Confederate Flag vs. Ground Zero Mosque?

[Sallow]

pitty thats not exactly the truth, but if that's the fairy tale you want to live in so be it.

No..that's exactly the way it happened.

I personally think it should be changed to "The War of Southern Treachery."

I take it you've done independent studies on the 19th century American People? Also aren't you one of those people who claim the founding fathers were liberals?

What does that have to do with anything?

The south rose against the Union, formed their own government and attacked the North. A clear violation of the Constitution, clearly treacherous and treasonous. The North was far to nice to the south. Every southern general should have been hung. Jefferson Davis should have stood trial for treason and been shot. The fields of the south should have been salted, the cities leveled and flying the southern colors should have resulted in a death penalty.

The punishment to the South didn't make the message clear enough.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

There was actual talk of them doing that. But Lincoln, thru Grant made the conscious decision to NOT treat the Rebel leaders as traitors in order to heal the country faster. They were traitors...and got off lucky.

again the reconstruction period there was no healing.

If the north had any legal standing to hang anyone they would have done it.

President Andrew Johnson even stated that if given the chance he would hang Davis. Jefferson Davis asked for a trail but never was granted one. Especially after the death of lincoln do not even suggest the healing of a nation prevented the leaders of the south from being hung.

Reconstruction was post-Lincoln. I seriously doubt it would have been so vindictive if he had lived for two reasons....1) he had the juice to control the Radical Republicans, and 2) there would have been no Southern Assassination plot to crush the South over.

Your words

But Lincoln, thru Grant made the conscious decision to NOT treat the Rebel leaders as traitors in order to heal the country faster. They were traitors

What happen to the wishes of Lincoln thru Grant?
Again if that were true then they would have hung the Confederate government leadership. If they were wanting to heal the nation reconsturction would not have been so destructive. The Federal Government did not have the authority to hang anyone.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Confederate Battle flag was not identified as a symbol of racism until after the centennial anniversary of the American civil war. Shortly after that the klan started using it as their symbol. Up until then the klan would carry they U.S. Flag and the Christian flag.

The Confederate Battle flag is the flag of a defeated foreign nation which declared war against the United States of America.

It should not be flown outside on state property in an equal status as the US Flag and the State Flag.

The flag of East Germany is not flown with the German Flag in former East German cities, is it?

I have no problem with it being displayed in some manner, like in a museum or statehouse rotunda, as it is a historical item. But it should not be flown in a public setting.

And just for the record, I do not feel that the Confederate flag is racist on its own, unless it is used by a racist to signify their racist agenda (i.e. KKK)

The Confederate Battle flag is the flag of a defeated foreign nation which declared war against the United States of America.

Wrong the battle flag was just that a battle flag. These are the flags authorized to fly over government proprety
First national flag with 7 stars (4 Mar 1861 – 21 May 1861)

First national flag with 9 stars (21 May 1861 – 2 Jul 1861)

First national flag with 11 stars (2 Jul 1861 – 28 Nov 1861)

First national flag with 13 stars (28 Nov 1861 – 26 May 1863[5])

Second national flag (26 May 1863 – 4 Mar 1865[

Second national flag

Third National flag ("The Blood Stained Banner")

This is the Confederate battle flag which had nothing to do with the government

This flag also had the same meaning

or even this flag

It should not be flown outside on state property in an equal status as the US Flag and the State Flag.

Thats a state issue and the peope that live in the state should decide

I have no problem with it being displayed in some manner, like in a museum or statehouse rotunda, as it is a historical item. But it should not be flown in a public setting.

Thanks for allowing us poor chilt'ns to have your approval to fly the battle flag from time to time

And just for the record, I do not feel that the Confederate flag is racist on its own, unless it is used by a racist to signify their racist agenda

How about the stars and stripes?

 

[xotoxi]

It should not be flown outside on state property in an equal status as the US Flag and the State Flag.

Thats a state issue and the peope that live in the state should decide

That's fine. I was just voicing my opinion. My opinion is non-binding.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

No..that's exactly the way it happened.

I personally think it should be changed to "The War of Southern Treachery."

I take it you've done independent studies on the 19th century American People? Also aren't you one of those people who claim the founding fathers were liberals?

What does that have to do with anything?

The south rose against the Union, formed their own government and attacked the North. A clear violation of the Constitution, clearly treacherous and treasonous. The North was far to nice to the south. Every southern general should have been hung. Jefferson Davis should have stood trial for treason and been shot. The fields of the south should have been salted, the cities leveled and flying the southern colors should have resulted in a death penalty.

The punishment to the South didn't make the message clear enough.

Thanks for proving you haven't complete any individual studies.

I take it you've done independent studies on the 19th century American People?

