Class warfare?

[JakeStarkey]

For a family of four, the guidelines are $23,050. http://coverageforall.org/pdf/FHCE_FedPovertyLevel.pdf

Libertarianism, to remind folks, is the flip side of communism. The first dominates the masses through a "society of equals" (think the elite in "Hunger Games"), the latter dominates the masses through a society of elite cadres. Thus, you can have domination by elite individuals or elite cadres.

The overwhelming majority of self-professed Libertarians on this board would be part of the oppressed masses in a libertarian world. They are the victims the true libertarians are looking for.

 

[expat_panama]

...Wages don't directly affect sales of goods and services. They are a factor, but not the complete problem. So, the fact is that corporations are enjoying record profits in 2011 and 2012. Don't believe me. Not my idea. Just google record profits...

That can yield a mountain of loony left rants, but the actual corporate profit balances are compiled by the BEA. They show--

--employee compensation soaring eight times higher than profits, taxes at an all time high, and profits still faltering after taking the burden of the hit in '09.

 

[Widdekind]

For a family of four, the guidelines are $23,050...

Libertarianism... dominates the masses through a society of elite cadres

First, Apple pays workers $25K / year, enough to support a family of four, on one jobs from Apple. That's "bad" ?

Second, how would a "elite cadre" dominate anybody, under Libertarianism ? To dominate means to be able to coerce people against their will. Libertarianism means "live & let live", and has nothing to do, with "elite cadres" controlling Government, or some such. You speak of Fascism, not Libertarianism.

Fascism = "white collars ganging up against blue collars" (economic civil war)
Communism = "blue collars ganging up against white collars" (economic civil war)

Libertarianism = "quit griping to government, and get back to fair, honest, earnest, competitive business & work" (can't we all get along?)​

If nobody has tried Libertarianism, since Rockefellar's Standard Oil Company; then nobody can claim, that what they haven't tried, doesn't work. "i didn't test-drive the car, but i know it's a lemon anyway" is bogus.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Widdekind has trouble understanding that Apple's $25K job for a family of four is less thanm $2K above poverty, and obviously has no idea of reality.

Widdekind has trouble understanding that the elite cadre pertains to communism, while the 'society of equals' to libertarianism, its cousin.

Note how he has altered my material from #41 above. "Libertarianism, to remind folks, is the flip side of communism. The first dominates the masses through a 'society of equals' (think the elite in "Hunger Games"), the latter dominates the masses through a society of elite cadres. Thus, you can have domination by elite individuals or elite cadres."

For a family of four, the guidelines are $23,050...Libertarianism... dominates the masses through a society of elite cadres

First, Apple pays workers $25K / year, enough to support a family of four, on one jobs from Apple. That's "bad" ? Second, how would a "elite cadre" dominate anybody, under Libertarianism ? To dominate means to be able to coerce people against their will. Libertarianism means "live & let live", and has nothing to do, with "elite cadres" controlling Government, or some such. You speak of Fascism, not Libertarianism.

Fascism = "white collars ganging up against blue collars" (economic civil war) Communism = "blue collars ganging up against white collars" (economic civil war) Libertarianism = "quit griping to government, and get back to fair, honest, earnest, competitive business & work" (can't we all get along?)​

If nobody has tried Libertarianism, since Rockefellar's Standard Oil Company; then nobody can claim, that what they haven't tried, doesn't work. "i didn't test-drive the car, but i know it's a lemon anyway" is bogus.

 

[Widdekind]

Wages don't directly affect sales of goods and services. They are a factor

in total (over all businesses), wages & salaries are the largest single cost. Yes, all costs affect final prices; the biggest cost (affecting final prices) is workers.

Adjusting for inflation, since 1960, total real wages (2005 USD) have increased by $4T; profits after tax by $1T:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=8ve​

Until Pres. Bush the younger, corporate profits after tax averaged ten cents on every dollar of workers' wages. Under Bush, corporate taxes fell; they got to keep more of their money; up to twenty cents on workers' dollars. US businesses still pay out nearly five dollars to workers, for every one they keep.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=8vg​

the wealthy are getting more wealthy by huge amounts (275% over the past 30 years, compared to workers increases of around 17%) and yet you believe the problem is with the workers. The wealthiest 400 Americans have the same combined wealth as the poorest half of Americans -- over 150 million people.

