Combined Thread: "Solutions" for mass shootings. Gun Control, Mental Health, School Security, etc

  • There is no right to privacy written in COTUS
  • The 4th Amendment protects gun owners from any confiscation of guns without due process
  • Registration of guns is no threat to law abiding citizens
  • Licensing to own or possess a firearm is no threat to law abiding citizens.
  • There is no infringement; only those who fail to obey the law will experience what other law breakers experience.
  • We live in the United States. Our rights to life, liberty and happiness are articulated in the Bill of Rights, and other amendments to COTUS. Yet they are not without conditions: No one has the right to deprive by any means these "unalienable rights".
  • Those who oppose gun controls are allowing others to be deprived of the unalienable rights, and thus are morally culpable of the deaths committed by domestic terrorists.
And no one advocates for 'confiscating' guns.

No just registering so the government knows who has them when they do decide to confiscate them

Half-Truth ^^^. When the government agents decide they have Probable Cause (PC) to secure a warrant, having guns is something all LE is concerned with, for many of us have attended funeral services of men and women murdered by firearms while serving and protecting the community.

It will actually not change the procedure of the police conducting a warrant. Because the cops are smart enough to know that criminals who obtain their weapons illegally, which by the way is most criminals, there will be no record of those guns.

That's true, and no amount of training will prevent a bad guy from killing a good guy. But everyday good guys put themselves in harms way protecting the community in which they serve.

There are few things more dangerous than someone who does not value his or her own life having a gun.
 
  • There is no right to privacy written in COTUS
  • The 4th Amendment protects gun owners from any confiscation of guns without due process
  • Registration of guns is no threat to law abiding citizens
  • Licensing to own or possess a firearm is no threat to law abiding citizens.
  • There is no infringement; only those who fail to obey the law will experience what other law breakers experience.
  • We live in the United States. Our rights to life, liberty and happiness are articulated in the Bill of Rights, and other amendments to COTUS. Yet they are not without conditions: No one has the right to deprive by any means these "unalienable rights".
  • Those who oppose gun controls are allowing others to be deprived of the unalienable rights, and thus are morally culpable of the deaths committed by domestic terrorists.
And no one advocates for 'confiscating' guns.

No just registering so the government knows who has them when they do decide to confiscate them

Half-Truth ^^^. When the government agents decide they have Probable Cause (PC) to secure a warrant, having guns is something all LE is concerned with, for many of us have attended funeral services of men and women murdered by firearms while serving and protecting the community.

It will actually not change the procedure of the police conducting a warrant. Because the cops are smart enough to know that criminals who obtain their weapons illegally, which by the way is most criminals, there will be no record of those guns.

That's true, and no amount of training will prevent a bad guy from killing a good guy. But everyday good guys put themselves in harms way protecting the community in which they serve.

There are few things more dangerous than someone who does not value his or her own life having a gun.

And that is an extreme minority of the population
 
Half-Truth ^^^. When the government agents decide they have Probable Cause (PC) to secure a warrant, having guns is something all LE is concerned with, for many of us have attended funeral services of men and women murdered by firearms while serving and protecting the community.
And yet, in states that have universal registration, pre-checking the gun registry is not part of the SOP for serving a warrant.
Criminals who obtain weapons illegally will not register them

Reckless drivers will obtain cars by theft or purchase and not register them. Which is why a bill of sale will be sent by the seller to the St. Dept of Motor Vehicles. Why should a gun be any different?
 
And no one advocates for 'confiscating' guns.

No just registering so the government knows who has them when they do decide to confiscate them

Half-Truth ^^^. When the government agents decide they have Probable Cause (PC) to secure a warrant, having guns is something all LE is concerned with, for many of us have attended funeral services of men and women murdered by firearms while serving and protecting the community.

It will actually not change the procedure of the police conducting a warrant. Because the cops are smart enough to know that criminals who obtain their weapons illegally, which by the way is most criminals, there will be no record of those guns.

That's true, and no amount of training will prevent a bad guy from killing a good guy. But everyday good guys put themselves in harms way protecting the community in which they serve.

There are few things more dangerous than someone who does not value his or her own life having a gun.

And that is an extreme minority of the population

True, but an extreme which creates very much costs in blood and treasure as we have seen more times this year than days on the calendar. Add in the costs of active shooter training by every policing agency in America, and to businesses, hospitals and schools, as well as the fear of parents and their children when going out in public, the costs of guns far out ways the policies in effect because of the 2nd A.
 
Half-Truth ^^^. When the government agents decide they have Probable Cause (PC) to secure a warrant, having guns is something all LE is concerned with, for many of us have attended funeral services of men and women murdered by firearms while serving and protecting the community.
And yet, in states that have universal registration, pre-checking the gun registry is not part of the SOP for serving a warrant.
Criminals who obtain weapons illegally will not register them
Reckless drivers will obtain cars by theft or purchase and not register them. Which is why a bill of sale will be sent by the seller to the St. Dept of Motor Vehicles. Why should a gun be any different?
Look at you, trying to get someone to argue against a position you know you cannot support.
You cannot demonstrate the necessity for, or the efficacy of, universal gun registration.
 
