Corporations and taxes

[Mini 14]

I gathered

 

[Jon]

Yes, you are correct, but I didn't want her head to explode

Oh, that's where we differ.

 

[sangha]

sangha,
You don't own a business, do you?

No, I don't own a business

I own 5 businesses. All of them profitable

The law that went into effect last year requires the employer to pay 65% of the terminated employees premium, for 18 months, the employee then has the option to extend COBRA another 6 months (for a total of 24 months) but the last 6 months the employee must cover 100% of the premium. The employer is able then to deduct that amount (the 65%) from his tax return. Small business operate to break even, so a tax deduction almost never is justified by the expense up front (the 65% of the premium, each month, for up to 18 months).

You are being very dishonest. This is just a temporary measure that was passed in reaction to the economic crisis to help the unemployed. It is NOT COBRA.

And you don't read well. Small businesses won't offer coverage (because they simply won't be able to afford it), and the potential employee (the person APPLYING FOR A JOB) will have to prove that he already has coverage before he will be considered for employment.

Wrong. COBRA doesn't cost employers. Providing coverage to their employees cost them, but COBRA does not.

If you had read either the new COBRA legislation, or the new healthcare bill, you would realize that what I've stated here is simply the truth.

You have mistated the impacts. COBRA doesn't cost employees. Coverage costs them, and this new extension costs them, but the new extension isn't COBRA; it's an entirely seperate piece of legislation

Congress approves COBRA subsidy extension, ?lifeline? to unemployed | Insurance & Financial Advisor I IFAwebnews.com

After a long week of debate, President Barack Obama signed an $18 billion bill temporarily extending unemployment and health benefits to millions of Americans, including those receiving coverage through the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA).

Oh, and the added expense to employers for the employees they terminate from now on = $0.00 because the extension has already expired

Through the bill, a 65% subsidy of COBRA benefits for those who have lost their jobs is extended through May 31.

Under our new healthcare plan, employers will have the right (and eventually the requirement) to verify compliance with the healthcare regulations by obtaining proof of coverage before hiring any new employee.

So what? What does have to do with whether or not small businesses are being hurt by COBRA?

Seriously! A oister went on about how COBRA was going to force small employers to drop coverage, and it turns out, the problem you're talking about is an extension that has already expired. I think you're just grasping for something to be right about, regardless of the relevance (or lack thereof) to what we're debating

 

[Jon]

No, I don't own a business

I own 5 businesses. All of them profitable

I'm Donald Trump.

See? I can make shit up too.

 

[sangha]

I can make shit up

We already knew that

 

[Jon]

What's funny, sangha, is that you didn't read your own link, or the follow-ups. They are talking of extending the COBRA extension.

Furthermore, that you state the new extension is not COBRA makes me question your literacy. It clearly IS an extension of a program that forces employers to cover 65% of employees' COBRA premiums. If it's not COBRA, please tell me what in the hell it is.

 

[sangha]

What's funny, sangha, is that you didn't read your own link, or the follow-ups. They are talking of extending the COBRA extension.[/uote]

Even funnier is how you think talking about extending it, and the NOT actually extending it is a problem when the extension has already EXPIRED

Furthermore, that you state the new extension is not COBRA makes me question your literacy. It clearly IS an extension of a program that forces employers to cover 65% of employees' COBRA premiums. If it's not COBRA, please tell me what in the hell it is.

Wrong. COBRA never required employers to cover the 65%. That was the extension. Which has EXPIRED

You are talking about a law which is NO LONGER IN EFFECT. You do know what that means, right?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Less taxes = more profit.

But the consumer pays the tax. So how does less tax = more profit? Just = lower price for consumer.

When the price goes up, demand drops.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

If corporations always pass their taxes off on the consumer, then why do corporations spend so much effort lobbying to keep their taxes low? What difference does it make to them, they aren't paying it, they make you and I pay for it, so what do they care?

Because it's just a superficially attractive line that corporate shills use to try to fool people.

The other question is, if you don't want corporations to pay taxes, who DO you want to tax to raise that revenue?

Your question is a false dichotemy because you assume all that revenue needs to be raised in the first place and therefore either the corporations paying the taxes or other entities paying the taxes are the only choices.

 

[Jon]

What's funny, sangha, is that you didn't read your own link, or the follow-ups. They are talking of extending the COBRA extension.

Even funnier is how you think talking about extending it, and the NOT actually extending it is a problem when the extension has already EXPIRED

Yes, but the discussion to continue the extension has not met closure.

