Could It Ever Be Enough?

[Madeline]

Could Ratzinger aka Pope Benedict XVI ever apologize enough?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/world/europe/19pope.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1284836570-H7H/snXSmFbdWYl7BZfy8Q

 

[JBeukema]

Meh. He's the head of the Universal Roman Church of Pederasty.

What do people expect?

 

[THE LIGHT]

Well, at least he is man enough to appologize for acts commited by Catholics.

Now if only we could get Rauf to do that... ... okay, not holding my breath.

 

[Madeline]

If you or someone you loved had been harmed in the child abuse scandals, would this apology be enough for you to forgive?

Not me.

The Church needs to open all its records. Cooperate totally with law enforcement. Pay restitution to the victims and their families. Defrock all clergy who are guilty. End the practice of canonical trials for crimes forever.

And Ratzinger needs to resign.

If all that happned, I think mebbe I could forgive.

 

[THE LIGHT]

If you or someone you loved had been harmed in the child abuse scandals, would this apology be enough for you to forgive?

Not me.

The Church needs to open all its records. Cooperate totally with law enforcement. Pay restitution to the victims and their families. Defrock all clergy who are guilty. End the practice of canonical trials for crimes forever.

And Ratzinger needs to resign.

If all that happned, I think mebbe I could forgive.

So why should we forgive Muslims but not Catholics?

 

[Old Rocks]

Should there be forgiveness of anybody that does horrible harm in the office or name of their religion?

 

[Madeline]

If you or someone you loved had been harmed in the child abuse scandals, would this apology be enough for you to forgive?

Not me.

The Church needs to open all its records. Cooperate totally with law enforcement. Pay restitution to the victims and their families. Defrock all clergy who are guilty. End the practice of canonical trials for crimes forever.

And Ratzinger needs to resign.

If all that happned, I think mebbe I could forgive.

So why should we forgive Muslims but not Catholics?

The Light, why do Muslims need our forgiveness? Not even "all Catholics" need mine...just those in the clergy who offended.

 

[Madeline]

Should there be forgiveness of anybody that does horrible harm in the office or name of their religion?

Forgiveness helps the forgiving more than anyone else, Old Rocks...but IMO, for Catholics, first there must be some justice.

 

[Foxfyre]

I agree completely that representatives of the Roman Catholic Church did not handle their pedophile problem effectively or efficiently when it finally surfaced. I think it is doing a better job now or at least we aren't hearing much about errant priests these days. The focus is still on offenses of the past.

But we don't know if the current Pope had any part in any of that. I haven't heard that he has ever been accused. And what is he supposed to do other than express his sorrow and his commitment that no such abomination or any other destructive behavior will be tolerated within the Church on his watch?

The problem is not just the RCC either. For years the Episcopalians have dealt with similar errancy among their priesthood and male leaders. After two pedophile incidents in a row at a boys' home/school, only married people were considered to be assigned to that facility. And sure enough, the married chaplain was caught in the act. I was horrified that we was not stripped of his credentials and charged with a felony crime. But no, because he did not actually molest a child, he was reassigned to a post sans kids and put into 'counseling'. All denominations of churches have had moral issues, sometimes highly harmful and damaging, among their clergy and lay leadership.

The Boy Scouts have had their problems too, as has the YMCA, and all organizations where large numbers of young people congregate. Both boys and girls are at risk and screening continues to be inadequate to weed out all the pedophiles. Pedophiles are drawn to such organizations like flies, and many intentionally go into vocations or volunteer for positions in which they will have 'opportunity'.

I don't know what the answer is other than to continue to do rigorous screening and improve methods to ferret out the problems. Meanwhile there are thousands and thousands of decent, honorable, priests, clergy, and lay persons who would defend a child to the death and who would never harm one. And it is important that these people not be tarnished with the same brush.

But I don't know what the Pope can do other than to express his sincere regret that the problem has existed and do what he can to insure that it will not continue.

