Communism, Socialism or Capitalism?

[PubliusInfinitum]

ROFLMNAO...

So you're saying that Socialism 'necessitates' the public ownership of the means of production..., which in NO WAY should be confused with Government intervention the markets...

GENIUS!

Explaining further that this Socialist attempt to control the means of production is merely Socialism acting as a 'stabilizing agent' to prevent capitalism's inevitable collapse?

Yet in reality, capitalism has a long history of stability; where the socialist stabilization, such as Bawney Fwank's coercive abuse of power in threatening the US Financial Markets with civil right law suits; where the Socialist demanded that if the Financial Markets did not lower their actuarial thresholds to accommodate the 'underprivileged' they'd find themselves under Investigation by the US Justice Department; where upon the market foolishly capitulated; which resulted in a filthy fascist partnership; followed up by socialist psuedo-gaurantees of those sub-prime loans through Fanny and Freddie; and THAT Socialist "Stabilization of Capitalism" resulted in the present financial meltdown; where FURTHER Socialist Stabilization has resulted IN THE SAME absurd policy which is propping up failures and punishing success... all of which can only result in an exponentially deeper leve of economic recession and a prolonged PERIOD required to recover from that socialist induced calamity...

This projecting DE-STABILIZATION as a stabilizing influence does however certify your socialist bonafides... so CONGRATS COMRADE!

No, idiot, government intervention in a capitalist economy doesn't come close to being sufficient for the establishment of socialism inasmuch as it does not introduce the public ownership of the means of production.

OH! So Socialism can ONLY EXIST in TOTALITY? Any policy which promotes the interests of or otherwise advances the power of socialist advocacies, which COULD and DO position those advocactes to take total control over the means of production, CANNOT be consider "Socialist" because, it does not enjoy the TOTALITY OF ESTABLISHED, ENTRENCHED SOCIALISM...

Well that's handy... LOL GOTCHA!

(Again kids... notice how COMPLICATED it all is...

Socialism is a DISTINCT Entity which exist ONLY in ethereal uptopian myth; which can never be realized because of the inherent imperfections of fluidity common to reality... meaning that transitional snapshot identities of ANY governance will NEVER meet the pedantic definitions designed to conceal its fatally flawed construct.)

Government intervention plays an integral role in capitalist economic development. For instance, we could consider the role of government intervention in strategic trade policy, namely through protections of the development of infant industries, which has the effect of maximizing dynamic comparative advantage.

LOL... Wellthere ya have it... A Constitutional Republican Government, the representatives of which promote the general welfare of the citizenry, is tantamount to 'government intervention'... I mean after all, there's a government and it's clearly intervening... SO it's NOT PURE CAPITALISM... ROFLMNAO... Sweet mother that's hysterical!

I mean to get there, all we have to do is to set aside the whole thing where the government merely establishes guidelines which promote the means by which one soversign nation is expected to treat the trade by free individuals of our sovereign nation who seek trade with same... and PRESTO! You've got the government 'IN BED with BUSINESS'....

Funny stuff...

Unless, of course, you want to maintain that capitalism has never existed, since free markets have never existed in an industrialized society.

DAMN I'M GOOD! Can I call it or WHAT? I know these morons like the back of my ample hand...

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Capitalism and socialism are broadly opposing schools, but communism is a variety of socialism, as Anglo-Saxon capitalism, liberal democratic capitalism and the more "Rhenish" social democratic capitalism are varieties of capitalism. ...

ROFLMNAO... Yeah... that's right kids... Communism is a VERY complex amalgam of subtle nuance... weaved through in a series of historical intrigues, that without total consciousness of… one can NEVER BEGIN to understand the unfathomable composite that is COMMUNISM!

LOL… Of course this is by design, because if Communism is not diluted down to the imperceptible, then someone could easily recognize that all Communism is, is the natural logical extension of socialism; and from that certainty, draw the reasonable conclusion that maybe it's a REALLY bad idea to concede one's inalienable rights to the unrestricted challenge of the irresistible power of the STATE; and thus to tolerate the advocacies of such and the attempts such as this farce, by Agwhatshername which seeks to first, prop up her own self esteem and second to do so by trying to make the elementary… incomprehensible.

