Democracy and Freedom

[georgephillip]

Beware of the Entitlement mentality. This mentality clouds the brain and causes one to become very irrational. It causes severe confusion in those who have that mentality. It's actually very sad.

You should mention that to the 1%.

They are the ones who feel entitled to 20% of US income and nearly 40% of US wealth.

Really? How about posting the boasts.

Is Robert Reich credible?

"Yet income and wealth are now more concentrated than they’ve been in 70 years. The top 1 percent gets over 20 percent of total income and holds over 35 percent of national wealth; the richest 400 Americans have more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans put together..."

Robert Reich

 

[Full-Auto]

You should mention that to the 1%.

They are the ones who feel entitled to 20% of US income and nearly 40% of US wealth.

Really? How about posting the boasts.

Is Robert Reich credible?

"Yet income and wealth are now more concentrated than they’ve been in 70 years. The top 1 percent gets over 20 percent of total income and holds over 35 percent of national wealth; the richest 400 Americans have more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans put together..."

Robert Reich

You said they feel entitled. Some quotes from the 1% Please....

 

[Contumacious]

Over the last forty years the richest 1% of Americans have seen their share of aggregate income nearly triple. .

Federal Budget

Department of health and Human Services ........................79 BBBBBBBBBBBBillion $$$$$

Medicare/Medicaid.........................................................793 BBBBBBBBBBBBillion $$$$$

Social Security ..............................................................701 BBBBBBBillion $$$$$$

Grand Total ..............................1,5 73 TTTTTTTrillion $$$$$$


Over the last forty years the parasitic 99% of Americans have seen their share of aggregate income nearly triple. They've accomplished that by voting early and often for liberal politicians and compassionate conservatives.

.

 

[bripat9643]

Is Robert Reich credible?

No. He's socialist toady.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So you see democracy as a counter to economic power?

Yes, without the people constantly pushing for democracy, power will concentrate in ever fewer hands, direct democracy is probably an impossibility but it is the goal we must work towards or before we know it we will not even have the illusion of democracy.

So your idea of democracy is to use mob rule to inhibit the freedoms of people you don't like.

Got it.

Bingo!!!
Here's the issue I have with direct democracy. Not the idea in and of itself but how it is implemented.
Let's have a look at two states which have a form of direct democracy. California, which has voters finding 'propositions' on the ballot each election day. These props are placed on the ballot via petition. While I have no objection to the voters getting their chance to have a direct voice in government, I do object to the process itself.
For example. If California has a Prop on the ballot and on election day turn out is low. 25%. That means just one quarter of all voters take the opportunity to have a say so. Now, I firmly support the notion that voting is not a right but a DUTY, if people do not vote it is their problem. However it is at this point where propositions can be dangerous. If so few get to decide the decision is invalid.
I think that if a Prop is on the ballot and a quorum of voters do not vote, the Prop vote should be voided. BTW, the second state, New Jersey, has statewide binding referendums. Such as the one that approved casino gambling in Atlantic City. However, the one difference is that to my knowledge referendums are placed on the ballot by government and not by petition. Still it's close to direct democracy.
Simple majority rule has it's pros and cons.
It can be harmful though. I oppose it.

 

[bripat9643]

You should mention that to the 1%.

They are the ones who feel entitled to 20% of US income and nearly 40% of US wealth.

They are legally entitled to what they have earned, nitwit. Your belief that anyone else is entitled to it doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Except they haven't earned it, Tool.
They've bribed politicians to let them steal it.

That's true of some rich people, like all of Obama's rich friends. However, the vast majority of rich people earned their money by producing a product or service. Every dollar they received was the result of a voluntary exchange, not the coercion of taxation.

 

[georgephillip]

They are legally entitled to what they have earned, nitwit. Your belief that anyone else is entitled to it doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Except they haven't earned it, Tool.
They've bribed politicians to let them steal it.

That's true of some rich people, like all of Obama's rich friends. However, the vast majority of rich people earned their money by producing a product or service. Every dollar they received was the result of a voluntary exchange, not the coercion of taxation.

"Hank Paulson and Goldman Sachs Are RICO Enterprises

"This New York Times expose on Henry Paulson and Goldman Sachs makes one thing clear: There is now no doubt that Henry Paulson and Goldman Sachs have violate numerous federal laws. Paulson laundered several billion dollars of money to Goldman Sachs, through A.I.G. Paulson lied to Congress about the true nature of TARP.

"Paulson lied to Congress about his role in the Federal Reserve's decision to give over $185 billion to A.I.G. "

Crime & Federalism: Hank Paulson and Goldman Sachs Are RICO Enterprises

The fraud and corruption in this country is bipartisan.

 

[georgephillip]

Over the last forty years the richest 1% of Americans have seen their share of aggregate income nearly triple. .

Federal Budget

Department of health and Human Services ........................79 BBBBBBBBBBBBillion $$$$$

Medicare/Medicaid.........................................................793 BBBBBBBBBBBBillion $$$$$

Social Security ..............................................................701 BBBBBBBillion $$$$$$

Grand Total ..............................1,5 73 TTTTTTTrillion $$$$$$


Over the last forty years the parasitic 99% of Americans have seen their share of aggregate income nearly triple. They've accomplished that by voting early and often for liberal politicians and compassionate conservatives.

.

Why are you including Social Security and not the Pentagon?

 

[Contumacious]

Over the last forty years the richest 1% of Americans have seen their share of aggregate income nearly triple. .

Federal Budget

Department of health and Human Services ........................79 BBBBBBBBBBBBillion $$$$$

Medicare/Medicaid.........................................................793 BBBBBBBBBBBBillion $$$$$

Social Security ..............................................................701 BBBBBBBillion $$$$$$

Grand Total ..............................1,5 73 TTTTTTTrillion $$$$$$


Over the last forty years the parasitic 99% of Americans have seen their share of aggregate income nearly triple. They've accomplished that by voting early and often for liberal politicians and compassionate conservatives.