 

[Madeline]

Ratzinger is involved, foxfyre.

Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' | News

 

[Big Black Dog]

The actions of the members of the Catholic Clergy who dishonored their church and God by the events which occurred with the young people of that congregation will be remembered for ages. It's not something that saying "I'm sorry" is going to resolve. Time and a rebuilding of trust is required for the healing process to get over these events. In the interim, nothing can be said or done to make this situation better. It isn't going to go away over night. There will always be reminders and every time there is a new episode of this tragic behavior, the wound will reopen and it will start all over again. While the Catholic church appears to be the biggest offender, you must realize that they are not the only offenders. There have been other church groups that have had the same sort of behavior from time to time. It's a shame.

 

[Foxfyre]

Ratzinger is involved, foxfyre.

Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' | News

Hmmm, interesting. I had not seen that article and it certainly isn't being carried, at least with that focus, here in the States. I did find this 2006 article suggesting that this is not the first time the BBC has attempted to 'expose' the Pope:

Church leader accuses BBC of bias against Catholic church
By STEVE DOUGHTY
Last updated at 09:47 03 October 2006

Panorama has accused Pope Benedict of a systematic cover-up of child abuse by priests over a 20 year period

Relations between the Roman Catholic Church and the BBC have plunged to a historic low in the wake of the row over Panorama and the Pope.

The leader of Catholics in England and Wales accused the Corporation of 'persistent bias' and questioned its objectivity.

Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor also described the BBC 1 documentary that said Pope Benedict had covered up child abuse as 'malicious and untrue and based on a false presentation of Church documents.'

The strength of the language used by the Cardinal marks a new depth of hostility after three years of deteriorating trust between the Catholic Church and the BBC. The Panorama documentary broadcast on Sunday evening accused Pope Benedict of playing a direct role in organising a systematic cover-up of child abuse by priests. It linked the Pope to the enforcement over a 20-year period of Vatican rules drawn up in 1962 which appeared to instruct bishops to keep incidents secret and block outside investigations.

One senior Catholic, Archbishop of Birmingham Vincent Nichols, has already responded to the programme by accusing the BBC of 'deep prejudice' and adding that 'viewers will recognise only too well the sensational tactircs and misleading editing.'
Yesterday Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor, head of the Church in England and Wales, said in a letter to BBC Director General Mark Thompson that there was 'enormous distress and alarm' among Catholics.

The Cardinal said child abuse by priests was shameful and acknowledge the legitimacy of reporting 'this evil'.

But he continued: 'Your programme sets out to inflict grave damage on Pope Benedict, the leader of a billion Catholics throughout the world. 'I cannot understand why no-one from your Corporation made any attempt to contact the Catholic Church in this country for assistance in seeking accurate information about this matter.

'I must ask if within the BBC there is a persistent bias against the Catholic Church. There will be many, not only Catholics, who will wonder if the BBC is any longer willing to be truly objective in some of its presentations.'

The Cardinal added: 'What a pity if the respect in which the BBC is held worldwide were to be seriously undermined by the bias and lack of integrity shown in the decision to broadcast a programme such as this.'

The criticism yesterday appeared to mark the culmination of years of deep frustration among senior Catholics at the BBC's enthusiasm for attacking their Church.

In 2003 Church leaders made a series of strong criticisms of the BBC after months of news broadcasts in which reporters had tried to link Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor to incidents in which abuse allegations had been covered up.

Read more: Church leader accuses BBC of bias against Catholic church | Mail Online

So......since prior exposes apparently didn't trigger sufficient evidence to condemn or remove the Pope or distance him from the Cardinals and Bishops in 2006, I don't know what to make of this current one.

In short, I don't know. I do tend to take these things with a grain of salt until there is more evidence than a possibly disgruntled person. But I don't have a clue how all this might shake out.

 

[THE LIGHT]

If you or someone you loved had been harmed in the child abuse scandals, would this apology be enough for you to forgive?

