are affected. Not just the people who bought stocks so they could get a share of the income created by others.

It's really easy to email pink slips to people 1000 miles away, that you don't know and will never meet. It's a lot harder to look people in the eye that you work with for years, and tell them you're ending their way of life.

 

[rampart]

He was president.

not as a progressive

 

[rampart]

Um he was president…for 8 years, and VP before that

as a progressive?

 

[struth]

as a progressive?

As a Republican, he only formed the bull moose party when he lost the gop nomination when he ran a third time

He and Taft who got the nomination lost in 1912 to demofascicf Woodrow Wilson

 

[MinTrut]

Found one! Billy000 claims to be one. It's right there under his avi.

No; he’s a conservative.

There’s only one leftist who regularly posts here, and they’re not on this thread.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

No; he’s a conservative.

There’s only one leftist who regularly posts here, and they’re not on this thread.

Ok, I’ll bite. Who is, according to you, the one and only “leftist” who regularly posts here?

 

[lennypartiv]

Shell games are a part of politics. The MAGA movement is constantly moving the goalposts regarding what it means to be a patriot. Apparently, it now means trashing the. Constitution and the Capitol.

Trump predicted the voter fraud before election day. He saw it coming. He wasn't going to sit back and do nothing.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Trump predicted the voter fraud before election day. He saw it coming. He wasn't going to sit back and do nothing.

Wrong … and nothing whatever to do with the OP!

 

[Lakhota]

Who doesn't like American socialism? Why?

75 Ways Socialism Has Improved America​

 

[MinTrut]

You seem to be having trouble locating any Democratic Socialists. That's funny, given how many of them you claim there are.

They’re as common as Nessie and Bigfoot; they’re EVERYWHERE!

 

[Grumblenuts]

Ok, I’ll bite. Who is, according to you, the one and only “leftist” who regularly posts here?

Whoever it is, they've sure pissed off a lot of people here

 

[dblack]

Who doesn't like American socialism? Why?

I don't. Because it erodes liberty and gives government too much power. Socialists say it's all good "because democracy". It's not.

 

[Curried Goats]

Pretty much all social decisions work voluntarily. Let's say there's we're trying to decide on whether we like blue jeans or corduroy. Rather than take a vote, and commit to one or the other, we can just let the market sort it out. Some companies will make blue jeans, some will make corduroy. Some people will buy blue jeans, some will buy corduroy. There's no need for that to be governed by majority rule. It's ok to let some people wear corduroy and some people wear blue jeans.

Yep. That's how stuff works.....

 

[struth]

I didn't say they can't. I'm saying it should be mandatory. As well as municipal officials.. Companies never such people on the Board in the USA. People who have a vested interest in the company BESIDES the people sitting on their asses at home waitiing for their dividends.

Decisions about the lives of the employees who work for a company, and which profoundly impact the communities where these plants are located, are made by Officers and Directors, thousands of miles away, or in another country, which are all rich people the big stock holders know. Their decisions are based on information which will help make the stockholders richer and fuck everyone else.

Corporate decision making should be wholistic, and based on what's best for all who are affected. Not just the people who bought stocks so they could get a share of the income created by others.

It's really easy to email pink slips to people 1000 miles away, that you don't know and will never meet. It's a lot harder to look people in the eye that you work with for years, and tell them you're ending their way of life.

Mandatory? That’s the opposite of freedom

Yes some companies i the United States have employees on the board

Wow a company should also be mandated to have govt officials run it too? Wow you don’t sound fascist at all..

 

[konradv]

Trump predicted the voter fraud before election day. He saw it coming. He wasn't going to sit back and do nothing.

What he says and the truth are too often miles apart.

 

[Dragonlady]

Mandatory? That’s the opposite of freedom

Yes some companies i the United States have employees on the board

Wow a company should also be mandated to have govt officials run it too? Wow you don’t sound fascist at all..

Stupid incel. Managing a corporation isn't about "freedumb". How brainwashed are you?

The Board of Directors doesn't "run" the corporation. The officers do that. The Directors offer advice and oversight of the officers, to protect the interests of the Shareholders, and approve any major purchase or sale of assets, officers salaries and bonuses. If the company is selling out and moving manufacturing to India, the employees and the community SHOULD have SOME input.

Running a business is the opposite of "Freedumb". Corporations are heavily regulated, and organized. Who can be on the board is already regulated so changing the regulation isn't taking away your "freedumb", it's just amending it.

You incorporate for tax breaks, government incentives and to limit liability. You subject yourself to regulation in exchange for the financial benefits and protections incorporation provides.

Explaining anything to cultists is like explaining things to small children who aren't very smart.