Deep Shame

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
Talk about bullshit. Just because you are predisposed to a certain behavior does NOT mean that you must engage in it.

For example:

alcoholics can and do stop drinking
addicted smokers have quit
addicted drug users have quit
clinically depressed people can overcome it
people with ADHD can overcome it

Your examples are specious. Alcoholics, smokers and drug abuseres are saddled with fighting their condition for a lifetime. Those conditions are the result of addictive personality disorders. Depression can also often require a lifetime of drug and psycho therapy. ADHD is treated with medication, also sometimes for a lifetime. The conditions you cite, especially the first three, can and do cause immense harm to their sufferers and those around them. They are not medical or moral equivalents.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Your examples are specious. Alcoholics, smokers and drug abuseres are saddled with fighting their condition for a lifetime. Those conditions are the result of addictive personality disorders. Depression can also often require a lifetime of drug and psycho therapy. ADHD is treated with medication, also sometimes for a lifetime. The conditions you cite, especially the first three, can and do cause immense harm to their sufferers and those around them. They are not medical or moral equivalents.

Says you. I think they are completely relevant. I am not suggesting that people who are afflicted with these issues be stripped of their rights just like I'm not saying homosexuals should be stripped of their constitutional rights. However, behavior can and is regulated, controlled and clearly correctable.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Your examples are specious. Alcoholics, smokers and drug abuseres are saddled with fighting their condition for a lifetime. Those conditions are the result of addictive personality disorders. Depression can also often require a lifetime of drug and psycho therapy. ADHD is treated with medication, also sometimes for a lifetime. The conditions you cite, especially the first three, can and do cause immense harm to their sufferers and those around them. They are not medical or moral equivalents.

What is equivalent amongst all of them is that they are diseases.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by OCA
Its not about fear, its about limits. You have to set limits somewhere, not everything thats seemingly pleasureable even though its undeniably wrong can be permissable.

Limits on what? The free and open expression of two peoples commitment to one another?

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
Says you. I think they are completely relevant. I am not suggesting that people who are afflicted with these issues be stripped of their rights just like I'm not saying homosexuals should be stripped of their constitutional rights. However, behavior can and is regulated, controlled and clearly correctable.

Homosexuality is not an affliction, it is not a disease to be cured...It simply is. However, regulating and controlling the behavior of European Jews is what Hitler had in mind.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Limits on what? The free and open expression of two peoples commitment to one another?

They are free to express themselves and commit to one another. They just won't be doing so via marriage.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by jimnyc
They are free to express themselves and commit to one another. They just won't be doing so via marriage.

Why not, What is so threatening about the concept? And don't tell me that you don't feel threatened...The responses here show otherwise.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Why not, What is so threatening about the concept? And don't tell me that you don't feel threatened...The responses here show otherwise.

Why can't they just have a 'civil union' and then be afforded all the same rights as everyone else? I just don't want it called a marriage.

I don't feel personally threatened by drunk drivers, but I would still speak out to keep drinking and driving illegal.

I think it lowers what I know of marriage. I don't want the sanctity of marriage ruined.

 

[OCA]

For the sake of argument lets say that through some miracle they recieve a national right to marry. Will you then, Bully, support them when they infiltrate the educational system more than they already have and make homosexual studies ie that homosexuality is safe and a viable and equal alternative to heterosexuality. If you have children will you be able to stomach their sex ed homework concerning two males? Because thats where we are headed if not stopped here.

 

[jimnyc]

The day homosexual studies are taught in school my son will then go to a private school or be home taught.

 

[jon_forward]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Why not? Are you familiar with the concept of equal protection under the law? Many of the same arguments being made here against the marriage of same gender couples are the same ones used to deny the marriages of mixed-race couples up until the 1960's.

As for HIV, it started amongst the heterosexual population in West Africa. It is not a "gay-disease". It's an equal opportunity killer.

having sex with a monkey is not hetro....and no the same arguments are NOT being used here as they were in the 60s.....a marriage is between man and woman...you still ahvent answered the question...why are YOU pushing the envelope so hard??? its being pushed so hard that all gained is lost and you dont even realize it.

 

[OCA]

Its already happening i'm afraid. Remember the "Heather Has Two Mommys" deal?

