Christianity In America

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Cammmpbell, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. Cammmpbell
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    Cammmpbell Senior Member

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    The story of religion in America is fascinating. Our forebears believed in "a god of nature" and said as much in their early writings. They were not Christians because there's not a word about Jesus or the new testament in the declaration or constitution. President Adams signed the treaty with Tripoli in which article 11 stated, "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

    The zealous Christians made their moves during trying and uneasy times in the nation. Amidst a bloody civil war with nearly every family seeing the death of a member or someone close to them the zealots demanded that "In God We Trust" be minted onto our coins. During the cold war era when school children were taught to "Take Cover" beneath their desks in case of a nuclear attack the McCarthyites added "Under God" to our pledge of allegiance and added "In God We Trust" to our currency.

    School children were openly taught the god concept all across the nation. One might have thought that someone(or most) might have spoken out as this lunacy continued. The preachers dared not because they would have been driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dared not because they would have lost their salaries. Politicians dared not...they would have been defeated. Editors dared not...they would have lost subscribers. Merchants dared not because they might have lost customers. Clerks and Butchers dared not because they might have been discharged. Ancient god worship has been repeated to each new generation and reinforced by authority figures ever since primitive times. Brainwashing of the young is the most effective way to spread a lie. The cannibals taught the consumption of human flesh as a religious ritual for thousands of years and even when they stopped it was because of being brainwashed with a new religion, Christianity.

    Thank goodness I've lived long enough to witness the beginning of the end of the practice of ancient god worship. All polls show that most are beginning to see the light. During my lifetime things have changed so much that it's remarkable how small a percentage of our population feel obliged to attend a church...even once a month. This practice is one which would have been a reason for the death penalty during old testament times. There were forty two death penalty sins spelled out in the old testament....several for violating rules on the sabbath....even the gathering of firewood. I was brainwashed as a small child and tried to live the church life for nearly forty years till I was in my sixties before I decided to "come out." I'm "agnostic," though it be "militant agnostic."
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  2. PratchettFan
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    PratchettFan Gold Member

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    I too am an agnostic. However, I don't think we are witnessing the end of the practice of ancient god worship. I tend to think when that truly happens we will no longer be the people we currently are. Religion is like government, an inherent factor in our societies. It need not be in any individual life, just as government need not be, but all human societies since the beginning of our history - at least above the level of small clan - has had religion as an intrinsic part of the social matrix. I see nothing which indicates to me any change in that fact. It will evolve as societies evolve, but that won't change what it is. Just how it operates.
     
  3. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    The God of Nature is the Lord.
     
  4. PratchettFan
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    PratchettFan Gold Member

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    Perhaps. But that has nothing to do with religion.
     
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  5. Cammmpbell
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    Cammmpbell Senior Member

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    Well....whatever floats one's boat. Personally rising from a grave, joining a ghost floating on a cloud then flying off to paradise to live forever while those who disagree with one's belief roast in a pit sounds more rediculous to me than the Roman and Greek gods of ancient times. The idea that our government copied anything from the bible to use as guidelines amuses me. I know if the millions who have been slaughtered by Christians had a vote in the matter they would surely retire the entire concept. After preaching hundreds of millions if not billions of fire and brimstone sermons hell is no longer hot.
    The church body as a whole is opportunistic. For a thousand years they required infant baptism but when the public rejected the "born in sin" concept and began to stay away they ignored their previous position and avoided all the scripture it was based on. They get real interested when donations begin to falter.The scripture is still there.
    For thousands of years the church hunted down, tortured and killed innocent young women for practicing witchcraft. Now that we all know there's no such thing as a witch they have shut up about it...the scripture is still there.
    For more than 4000 years the church tolerated slavery and sometimes accomodated it. When one human owning another was no longer a fad or socially acceptable the church shut up about it and they never preach about it at all. All the scripture about slaves obeying their masters etc. is still in the bible but one never hears a word about it from the church.
    Nothing is new about all this...the church is presently in the process of distancing itself
    from the flame and heat concept for one reason and one reason only...it doesn't work any more. Most people, regardless of what they say in public, are no longer "AFRAID" of god. They live their lives in the most convenient and comfortable way they can.
    The bible's message is two fold and what's happening in the modern society is that at least half of it is being ignored by both the church and it's members. Any negative scripture or any negative thoughts are basically ignored and in addition to that all the sermons which used to be hell fire and brimstone in nature are now carefully worded and slanted toward hell being the absence from god and his angels. Just another desperate ploy attempting to maintain attendance and donations.
    While the church has amassed enormous wealth all over the world youngsters by the hundreds of millions have starved to death. The church is failing. The statistics all over the world are mind boggling and even here in the "Christian Nation" the number of folks who claim no religious affiliation whatsoever has doubled in the last twenty years. The Internet/social media will put the finishing touches on it.
     