.

Why are you including Social Security and not the Pentagon?

You know you are right.

The welfare/warfare state does use the military to transfer of wealth.

Offer accepted.

.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Over the last forty years the richest 1% of Americans have seen their share of aggregate income nearly triple. .

Federal Budget

Department of health and Human Services ........................79 BBBBBBBBBBBBillion $$$$$

Medicare/Medicaid.........................................................793 BBBBBBBBBBBBillion $$$$$

Social Security ..............................................................701 BBBBBBBillion $$$$$$

Grand Total ..............................1,5 73 TTTTTTTrillion $$$$$$


Over the last forty years the parasitic 99% of Americans have seen their share of aggregate income nearly triple. They've accomplished that by voting early and often for liberal politicians and compassionate conservatives.

.

Why are you including Social Security and not the Pentagon?

Because it's not a social program?

 

[georgephillip]

Because Social Security has a $2.6 trillion dollar surplus and doesn't dodge audits?

Social Security Trust Funds

 

[Contumacious]

Federal Budget

Department of health and Human Services ........................79 BBBBBBBBBBBBillion $$$$$

Medicare/Medicaid.........................................................793 BBBBBBBBBBBBillion $$$$$

Social Security ..............................................................701 BBBBBBBillion $$$$$$

Grand Total ..............................1,5 73 TTTTTTTrillion $$$$$$


Over the last forty years the parasitic 99% of Americans have seen their share of aggregate income nearly triple. They've accomplished that by voting early and often for liberal politicians and compassionate conservatives.

.

Why are you including Social Security and not the Pentagon?

Because it's not a social program?

Well, defense is not supposed to be a social program - but liberal politicians use the military as a social program. Most of the activities now taking place in military bases have nothing to do with defending the country.

.

.

 

[Wiseacre]

Why are you including Social Security and not the Pentagon?

Because it's not a social program?

Well, defense is not supposed to be a social program - but liberal politicians use the military as a social program. Most of the activities now taking place in military bases have nothing to do with defending the country.

.

.

I don't think so dude. Don't know where you got that idea.

 

[Contumacious]

Because it's not a social program?

Well, defense is not supposed to be a social program - but liberal politicians use the military as a social program. Most of the activities now taking place in military bases have nothing to do with defending the country.

.

.

I don't think so dude. Don't know where you got that idea.

Come on man, show some respect. I left the First United States Army in 1971 as an E4. Ten-Hut.

Here for your reading pleasure:

That Reckless Protection Racket of Military Socialism and Fascism

.

 

[Wiseacre]

Well, defense is not supposed to be a social program - but liberal politicians use the military as a social program. Most of the activities now taking place in military bases have nothing to do with defending the country.

.

.

I don't think so dude. Don't know where you got that idea.

Come on man, show some respect. I left the First United States Army in 1971 as an E4. Ten-Hut.

Here for your reading pleasure:

That Reckless Protection Racket of Military Socialism and Fascism

.

At ease soldier, I respect your opinion but do not share it. I did read your link, thanks for sharing.

 

[bripat9643]

Because Social Security has a $2.6 trillion dollar surplus and doesn't dodge audits?

Social Security Trust Funds

There's nothing in the so-called Trust Fund.

 

[editec]

Because Social Security has a $2.6 trillion dollar surplus and doesn't dodge audits?

Social Security Trust Funds

There's nothing in the so-called Trust Fund.

No?

Well then there is also no national debt.

If social security is bankrupt because the bonds it holds are meaningless, so too every debt owed by this nation is meaningless.

Now the world obvious disagrees with you.

But hey you may be right and the rest of the world totally wrong.

 

[bripat9643]

Because Social Security has a $2.6 trillion dollar surplus and doesn't dodge audits?

Social Security Trust Funds

There's nothing in the so-called Trust Fund.

No?

Well then there is also no national debt.

If social security is bankrupt because the bonds it holds are meaningless, so too every debt owed by this nation is meaningless.

Now the world obvious disagrees with you.

But hey you may be right and the rest of the world totally wrong.

Wrongo.

this issue has already been discussed to death, so I won't bother attempting to prove it again to the terminally clueless. It takes a special kind of stupid to believe government I.O.U's written to itself are worth anything.

 

[georgephillip]

What's generating my monthly SSA benefits and millions of others just like them?
Sales from Iraqi weapons of mass destruction or Hank Paulson's AIG bonus?

"Assets grew from about $47 billion at the end of December 1986 to about $2,609 billion ($2.6 trillion) by the end of December 2010."

Social Security Trust Funds

 

[Dragon]

Those who claim to want the government out of the economy are ignoring, in my opinion, all of the bedrock ways in which the government creates a capitalist economy. Property rights aren't natural -- nature does not supply title deeds. Limited liability is a government artifice. For that matter, MONEY is a government artifice. The structure of law that says those who own the capital property used to produce goods own the goods, as opposed to those who do the labor, is another part of the system. So those who say that the government should get out of the economy are usually saying that it should only get out partway. Without government intervention, a capitalist economy wouldn't even be possible.

Historically, further government involvement has been undertaken either to seek some public good, or to rectify some public wrong -- or to serve the interests of those who bribe the government. (That last touches on the thread topic, of course.) Granted without reservation that the government should cease serving the interests of those who bribe it -- a problem whose cure consists of DEMOCRACY (either direct or, if we can make it work, representative) -- but government action to seek a public good or rectify a public wrong, that I have no problem with, as long as we're wealthy enough as a nation to afford it.