Thats the point.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It should not be flown outside on state property in an equal status as the US Flag and the State Flag.

Thats a state issue and the peope that live in the state should decide

That's fine. I was just voicing my opinion. My opinion is non-binding.

Thanks for sharing your opinion

 

[Bones]

Sshhh...we're supposed to believe the only violent Muslim in the whole world is bin Laden.

Sad isn't it?

And scary.

Who knows what it is about liberals that makes them feel compelled to befriend and protect scmbags, liars, woman beaters, and butchers. I assume it's because they want America brought low, and those are the only sort of people they can find to help them do it.

There are scumbags, liars, woman beaters and butchers who are Christian too, sweetheart. Don't delude yourself.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I've heard people decry the Confederate flag flying on statehouse grounds in SC, saying that it is insensitive.

I've also heard people decry the would be Ground Zero mosque, also saying it is insensitive.

Not surprisingly, there is very little overlap among the two groups doing the decrying.


What I'd like to have explained, by anyone taking any side, is why one is indeed insensitive while the other is not.


note: Thread inspired by Ravi's self-pwnage in another thread.

I find both to be insensitive for different reasons.

The rebel flag due to its historical imagry as the symbol of states that wanted slavery
The Ground Zero mosque due to the historical implications of its name and its proximity to "sacred ground".

However, I do recognize that both people who want to fly that flag and the ground zero mosque have the right to fly the flag and build the mosque under the first ammendment.

I find both to be insensitive for different reasons.
The rebel flag due to its historical imagry as the symbol of states that wanted slavery

It's how people are educated. People view the Battle flag from the 1960's and the klan. of course if that all I knew about it I would feel the same way.

 

[Sallow]

I take it you've done independent studies on the 19th century American People? Also aren't you one of those people who claim the founding fathers were liberals?

What does that have to do with anything?

The south rose against the Union, formed their own government and attacked the North. A clear violation of the Constitution, clearly treacherous and treasonous. The North was far to nice to the south. Every southern general should have been hung. Jefferson Davis should have stood trial for treason and been shot. The fields of the south should have been salted, the cities leveled and flying the southern colors should have resulted in a death penalty.

The punishment to the South didn't make the message clear enough.

Thanks for proving you haven't complete any individual studies.

I take it you've done independent studies on the 19th century American People?

Thats the point.

The "point" isn't what you deem it to be.

My point is that the United States screwed up after the civil war. Punishments were not harsh enough. How do we know this? The south still talks about secession and flys southern colors.

Jefferson Davis should have had a status worse then Benedict Arnold. Stories should have been made up about how he would steal children and eat them. The name Jefferson Davis should have brought loathing and revulsion to all who heard it. The very idea of another civil war should have sent shudders down the spines of the Southerns.

Had things been done correctly..there would have been no KKK, no Jim Crow laws and the South would have recovered far quicker then it did.

In this case..the south with killed with kindness. There should have been a massive blood letting after the "War of Southern Treachery" to "refresh the tree of liberty".

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I've heard people decry the Confederate flag flying on statehouse grounds in SC, saying that it is insensitive.

I've also heard people decry the would be Ground Zero mosque, also saying it is insensitive.

Not surprisingly, there is very little overlap among the two groups doing the decrying.


What I'd like to have explained, by anyone taking any side, is why one is indeed insensitive while the other is not.


note: Thread inspired by Ravi's self-pwnage in another thread.

The Confederate flag is part of American history, the mosque is not.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What does that have to do with anything?

The south rose against the Union, formed their own government and attacked the North. A clear violation of the Constitution, clearly treacherous and treasonous. The North was far to nice to the south. Every southern general should have been hung. Jefferson Davis should have stood trial for treason and been shot. The fields of the south should have been salted, the cities leveled and flying the southern colors should have resulted in a death penalty.

The punishment to the South didn't make the message clear enough.

Thanks for proving you haven't complete any individual studies.

I take it you've done independent studies on the 19th century American People?

Thats the point.

The "point" isn't what you deem it to be.

My point is that the United States screwed up after the civil war. Punishments were not harsh enough. How do we know this? The south still talks about secession and flys southern colors.

Jefferson Davis should have had a status worse then Benedict Arnold. Stories should have been made up about how he would steal children and eat them. The name Jefferson Davis should have brought loathing and revulsion to all who heard it. The very idea of another civil war should have sent shudders down the spines of the Southerns.

Had things been done correctly..there would have been no KKK, no Jim Crow laws and the South would have recovered far quicker then it did.

In this case..the south with killed with kindness. There should have been a massive blood letting after the "War of Southern Treachery" to "refresh the tree of liberty".