Thus the chronic projections of ingnorance upon her opposition... The fact is Communism is death to freedom... period and without exception and this without regard to the idiocy born through attempts to show that tyranny is by definition:True Freedom.

Of course. That's the basis behind opposition to capitalism, since it's necessarily supported by the state. The same is true for Soviet state capitalism, which is why forms of libertarian and anarchist communism are the only true forms. Communism is effectively a socialist economic system wherein labor is contributed according to abilities and goods and services are distributed according to needs. Your reference to Soviet state capitalism is therefore inaccurate.

There is no such thing as "Soviet State Capitalism"... such is a MYTH created by leftist, to obscure the indisputable FAILURE of Communism, whther it be Soviet Communism or any other facet of the same failure... A free nation is a nation whose economy is capitalist. And that is the natural order... the only way it CAN WORK. There are no exceptions, as there can BE no exceptions. Because all capitalism IS, is the free exchange of goods and services to the mutual benefit of both parties, where each individual understands the principles and to the extent of their imperfect means tends to their reponsibility to trade fair value for fair value.

Where those imperfections result in the overt exploitation of one party, it is the responsibility of that individual to seek resolution through the fair and just judicial system, which itself operates absent perfection, but works towards perfection by the ceaseless advancement of sound principle...

Socialism simply ignores the natural imperfection and thus amplifies those imperfections by providing unlimited power to the STATE, which is comprised by the same imperfect beings who could not maintain their own simple responsibilities, which sustained their own individuals rights... where those imperfect beings are empowered to usurp the rights of the individuals over which their hold power; by removing the aformentioned responsibilities from the rights of the individual and transferring those responsibilities to the STATE... the result of which IMMEDIATELY and without exception REMOVES THE MEANS OF THE INDIVIDUAL TO EXERCISE THEIR RIGHTS... thus Socialism is nothing SHORT OF TYRANNY!

 

[Cecilie1200]

Hey sister, if you don't want to talk to me - don't answer my posts!

-Joe

I didn't say I didn't want to talk to you. I enjoy pointing out what an imbecile you are. What I said was that I don't want YOU to talk . . . at least until you have some frigging clue what the topic is.

Let me get this straight... your opinion is fine, and I'm free to comment as long as I agree with you...

Capitalism?

Communism? ​

Socialism? ​

Wait! I have it! You must be a Fascist!

Well isn't that special?!?

-Joe

I find it very interesting that you interpret a personal preference of mine as a fascistic oppression. Where is it written that you HAVE to do what I say? Have you always been this submissive and weak-willed?

But hey, if it's too much trouble for you to be informed before opening your blowhole, I wouldn't want to tax you with any excess education or anything. Carry on.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Human Development Index- Most Liveable Countries

Rank

1 Iceland 0.968 ▲ +0.001
2 Norway 0.968 ▲ +0.001
3 Canada 0.967 ▲ +0.002
4 Australia 0.965 ▲ +0.002
5 Ireland 0.960 ▲ +0.002
6 Netherlands 0.958 ▲ +0.002
7 Sweden 0.958 ▲ +0.001
8 Japan 0.956 ▲ +0.003
9 Luxembourg 0.956 ▲ +0.002
10 Switzerland 0.955 ▲ +0.002
11 France 0.955 ▲ +0.002
12 Finland 0.954 ▲ +0.004
13 Denmark 0.952 ▲ +0.003
14 Austria 0.951 ▲ +0.003
15 United States 0.950 ▬
16 Spain 0.949 ▲ +0.003
17 Belgium 0.948 ▲ +0.003
18 Greece 0.947 ▲ +0.004
19 Italy 0.945 ▲ +0.003
20 New Zealand 0.944 ▲ +0.001
21 United Kingdom


wikipedia

Human Development Index... ROFLMNAO SWEET MOTHER THAT'S HYSTERICAL!

Does this remind anyone else of that study WHO released purporting to rank the quality of available healthcare in various nations, and it turned out their major criteria was how socialized their medical system was?

Don't even get me started on the "Wikipedia is reality!" brigade.