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No just registering so the government knows who has them when they do decide to confiscate them

Half-Truth ^^^. When the government agents decide they have Probable Cause (PC) to secure a warrant, having guns is something all LE is concerned with, for many of us have attended funeral services of men and women murdered by firearms while serving and protecting the community.

It will actually not change the procedure of the police conducting a warrant. Because the cops are smart enough to know that criminals who obtain their weapons illegally, which by the way is most criminals, there will be no record of those guns.

That's true, and no amount of training will prevent a bad guy from killing a good guy. But everyday good guys put themselves in harms way protecting the community in which they serve.

There are few things more dangerous than someone who does not value his or her own life having a gun.

And that is an extreme minority of the population

True, but an extreme which creates very much costs in blood and treasure as we have seen more times this year than days on the calendar. Add in the costs of active shooter training by every policing agency in America, and to businesses, hospitals and schools, as well as the fear of parents and their children when going out in public, the costs of guns far out ways the policies in effect because of the 2nd A.
It's an irrational fear.

The numbers tell us that.

.0027% of guns that are in the hands of the public are used in murders.

.003% of the population are murdered with guns on an annual basis

so you have a 99.997% chance of not being murdered with a gun in any one year

It seems to me that people who fear being murdered by someone with a gun are the paranoid ones, not gun owners as it is so often stated here
 

I had a coach in high school. He lost his temper, and decked a student bigger than he was, breaking his nose and giving him a concussion. Would someone like him be allowed to carry a gun, too?
They're supposed to go by that alone ?:auiqs.jpg: :dig:


The only gun debate is why am I not allowed to buy a factory fresh brand spanking new fully automatic military spec assault rifle....

My human rights are being violated
 
Half-Truth ^^^. When the government agents decide they have Probable Cause (PC) to secure a warrant, having guns is something all LE is concerned with, for many of us have attended funeral services of men and women murdered by firearms while serving and protecting the community.
And yet, in states that have universal registration, pre-checking the gun registry is not part of the SOP for serving a warrant.
Criminals who obtain weapons illegally will not register them

Reckless drivers will obtain cars by theft or purchase and not register them. Which is why a bill of sale will be sent by the seller to the St. Dept of Motor Vehicles. Why should a gun be any different?
/—-/ Because owning a car is not a right, owning a gun is.
 
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Right on Cue: Liberals Demand Gun Control After Florida School Shooting
Prominent liberals on Twitter are once again calling for gun control following the tragic shooting at a Florida High School that left as many as 17 dead.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well we saw this coming , they already started it on here. Leftist gun grabbers are the dumbest sob's with no logic, nor common sense.
They are to dumb to take lessons from other Countries who have stripped their gun rights away....... Oh they're so safe now never a murder, no way to defend themselves why the immigrants are able to rape them really nice and easy because why they have nothing to protect themselves with making them the perfect weakling and weak minded fks.


Under the guise of stopping “gun violence” and “genocide,” a fringe County Commissioner in Cook County, Illinois, went to New York City to request that the United Nations deploy “peacekeeping” troops in Chicago.
Chicago Politician Requests Child-raping UN Troops ... in America





 
Half-Truth ^^^. When the government agents decide they have Probable Cause (PC) to secure a warrant, having guns is something all LE is concerned with, for many of us have attended funeral services of men and women murdered by firearms while serving and protecting the community.
And yet, in states that have universal registration, pre-checking the gun registry is not part of the SOP for serving a warrant.
Criminals who obtain weapons illegally will not register them

Reckless drivers will obtain cars by theft or purchase and not register them. Which is why a bill of sale will be sent by the seller to the St. Dept of Motor Vehicles. Why should a gun be any different?


Cars are not a Right. We have a secret Ballot for voting.....owning a gun is no different. We know from history that governments will use a list of gun owners to confiscate those guns before they persecute the owners......that persecution has been up to and including mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing...

That's why.

It is hard for anti-gunners like you to commit mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing if your victims can shoot back...which is always the reason you guys want gun registration first.....
 
No just registering so the government knows who has them when they do decide to confiscate them

Half-Truth ^^^. When the government agents decide they have Probable Cause (PC) to secure a warrant, having guns is something all LE is concerned with, for many of us have attended funeral services of men and women murdered by firearms while serving and protecting the community.

It will actually not change the procedure of the police conducting a warrant. Because the cops are smart enough to know that criminals who obtain their weapons illegally, which by the way is most criminals, there will be no record of those guns.

That's true, and no amount of training will prevent a bad guy from killing a good guy. But everyday good guys put themselves in harms way protecting the community in which they serve.

There are few things more dangerous than someone who does not value his or her own life having a gun.

And that is an extreme minority of the population

True, but an extreme which creates very much costs in blood and treasure as we have seen more times this year than days on the calendar. Add in the costs of active shooter training by every policing agency in America, and to businesses, hospitals and schools, as well as the fear of parents and their children when going out in public, the costs of guns far out ways the policies in effect because of the 2nd A.