This is what I mean you need to do some self studies. The federal government did not have any grounds to punish anyone. The Supereme court advised President Johnson not to procede with any such action.
The theory of our national existence ... - Google Books

 

[AllieBaba]

Blood letting?

Of American countrymen?

That's nauseating. The country had been through years of bloodletting. The South surrendered.

But it's nice to see what you think of your fellow citizens.

 

[Sallow]

Blood letting?

Of American countrymen?

That's nauseating. The country had been through years of bloodletting. The South surrendered.

But it's nice to see what you think of your fellow citizens.

What was "disgusting" was starting the war in the first place as a method to insure the "right" to enslave fellow Americans.

That was disgusting. And what's further disgusting is holding the "rebels" that went to war over this..in high regard. And further disgusting still, is talk of secession, today.

So..there's enough disgust to go around. Especially toward those "fellow citizens" that think it's just hunky dory to advocate violence as a remedy to political differences.

 

[Sallow]

Thanks for proving you haven't complete any individual studies.


Thats the point.

The "point" isn't what you deem it to be.

My point is that the United States screwed up after the civil war. Punishments were not harsh enough. How do we know this? The south still talks about secession and flys southern colors.

Jefferson Davis should have had a status worse then Benedict Arnold. Stories should have been made up about how he would steal children and eat them. The name Jefferson Davis should have brought loathing and revulsion to all who heard it. The very idea of another civil war should have sent shudders down the spines of the Southerns.

Had things been done correctly..there would have been no KKK, no Jim Crow laws and the South would have recovered far quicker then it did.

In this case..the south with killed with kindness. There should have been a massive blood letting after the "War of Southern Treachery" to "refresh the tree of liberty".

This is what I mean you need to do some self studies. The federal government did not have any grounds to punish anyone. The Supereme court advised President Johnson not to procede with any such action.
The theory of our national existence ... - Google Books

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The "point" isn't what you deem it to be.

My point is that the United States screwed up after the civil war. Punishments were not harsh enough. How do we know this? The south still talks about secession and flys southern colors.

Jefferson Davis should have had a status worse then Benedict Arnold. Stories should have been made up about how he would steal children and eat them. The name Jefferson Davis should have brought loathing and revulsion to all who heard it. The very idea of another civil war should have sent shudders down the spines of the Southerns.

Had things been done correctly..there would have been no KKK, no Jim Crow laws and the South would have recovered far quicker then it did.

In this case..the south with killed with kindness. There should have been a massive blood letting after the "War of Southern Treachery" to "refresh the tree of liberty".

This is what I mean you need to do some self studies. The federal government did not have any grounds to punish anyone. The Supereme court advised President Johnson not to procede with any such action.
The theory of our national existence ... - Google Books

Is that yes I agree with you?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Blood letting?

Of American countrymen?

That's nauseating. The country had been through years of bloodletting. The South surrendered.

But it's nice to see what you think of your fellow citizens.

What was "disgusting" was starting the war in the first place as a method to insure the "right" to enslave fellow Americans.

That was disgusting. And what's further disgusting is holding the "rebels" that went to war over this..in high regard. And further disgusting still, is talk of secession, today.

So..there's enough disgust to go around. Especially toward those "fellow citizens" that think it's just hunky dory to advocate violence as a remedy to political differences.

I suggest once again do some research of the people of the 19th century.

 

[Sallow]

This is what I mean you need to do some self studies. The federal government did not have any grounds to punish anyone. The Supereme court advised President Johnson not to procede with any such action.
The theory of our national existence ... - Google Books

Is that yes I agree with you?

Um...no.

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Is that yes I agree with you?

Um...no.

What does that have to do with anything?

Research do some research. The supreme court told President Johnson that he did not have theauthority to try anyone for treason.

 

[syrenn]

Interesting comparison, but an incorrect one. Here is a more accurate comparison. A Church represents the KKK like a Mosque represents the 9/11 attacks. The 9/11 hijackers used the Koran the same way the KKK used the Bible to justify their racism. Christians should not have to apologize or feel any collective guilt for the actions of the KKK. And Muslims should not have to feel any collective guilt for the actions of 9/11.

Lastly, the Confederate flag was the symbol that represented segregation. It was the dividing symbol between the North and South. This Community Center with a Mosque NEAR Ground Zero is an attempt of Moderate Muslims to represent their religion properly and unite. The fact of the matter is that people who oppose the Mosque believe it was the religion that caused the 9/11 attack instead of crazy individuals.

You also need to understand the historical meanings and symbolism of WHERE they build mosques.

 

[Sallow]

Is that yes I agree with you?

Um...no.

What does that have to do with anything?

Research do some research. The supreme court told President Johnson that he did not have theauthority to try anyone for treason.

No they didn't. Did you read your own link?