Commentary: McCain right, Obama wrong on school vouchers

[Shogun]

Sound good, but them it seems to me we keep throwing money at the public schools and the keep failing our kids. By failing I do not mean flunking, I mean not giving them a good education. (just so there can be no question what I meant)

indeed.. Perhaps instead of throwing money at salaries and quickly outmoded tech we should invest in paying kids to achieve. I offer the Book-It program as an example of positive reinforcement molding behaviour.


Don't flinch at my posts, Chuck.. it's unbecoming.

 

[Charles_Main]

ahh err........oh never mind he had to throw a childish jab in at the end. To bad we were almost having a civil discussion.

 

[random3434]

LOL, if they got a tax break to send their kids to private schools, that mostly or totally offset what it cost them, then why would the poor not be able to afford to send their kids to private schools again?

Here is an example of the cost of a private school in Indianapolis:


Finances and Admission
Admission Deadline Dec. 14 / Rolling
Yearly Tuition Cost $16,090
Tuition Notes Preschool/Jr. Kindergarten (1/2 day) - $9100 Sr. Kindergarten-Grade 5 - $15170 Grades 6-12 - $16090
% on Financial Aid 33%
Average Financial Aid Grant $7,400

Even with financial aid, I could not afford that for one child, could you?
I'm not sure on the tax breaks given, but would that large amount be offset in your plan?

 

[Charles_Main]

Here is an example of the cost of a private school in Indianapolis:


Finances and Admission
Admission Deadline Dec. 14 / Rolling
Yearly Tuition Cost $16,090
Tuition Notes Preschool/Jr. Kindergarten (1/2 day) - $9100 Sr. Kindergarten-Grade 5 - $15170 Grades 6-12 - $16090
% on Financial Aid 33%
Average Financial Aid Grant $7,400

Even with financial aid, I could not afford that for one child, could you?
I'm not sure on the tax breaks given, but would that large amount be offset in your plan?

Was just an idea, Never said it was a great one

 

[editec]

As long as those vouchers are large enough to pay for each child to go to Choate, Andover or any of the most expensive prep schools, (currently about $38,000 per year) I'm all for them.

Otherwise, I think vouchers are not going to solve the problem of our schools, folks.

Some of your faith in the market forces to solve education's ills is touchingly niave, in my opinion.

 

[Shogun]

ahh err........oh never mind he had to throw a childish jab in at the end. To bad we were almost having a civil discussion.

chucky.. your statement in parentheses came through loud and clear, buddy. Stop acting like a victim here.


Fulton's 'Learn & Earn' pays kids to study

Greg Fields, assistant superintendent for high school curriculum with Fulton Schools, said the students are receiving four hours of after school tutoring in math and science each week. As a "reward" the students will get paid $8 an hour -- up to $32 a week -- to attend.

The funding for the program, estimated at about $60,000 for its 15-week run, is coming from private donations with no taxpayer dollars involved, Fulton School officials said.

Fulton's ‘Learn & Earn’ pays kids to study: Local news for Alpharetta, Roswell, Milton, Johns Creek, Forsyth


A Plan to Pay for Top Scores on Some Tests Gains Ground

Roland G. Fryer, a 30-year-old Harvard economist known for his study of racial inequality in schools, is back in New York to again promote a big idea: Pay students cash for high scores on standardized tests and their performance might improve. And he has captured the attention of Schools Chancellor Joel I. Klein and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg.

Across the country, educators have been experimenting with cash incentives. A program in Chelsea, Mass., gave children $25 for perfect attendance. Some Dallas schools pay children $2 for each book they read.

A Plan to Pay for Top Scores on Some Tests Gains Ground - New York Times



You can find my opinions on this in the Education forum.

 

[Ravi]

As long as those vouchers are large enough to pay for each child to go to Choate, Andover or any of the most expensive prep schools, (currently about $38,000 per year) I'm all for them.

Otherwise, I think vouchers are not going to solve the problem of our schools, folks.

Some of your faith in the market forces to solve education's ills is touchingly niave, in my opinion.

I agree. It's never been anything but an attempt to privatize the school system.

 

[random3434]

As long as those vouchers are large enough to pay for each child to go to Choate, Andover or any of the most expensive prep schools, (currently about $38,000 per year) I'm all for them.

