Democratic Myth No. 1: GOP is to blame for failure of Obama’s job policies

[TakeAStepBack]

The logic here is that failures were success. Which is about as completely ridiculous as one can get.


GM = heading back down the road of "needing a bailout".

TARP = Implemented by Bush, not Obama. Worse yet, it's "success
" is debatable.

Stimulus = Based on its projected performance, setting aside any predicitive assumptions, was a failure to deliver. Even the fucking president admits it. Yet somehow, you supporters didn't get the memo.

Because there is no arguing with this logical fallacy.

Cheers.

 

[Bfgrn]

What's the matter? Your own link too hard for you to follow so you repost a chart?

Nice try but you failed. It was your source. BTW, where is the chart from? I may have missed it but it isn't on the CBO link.

They are two different charts, why? Because they measure two different things.

The CBO chart measures: Federal Debt Held by the Public Under CBO’s Long-Term Budget Scenarios (Percentage of gross domestic product)

I asked for a link to them. I'd like to see it. Too much to ask?

There is a link for the CBO chart. Look for the underlined CBO.

The other chart is from this website. The chart source is the Bureau of Labor Statistics

 

[edthecynic]

So, here we are in 2012. What is the unemployment percentage, TM?

Can you tell the board?

7.8%

Gallup Daily: U.S. Employment

People love their pleasantries.

Real Unemployment Rate Hits 11.7% As Spread Between Reported And Propaganda Data Hits Record | ZeroHedge

Real Unemployment Rate Hits 11.7% As Spread Between Reported And Propaganda Data Hits Record

Today's reported unemployment rate: 8.1%. The reason: the labor "participation" dropped to a 31 year low 63.5% as reported earlier. Of course, this number is pure propaganda, and makes no sense for one simple reason: despite the economic collapse started in December 2007, the US civilian non-institutional population since then has grown by 186,000 people every month on average hitting an all time high of 243,566,000 in August. These people need a job, and the traditional shorthand is that at least 100,000 jobs have the be generated every month for the unemployment rate to merely stay flat, let along improve. So what does one get when one uses the long-term average of the past 30 or so years which happens to be 65.8%? One gets an unemployment number that is 45% higher than the reported 8.1%, or 11.7%. That is what the real unemployment rate is assuming the US labor participation rate was realistic and not manipulated by the BLS cronies and the Bank of Spain assisted Arima-X-13 seasonal adjustment models. It also means that, as the chart below shows, the spread between the real and propaganda data hit an all time record, which was to be expected two months ahead of America's... presidential election.

One gets a phony made up number based on the moronic assumption that there are not more Boomers retiring now than past retirees!

 

[Sallow]

The logic here is that failures were success. Which is about as completely ridiculous as one can get.


GM = heading back down the road of "needing a bailout".

TARP = Implemented by Bush, not Obama. Worse yet, it's "success
" is debatable.

Stimulus = Based on its projected performance, setting aside any predicitive assumptions, was a failure to deliver. Even the fucking president admits it. Yet somehow, you supporters didn't get the memo.

Because there is no arguing with this logical fallacy.

Cheers.

Heading down the road of "needing a bailout" by who's calculus? Steve Forbes? Seriously?

And TARP could have been stopped by executive order..or completely blown during the time it was implemented. How? Dunno..but it seems the Bush administration "lost" billions in Iraq. Just lost it.

Again..by the numbers put out there..by the people scoring what it would do..it was a success. Add in the Bush numbers on the debt were all wrong..and the shape of the economy was far worse then the Bush adminstration let on. That's evidenced by the collapse of employment before the stimulus was implemented. Unemployment went up to around 10%. After it was implemented..growth in employment has been slow..but steady.

In any case..what's the great solution Romney is advocating? He says the government doesn't create jobs, right?

Unless of course..when it does.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

OK. I've provided the information clearly stating that the stimulus failed to meet its measured expectations. By far. But who wants to view those facts when one can just claim "success" over and over and over and over.

It's pointless to provide someone who refuses to see the information clearly stating the obvious.

Forbes alone on GM?

No, here. Not thet you'll read it or care. Because you want to BELIEVE!!! BELIEVE damn, it!!! BELIEVE!!