 

[amrchaos]

Hey Agna, Pub. I

Are you two really one person trying to argue the pro's and cons of unregulated Captialism versus and Communism?


Oh by the way, I did have access to Parecon by Abel--I only look partly at his treatise before returning it to the library. Kind of interesting, yet I failed to see how the general concept is left or right.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Human Development Index- Most Liveable Countries

Rank

1 Iceland 0.968 ▲ +0.001
2 Norway 0.968 ▲ +0.001
3 Canada 0.967 ▲ +0.002
4 Australia 0.965 ▲ +0.002
5 Ireland 0.960 ▲ +0.002
6 Netherlands 0.958 ▲ +0.002
7 Sweden 0.958 ▲ +0.001
8 Japan 0.956 ▲ +0.003
9 Luxembourg 0.956 ▲ +0.002
10 Switzerland 0.955 ▲ +0.002
11 France 0.955 ▲ +0.002
12 Finland 0.954 ▲ +0.004
13 Denmark 0.952 ▲ +0.003
14 Austria 0.951 ▲ +0.003
15 United States 0.950 ▬
16 Spain 0.949 ▲ +0.003
17 Belgium 0.948 ▲ +0.003
18 Greece 0.947 ▲ +0.004
19 Italy 0.945 ▲ +0.003
20 New Zealand 0.944 ▲ +0.001
21 United Kingdom


wikipedia

Human Development Index... ROFLMNAO SWEET MOTHER THAT'S HYSTERICAL!

Does this remind anyone else of that study WHO released purporting to rank the quality of available healthcare in various nations, and it turned out their major criteria was how socialized their medical system was?

Don't even get me started on the "Wikipedia is reality!" brigade.

LOL... Girl you are ON FIRE! Ya NAILED IT!

It's not just pure propaganda of the absurd variety... It is, as you noted, a LIE...

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Hey Agna, Pub. I

Are you two really one person trying to argue the pro's and cons of unregulated Captialism versus and Communism?

Well No, we're not... it just appears as though I've designed a separate psuedonym to project a masterful command of the issue onto Publius, through the complete failure of Agwhatshername to produce a well reasoned, intellectually sound, logically valid argument.

But I do understand how the exchanges would appear as such.

 

[Freedomgone2009]

Too bad China treats their people like shit. Disagree with the government, your dead, have more than 2 kids, your in jail and your 3rd born kid is murdered.

Something isn't right there in China yet we continue to borrow money from them

Kevin, your statements are not untrue. Not only that, they are proof that there is a huge difference between central planning and bad central planning.

This is why democracy* should be able produce a higher standard of living than an authoritarian government can.

*Not what we've had in America the last 50 years, but true democracy, where your voice and my voice are not squelched by the dollars that corporations - including foreign corporations - can provide.

-Joe

I see no proof that there's a difference between central planning and bad central planning.

Proof, eh?

How about China? I think we agree that the central planning done by The United States over the last 50 years has been somewhat lacking in vision, to say the least. Over those same 50 years the Chinese have discovered and implemented freedom in the market place, guided by strict central planning.

Who now owes who more money than God could repay?

Did China create Utopia? Hell no! Nobody will argue that the Chinese Government has done everything right, but they did end up on the correct side of a $13 Trillion mortgage. And they did it by planning for their future as a Nation while we, rich and poor alike, kept asking our government "What's in it for me" and accepted the huge transfer of wealth from our future, using China and the Arabs as the bankers and paying a hefty commission to our "planning committee" in the process.

The sooner we realize how stupid we look from space, the sooner we can start planning, as a Nation, for a better future.

-Joe

 

[garyd]

I'd argue that China hasn't in fact got much of anything right. Burning Coal mines in China now produce more CO2 than all the factories in the US combined. The water shed is essentailly poisonous in many places, The average Chinese makes less a year than the Average Mexican still living in Mexico.

China looks more like helter skelter than anything else. If they centrally planned that debacle someone ought to be fired for incompetence. They have a large trade surplus with us and most of their other trading partners because the yuan is pegged to the dollar and at a rediculously low rate which means the average Chinese is getting screwed by his government worse than any american got screwed during the gilded age.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I see no proof that there's a difference between central planning and bad central planning.

