Copyright Alert System

[Circe]

bit-torrent is no different than lending or giving a book you own to a friend.

Well, giving it to 9,356 of your closest friends, anyway......................

That is an absurd claim, if you will excuse me for saying so, but I want to point out something I've realized because I'm a big consumer of electronic books, streaming video, etc. --

They are changing the paradigm from books-as-objects (and video cassettes, same deal) to one consumer, one content. You can't share Amazon ebooks with friends. Everyone has to buy their own piece of content.

Huge paradigm shift getting away from Gutenberg's moveable type, and they are taking this once-in-500-year chance to up the buyer cost. No book lending. No giving away your used books.

On the other hand, a lot of classics and new amateur stuff is free or very cheap, so there is some good trade-off.

We are in such a revolution. Wow. Change is exploding all around us.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

so what happens when i bought the album, and then i bought the 8 track and then the cassette and then the dvd. now everything is digital. I'm supposed to pay for again what i already bought 4 times?

Thats what they want.

Yes it is.
Ringel05 a good year ago or so had a thread on "electronic purchases" like these, but was speaking primarily about video games.
Anyway - he presented a good argument stating basically that when purchasing most electronic media anymore - you don't really own it. They sold you limited access to the media, it is not presented that way - but in fact - you do not own it. You have the right to access the electronic version of it.
Take for instance when you buy a movie from Amazon. You can watch the video as many times as you want, on any computer you want as long as you login. HOWEVER - you cannot download the media. And if you cancel your Prime membership - you can't even get to the media you bought anymore.
And then there is also the situation in which you buy a DVD of a movie...do you own the movie - or the disc that the movie is on? I can tell you - you do not own the movie, just the disc it is on. So when the day soon comes where DVD's are past tense - sucks to be you.

 

[KissMy]

so what happens when i bought the album, and then i bought the 8 track and then the cassette and then the dvd. now everything is digital. I'm supposed to pay for again what i already bought 4 times?

Thats what they want.

Yes it is.
Ringel05 a good year ago or so had a thread on "electronic purchases" like these, but was speaking primarily about video games.
Anyway - he presented a good argument stating basically that when purchasing most electronic media anymore - you don't really own it. They sold you limited access to the media, it is not presented that way - but in fact - you do not own it. You have the right to access the electronic version of it.
Take for instance when you buy a movie from Amazon. You can watch the video as many times as you want, on any computer you want as long as you login. HOWEVER - you cannot download the media. And if you cancel your Prime membership - you can't even get to the media you bought anymore.
And then there is also the situation in which you buy a DVD of a movie...do you own the movie - or the disc that the movie is on? I can tell you - you do not own the movie, just the disc it is on. So when the day soon comes where DVD's are past tense - sucks to be you.

Maybe they can put those terms on their media they sell going foreword, but the records, books & movies I bought years ago did not say that I don't own them & can't let my friends read, watch, listen to mine or barrow or buy them from me.

 

[Circe]

Maybe they can put those terms on their media they sell going foreword, but the records, books & movies I bought years ago did not say that I don't own them & can't let my friends read, watch, listen to mine or barrow or buy them from me.

Sure. That's books-as-objects.

But now --- all your Amazon ebooks are in the Cloud. All the movies you watch streaming from The Source onto your TV are in the Cloud. No one owns the Cloud; they just pay for getting to read or watch the content for awhile.

It's brilliant, actually, and this huge switch to digital content going on now is the very moment to switch everyone out of the idea of owning content they can distribute themselves.

 

[Spoonman]

so what happens when i bought the album, and then i bought the 8 track and then the cassette and then the dvd. now everything is digital. I'm supposed to pay for again what i already bought 4 times?

Thats what they want.

Yes it is.
Ringel05 a good year ago or so had a thread on "electronic purchases" like these, but was speaking primarily about video games.
Anyway - he presented a good argument stating basically that when purchasing most electronic media anymore - you don't really own it. They sold you limited access to the media, it is not presented that way - but in fact - you do not own it. You have the right to access the electronic version of it.
Take for instance when you buy a movie from Amazon. You can watch the video as many times as you want, on any computer you want as long as you login. HOWEVER - you cannot download the media. And if you cancel your Prime membership - you can't even get to the media you bought anymore.
And then there is also the situation in which you buy a DVD of a movie...do you own the movie - or the disc that the movie is on? I can tell you - you do not own the movie, just the disc it is on. So when the day soon comes where DVD's are past tense - sucks to be you.

exactly, which is why i'm taking my digital copies for fre now.

 

[Polk]

Well, it's not a "regular Internet user" if he's going to BitTorrent, right? That's criminal activity.

Thanx for explaining it. I read the article on this in the Wall Street Journal, and it was completely incomprehensible: I don't think they WANTED readers to understand what was going on!

Well, it's a decidedly weird system, but I guess they have to fight back against copyright infringement some way or another. People copying Hollywood movies and selling them to China --- what's to defend, you know?