7 reasons GM is headed to bankruptcy - ABC News

7 reasons GM is headed to bankruptcy


Obama’s GM ‘Success Story’ Headed for Bankruptcy | FrontPage Magazine

Obama’s GM ‘Success Story’ Headed for Bankruptcy

General Motors Is Headed for Bankruptcy--Again

General Motors Is Headed for Bankruptcy--Again



What does TARP and Bush losing money in Iraq have to do with each other? It's like pushing strings with boozoos like you.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

7.8%

Gallup Daily: U.S. Employment

People love their pleasantries.

Real Unemployment Rate Hits 11.7% As Spread Between Reported And Propaganda Data Hits Record | ZeroHedge

Real Unemployment Rate Hits 11.7% As Spread Between Reported And Propaganda Data Hits Record

Today's reported unemployment rate: 8.1%. The reason: the labor "participation" dropped to a 31 year low 63.5% as reported earlier. Of course, this number is pure propaganda, and makes no sense for one simple reason: despite the economic collapse started in December 2007, the US civilian non-institutional population since then has grown by 186,000 people every month on average hitting an all time high of 243,566,000 in August. These people need a job, and the traditional shorthand is that at least 100,000 jobs have the be generated every month for the unemployment rate to merely stay flat, let along improve. So what does one get when one uses the long-term average of the past 30 or so years which happens to be 65.8%? One gets an unemployment number that is 45% higher than the reported 8.1%, or 11.7%. That is what the real unemployment rate is assuming the US labor participation rate was realistic and not manipulated by the BLS cronies and the Bank of Spain assisted Arima-X-13 seasonal adjustment models. It also means that, as the chart below shows, the spread between the real and propaganda data hit an all time record, which was to be expected two months ahead of America's... presidential election.

One gets a phony made up number based on the moronic assumption that there are not more Boomers retiring now than past retirees!

Quick! Make something up!!!

 

[NYcarbineer]

People love their pleasantries.

Real Unemployment Rate Hits 11.7% As Spread Between Reported And Propaganda Data Hits Record | ZeroHedge

Real Unemployment Rate Hits 11.7% As Spread Between Reported And Propaganda Data Hits Record

Today's reported unemployment rate: 8.1%. The reason: the labor "participation" dropped to a 31 year low 63.5% as reported earlier. Of course, this number is pure propaganda, and makes no sense for one simple reason: despite the economic collapse started in December 2007, the US civilian non-institutional population since then has grown by 186,000 people every month on average hitting an all time high of 243,566,000 in August. These people need a job, and the traditional shorthand is that at least 100,000 jobs have the be generated every month for the unemployment rate to merely stay flat, let along improve. So what does one get when one uses the long-term average of the past 30 or so years which happens to be 65.8%? One gets an unemployment number that is 45% higher than the reported 8.1%, or 11.7%. That is what the real unemployment rate is assuming the US labor participation rate was realistic and not manipulated by the BLS cronies and the Bank of Spain assisted Arima-X-13 seasonal adjustment models. It also means that, as the chart below shows, the spread between the real and propaganda data hit an all time record, which was to be expected two months ahead of America's... presidential election.

Nice chart.

So, the unemployment rate was really much higher than reported for Ronald Reagan's entire presidency??

Hmmm...don't be so harsh on the Gipper, he's a conservative legend.

lol

You really have to deflect to over 30 years ago?

It's your chart. Why did you post a chart including the Reagan presidency if you didn't want it to be part of the conversation?

Looks to me like any attack on Obama that one might spin out of YOUR chart applies equally to Ronald Reagan.

Do you wish to acknowledge that FACT?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Sure. I'll acknowledge it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic and furthermore, proves NOTHING. Do you have a point regarding the deflection of the current state of affairs to 30+ years ago?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

And just to show Ed is making false assertions:

Looks to me like the retiree age workforce is not retiring. Which would account for the reason the younger generations entering the workforce have the highest unemployment rates.

Ooops.

 

[Bfgrn]

TARP was signed into law by Bush, adn it's "success" is debatable.

The auto bailout is a failure in that it skewed the industry and GM is teetering again on another bankruptcy. Which it should have to go through. Along with restructuring or a coffin.