Not me.

The Church needs to open all its records. Cooperate totally with law enforcement. Pay restitution to the victims and their families. Defrock all clergy who are guilty. End the practice of canonical trials for crimes forever.

And Ratzinger needs to resign.

If all that happned, I think mebbe I could forgive.

So why should we forgive Muslims but not Catholics?

The Light, why do Muslims need our forgiveness? Not even "all Catholics" need mine...just those in the clergy who offended.

I'm not up on the whole pope case myself as it only pertains to Catholics that I know of and my opinion of the Catholic church isn't too high anyway.

But I guess the question would be, did the pope himself commit those horrible acts?

 

[Foxfyre]

Oh, and as a disclaimer, I am not and have never been a Roman Catholic, I do not believe the Pope to be descended from Peter any more than any other clergy can claim such descent, I do not accept the infallibility of the Pope, and being a student and teacher of church history, I am more than aware of the sins and excesses evident in Church for its entire history. (I am not and have never been an Episcopalian or Anglican either. )

 

[THE LIGHT]

Oh, and as a disclaimer, I am not and have never been a Roman Catholic, I do not believe the Pope to be descended from Peter any more than any other clergy can claim such descent, I do not accept the infallibility of the Pope, and being a student and teacher of church history, I am more than aware of the sins and excesses evident in Church for its entire history. (I am not and have never been an Episcopalian or Anglican either. )

The pope isn't infallible?

Don't you know he could have your head cut off for saying such remarks?

 

[Foxfyre]

Oh, and as a disclaimer, I am not and have never been a Roman Catholic, I do not believe the Pope to be descended from Peter any more than any other clergy can claim such descent, I do not accept the infallibility of the Pope, and being a student and teacher of church history, I am more than aware of the sins and excesses evident in Church for its entire history. (I am not and have never been an Episcopalian or Anglican either. )

The pope isn't infallible?

Don't you know he could have your head cut off for saying such remarks?

LOL. No, that was just during the Inquisition, and I'm pretty sure the RCC gave all that up.

 

[Madeline]

So why should we forgive Muslims but not Catholics?

The Light, why do Muslims need our forgiveness? Not even "all Catholics" need mine...just those in the clergy who offended.

I'm not up on the whole pope case myself as it only pertains to Catholics that I know of and my opinion of the Catholic church isn't too high anyway.

But I guess the question would be, did the pope himself commit those horrible acts?

No, The Light. He is accused (fairly damningly) of facilitating others who did.

 

[THE LIGHT]

The Light, why do Muslims need our forgiveness? Not even "all Catholics" need mine...just those in the clergy who offended.

I'm not up on the whole pope case myself as it only pertains to Catholics that I know of and my opinion of the Catholic church isn't too high anyway.

But I guess the question would be, did the pope himself commit those horrible acts?

No, The Light. He is accused (fairly damningly) of facilitating others who did.

Well, if he did such acts he should be punished for them. And all those who view those acts as acceptable I see as being no different than him just as those who do not condemn Hamas are just the same as the terrorist organization itself.

 

[Madeline]

I'm not sure the two are comparable, The Light. There is no Chief Muslim In Charge. Doubtless various Muslim religious leaders have condemned terrorism; in the case of the current pope, he's (alleged to be) a direct participant in conspiracies to abuse children in the care of the RCC.

Do you agree he should resign?

 

[uscitizen]

If you or someone you loved had been harmed in the child abuse scandals, would this apology be enough for you to forgive?

Not me.

The Church needs to open all its records. Cooperate totally with law enforcement. Pay restitution to the victims and their families. Defrock all clergy who are guilty. End the practice of canonical trials for crimes forever.

And Ratzinger needs to resign.

If all that happned, I think mebbe I could forgive.

Yeah it is almost as if the crime is not as bad if a priest or other person of god does it.
To me it is twice as bad if a religious leaders does it.

entertainer exemptions I suppose.