Decline of traditional family. Who is to blame?

[Brian_1349]

I blame Hitler.

No, really!

World War Two saw a huge demographic shift in the American economy. While the boys were off fighting a war and humping exotic natives, the womenfolk had to be recruited to go to work in our factories. Rosie the Riveter.

When the boys came home and wanted their jobs backs, the women had gotten a taste of holding a "real" job and handling money and being independent.

Nothing has been the same since.

As women gained their financial and emotional independence, all hell broke loose.

Then you throw in the invention of the birth control pill in the 60s and now woman can play the field the way men have been for millennia.

This led to a huge shift in the imbalance of power in marriages. It kind of ticks off some guys when their wife wants to be treated as an equal partner in the relationship.

"What do you mean you want ME to change Junior's diaper, woman? You see this gray flannel suit I'm wearing? I'm an important man!"

We've lost 0.32% of our population in the WWII. The shift in demographics was tiny.
More than that, baby boom happened right after the war. After the war people wanted to enjoy peaceful life, create families and make babies. It all started later, when baby boom generation faded into insignificance.

 

[Brian_1349]

Approximately every third marriage gets disrupted. Fertility rate is dropping. 397,122 children in the US live without permanent families. The notion of family is transforming. So is our attitude to traditional family values. Gays are not the reason, they are the cause. It is not possible for LGBT community to affect our mentality, we are the ones destroying the image and value of traditional family in the US.

Let me try to follow your logic - gays can not effect your mentality, but they can cause you to not take your marriage vows seriously... simply by their existence?



Homophobia is a mental illness that causes a detachment from reality.

This thread is not about gays, it is about traditional family and values.

 

[RKMBrown]

Approximately every third marriage gets disrupted. Fertility rate is dropping. 397,122 children in the US live without permanent families. The notion of family is transforming. So is our attitude to traditional family values. Gays are not the reason, they are the cause. It is not possible for LGBT community to affect our mentality, we are the ones destroying the image and value of traditional family in the US.

Let me try to follow your logic - gays can not effect your mentality, but they can cause you to not take your marriage vows seriously... simply by their existence?



Homophobia is a mental illness that causes a detachment from reality.

This thread is not about gays, it is about traditional family and values.

Then why did you say: Gays are not the reason, they are the cause. You do know that the word they applies to the most recently used noun right?

If you meant to say it's not the gay's it's the families themselves who are the cause... well then maybe you should've said that.

 

[Brian_1349]

Approximately every third marriage gets disrupted. Fertility rate is dropping. 397,122 children in the US live without permanent families. The notion of family is transforming. So is our attitude to traditional family values. Gays are not the reason, they are the cause. It is not possible for LGBT community to affect our mentality, we are the ones destroying the image and value of traditional family in the US.

People seem to devalue and discard each other too easily today.

People seem to be shallow today. Most of us are looking for looks and financial well-being. According to my notion of traditional family, it is supposed to be loving and caring, and not based on economic cooperation. Money comes and money goes, beauty fades away. It is impossible to build family on physical attraction and wild consumerism.

 

[RKMBrown]

Approximately every third marriage gets disrupted. Fertility rate is dropping. 397,122 children in the US live without permanent families. The notion of family is transforming. So is our attitude to traditional family values. Gays are not the reason, they are the cause. It is not possible for LGBT community to affect our mentality, we are the ones destroying the image and value of traditional family in the US.

First marriage breakups... well there are a lot of changes that might be attributable.
1) Women's lib.. women no longer being home-makers but instead bread winners. That's a big change.

What else is a big change?
2) Welfare... Government being the sugar daddy for families, that no longer need a father around. That's a big change.

3) War on drugs sending baby daddies to jail. That's a big change.

What else?

Internet chat rooms, twitter, more access to "other" people through instant cross country communications. Easier to make hookups. That's a big change.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Combine LBJ's poorly written bureaucratic mess of the "Great Society" with the assault on Christian values based on fake Constitutional law by a former KKK member and widespread left wing political support for killing the unborn and factor in Hollywood pushing the limits of decency for the last half century and you have a witches brew for the decline of society.

Who is to blame for the periods that have gone missing in your grammar? Liberals?

It amazes me that even today some people think the husband should be able to dispose of community property without consent or knowledge of the wife. What the fuck is wrong with you people? "Traditional marriage".