The stimulus was only a success if you lower the bar far enough. What it was sold to accomplish, it fell extremely short. In other words based on what it was suppose to accomplish, it fucking failed, fella.

You're welcome.

TARP was a success. The fact that you have a wall street where America still owns majority shares in major financial companies proves it. Lehman was a "proof of concept".

And the auto industry is thriving again...not "teetering". American cars are on top..world wide. That's not failure.

And there was no bar "lowered", the stimulus met the numbers it was scored to meet. The number of people that kept their jobs or were employed, was essentially the numbers that were projected by the stimulus.

You guys either do not recognize the extent of the damage caused by the Bush administration or live in an alternate reality.

General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again - Forbes

General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again

Right now, the federal government owns 500,000,000 shares of GM, or about 26% of the company. It would need to get about $53.00/share for these to break even on the bailout, but the stock closed at only $20.21/share on Tuesday. This left the government holding $10.1 billion worth of stock, and sitting on an unrealized loss of $16.4 billion.

Right now, the government’s GM stock is worth about 39% less than it was on November 17, 2010, when the company went public at $33.00/share. However, during the intervening time, the Dow Jones Industrial Average has risen by almost 20%, so GM shares have lost 49% of their value relative to the Dow.

So, first you say TARP, which is a Bush policy, is a success. Then you say the Bush administration caused all the damage. You can't have it both ways. Well, youre a LOLberal. I guess you can. Of course Im sure you attribute the TARP "success" to Obama.

Revisiting Unemployment Predictions | e21 - Economic Policies for the 21st Century

Back in January 2009, Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein produced a report estimating future unemployment rates with and without a stimulus plan. Their estimates, which were widely circulated, projected that unemployment would approach 9% without a stimulus, but would never exceed 8% with the plan. The estimates, along with real unemployment rates, are posted below

In May 2011, using the latest figures available from the BLS, the unemployment rate reached 9.1%. In contrast, the Romer and Bernstein projections estimated that the unemployment rate would be around 8.1% for this month without a recovery plan, or 6.8% with a stimulus plan (which was ultimately passed). The actual unemployment rate has been consistently above Romer and Bernstein’s worse case scenario for the economy – and by a considerable margin. They projected that the unemployment rate would never climb above 9%. As time has passed, it turns out that only two months out of the last two years have seen an unemployment rate lower than 9%

General Motors is NOT heading for bankruptcy again. I think a better understanding of who wrote the OP and WHY is in order.

GM is not following the old business model that led to a glut of rapid turnover creating too many late-model vehicles at auction, depressing used vehicle prices and making depreciation rates for 2- and 3-year old vehicles of the make uncompetitive.

Here are the facts: GM had $152 billion in total assets at the end of the second quarter, compared with $110.4 billion in liabilities.

The company's stock is down about one-third from its November 2010 initial public offering price of $33, but it's been rebounding lately. Shares closed at $22.01 on Friday, up 3.2% for the day. It has risen 12% since Aug. 1.

Most analysts, in fact, have argued that GM stock is undervalued.

"Ford and GM may have bottomed and are poised for a rally; GM remains our top pick, but bullish on Ford as well," Barclays analysts wrote in a research note Friday.

From Former General Motors Vice Chairman Bob Lutz:

Despite a $7.6-billion profit in 2011 and $2.5 billion in the first two quarters of 2012, GM "seems unable to develop products that are truly competitive in the U.S. market," Forbes contributor Louis Woodhill wrote this week.

In his posting Woodhill said he has a bachelor of science degree in mechanical engineering and is a software entrepreneur. He also serves on the leadership council of the ultraconservative, anti-tax nonprofit Club For Growth.

"The fact that he would focus on GM's admittedly-lower U.S. market share as a harbinger of impending doom demonstrates the most profound lack of understanding of the vehicle business," Lutz wrote under a headline "Chicken Little's Second GM Bankruptcy: A Gold Medal for Silly Op-Ed Pieces."

"The company is gaining strength," Lutz continued. "It remembers the lessons of the past. It does not shy from its well-documented problems, such as GM Europe; instead, it addresses them head on. To suggest that a cash-rich, profitable company with these characteristics is about to go under is, to me, 'fatuous twaddle.' "

 

[edthecynic]

And just to show Ed is making false assertions:

Looks to me like the retiree age workforce is not retiring. Which would account for the reason the younger generations entering the workforce have the highest unemployment rates.

