Comey "commits" two crimes

[theDoctorisIn]

BULL SHIT!

Its Called; calling the DOJ and filing a complaint as the law demands.

You find out somebody fradulently charged something to your credit card. Who at the DOJ do you file a complaint with?

The specifics of the crime are the determining designation. Personal crimes, not due to office or official duties, go to your local cop shop. Obstruction and interference with official duties must go to the DOJ by statute and by US government policies.

Lets see those "statutes" and "policies", then.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You're certainly making a strong case that Trump is guilty of Obstruction - but there's nothing in there that says the Director of the FBI has to report anything to his "superiors".

LOL.. having problems with the Law are we?

Lets play a game...

You are the director of the FBI.. The POTUS makes a demand that you are to stop and investigation into a friend and odes it in a way that you feel threatened...

You now have two choices by statute.

1. You did not perceive it was a threat and do nothing. You might make notes about what was said but you take no actions.

Or

2. You inform the persons who are in legal authority above you who can investigate and prosecute.

IF you do 1 then you have no standing to come back at a later date, after your a fired disgruntled employee, to revisit it and claim you were then threatened. (this is why time is of the essence). You also do not go to congress and inform them and tell them you did not perceive this as an order or threat.

No, it's you who are having some problems with the law.

There is no law that requires Comey to report to anyone "above" him. The law you're looking for (18 USC 4) reads as follows:

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

As FBI director, Comey was a "person in civil or military authority". There's nothing in that law that requires him to take it to his "superiors".

His boss. Jeff Sessions.

You mean the guy who has already recused himself from the investigation, due to his own ties to Russia?

He did NOT recuse himself from the chain of command.

Well that depends entirely on whom he is commanding and in what capacity they are acting now. Doesn't it?

 

[radical right]

IN the case of Obstruction it is most certainly dictated to the DOJ not your local cop shop.

The FBI is part of the DOJ. So Comey can report it to the FBI.

Agencies | DOJ | Department of Justice

 

[Billy_Bob]

No it isn't "It's just like patent or copy-write protection," moron. What part of "you are required to report it" means you don't have to report it?

Putting quotation marks around something doesn't make it a fact.

The statute doesn't dictate who within civil law enforcement you report it to. If Comey is mugged walking down the street, he reports it to the DC police, not the DOJ.

IN the case of Obstruction it is most certainly dictated to the DOJ not your local cop shop.

The Department of Justice is a political body, not an investigative body.

The FBI is the law enforcement organization with jurisdiction here.

Your spinning in circles is noted..

Its funny that you were OK with this set up when Obama investigated Hillary and other cronies..

 

[theDoctorisIn]

No it isn't "It's just like patent or copy-write protection," moron. What part of "you are required to report it" means you don't have to report it?

Putting quotation marks around something doesn't make it a fact.

The statute doesn't dictate who within civil law enforcement you report it to. If Comey is mugged walking down the street, he reports it to the DC police, not the DOJ.

IN the case of Obstruction it is most certainly dictated to the DOJ not your local cop shop.

The Department of Justice is a political body, not an investigative body.

The FBI is the law enforcement organization with jurisdiction here.

Your spinning in circles is noted..

Its funny that you were OK with this set up when Obama investigated Hillary and other cronies..

What law enforcement body investigated Richard Nixon for Obstruction of Justice?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

No it isn't "It's just like patent or copy-write protection," moron. What part of "you are required to report it" means you don't have to report it?

Putting quotation marks around something doesn't make it a fact.

The statute doesn't dictate who within civil law enforcement you report it to. If Comey is mugged walking down the street, he reports it to the DC police, not the DOJ.

IN the case of Obstruction it is most certainly dictated to the DOJ not your local cop shop.

The Department of Justice is a political body, not an investigative body.

The FBI is the law enforcement organization with jurisdiction here.

Your spinning in circles is noted..

Its funny that you were OK with this set up when Obama investigated Hillary and other cronies..