Wrong. COBRA never required employers to cover the 65%. That was the extension. Which has EXPIRED

What has expired is the date of termination to which the extension applies. Employees terminated between September 1, 2008 and May 31, 2010 are eligible for the extended coverage. Those terminated between September 1, 2008 and February 28, 2010 are still eligible for the premium reduction. People who were terminated during that time who originally declined coverage may be eligible to refile for coverage and receive the benefit of both the extension and the premium reduction.

The point is: there are still costs for businesses now and into the future. I would think someone who owns 5 businesses would know that.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

sangha,
You don't own a business, do you?

No, I don't own a business

I own 5 businesses. All of them profitable

Now who is the liar?

 

[Care4all]

Corporations are taxed on their profits. That's an income tax, essentially. Why would they be entitled to tax free income, when you and I aren't?

Well, for one, when they pass their profits on to their investors and employees, those people are taxed again. Double taxation is epic failure.

their shareholders go tax free until they sell the stock.

avg EFFECTIVE corporate income tax rate is between 6-8% in the usa...one of the lowest effective corporate income tax in the world....most very big corps such as exxon/mobile pay NOTHING/ZERO/NADA in income tax....

the 10% to 15% on capital gains or dividends when holders decide to sell it is NOTHING, when you consider they can go years growing their investment without paying any taxes....added to the very low, if at all, income tax the corporation pays still is a very good deal and not double taxation in my opinion.

 

[sangha]

sangha,
You don't own a business, do you?

No, I don't own a business

I own 5 businesses. All of them profitable

Now who is the liar?

The guy who thinks an expired extension is still costing employers. That would be Jon

 

[editec]

If corporations always pass their taxes off on the consumer, then why do corporations spend so much effort lobbying to keep their taxes low? What difference does it make to them, they aren't paying it, they make you and I pay for it, so what do they care?

They do it to protect their customers, naturally.

They're that kind of super nice people, ya' know.

They're not in business to make money, just friends.

We're in good hands, and solid as a rock, because they bring good things to life.

 

[Mini 14]

Sweet Fancy Moses.....what have I gotten myself into?!?

A person who owns 5 businesses but doesn't understand variable cost?

I want to live in your world!

Regardless of whatever you believe, guess what my COBRA obligation (a variable cost) is now, compared to what it was a year ago:

0%



And Obama made that decision for me. I simply couldn't afford what he wanted me to do, so I dropped the coverage and offer allowances to those who qualify. As soon as the government option comes into play, the allowances will stop. If the Federal Government wants to insure my employees, they're welcome to. I'll find something to do with the money I'll be saving, like more silver, ammo, port, or scones.

 

[sangha]

Sweet Fancy Moses.....what have I gotten myself into?!?

A person who owns 5 businesses but doesn't understand variable cost?

I want to live in your world!

Regardless of whatever you believe, guess what my COBRA obligation (a variable cost) is now, compared to what it was a year ago:

0%

It's zero because COBRA doesn't cost the employer anything. Thanks for proving me right.

Now explain how a 0% rise in COBRA-related costs is causing you eliminate coverage

And Obama made that decision for me. I simply couldn't afford what he wanted me to do, so I dropped the coverage and offer allowances to those who qualify.

So the 0% rise in COBRA costs caused you to drop coverage?

As soon as the government option comes into play, the allowances will stop.

Then you will have to pay the fine.

And I'm still waiting for you to explain how a law that has expired is increasing your costs

 

[Mini 14]

No fine for me.

Not big enough now, and I'm splitting into smaller companies anyway.

YOU will be paying for my employees' coverage.....the same amount as I will.

And we ALL thank you!

PS....a year ago my COBRA liability was 65% of the premium. That's why I dropped coverage.

READING is FUNdamental!

 

[Jon]

No, I don't own a business

I own 5 businesses. All of them profitable

Now who is the liar?

The guy who thinks an expired extension is still costing employers. That would be Jon

I don't understand what you don't get. If an employee was terminated before February 28, 2010, they qualify for both the extension AND THE REDUCED PREMIUM. The "expiration" was on the date at which terminations to qualify occurred, not the expiration of the benefit payments. Are you really this daft? I say yes.

 

[sangha]

No fine for me.

Not big enough now, and I'm splitting into smaller companies anyway.

YOU will be paying for my employees' coverage.....the same amount as I will.

And we ALL thank you!

PS....a year ago my COBRA liability was 65% of the premium. That's why I dropped coverage.

READING is FUNdamental!

The law expired, so why will employers continue to drop coverage as you falsely claimed earlier?

 

[Jon]

And I'm still waiting for you to explain how a law that has expired is increasing your costs

The law didn't expire. The deadline to qualify for the benefit did. A person can still file a retroactive claim for COBRA and receive the benefit.