Proof, eh?

How about China? I think we agree that the central planning done by The United States over the last 50 years has been somewhat lacking in vision, to say the least. Over those same 50 years the Chinese have discovered and implemented freedom in the market place, guided by strict central planning.

Who now owes who more money than God could repay?

Did China create Utopia? Hell no! Nobody will argue that the Chinese Government has done everything right, but they did end up on the correct side of a $13 Trillion mortgage. And they did it by planning for their future as a Nation while we, rich and poor alike, kept asking our government "What's in it for me" and accepted the huge transfer of wealth from our future, using China and the Arabs as the bankers and paying a hefty commission to our "planning committee" in the process.

The sooner we realize how stupid we look from space, the sooner we can start planning, as a Nation, for a better future.

-Joe

Too bad China treats their people like shit. Disagree with the government, your dead, have more than 2 kids, your in jail and your 3rd born kid is murdered.

Something isn't right there in China yet we continue to borrow money from them

Couldn't agree more, bro'. I wouldn't want to live there.

Considering how productive the Chinese are in spite of it all, imagine what We, The People could do with our freedoms if we had some decent planning and vision from the top regarding our infrastructure and entitlements.

-Joe

 

[editec]

We have central planning too.


Our insane trade laws are a perfect example of that central planning.

 

[AVG-JOE]

We have central planning too.


Our insane trade laws are a perfect example of that central planning.

The problem as I see it is that the planning we have had since the 50's, climaxing with the Bush II administrations pandering to the voters with entitlements and the corporate kings with tax cuts, has been a mix-mash of power groups getting what they can from the system. By 'power groups' I mean everyone from the Social Security and other entitlements crowd who toss a ship-load of votes into the mix, to the corporate kings who toss in money.

Vision means telling some groups 'no' even if the incentive they offer is truly tempting, and telling other groups 'yes' even though the incentive they offer is nothing, with long range goals concerning infrastructure, environment and quality of life as the driving forces.

Capitalism needs a government with the overall interests of the people at large as it's charge to keep from becoming feudalism at war. The age of Royal Absolutism in Europe (17th & 18th centuries) taught us this, if we'll bother to learn from history.

-Joe

 

[editec]

We have central planning too.


Our insane trade laws are a perfect example of that central planning.

The problem as I see it is that the planning we have had since the 50's, climaxing with the Bush II administrations pandering to the voters with entitlements and the corporate kings with tax cuts, has been a mix-mash of power groups getting what they can from the system.

Yeah, I think that sums it up rather well. Of course the most influential group is the group with the most money...and our laws and policies are all the evidence I need to know THAT is true.

By 'power groups' I mean everyone from the Social Security and other entitlements crowd who toss a ship-load of votes into the mix, to the corporate kings who toss in money.

YUP. AARP has power...but not enough to save Social security for much longer.

Vision means telling some groups 'no' even if the incentive they offer is truly tempting, and telling other groups 'yes' even though the incentive they offer is nothing, with long range goals concerning infrastructure, environment and quality of life as the driving forces.

True. Hard to do in a shamocracy, but they're managing to pull it off mostly by propagandizing us to be at one another's throats while they systematically bankrupt the nation.

Capitalism needs a government with the overall interests of the people at large as it's charge to keep from becoming feudalism at war. The age of Royal Absolutism in Europe (17th & 18th centuries) taught us this, if we'll bother to learn from history.

-Joe

We're already in a feudal society, only this time it's CAPITAL rather than bloodlines which decides who are the PEERS of this realm.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Proof, eh?

How about China? I think we agree that the central planning done by The United States over the last 50 years has been somewhat lacking in vision, to say the least. Over those same 50 years the Chinese have discovered and implemented freedom in the market place, guided by strict central planning.

Who now owes who more money than God could repay?

Did China create Utopia? Hell no! Nobody will argue that the Chinese Government has done everything right, but they did end up on the correct side of a $13 Trillion mortgage. And they did it by planning for their future as a Nation while we, rich and poor alike, kept asking our government "What's in it for me" and accepted the huge transfer of wealth from our future, using China and the Arabs as the bankers and paying a hefty commission to our "planning committee" in the process.