Ooops.

Again just more stupidity. All that chart shows is Boomers are aging. It does not show how many Boomers are retiring. In 2011 there were 2,598,067 new retirees getting benefits for the first time, whereas in 2007 there were 2,050,548 and in 1976 there were 1,475,585. So clearly we have more people reaching retirement age than in the past.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Yes, the company is growing strong. Losing 49% or so of its stock value.....

 

[TakeAStepBack]

And just to show Ed is making false assertions:

Looks to me like the retiree age workforce is not retiring. Which would account for the reason the younger generations entering the workforce have the highest unemployment rates.

Ooops.

Again just more stupidity. All that chart shows is Boomers are aging. It does not show how many Boomers are retiring. In 2011 there were 2,598,067 new retirees getting benefits for the first time, whereas in 2007 there were 2,050,548 and in 1976 there were 1,475,585. So clearly we have more people reaching retirement age than in the past.

It shows an INCREASE in the total percentage of 65 yr old or over labor participation, you fucking half-wit.

 

[edthecynic]

And just to show Ed is making false assertions:

Looks to me like the retiree age workforce is not retiring. Which would account for the reason the younger generations entering the workforce have the highest unemployment rates.

Ooops.

Again just more stupidity. All that chart shows is Boomers are aging. It does not show how many Boomers are retiring. In 2011 there were 2,598,067 new retirees getting benefits for the first time, whereas in 2007 there were 2,050,548 and in 1976 there were 1,475,585. So clearly we have more people reaching retirement age than in the past.

It shows an INCREASE in the total percentage of 65 yr old or over labor participation, you fucking half-wit.

And as I have shown there is also an increase in the number of retirees, which simply means there are more Boomers than past generations. You are making the stupid assumption that the number of people over 65 is a constant, so if more people over 65 are working then less must be retiring, which is moronic. Since the number of people over 65 is GROWING you can and do have both more workers over 65 and more retirees.

 

[Bfgrn]

Yes, the company is growing strong. Losing 49% or so of its stock value.....

I know you folks on the right are rooting for GM to fail. It really makes me sick to my stomach. How are you folks any different than the terrorists who want America to fail?

But GM is not going bankrupt, as hard as you cheer for her demise.

More Evidence That GM Is Not Going Bankrupt - Forbes

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I'm not on the right. Now I'm a terrorist for pointing out that GM is losing its ass adn still owes the taxpayers billions? There stocks are down significantly and the taxpayers own those stocks. We all lose. Yet some how, I'm a terrorist.

And I'm not cheering. I'm pointing out the fact that GM is yet again, losing ground after a bailout they didn't even yet payback. Believe what you want about GM. Time will tell the tale.

But calling people you disagree with a terrorist is about as low as you can go. Really. You should seriously consider a major fuck off.

 

[longknife]

All these pages of the Looney Left doing everything possible to divert attention from the main point. "Facts" and links all from liberal sites like the HuffPost.

They can't stand or don't want the truth.

Obuma got everything he wanted in the first 2 years. Except a budget, of course!

Then, the American people got fed up and elected a whole bunch of conservative representatives who went to Congress to carry out their promises to their constituents. The Democrats? Samo, samo - no concern for anything but their own political careers.

Who is blocking almost every piece of legislation sent by the House to the Senate?

Page after page of posts right out of the Democrat Party Playbook.

 

[mudwhistle]

Myth: Democrats had 2 years of fillibuster proof senate.

Yeah, so they passed their shit with the reconcilliation rules so all they needed was a simple majority.

 

[mudwhistle]

Yes, the company is growing strong. Losing 49% or so of its stock value.....

I know you folks on the right are rooting for GM to fail. It really makes me sick to my stomach. How are you folks any different than the terrorists who want America to fail?

But GM is not going bankrupt, as hard as you cheer for her demise.

More Evidence That GM Is Not Going Bankrupt - Forbes

We don't have to root for it.

It's eventually going to happen if they don't change their practices.

They've borrowed $50 billion and the result will be the same, just delayed.