 

[Skylar]

Approximately every third marriage gets disrupted. Fertility rate is dropping. 397,122 children in the US live without permanent families. The notion of family is transforming. So is our attitude to traditional family values. Gays are not the reason, they are the cause. It is not possible for LGBT community to affect our mentality, we are the ones destroying the image and value of traditional family in the US.

I'd say the cause of the drop in marriage rates is four fold;

1) the changing nature of marriage from a financial arrangement to a matter of love

2) The growing priority of short term happiness

3) the growing financial independence of women.

4) The increasing lack of social stigma for declining to marry or having children out of wedlock.

Marriage in the past was largely a financial arrangement. Women didn't have access to most jobs (or in some cases, any jobs). So marriage was effectively their own reliable route to financial security for themselves and their children. Marriage was a dominant subordinate relationship, with women largely relegated to the status of property.

While the explicit status of property for women in our nation has never been explicit, its forms and influences lingered for quite a long time. It wasn't until the last generation or two that men and women were considered co-equals in a marriage.

Marriage for love is also a remarkably new invention. Its barely older the steam engine. For millennia before that marriage was an arrangement between families. Or between a man and a woman (or women, depending on the culture) for the mutual financial benefit of both. With the man providing the external resources and a woman providing the child care and labor to make the house run. Now its largely about romance.

This emphasis on love over practicality leads into reason 2

There's a societal shift to focus on short term happiness. Thus, if someone isn't happy in a marriage they'll often exit it rather than fix the situation within the union. Marriages ebb and flow. There are good years. There are bad. All too often, the moment a bad year or two is reached the marriage ends. Even if the marriage is functioning well in every other regard.

The emphasis of romance only exacerbates this. As long term relationships tend to lack that initial thrill. The affection is deeper and more comfortable. But not quite as exciting and volatile as when the relationship began. Some see this natural progression as a form of failure, having bought into the idea of continual romance as a baseline rather than an accent.

There's also the 'Bigger, Better Deal', or the 'grass is greener' syndrome. When folks are younger, they tend to focus on getting the best quality mate they can. Thus, it makes sense to always try to upgrade. But once you settle on an individual, maintaining the BBD mindset is a recipe for dissatisfaction, adultery and marital collapse. Consumer culture and the marketing of instant gratification has an effect on marriage as well, extending this BBD period beyond courting and into marriage itself.

Most divorces are initiated by women. In the past, most were initiated by men. I think the shift in numbers is the product of the reduction in consequences for a divorce. Women are increasingly independent financially, with virtually every job available to a man available to a woman. They don't necessarily need marriage in order to support themselves and their children. Where in the past where women had little or no access to jobs, divorce for happiness would have been nearly suicidal.

The reduced consequences result in reduced social stigma. Prohibitions against pre-marital sex were much stronger in the past because the consequences were so much stronger. Before the era of reliable birth control, sex almost inevitably lead to pregnancy. And a pregnant woman without the financial support of marriage would typically find a very, very hard road.

While single parenthood isn't a picnic, its not the near certain road to catastrophe it was before. We have far better social support in place. Much better access to jobs for mothers. Alimony. Child support. School lunches. Medicare. WIC. All mitigating the consequences of pregnancy outside of marriage. And reasonably inexpensive, reliable birth control that makes pregnancy outside of marriage far from a certainty.

In response, social stigma has reduced across all these fronts proportionally. And with the reduction in stigma, there's less social disincentive to get get divorced.

 

[danielpalos]

If family is important, then both traditional and non-traditional methods should be tried to better ensure success.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

EXACTLY why does the OP say "gays are the cause"?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Combine LBJ's poorly written bureaucratic mess of the "Great Society" with the assault on Christian values based on fake Constitutional law by a former KKK member and widespread left wing political support for killing the unborn and factor in Hollywood pushing the limits of decency for the last half century and you have a witches brew for the decline of society.

Wading through all that gobbledygook, you seem to be saying everybody is at fault for your failures except for you.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

If family is important, then both traditional and non-traditional methods should be tried to better ensure success.

And as has been repeatedly pointed out (and proven) there is really no such thing as a "traditional" marriage OR family.

I am so sick of this blaming everyone for your troubles. Blacks, gays, women, Hispanics, Jews, yadda yadda - they're to blame for every damn one of society's ills.

If a marriage ends in divorce or if a family is not "traditional" its the fault and responsibility of the adults involved.

 

[danielpalos]

what is your solution?