Christianity In America

[emilynghiem]

More than likely because I was brainwashed as a child and lived the church way until I was over sixty years old. I won't quit until that shit is on the way out. I love the Internet. It will put the marker on the tombstone of ancient god worship.

I'm agnostic.......I don't know and you don't either. All religion was established because mankind cannot accept his mortality. He somehow sees himself as immortal. He's one of millions of species which has lungs, brain, heart, bowel, bladder, etc. has to take on nutrition and extrude waste each day in very simillar fashion and wiped on his hands till the Asians invented paper along about 100BC. Even then average humans had no access to it so the masses contimued to clean themselves on their hands for centuries. Anyone who fails to see the almost exact replication of life among species is either very naive or has blocked the facts from their mind.

Dear C:
1. Thank you for being honest and open about why you are so reactionary and against false religion. It's ironic that you cannot see that is the same motivation of many other religious followers, to identify and attack false religion instead of solving the actual problems.

2. It is funny that you can see the similarity between people and other species, but you cannot see how you are similar to people who follow religions.

You believe you have the answers, you know the truth.
And the people or beliefs you deem as teaching otherwise, you want to wipe out.
How are you any different, Cammmpbell, as another human being doing the same thing!

If anything you could be worse than the believers like me who DON'T seek to conquer or destroy, but seek to correct the problems causing people to fear and attach each other.

If you are trying to fight fire with fire, the point of that is to realize futility and give it up.
If you are honestly trying to get rid of religious fires, you won't achieve that by starting your own, and following the same patterns and mechanisms as the people you oppose.

This conflict, Cammmpbell is what fuels religions.
You frame it as an issue of "immortality vs. mortality,"
but it boils down to "them vs. us." Collective forces outside man's control vs. individual
will. And blaming the problem outside of ourselves, not recognizing we are part of the same.

We cannot escape the problems in religion because you and I have the same conflicts.
We may express them differently, but the patterns of denial and projection are the same.
We are human beings, we learn by experience, by trial and error and comparisons and relations with others, so this is just part of the learning curve we are all participating in.

Thank you again for being as honest as you are.
I believe with the commitment you have to get rid of false religion,
in order to achieve that goal you will come to be as honest about the
faults of others as of yourself, and see that we are all in the same boat together.

That is what it means for us to be equal as humans.

Thanks, Cammmpbell

Press on with your committed purpose of getting rid of all false religion, teaching and thoughts/beliefs, including any misperceptions you may have in the process that would equally benefit from correction in order to achieve your lofty and noble goals!

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[PratchettFan]

LMAO!!!!

Gawd works in mysterious ways. What you're saying is that it happened and he doesn't give a damn.....some god. Like George Carlin said, "An Intern With A Bad Attitude Could Have Done A Better Job!"

You may be laughing. What I find amusing is people who want to blame problems on a being they claim they don't believe exists. You might as well be angry with Santa Claus for not getting the presents you wanted.

I don't believe any part of the ancient babblings. I was merely stating the obvious.

Then why blame something that doesn't exist? How can something that doesn't exist not give a damn? How do you do a better job than something that doesn't exist? If you don't believe it, why is it such a major factor for you? You seem awfully invested in these ancient babblings.

My point was that all of the violence had nothing to do with God. It was all done by people. If you don't believe in this God, why exactly would you consider that statement funny? If it wasn't the people doing it, what was?

 

[PratchettFan]

You are certainly free to say that. However, I would disagree. I see absolutely nothing in Christianity which is different than any other religion. You have an organized priesthood which establishes a set of rules, which is to believed upon pain of pain. Aside from the name of the deity and minor variations in rituals and rules, you might as well be worshipping Ra.

As I said, once you remove the fluff, all religion is essentially the same. That is because there is one constant in religion.... human beings.

1. If you are talking about the external physical institutions and cultural practices, you would be right that these are for social organization like any other group.

2. However, if you read books like "Glimpses of the Devil" by Scott Peck or "Healing" by Francis MacNutt, you might understand how Christian healing prayer, for forgiveness of emotional, mental and spiritual blocks, has helped people to heal their minds and bodies of things that medicine could not achieve alone.