complaining about O.P.M. is not legitimate. Economics is about making money. If everybody complains about everybody else making money; then nobody makes anything; everybody winds up poor. Their money is their business. It only becomes your business, if they make it such -- if Lee Iacocca hires somebody to key your car, or puncture your tires; then his money would be your problem; and you "ought" to be able to sue him. But if he goes golfing, nobody else "should" be able to complain.

for every one Lee Iacocca or Bill Gates you "gripe" about; i could complain about millions of poor people world-wide. If you get to say "Lee Iacocca", for earning more than you; then you have to wait, for forever and a day, whilst i say the names, of millions of poor people around the world, who earn much less than you do. That gets us nowhere. You earn as much as you can; everybody else earns as much as they can; that's as good as life gets.

the rules:

• lead (build a business)
• follow (work hard)
• take the day off

otherwise, what are the (real) rules, "nobody makes more money than me" ?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Treat your workers as cash cows, as buyers of your products and goods and services, by paying them, good wages and salaries, and you will succeed without any problem, if you are producing goods and services and products that compete in quality and durability.

Drop the 19th century nonsensical arguments, Widdekind, and you will contribute to a durable and admirable culture.

Yeah, you are part of a social compact in America, friend.

 

[Widdekind]

Treat your workers as cash cows, as buyers of your products and goods and services, by paying them, good wages and salaries...

i'm not sure i understand -- the only alternative, to Libertarian fair wages, is "unfair" slave labor. "Hey, man, that guy will do your job, for less -- what do you want from me?" is not the same, as "guns pointed at peoples' heads". Workers demanding guaranteed-high wages is economically identical, to businesses demanding no-bid contracts. Neither is competitive; both are intrinsically anti-competitive.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Treat your workers as cash cows, as buyers of your products and goods and services, by paying them, good wages and salaries,

our high wages are costing us jobs by the millions as it is. It stands to reason that a liberal would figure even higher wages is even better!!

Why not look at China. In 1985 they bought 5000 cars, today they buy 18 million/year. It is greatest Republican capitalist miracle in human history and done on what a brain dead liberal sees as low low low wages!!

 

[rightwinger]

Treat your workers as cash cows, as buyers of your products and goods and services, by paying them, good wages and salaries,

our high wages are costing us jobs by the millions as it is. It stands to reason that a liberal would figure even higher wages is even better!!

Why not look at China. In 1985 they bought 5000 cars, today they buy 18 million/year. It is greatest Republican capitalist miracle in human history and done on what a brain dead liberal sees as low low low wages!!

Our "high wages" do not allow workers to buy homes, send their kids to college or buy healthcare

Meanwhile, CEOs make hundred times more than the average worker. How much do your Republican Chinese CEOs make?

 

[Rshermr]

Treat your workers as cash cows, as buyers of your products and goods and services, by paying them, good wages and salaries,

our high wages are costing us jobs by the millions as it is. It stands to reason that a liberal would figure even higher wages is even better!!

Why not look at China. In 1985 they bought 5000 cars, today they buy 18 million/year. It is greatest Republican capitalist miracle in human history and done on what a brain dead liberal sees as low low low wages!!

Here is the test, ed. How much does a chinese resident pay if he wants to buy a jeep Cherokee?

So, are you suggesting that the us middle class should live like the average Chinese citizen?
How about us ceo's? They are paid 250 to 475 times as much as the average us worker, depending on which poll you believe.
Nice tea party talking points, as always, ed. you are always for the wealthy, always against the lower classes. Always predictable.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Edward does not care or give a flying flip about the quality of life in America for workers.

He has no problem with them living like Chinese laborers.

AS LONG AS . . . he gets to use the economic system to take all the money he possibly can in any way he can.

Edward has a gangster mentality.

 

[JoeNormal]

Treat your workers as cash cows, as buyers of your products and goods and services, by paying them, good wages and salaries,

our high wages are costing us jobs by the millions as it is. It stands to reason that a liberal would figure even higher wages is even better!!

Why not look at China. In 1985 they bought 5000 cars, today they buy 18 million/year. It is greatest Republican capitalist miracle in human history and done on what a brain dead liberal sees as low low low wages!!

At that rate, it'll only take about 80 years for everyone to own a car. Do you have any idea of the working conditions over there? Ever had a shit job yourself? I'd be interested to know what kind of a gig you have right now.