Obama never investigated anyone.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Its like arguing with idiots.. They are so intent on their partisan hack position that the facts and laws don't matter..

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Its like arguing with idiots.. They are so intent on their partisan hack position that the facts and laws don't matter..

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Its like arguing with idiots.. They are so intent on their partisan hack position that the facts and laws don't matter..

Who did Obama investigate?

 

[Billy_Bob]

Putting quotation marks around something doesn't make it a fact.

The statute doesn't dictate who within civil law enforcement you report it to. If Comey is mugged walking down the street, he reports it to the DC police, not the DOJ.

IN the case of Obstruction it is most certainly dictated to the DOJ not your local cop shop.

The Department of Justice is a political body, not an investigative body.

The FBI is the law enforcement organization with jurisdiction here.

Your spinning in circles is noted..

Its funny that you were OK with this set up when Obama investigated Hillary and other cronies..

Obama never investigated anyone.

Spin it all you want. Obama ordered the investigation into Russian interference in July of 2016. Its a matter of public record.

Late July, 2016: The FBI opens its investigation into Russia's interference in the election, and the Trump campaign's possible role in it.

 

[Darkwind]

LOL.. having problems with the Law are we?

Lets play a game...

You are the director of the FBI.. The POTUS makes a demand that you are to stop and investigation into a friend and odes it in a way that you feel threatened...

You now have two choices by statute.

1. You did not perceive it was a threat and do nothing. You might make notes about what was said but you take no actions.

Or

2. You inform the persons who are in legal authority above you who can investigate and prosecute.

IF you do 1 then you have no standing to come back at a later date, after your a fired disgruntled employee, to revisit it and claim you were then threatened. (this is why time is of the essence). You also do not go to congress and inform them and tell them you did not perceive this as an order or threat.

No, it's you who are having some problems with the law.

There is no law that requires Comey to report to anyone "above" him. The law you're looking for (18 USC 4) reads as follows:

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

As FBI director, Comey was a "person in civil or military authority". There's nothing in that law that requires him to take it to his "superiors".

His boss. Jeff Sessions.

You mean the guy who has already recused himself from the investigation, due to his own ties to Russia?

He did NOT recuse himself from the chain of command.

Actually, in the context of this investigation, that's exactly what "recusing himself" means.

No, because I believe you have the context wrong.

This isn't about the investigation. It is about a law regarding coercion of a subordinate to drop an investigation (if that is what really happened). That is a separate matter of law and one in which the USAG has never recused himself. The matter of the investigation isn't relevant. The alleged intimidation is what is in focus.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The statute doesn't dictate who within civil law enforcement you report it to. If Comey is mugged walking down the street, he reports it to the DC police, not the DOJ.

IN the case of Obstruction it is most certainly dictated to the DOJ not your local cop shop.

The Department of Justice is a political body, not an investigative body.

The FBI is the law enforcement organization with jurisdiction here.

Your spinning in circles is noted..

Its funny that you were OK with this set up when Obama investigated Hillary and other cronies..

Obama never investigated anyone.

Spin it all you want. Obama ordered the investigation into Russian interference in July of 2016. Its a matter of public record.

Then show us the "record".

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The statute doesn't dictate who within civil law enforcement you report it to. If Comey is mugged walking down the street, he reports it to the DC police, not the DOJ.

IN the case of Obstruction it is most certainly dictated to the DOJ not your local cop shop.

The Department of Justice is a political body, not an investigative body.

The FBI is the law enforcement organization with jurisdiction here.

Your spinning in circles is noted..

Its funny that you were OK with this set up when Obama investigated Hillary and other cronies..

Obama never investigated anyone.

Spin it all you want. Obama ordered the investigation into Russian interference in July of 2016. Its a matter of public record.

Did he?

 

[oreo]

If we're supposed to believe Trump instructed Comey to end the investigation, then Comey committed two crimes.

First he failed to report this to the justice department. Second he committed perjury to Congress. Both serious offenses. What's amazing to me is, doesn't an FBI head know the fucking law? Geez, he was an administrator.