So by replicating the methods and studies in these books, you could see how it is true that praying in agreement and authority of Christ Jesus is able to influence factors that no other approach can do by itself. Even the practictioners I have heard of using Buddhist past life karma to trace the causes of people's mental issues still use Christian prayer to heal these conditions once they are identified.

I have not heard of other ways of curing demonic voices and obsessions permanently except for Christian methods of deliverance and exorcism. The medications can placate or dull down the symptoms but can't remove them or the cause. And the other methods of trying to use wicca or sorcery to will away the effects of negative spiritual factors tend to make these worse by adding to the manipulation of the affected person's mind instead of curing and freeing them of the negative conditions on their mental health and relations with others.

See also Dr. Phillip Goldfedder's website Healing Is Yours
where he found spiritual therapy to be superior and more cost-effective than his
neurosurgeon profession that he put aside to help more people full time by these methods.

When nothing else works, as with the schizophrenic patients that Dr. Peck treated and documented as the basis of his book, the prayer process for spiritual forgiveness and healing has been able to save people's minds and lives from conditions they had no control over, where some patients were too sick mentally to even administer treatment until AFTER they underwent the exorcism and deliverance process to identify and remove the causes.

I agree with Dr. Peck, who advocated for other psychiatric and medical professionals to take this field seriously, and pursue formal research and development in order to cure people.

I am talking about the institutions.

Is there Christian healing? Yep. And Islamic healing, Hindu healing, Buddhist healing, Zen healing, and on and on. Nothing new there. There has been a lot of work on this idea, including exentsive study in placebos.

Is there something in the background going on? Maybe. I don't know and, to be honet, I don't really care. If there is a God then it clearly has no desire for direct contact. So why bother it? YMMV, of course.

 

[TNHarley]

More than likely because I was brainwashed as a child and lived the church way until I was over sixty years old. I won't quit until that shit is on the way out. I love the Internet. It will put the marker on the tombstone of ancient god worship.

I'm agnostic.......I don't know and you don't either. All religion was established because mankind cannot accept his mortality. He somehow sees himself as immortal. He's one of millions of species which has lungs, brain, heart, bowel, bladder, etc. has to take on nutrition and extrude waste each day in very simillar fashion and wiped on his hands till the Asians invented paper along about 100BC. Even then average humans had no access to it so the masses contimued to clean themselves on their hands for centuries. Anyone who fails to see the almost exact replication of life among species is either very naive or has blocked the facts from their mind.

Dear C:
1. Thank you for being honest and open about why you are so reactionary and against false religion. It's ironic that you cannot see that is the same motivation of many other religious followers, to identify and attack false religion instead of solving the actual problems.

2. It is funny that you can see the similarity between people and other species, but you cannot see how you are similar to people who follow religions.

You believe you have the answers, you know the truth.
And the people or beliefs you deem as teaching otherwise, you want to wipe out.
How are you any different, Cammmpbell, as another human being doing the same thing!

If anything you could be worse than the believers like me who DON'T seek to conquer or destroy, but seek to correct the problems causing people to fear and attach each other.

If you are trying to fight fire with fire, the point of that is to realize futility and give it up.
If you are honestly trying to get rid of religious fires, you won't achieve that by starting your own, and following the same patterns and mechanisms as the people you oppose.

This conflict, Cammmpbell is what fuels religions.
You frame it as an issue of "immortality vs. mortality,"
but it boils down to "them vs. us." Collective forces outside man's control vs. individual
will. And blaming the problem outside of ourselves, not recognizing we are part of the same.

We cannot escape the problems in religion because you and I have the same conflicts.
We may express them differently, but the patterns of denial and projection are the same.
We are human beings, we learn by experience, by trial and error and comparisons and relations with others, so this is just part of the learning curve we are all participating in.

Thank you again for being as honest as you are.
I believe with the commitment you have to get rid of false religion,
in order to achieve that goal you will come to be as honest about the
faults of others as of yourself, and see that we are all in the same boat together.

That is what it means for us to be equal as humans.

Thanks, Cammmpbell

Press on with your committed purpose of getting rid of all false religion, teaching and thoughts/beliefs, including any misperceptions you may have in the process that would equally benefit from correction in order to achieve your lofty and noble goals!