Would you really like to live in a world like the one you seem to advocate?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Treat your workers as cash cows, as buyers of your products and goods and services, by paying them, good wages and salaries,

our high wages are costing us jobs by the millions as it is. It stands to reason that a liberal would figure even higher wages is even better!!

Why not look at China. In 1985 they bought 5000 cars, today they buy 18 million/year. It is greatest Republican capitalist miracle in human history and done on what a brain dead liberal sees as low low low wages!!

At that rate, it'll only take about 80 years for everyone to own a car. Do you have any idea of the working conditions over there? Ever had a shit job yourself? I'd be interested to know what kind of a gig you have right now.

Would you really like to live in a world like the one you seem to advocate?

Edward is a student in the 10th grade.

 

[JoeNormal]

our high wages are costing us jobs by the millions as it is. It stands to reason that a liberal would figure even higher wages is even better!!

Why not look at China. In 1985 they bought 5000 cars, today they buy 18 million/year. It is greatest Republican capitalist miracle in human history and done on what a brain dead liberal sees as low low low wages!!

At that rate, it'll only take about 80 years for everyone to own a car. Do you have any idea of the working conditions over there? Ever had a shit job yourself? I'd be interested to know what kind of a gig you have right now.

Would you really like to live in a world like the one you seem to advocate?

Edward is a student in the 10th grade.

Thanks, I had to wonder. I'll stop beating up on him.

 

[Rshermr]

our high wages are costing us jobs by the millions as it is. It stands to reason that a liberal would figure even higher wages is even better!!

Why not look at China. In 1985 they bought 5000 cars, today they buy 18 million/year. It is greatest Republican capitalist miracle in human history and done on what a brain dead liberal sees as low low low wages!!

At that rate, it'll only take about 80 years for everyone to own a car. Do you have any idea of the working conditions over there? Ever had a shit job yourself? I'd be interested to know what kind of a gig you have right now.

Would you really like to live in a world like the one you seem to advocate?

Edward is a student in the 10th grade.

Jake, no room for outright lies here. Ed never made it to 10th grade. It only takes a trained monkey about a year to be able to parrot tea party dogma.

 

[Widdekind]

Our "high wages" do not allow workers to buy homes...

So, are you suggesting that the us middle class should live like the average Chinese citizen? How about us ceo's? They are paid 250 to 475 times as much as the average us worker...

wages & salaries cost money, and hike prices. Everybody could be more economically competitive. Neither single-family homes, nor Ferraris, are "necessary entitlements"

 

[JakeStarkey]

Widdekind, I see you are back. The middle class consumers drive the economy not the owners and managers. Grow a healthy middle class and everyone does well.

 

[Widdekind]

Widdekind, I see you are back. The middle class consumers drive the economy not the owners and managers. Grow a healthy middle class and everyone does well.

how can you claim bosses have more money; and then claim they don't contribute to the economy? they may not buy more groceries, but they spend their money (on other things) all the same. who would have construction jobs, without home buyers? nobody who has money burns it, wall-papers their house with it, or lets it sit around. they spend the money, one way or another, and the money flows back into the economy, albeit from "a different direction".

grow a healthy middle class, and everybody who caters to their consumption does well; but wealthy golfers hire more caddies (say). there are always jobs

 

[mudwhistle]

Corporate executives have been playing the card "Things are tough everyone needs to make sacrifices" while they raise executive pay and dividends. Workers are making do with less while corporate eats the profit

When speaking of the economy, JFK once said "A rising tide lifts all boats"

Conservatives have worked the system so that the rising economic tide only lifts the yachts

Why don't you just murder the rich in their beds then.




BTW, most conservatives are in the middle-class......loser.

 

[JakeStarkey]

2 out of every 3 dollars are spent by the every day middle class consumers. You can look it up. Lincoln was quite correct in saying that labor precedes capital; capital can't survive without labor, where as labor can survive without capital.

Widdekind, I see you are back. The middle class consumers drive the economy not the owners and managers. Grow a healthy middle class and everyone does well.

how can you claim bosses have more money; and then claim they don't contribute to the economy? they may not buy more groceries, but they spend their money (on other things) all the same. who would have construction jobs, without home buyers? nobody who has money burns it, wall-papers their house with it, or lets it sit around. they spend the money, one way or another, and the money flows back into the economy, albeit from "a different direction".

grow a healthy middle class, and everybody who caters to their consumption does well; but wealthy golfers hire more caddies (say). there are always jobs