Gun murder has gone down again.......FBI stats show that violent crime and gun murder went down, not up last year...so you have no real argument......and over the last 26 years gun murder, gun crime and violent crime have gone down as more Americans own and carry guns.....so your post isn't even true or accurate....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2018...

Gun.....10,265 ... (2017...11,006....2016, 11,138)

Rifle......297 ( 2017... 403)

knives, 1,515

Blunt objects.... 443

hands and feet... 672

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
 
No just registering so the government knows who has them when they do decide to confiscate them

Half-Truth ^^^. When the government agents decide they have Probable Cause (PC) to secure a warrant, having guns is something all LE is concerned with, for many of us have attended funeral services of men and women murdered by firearms while serving and protecting the community.

It will actually not change the procedure of the police conducting a warrant. Because the cops are smart enough to know that criminals who obtain their weapons illegally, which by the way is most criminals, there will be no record of those guns.

That's true, and no amount of training will prevent a bad guy from killing a good guy. But everyday good guys put themselves in harms way protecting the community in which they serve.

There are few things more dangerous than someone who does not value his or her own life having a gun.

And that is an extreme minority of the population

True, but an extreme which creates very much costs in blood and treasure as we have seen more times this year than days on the calendar. Add in the costs of active shooter training by every policing agency in America, and to businesses, hospitals and schools, as well as the fear of parents and their children when going out in public, the costs of guns far out ways the policies in effect because of the 2nd A.


And you are wrong on this too....

Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct


that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—less some attackers who lost their lives to defenders. This enormous benefit dwarfs, both in human and economic terms, the losses trumpeted by hoplophobes who only choose to see the risk side of the equation.




==============

Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.
--------
It’s one of the antis’ favorite tricks: cost benefit analysis omitting the benefit side of the equation. So what are the financial benefits of firearm ownership to society? Read on . . .
In my post Dennis Henigan on Chardon: Clockwork Edition, I did an analysis of how many lives were saved annually in Defensive Gun Uses (DGUs). I used extremely conservative numbers. Now I am going to use some less conservative ones.
--------------
How can we get a dollar figure from 1.88 million defensive gun uses per year? Never fear, faithful reader, we can count on the .gov to calculate everything.
According to the AZ state government, in February of 2008 a human life was worth $6.5 million. Going to the Inflation Calculator and punching in the numbers gives us a present value of $6.93 million.
So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.
Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.
I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.
When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”
Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”
So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.
 
Half-Truth ^^^. When the government agents decide they have Probable Cause (PC) to secure a warrant, having guns is something all LE is concerned with, for many of us have attended funeral services of men and women murdered by firearms while serving and protecting the community.

It will actually not change the procedure of the police conducting a warrant. Because the cops are smart enough to know that criminals who obtain their weapons illegally, which by the way is most criminals, there will be no record of those guns.

That's true, and no amount of training will prevent a bad guy from killing a good guy. But everyday good guys put themselves in harms way protecting the community in which they serve.

There are few things more dangerous than someone who does not value his or her own life having a gun.

And that is an extreme minority of the population

True, but an extreme which creates very much costs in blood and treasure as we have seen more times this year than days on the calendar. Add in the costs of active shooter training by every policing agency in America, and to businesses, hospitals and schools, as well as the fear of parents and their children when going out in public, the costs of guns far out ways the policies in effect because of the 2nd A.


Gun murder has gone down again.......FBI stats show that violent crime and gun murder went down, not up last year...so you have no real argument......and over the last 26 years gun murder, gun crime and violent crime have gone down as more Americans own and carry guns.....so your post isn't even true or accurate....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2018...

Gun.....10,265 ... (2017...11,006....2016, 11,138)

Rifle......297 ( 2017... 403)

knives, 1,515

Blunt objects.... 443

hands and feet... 672

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
Knives kill far more people in the United States than rifles do every year.

In the wake of the horrific school shooting in Florida last week, the debate over guns in America has surged again to the forefront oft the political conversation. Seventeen students were killed when a deranged gunman rampaged through the Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland Florida. Many are calling now for stricter gun laws in the wake of the shooting, specifically targeting the AR-15 rifle and promoting the reinstatement of the assault weapons ban. FBI Stats Show Knives Kill Far More People Than Rifles In America – It’s Not Even Close

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th
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Half-Truth ^^^. When the government agents decide they have Probable Cause (PC) to secure a warrant, having guns is something all LE is concerned with, for many of us have attended funeral services of men and women murdered by firearms while serving and protecting the community.
And yet, in states that have universal registration, pre-checking the gun registry is not part of the SOP for serving a warrant.
Criminals who obtain weapons illegally will not register them

Reckless drivers will obtain cars by theft or purchase and not register them. Which is why a bill of sale will be sent by the seller to the St. Dept of Motor Vehicles. Why should a gun be any different?
/—-/ Because owning a car is not a right, owning a gun is.

Statement: "Because owning a car is not a right, owning a gun is"

Response: Not all rights in the Bill of Rights are unlimited. Scalia spelled that out in Heller, and laws to restrict certain Felons, those who have been detained as a danger to themselves or others, do not have that Right.
 

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