Or the "memo" is a bunch of BS. Either fabricated or out of context?

Breaking: Comey Caught Committing Perjury to Congress?

You have some points here--but you're problem is what comes out of Trump's mouth a day later where he admits that he fired Comey to stop the Russian investigation. That's Obstruction of Justice--that Comey can now use to support his memo's. Then we now apparently have him telling the Russians that is also in a White House memo that he fired the nut-job--(Comey) and he is no longer under investigation, which also supports Comey's memo's.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/us/politics/trump-russia-comey.html?_r=0

As far as Comey not reporting it right away--he's got a great excuse. There were 3 other investigations going on at the same time--and him releasing this information early would have compromised those investigations--which I'll bet he is going to use when he testifies and is asked about this sometime after Memorial day.

As far as your statement that he perjured himself--that comes down to dates. When was the date of the memo--and what date did he testify on? That will be fairly easily disclosed during his next public hearing.

 

[Billy_Bob]

IN the case of Obstruction it is most certainly dictated to the DOJ not your local cop shop.

The Department of Justice is a political body, not an investigative body.

The FBI is the law enforcement organization with jurisdiction here.

Your spinning in circles is noted..

Its funny that you were OK with this set up when Obama investigated Hillary and other cronies..

Obama never investigated anyone.

Spin it all you want. Obama ordered the investigation into Russian interference in July of 2016. Its a matter of public record.

Then show us the "record".

"US intelligence and the Obama administration had concluded over the summer that sophisticated Russian hackers were responsible for hacking the servers of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and leaking emails that embarrassed senior Democratic officeholders.

But for months, White House and other US officials have stopped short of publicly accusing Putin’s government, a rhetorical reluctance that Republicans have criticized and which has intensified a debate about how to deter digital attacks."

Obama started the whole meme back in mid summer 2016..

US officially accuses Russia of hacking DNC and interfering with election

Late July, 2016: The FBI opens its investigation into Russia's interference in the election, and the Trump campaign's possible role in it.

 

[Syriusly]

If we're supposed to believe Trump instructed Comey to end the investigation, then Comey committed two crimes.

First he failed to report this to the justice department. Second he committed perjury to Congress. Both serious offenses. What's amazing to me is, doesn't an FBI head know the fucking law? Geez, he was an administrator.

The only way Comey is guilty of perjury is if a) Trump was obstructing justice and b) Comey believed that Trump was actually trying to obstruct justice.

 

[usmbguest5318]

If we're supposed to believe Trump instructed Comey to end the investigation, then Comey committed two crimes.

First he failed to report this to the justice department. Second he committed perjury to Congress. Both serious offenses. What's amazing to me is, doesn't an FBI head know the fucking law? Geez, he was an administrator.

Or the "memo" is a bunch of BS. Either fabricated or out of context?

Breaking: Comey Caught Committing Perjury to Congress?

If you examine what Comey said, it was an answer to a hypothetical question regarding the JD shutting down an FBI investigation. There was no mention of Trump. Check the transcript of the hearing. Secondly, the Director is an agent of the FBI. He is under no obligation to report anything to the the JD other than a recommendation to prosecute when the investigation concludes. He is responsible for conducting the investigation which is on going. The JD is responsible for prosecuting.

He is under no obligation to report anything to the the JD

WRONG! The law is the law and he is required to by the law.. Failing to report this at the time of incident (or shortly thereafter) is a crime. So he either perjured himself or he broke the law... Which is it?

The law is the law.

Do you actually know the law in question, or did you just hear someone on the radio tell you what the law is?