  6. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    How do you figure?
     
  7. PratchettFan
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    PratchettFan Gold Member

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    And yet religion remains a central aspect of our society and shows no signs of stopping. Everything you have just said could also be said about government and it too shows no sign of leaving us. You seem to relate religion with a particular set of beliefs, but that is nothing more than the cultural veneer. Religion is not about belief, it only mirrors the beliefs of the society in which it exists. Religion is about belonging.
     
  8. PratchettFan
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    PratchettFan Gold Member

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    Because religion has never had anything to do with any god. It is, and has always been, an entirely human thing. Gods come and go, but religion is always there absorbing whatever beliefs there might be.
     
  9. TNHarley
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    TNHarley Gold Member

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    And they all seem to be very similar.. HHMMMM
     
  10. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist Supporting Member

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    Dear Cammmpbell: There are a wide range of Christian denomination and beliefs; ranging from the Universal Salvations who include all people and all tribes, to Zionists who wage war and believe in violent Armageddon is inevitable for Christ to come, to those who do not even recognize other Christians as Christians, etc.

    I believe the Gentiles under Natural Law, like Jefferson who believed in God of Nature,
    can be considered Christians where they live by Restorative Justice which is a secular name for Jesus. As Wisdom, Love and Truth are also nontheistic names for God.

    During the founding of America and especially pointed out in the fight over slavery, there has always been a distinction between the right and the left, where the Quakers were the Christians who were anti-war and anti-slavery.

    So big FU deal. The same God can be expressed and understood by both religious/scriptural laws and by secular/natural laws.

    Cammmpbell, just because you don't believe these can be under the same God and Christ
    doesn't make you the judge of who is really Christian or not. What if Jefferson was acting as the real Christian
    and the people claiming to be Christians were actually antichrist? It could be the complete opposite of what you think.

    The same issues are going on today. People are judging what is really Christian and what is false religion,
    based on labels or appearances, vs. what is correct in spirit with the duty, faith and commitment of believers in Christ.

    Even Jesus said things in the Bible such as
    * the parable of the Good Samaritan who turned out to be the true neighbor lending charity for Jesus sake
    but the Samaritans were considered unholy outcasts and were rejected as not of the proper faith
    * the Gentiles whom Jesus governs as sheep in a separate fold of the same flock
    * these Gentiles who by their conscience do the things contained in the law
    * Jews and Gentiles being one in Christ Jesus (who fulfills both the sacred laws of the churched and natural laws of secular gentiles)

    I don't blame you for being confused, because the same confusion goes on today.
    I have friends who are atheist gentiles but who live by the spirit of Christ Jesus which they call peace and justice.
    I have friends who believe in the Bible and believe they are following Christ, but act and judge by retributive justice which is antichrist. So how can you tell who is representing the real Christ with the appearance and words, action and spirit not matching up?

    It is very fascinating indeed to see this played out until we reach a resolution and agreement on laws and meaning of God and Jesus.

    It's good and healthy to question, but be careful not to set your assumptions on the opposite scenario, thinking you are correcting the problem. Two wrongs don't make a right. Rejecting one extreme of thought for the other extreme is equally faulty and causes the same problems. The real universal truth, by definition, would satisfy all views; so as long as there is disagreement, we are not there yet. You are right to question and seek consistent answers in the meantime, in order to further and finish this process.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012

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