 

[jon_forward]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Why can't they just have a 'civil union' and then be afforded all the same rights as everyone else? I just don't want it called a marriage.

I don't feel personally threatened by drunk drivers, but I would still speak out to keep drinking and driving illegal.

I think it lowers what I know of marriage. I don't want the sanctity of marriage ruined.

 

[jon_forward]

Bully...what has become clear is you are not able to answer any questions with answers just more questions....If and when this issue comes up for a vote....vote your ideals, there are more then enough that feel differently than you so i doubt it will pass..and as for Hitler...WTF does he have to do with any of this...

 

[Big D]

Longevity

Raising a child to adulthood is a twenty-year task. Adoption agencies generally require adoptive parents to be less than about 40 years old so that they are likely to be fit and active until the child reaches adulthood.

Homosexual longevity has been studied by a US research team headed by Dr Paul Cameron, published in 1994. Over 13 years, the team compared 6737 obituaries from 18 US homosexual publications with a large sample of obituaries from regular newspapers. Those from the regular newspapers were similar to US averages for longevity: the median age of death (ie the age at which half had died) for married men was 75 and for married women was 79 years. For unmarried or divorced men the median age of death was 57 and for unmarried women it was 71 years.

Homosexuals had a much shorter life span. The male homosexuals who died of AIDS had a median age at death of only 39 and those who died of non-AIDS causes lived only slightly longer - to a median age of 42 years. The lesbians were similar - they had a median age of death of 44 years.

The contrast in survival to age 65 was even more stark. The regular newspapers showed that 80% of married men and 85% of married women reached 65 years and so did 32% of unmarried or divorced men and 60% of unmarried women. For homosexuals the picture was grim: only 1% of homosexual men with AIDS, just 9% of other homosexual men and 20% of lesbians reached 65 years.

Three percent of male homosexuals died violently - they were 116 times more likely to be murdered, were much more likely to commit suicide and had more road accidents than other people. Heart attacks, cancer and liver failure were exceptionally common. For lesbians 18% died of murder, suicide or accidents - a rate 456 times higher than other women their age. Almost a third of the lesbians died from cancer, often of the reproductive organs.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Homosexuality is not an affliction, it is not a disease to be cured...It simply is. However, regulating and controlling the behavior of European Jews is what Hitler had in mind.

No, erradicating them is what he had in mind and what he tried to do. You can try to paint me with the same brush as a nazi but you'll only look ridiculous in the end. No where in my posts or in anyone else's post (except Big D) have we indicated that homosexuals should be killed or rounded up and put in concentration camps.

You are a poor example of a rational human being if your brain can't comprehend the difference and use your brain only for such childish and misguided finger pointing.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
No, erradicating them is what he had in mind and what he tried to do. You can try to paint me with the same brush as a nazi but you'll only look ridiculous in the end. No where in my posts or in anyone else's post (except Big D) have we indicated that homosexuals should be killed or rounded up and put in concentration camps.

You are a poor example of a rational human being if your brain can't comprehend the difference and use your brain only for such childish and misguided finger pointing.

Such was never my intention...Just wanted you to stop anfd think.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by jon_forward
Bully...what has become clear is you are not able to answer any questions with answers just more questions....If and when this issue comes up for a vote....vote your ideals, there are more then enough that feel differently than you so i doubt it will pass

I keep answering with questions because I have yet to see a rational answer to them.

 

[Big D]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
I keep answering with questions because I have yet to see a rational answer to them.

According to Dr. Stanley Monteith, author of "Aids, the Unnecessary Epidemic" 93% of homosexuals engage in anal sex. 92% engage in licking the anus. 47% engage in "fisting" (If you don't know what that is, I'm not going to be the one to tell you.) 29% engage in "golden showers" (urinating on each other and in each others' mouths)."

http://www.otherside.net/homonorm.htm

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Big D
According to Dr. Stanley Monteith, author of "Aids, the Unnecessary Epidemic" 93% of homosexuals engage in anal sex. 92% engage in licking the anus. 47% engage in "fisting" (If you don't know what that is, I'm not going to be the one to tell you.) 29% engage in "golden showers" (urinating on each other and in each others' mouths)."

http://www.otherside.net/homonorm.htm

I SAID rational answers, not mindless spouting of meaningless statistics.