Comey is required, by federal statute, to report any 'interference in' or 'request to stop' an ongoing investigation to his superiors. Those superiors would be the DOJ chief or his assistant.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34303.pdf


"Obstruction by Intimidation, Threats, Persuasion, or Deception (18 U.S.C. 1512(b) The second group of offenses within §1512 outlaws obstruction of federal congressional, judicial, or administrative activities by intimidation, threat, corrupt persuasion, or deception, 18 U.S.C. 1512(b). Parsed to its elements, subsection 1512(b) provides that: I. Whoever II. knowingly A. uses intimidation B. threatens, or C. corruptly persuades another person, or D. attempts to do so, or E. 1. engages in misleading conduct60 2. toward another person, III. with intent to A. 1. a. influence, b. delay, orc. prevent 2. the testimony of any person 3. in an official proceeding,61 or B. cause or induce any person to 1. a. i. withhold testimony, or ii. withhold a (I) record, (II) document, or (III) other object, b. from an official proceeding, or 2. a. i. alter, ii. destroy, iii. mutilate, or iv. conceal b. an object c. with intent to impair d. the object’s i. integrity or ii. availability for use e. in an official proceeding, or 3. a. evade b. legal process c. summoning that person i. to appear as a witness, or ii. to produce a (I) record, (II) document, or (III) other object, iii. in an official proceeding, i.e., a (I) federal court proceeding, (II) federal grand jury proceeding, (III) Congressional proceeding, (IV) federal agency proceeding, or (V) proceeding involving the insurance business; or 4. a. be absent b. from an official proceeding, c. to which such person has been summoned by legal process; or C. 1. a. hinder, b. delay, or c. prevent 2. the communication to a a. federal judge or b. federal law enforcement officer62 3. of information relating to the a. commission or b. possible commission of a 4. a. federal offense or b. [a] violation of conditions of i. probation, ii. supervisor release, iii. parole, or iv. release pending judicial proceedings; shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.63 In more general terms, subsection 1512(b) bans (1) knowingly, (2) using one of the prohibited forms of persuasion (intimidation, threat, misleading or corrupt persuasion), (3)(a) with the intent to prevent a witness’s testimony or physical evidence from being truthfully presented at official federal proceedings or (b) with the intent to prevent a witness from cooperating with authorities in a matter relating to a federal offense.64 It also bans any attempt to so intimidate, threaten, or corruptly persuade. 65 The term “corruptly” in the phrase “corruptly persuades” as it appears in subsection 1512(b) has been found to refer to the manner of persuasion,66 the motive for persuasion,67 and the manner of obstruction.68"

Then we have departmental regulations which implicitly directs what shall be done..

You're certainly making a strong case that Trump is guilty of Obstruction - but there's nothing in there that says the Director of the FBI has to report anything to his "superiors".

18 USC 4
Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.​

Comey, at the time, was himself such an individual -- "person in civil or military authority under the United States" -- as stipulated in 18 USC 4. Making case notes (the memo (and others like it) of which we've heard) constitutes such notice having been made. The investigators who would make use of and examine the pertinent particulars the memo(s) relates has been underway since last year. A careful reader will note too that 18 USC 4 does not stipulate that any such notification be made public before, during or after any related investigation into the matter occurs.

 

[bripat9643]

I will repeat. You don't know where the memo was sent so you can't say he did not report it.

We know Comey didn't leak the memo, so somebody leaked the memo, which means Comey gave it to somebody at the FBI or DOJ.

We don't know if there actually is a memo, dumbshit.

 

[bripat9643]

If you examine what Comey said, it was an answer to a hypothetical question regarding the JD shutting down an FBI investigation. There was no mention of Trump. Check the transcript of the hearing. Secondly, the Director is an agent of the FBI. He is under no obligation to report anything to the the JD other than a recommendation to prosecute when the investigation concludes. He is responsible for conducting the investigation which is on going. The JD is responsible for prosecuting.

He is under no obligation to report anything to the the JD

WRONG! The law is the law and he is required to by the law.. Failing to report this at the time of incident (or shortly thereafter) is a crime. So he either perjured himself or he broke the law... Which is it?

The law is the law.

Do you actually know the law in question, or did you just hear someone on the radio tell you what the law is?