The sooner we realize how stupid we look from space, the sooner we can start planning, as a Nation, for a better future.

-Joe

Too bad China treats their people like shit. Disagree with the government, your dead, have more than 2 kids, your in jail and your 3rd born kid is murdered.

Something isn't right there in China yet we continue to borrow money from them

Couldn't agree more, bro'. I wouldn't want to live there.

Considering how productive the Chinese are in spite of it all, imagine what We, The People could do with our freedoms if we had some decent planning and vision from the top regarding our infrastructure and entitlements.

-Joe

Yeah. Just imagine. We could be China, instead of the most powerful, wealthiest nation on Earth. Oh, if only.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

OK Fellow American's which do you prefer for our country, Communism, Socialism or Capitalism? and what is the reason for your preference?

A - you know there is a "poll" feature.


B - I prefer to use whatever works. If you think that we should be 100% of either of those three you're an idiot.

 

[Freedomgone2009]

Too bad China treats their people like shit. Disagree with the government, your dead, have more than 2 kids, your in jail and your 3rd born kid is murdered.

Something isn't right there in China yet we continue to borrow money from them

Couldn't agree more, bro'. I wouldn't want to live there.

Considering how productive the Chinese are in spite of it all, imagine what We, The People could do with our freedoms if we had some decent planning and vision from the top regarding our infrastructure and entitlements.

-Joe

Yeah. Just imagine. We could be China, instead of the most powerful, wealthiest nation on Earth. Oh, if only.

We were once a powerful nation, after decades of idiots in Washington, seems China has moved their way up to the top. Perhaps we have to many hippies in America

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'd argue that China hasn't in fact got much of anything right. Burning Coal mines in China now produce more CO2 than all the factories in the US combined. The water shed is essentailly poisonous in many places, The average Chinese makes less a year than the Average Mexican still living in Mexico.

China looks more like helter skelter than anything else. If they centrally planned that debacle someone ought to be fired for incompetence. They have a large trade surplus with us and most of their other trading partners because the yuan is pegged to the dollar and at a rediculously low rate which means the average Chinese is getting screwed by his government worse than any american got screwed during the gilded age.

And how about the slew of recalls of Chinese products that were killing their customers? Sure glad central planning and government oversight keeps people safe from the depredations of companies like that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Couldn't agree more, bro'. I wouldn't want to live there.

Considering how productive the Chinese are in spite of it all, imagine what We, The People could do with our freedoms if we had some decent planning and vision from the top regarding our infrastructure and entitlements.

-Joe

Yeah. Just imagine. We could be China, instead of the most powerful, wealthiest nation on Earth. Oh, if only.

We were once a powerful nation, after decades of idiots in Washington, seems China has moved their way up to the top. Perhaps we have to many hippies in America

We still are the most powerful and wealthiest nation on Earth. The fact that China has surged light years ahead of where they were doesn't mean they've surged ahead of us.

 

[Yukon]

US Government owns the Banks, the Auto Companies, the Insurance Companies, Social Security, etc. etc. etc. The name of your socialist mecca should be the 'United Soviets of America'.

Obama is the first Chairman of the USA...........I wonder if he has a red-book?

 

[sealybobo]

US Government owns the Banks, the Auto Companies, the Insurance Companies, Social Security, etc. etc. etc. The name of your socialist mecca should be the 'United Soviets of America'.

Obama is the first Chairman of the USA...........I wonder if he has a red-book?

What do you call it when the US taxpayers fund the Iraq war but Haloburton/Blackwater & the Oil companies get all the profits?

Or the bank bailouts?

Big Industry/Big Corporations who cry the loudest about free trade and capitalism are not really being honest, are they?

They sure don't like taking the losses.

Here's another one. People like you tend to believe that if you can't get private money to fund a project, then the project shouldn't be funded at all. And I agree. So back when Bush owned the Texas Rangers, they wanted a new stadium. So they got tax payers to pay the bill. Then not too long after, Bush sold the stadium and made a profit. But he never put any of his money on the line.

So continue to let large corporations and the corporate media sucker you into thinking that it is a bad thing if the government ever makes a profit, while simultaniously looting the treasury. SUCKERS!!!