Yours truly,
Emily

Wait a minute.. What is a false religion?

 

[The Irish Ram]

If there is a God then it clearly has no desire for direct contact.

Hold on a sec. God:
walked with His children in the cool of the evening in the Garden of Eden
sat around the campfire with His friend Abraham.
laughed with Sarah
spent night and day for forty years with the Jews during the exodus from Egypt.
physically lived in Israel before the Jews asked Him for a King instead.
walked the earth for 33 1/3 years and allowed us to kill Him in order to rid us of sin, so that He could spend eternity with us.
Has an open line of communication for us to consult with Him.
Has postponed His return to earth, to give Gentiles 2,000 years to discover Him through faith.
Will be bringing heaven to earth to be close to us.
What more do you require?

 

[TNHarley]

If there is a God then it clearly has no desire for direct contact.

Hold on a sec. God:
walked with His children in the cool of the evening in the Garden of Eden
sat around the campfire with His friend Abraham.
laughed with Sarah
spent night and day for forty years with the Jews during the exodus from Egypt.
physically lived in Israel before the Jews asked Him for a King instead.
walked the earth for 33 1/3 years and allowed us to kill Him in order to rid us of sin, so that He could spend eternity with us.
Has an open line of communication for us to consult with Him.
Has postponed His return to earth, to give Gentiles 2,000 years to discover Him through faith.
Will be bringing heaven to earth to be close to us.
What more do you require?

Why would anyone listen to you about this when you are getting "God" and Jesus mixed up?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Thank goodness I've lived long enough to witness the beginning of the end of the practice of ancient god worship.

Cammmpbelll baby, You make me smile. The thing that you are thankful for is prophesied by the Father you ignore. Talk about convoluted.

End time prophesy:
'Love will wax cold'. The Greek translation of that specific love is Agape. Love for our Father will wax cold. And without it we will take this world to the brink of annihilation. He will stop it.
Thank goodness His love for us will never wax cold.

 

[The Irish Ram]

If there is a God then it clearly has no desire for direct contact.

Hold on a sec. God:
walked with His children in the cool of the evening in the Garden of Eden
sat around the campfire with His friend Abraham.
laughed with Sarah
spent night and day for forty years with the Jews during the exodus from Egypt.
physically lived in Israel before the Jews asked Him for a King instead.
walked the earth for 33 1/3 years and allowed us to kill Him in order to rid us of sin, so that He could spend eternity with us.
Has an open line of communication for us to consult with Him.
Has postponed His return to earth, to give Gentiles 2,000 years to discover Him through faith.
Will be bringing heaven to earth to be close to us.
What more do you require?

Why would anyone listen to you about this when you are getting "God" and Jesus mixed up?

Because I understand the Trinity?
Jesus was called Emmanuel.. It means, God with us, or literally, "with us is God".
The Trinity is:
God, the Father,
God, the Son, and
God, the Spiritual Power.

 

[emilynghiem]

Wait a minute.. What is a false religion?

To generalize, in hopes of including all cases,
the practice of false religion tends to involve teaching and judging things
in such a way as to contradict one's own beliefs, causing conflict with oneself and others, and blaming this on the other person or groups instead of recognizing it is mutual.

For example:
1. preaching one's beliefs as pro-choice, but then attacking other people's choices and even passing a health care bill that "saves lives" through govt mandates that deny free choice.
the problem is NOT in being prochoice, pro-gay marriage, pro-legislation etc. but in denying the same equal respect and choice for people who believe differently even the opposite.
so as long as such people contradict their own principles, they come across as false; that they are not really teaching or preaching free choice, but pushing their own agenda first.

2. preaching Jesus as the Messiah for all humanity, but then leaving people out of salvation. note: the saddest thing about this, this self-contradictory approach discredits the true message and process in Christian teaching that is inclusive and beneficial for all people.

3. preaching it is wrong to judge or punish the poor for their status, but then advocating penalizing the rich based on status and vice versa (instead of holding people accountable for wrongs or abuses that are costing society, whether the person is rich or poor). Totally contradictory, so these arguments go back and forth and in complete circles.

I find that anyone who is contradicting their own beliefs, ends up conflicting with others.