Otherwise, I think vouchers are not going to solve the problem of our schools, folks.

Some of your faith in the market forces to solve education's ills is touchingly niave, in my opinion.

It's not the market that's going to save our youth, it's parent support and involvement that needs to be the number one priority, teaching their child manners and respect, and then the teachers can take it from there.

 

[Charles_Main]

chucky.. your statement in parentheses came through loud and clear, buddy. Stop acting like a victim here.

Sure because everyone is always addressing you right. The all knowing omnipresent Shog is the end all beat all source on every thing.

What was that you told me about 2 sticks and a paper bag in the woods?

 

[Shogun]

well, considering that your response in question friggin QUOTED mine.


anyway. lets not distract the thread. Put your helmet back on and get back on the field.

 

[BrianH]

I'm not sure if I'm for vouchers or not....It's still pretty shady to me. Would this not continue to widen the gap between achievers and kids that struggle to achieve?

 

[Shogun]

I think part of the problem is that we have all but eviscerated employment opportunities for kids who don't score within the top 10%of their class. Unskilled Manufacturing jobs? Mexico Non-specialized Tech jobs? India. It's a logical fallacy to believe that EVERY kid will achieve greatness academically which is my main problem with No Child Left Behind. By using a global economy and free trade as a shield we've undermined our future generations and have invested in national poverty.

 

[BrianH]

I think part of the problem is that we have all but eviscerated employment opportunities for kids who don't score within the top 10%of their class. Unskilled Manufacturing jobs? Mexico Non-specialized Tech jobs? India. It's a logical fallacy to believe that EVERY kid will achieve greatness academically which is my main problem with No Child Left Behind. By using a global economy and free trade as a shield we've undermined our future generations and have invested in national poverty.

I can agree with that. While the intentions were not to do so, we've unfortunately continued to widen the gap between the intelligent and less intelligent. We've allowed it to become more acceptable to be stupid and unintelligent and I feel vouchers will continue to to the same. Many students may not be able to afford changing schools...considering other schools are not going to send out buses to retrieve kids outside their districts...And then districts with no parochial or private schools will just be screwed because there's nowhere else to go to.

 

[Shogun]

There was a time in America when a breadwinner could go get a job and support a family on one income without having a degree. Now, There will always be lazy bastards that refuse to work but this feels like a reincarnation of Kerouac's Beat generation.

 

[Chris]

I think kids should be forced to wear orange jumpsuits and pick up trash on the side of the road until they are 18. Then they should be drafted into the military.

 

[Wow]

Then the rich will benefit from tax breaks because they can already afford to send their kids to private schools. Just what we need, another reason for the poor to resent the rich.

Since about half of the rich people in America do not support vouchers or tax breaks for sending kids to private schools, they would not mind having their school taxes increased, right?
Then the poor will be so happy and grateful towards the rich, right?

 

[Wow]

I think kids should be forced to wear orange jumpsuits and pick up trash on the side of the road until they are 18. Then they should be drafted into the military.

That's what public school Teachers should be doing during the summer to earn their full time salary.

 

[editec]

It's not the market that's going to save our youth, it's parent support and involvement that needs to be the number one priority, teaching their child manners and respect, and then the teachers can take it from there.

Which has nothing to do with vouchers, agreed?

 

[editec]

I think part of the problem is that we have all but eviscerated employment opportunities for kids who don't score within the top 10%of their class. Unskilled Manufacturing jobs? Mexico Non-specialized Tech jobs? India. It's a logical fallacy to believe that EVERY kid will achieve greatness academically which is my main problem with No Child Left Behind. By using a global economy and free trade as a shield we've undermined our future generations and have invested in national poverty.[/quote]


Particularly astute.

Education alone will not solve the problems those stupid policies have created.

Hell, I've read that the largest pool of unemployed are recent college grads who can't find jobs.

 

[BrianH]

There was a time in America when a breadwinner could go get a job and support a family on one income without having a degree. Now, There will always be lazy bastards that refuse to work but this feels like a reincarnation of Kerouac's Beat generation.

And believe it or not, it's extremely difficult to get by with two incomes...which I'm sure you know of. lol...no comment.