I guess I think people should play fair.

How is BitTorrent illegal?

It's not, but judges and legislators don't really under technology.

 

[Polk]

Well, it's not a "regular Internet user" if he's going to BitTorrent, right? That's criminal activity.

Thanx for explaining it. I read the article on this in the Wall Street Journal, and it was completely incomprehensible: I don't think they WANTED readers to understand what was going on!

Well, it's a decidedly weird system, but I guess they have to fight back against copyright infringement some way or another. People copying Hollywood movies and selling them to China --- what's to defend, you know?

I guess I think people should play fair.

How is BitTorrent illegal?

It's not.

Hollywood wants to punish everyone that uses it, because of "suspected piracy".
In otherwords, you can legally fileshare your own LEGAL files and still get penalized, because in their eyes, you are pirating.


TL;DR Hollywood wants you to cough up more dough; fuck consumer rights.

What do you mean by "your own LEGAL files"?

 

[Polk]

Nitroz is 100% right.
People pirate for reasons other than stealing...same goes for me.
Let's take "The Walking Dead"...I am forgetful as hell, and can't seem to remember to DVR it (yes I know I can program the series)
And I do not want to watch it live because I don't want to see the damn 20 minutes of commercials.
Sooo...I go to Pirate Bay and download the torrent...takes about 3-4 minutes and they are already commercial free.
So..I in fact pay for the show via cable..so how is it stealing?

Because the producer has the distribution right. The person uploading the copy in the first place is violating that right.

 

[Polk]

so what happens when i bought the album, and then i bought the 8 track and then the cassette and then the dvd. now everything is digital. I'm supposed to pay for again what i already bought 4 times?

Yes, since your property rights are in the particular copy, not in the work.

 

[Spoonman]

so what happens when i bought the album, and then i bought the 8 track and then the cassette and then the dvd. now everything is digital. I'm supposed to pay for again what i already bought 4 times?

Yes, since your property rights are in the particular copy, not in the work.

in that case, fuckem. i'll keep using filesharing

 

[KissMy]

If the movie, music or book companies think I broke any laws, they have to take me to court. They can't have my ISP infringe on my internet connection that I pay for. The issue is between the media company & I, not a un-involved third party.

 

[Polk]

so what happens when i bought the album, and then i bought the 8 track and then the cassette and then the dvd. now everything is digital. I'm supposed to pay for again what i already bought 4 times?

Yes, since your property rights are in the particular copy, not in the work.

in that case, fuckem. i'll keep using filesharing

You could always make a digital copy of the existing version you've already purchased.

 

[Polk]

If the movie, music or book companies think I broke any laws, they have to take me to court. They can't have my ISP infringe on my internet connection that I pay for. The issue is between the media company & I, not a un-involved third party.

That connection contract is subject to terms of service.

 

[Spoonman]

Yes, since your property rights are in the particular copy, not in the work.

in that case, fuckem. i'll keep using filesharing

You could always make a digital copy of the existing version you've already purchased.

and buy the equipment to do it? it's easier to just pull it off the internet

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Maybe they can put those terms on their media they sell going foreword, but the records, books & movies I bought years ago did not say that I don't own them & can't let my friends read, watch, listen to mine or barrow or buy them from me.

Sure. That's books-as-objects.

But now --- all your Amazon ebooks are in the Cloud. All the movies you watch streaming from The Source onto your TV are in the Cloud. No one owns the Cloud; they just pay for getting to read or watch the content for awhile.

It's brilliant, actually, and this huge switch to digital content going on now is the very moment to switch everyone out of the idea of owning content they can distribute themselves.

Brilliant?...maybe. But today it is very convoluted and inefficient as can be.
Steve Jobs was super successful with iTunes based on one premise of thought "people would rather pay for something than steal it, if people are stealing from you, it is your fault. They steal from you because you are not giving them what they want IN THE WAY THEY WANT IT.

Today's media has made the transfer of ownership a gray area. On one hand the entertainment industry wants to you to pay to see a movie at a theater, then pay them to buy a DVD, then pay again in the form of your cable bill for it to be aired on HBO etc.
PEOPLE NO LONGER accept this. I don't. In my example above, I already pay the entertainment industry money for Netflix, Amazon Prime, cable TV and the occasional movie at the theater. That is four different ways THEY have the opportunity to provide me content. But they don't. Through netflix they only want to provide a host of "B" movies and not-so-popular older movies. If a movie is popular they want you to pay in a FIFTH way for it - screw that. And torrents provide the means to get any movie you want.
I would be more than happy to pay for torrents. And in a way Amazon Prime does that - but they want you to pay $80 a year plus $3.00 each for the more popular movies. That is bullshit.