Comey is required, by federal statute, to report any 'interference in' or 'request to stop' an ongoing investigation to his superiors. Those superiors would be the DOJ chief or his assistant.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34303.pdf


"Obstruction by Intimidation, Threats, Persuasion, or Deception (18 U.S.C. 1512(b) The second group of offenses within §1512 outlaws obstruction of federal congressional, judicial, or administrative activities by intimidation, threat, corrupt persuasion, or deception, 18 U.S.C. 1512(b). Parsed to its elements, subsection 1512(b) provides that: I. Whoever II. knowingly A. uses intimidation B. threatens, or C. corruptly persuades another person, or D. attempts to do so, or E. 1. engages in misleading conduct60 2. toward another person, III. with intent to A. 1. a. influence, b. delay, orc. prevent 2. the testimony of any person 3. in an official proceeding,61 or B. cause or induce any person to 1. a. i. withhold testimony, or ii. withhold a (I) record, (II) document, or (III) other object, b. from an official proceeding, or 2. a. i. alter, ii. destroy, iii. mutilate, or iv. conceal b. an object c. with intent to impair d. the object’s i. integrity or ii. availability for use e. in an official proceeding, or 3. a. evade b. legal process c. summoning that person i. to appear as a witness, or ii. to produce a (I) record, (II) document, or (III) other object, iii. in an official proceeding, i.e., a (I) federal court proceeding, (II) federal grand jury proceeding, (III) Congressional proceeding, (IV) federal agency proceeding, or (V) proceeding involving the insurance business; or 4. a. be absent b. from an official proceeding, c. to which such person has been summoned by legal process; or C. 1. a. hinder, b. delay, or c. prevent 2. the communication to a a. federal judge or b. federal law enforcement officer62 3. of information relating to the a. commission or b. possible commission of a 4. a. federal offense or b. [a] violation of conditions of i. probation, ii. supervisor release, iii. parole, or iv. release pending judicial proceedings; shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.63 In more general terms, subsection 1512(b) bans (1) knowingly, (2) using one of the prohibited forms of persuasion (intimidation, threat, misleading or corrupt persuasion), (3)(a) with the intent to prevent a witness’s testimony or physical evidence from being truthfully presented at official federal proceedings or (b) with the intent to prevent a witness from cooperating with authorities in a matter relating to a federal offense.64 It also bans any attempt to so intimidate, threaten, or corruptly persuade. 65 The term “corruptly” in the phrase “corruptly persuades” as it appears in subsection 1512(b) has been found to refer to the manner of persuasion,66 the motive for persuasion,67 and the manner of obstruction.68"

Then we have departmental regulations which implicitly directs what shall be done..

You're certainly making a strong case that Trump is guilty of Obstruction - but there's nothing in there that says the Director of the FBI has to report anything to his "superiors".

18 USC 4
Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.​

Comey, at the time, was himself such an individual -- "person in civil or military authority under the United States" -- as stipulated in 18 USC 4. Making case notes (the memo (and others like it) of which we've heard) constitutes such notice having been made. The investigators who would make use of and examine the pertinent particulars the memo(s) relates has been underway since last year. A careful reader will note too that 18 USC 4 does not stipulate that any such notification be made public before, during or after any related investigation into the matter occurs.

You can't report a crime to yourself, you fucking idiot.

 

[bripat9643]

Or

2. You inform the persons who are in legal authority above you who can investigate and prosecute.

You omitted 3. You document it (write a memo) and inform persons who are in legal authority at the FBI below you, who can investigate and prosecute.

A subordinate can not investigate this.. He must go up the chain of command not down it.

Now you're just making this up as you go along.

25 years of investigations.. Not hardly..

Let's take a comparative hypothetical situation, probably closer to your experience.

Let's say the Mayor of Smalltown USA hits some lean times, and decides to mug the Chief of Police in the City Hall parking lot.

Do you believe that the Chief is obligated to inform the Mayor that the Mayor committed a crime?

The law doesn't say the mayor Is required to report a mugging, moron.