 

[Polk]

in that case, fuckem. i'll keep using filesharing

You could always make a digital copy of the existing version you've already purchased.

and buy the equipment to do it? it's easier to just pull it off the internet

If you have the program on DVD, it's literally downloading a single (legal) program. It's not that hard.

 

[Spoonman]

You could always make a digital copy of the existing version you've already purchased.

and buy the equipment to do it? it's easier to just pull it off the internet

If you have the program on DVD, it's literally downloading a single (legal) program. It's not that hard.

yea but if i have it on record, 8 track or cassette it is. bottom line, the end result is the same. if i can do one, i can do the other

 

[iamwhatiseem]

My perspective and experience:
I began purchasing music in the mid-late 1970's. In those days you had three choices, you bought a single 45 or the entire album on a vinyl LP or 8 track. I did all three, but more albums than singles and I didn't really have that many 8 tracks - maybe 10 or so.
In the 1980's along came cassette players. A number of my favorite albums I purchased a 2nd time to get into the cassette format.
In the 1990's along came CD's...and...I actually did buy some albums a 3rd time
In the 2000's along came mp3's and compact music players...sooo...I really am not enthused to pay a 4th time for the same music.
But then came this awesome website called Napster - a thing of beauty. I downloaded every album I ever purchased - and just like Steve Jobs said - yes, I also downloaded plenty of music I didn't pay for...but that was because at the time there was no way to pay for it. The music industry was fighting tooth and nail to stop digitized media.
Today - I have Amazon Prime. On the Amazon cloud I have about 150 songs that I originally downloaded from Napster several years ago - but since Amazon offers new music at a reasonable price - rather than steal it from torrents which I could certainly do - I BUY them from Amazon. I just looked - I have bought 81 songs from them.

Case closed.
The Movie industry needs to adjust to what we want - not the other way around.

 

[Spoonman]

Maybe they can put those terms on their media they sell going foreword, but the records, books & movies I bought years ago did not say that I don't own them & can't let my friends read, watch, listen to mine or barrow or buy them from me.

Sure. That's books-as-objects.

But now --- all your Amazon ebooks are in the Cloud. All the movies you watch streaming from The Source onto your TV are in the Cloud. No one owns the Cloud; they just pay for getting to read or watch the content for awhile.

It's brilliant, actually, and this huge switch to digital content going on now is the very moment to switch everyone out of the idea of owning content they can distribute themselves.

Brilliant?...maybe. But today it is very convoluted and inefficient as can be.
Steve Jobs was super successful with iTunes based on one premise of thought "people would rather pay for something than steal it, if people are stealing from you, it is your fault. They steal from you because you are not giving them what they want IN THE WAY THEY WANT IT.

Today's media has made the transfer of ownership a gray area. On one hand the entertainment industry wants to you to pay to see a movie at a theater, then pay them to buy a DVD, then pay again in the form of your cable bill for it to be aired on HBO etc.
PEOPLE NO LONGER accept this. I don't. In my example above, I already pay the entertainment industry money for Netflix, Amazon Prime, cable TV and the occasional movie at the theater. That is four different ways THEY have the opportunity to provide me content. But they don't. Through netflix they only want to provide a host of "B" movies and not-so-popular older movies. If a movie is popular they want you to pay in a FIFTH way for it - screw that. And torrents provide the means to get any movie you want.
I would be more than happy to pay for torrents. And in a way Amazon Prime does that - but they want you to pay $80 a year plus $3.00 each for the more popular movies. That is bullshit.

yea, i aggree. i'm not paying for stuff multiple times over just because they decide to repackage it or remarket it. technology is changing so fast now too.

i wonder if video stores who rent movies have to kick back a percentage of their rental fees

 

[Circe]

Today's media has made the transfer of ownership a gray area. On one hand the entertainment industry wants to you to pay to see a movie at a theater, then pay them to buy a DVD, then pay again in the form of your cable bill for it to be aired on HBO etc.
PEOPLE NO LONGER accept this. I don't. In my example above, I already pay the entertainment industry money for Netflix, Amazon Prime, cable TV and the occasional movie at the theater. That is four different ways THEY have the opportunity to provide me content. But they don't. Through netflix they only want to provide a host of "B" movies and not-so-popular older movies. If a movie is popular they want you to pay in a FIFTH way for it - screw that. And torrents provide the means to get any movie you want.
I would be more than happy to pay for torrents. And in a way Amazon Prime does that - but they want you to pay $80 a year plus $3.00 each for the more popular movies. That is bullshit.

I can't understand you here. I have Amazon Prime and a five-movie Netflix subscription. I see almost ALL my movies those two ways, including the A movies. Both services have the best movies -- I don't know why you say they only have B movies.

You may be talking about speed of access. It is true that we wait a few months to get the No. 1 movies, the new stuff, but I don't care. I'd rather see them at home and I don't want to pay a premium to see them early.

I think you are jumping over to BitTorrent not simply to get content, but to get it as soon as it comes out. Am I right?