And people who are consistent with their beliefs, tend to align and harmonize with others, even if they are of different faiths or no faith at all. Much of the conflict is internal and projected. And when people on both sides of a conflict do this, they are both right that the other is being false, but are unable to resolve it because they are too busy blaming others!

As for a true religion, any religious system or law can be used to teach true principles.
Religions are like languages for the laws, both spiritual/divine or secular/natural.
So it depends how these are used if the teaching is consistent or not, or if it is conflicted.

 

[emilynghiem]

I am talking about the institutions.

Is there Christian healing? Yep. And Islamic healing, Hindu healing, Buddhist healing, Zen healing, and on and on. Nothing new there. There has been a lot of work on this idea, including exentsive study in placebos.

Is there something in the background going on? Maybe. I don't know and, to be honet, I don't really care. If there is a God then it clearly has no desire for direct contact. So why bother it? YMMV, of course.

Ok if we agree on the spiritual healing as natural and universal, that's good.
As for placebos, there is no way to fake forgiveness. You cannot pretend to forgive and expect the spiritual healing to work.

As for God not caring, are you saying because you don't care you assume God does not?
Are you doing what religious people are accused of "projecting their own beliefs" onto God?

I can understand if you believe the benefits and good in life are there, like the process of spiritual healing is there and anyone can use it, and it is up to us to make that choice, and not that these things are going to push themselves on us in some kind of active way.
Is this what you mean by God not caring?

If God refers to the love and goodness in the world as also manifested in humanity,
do you really see this as a neutral force that just exists and does not move proactively?
I understand that God in terms of truth or wisdom may be objective and just exist.
But God in terms of the forces of life and love tend to push for interaction not neutrality.

Do you mean this push is coming from people, and not from God?

 

[The Irish Ram]

I am talking about the institutions.

Is there Christian healing? Yep. And Islamic healing, Hindu healing, Buddhist healing, Zen healing, and on and on. Nothing new there. There has been a lot of work on this idea, including exentsive study in placebos.

Is there something in the background going on? Maybe. I don't know and, to be honet, I don't really care. If there is a God then it clearly has no desire for direct contact. So why bother it? YMMV, of course.

Ok if we agree on the spiritual healing as natural and universal, that's good.
As for placebos, there is no way to fake forgiveness. You cannot pretend to forgive and expect the spiritual healing to work.

As for God not caring, are you saying because you don't care you assume God does not?
Are you doing what religious people are accused of "projecting their own beliefs" onto God?

I can understand if you believe the benefits and good in life are there, like the process of spiritual healing is there and anyone can use it, and it is up to us to make that choice, and not that these things are going to push themselves on us in some kind of active way.
Is this what you mean by God not caring?

If God refers to the love and goodness in the world as also manifested in humanity,
do you really see this as a neutral force that just exists and does not move proactively?
I understand that God in terms of truth or wisdom may be objective and just exist.
But God in terms of the forces of life and love tend to push for interaction not neutrality.

Do you mean this push is coming from people, and not from God?

Dayum Em. Way to rock out an answer!

 

[PratchettFan]

If there is a God then it clearly has no desire for direct contact.

Hold on a sec. God:
walked with His children in the cool of the evening in the Garden of Eden
sat around the campfire with His friend Abraham.
laughed with Sarah
spent night and day for forty years with the Jews during the exodus from Egypt.
physically lived in Israel before the Jews asked Him for a King instead.
walked the earth for 33 1/3 years and allowed us to kill Him in order to rid us of sin, so that He could spend eternity with us.
Has an open line of communication for us to consult with Him.
Has postponed His return to earth, to give Gentiles 2,000 years to discover Him through faith.
Will be bringing heaven to earth to be close to us.
What more do you require?

No, you are referring to someone who was later claimed to be a god and probably would have been horrified if he knew what people would make of him after his death. I'm talking about a supreme being who should be able to communicate its desires quite easily and clearly. There wouldn't be endless religions, all screaming at each other over what that being is and what it wants. Since that being does not do so it either cannot or will not. In either case, that makes it irrelevant.

Religion is entirely human. God has absolutely nothing to do with it. You are free to act as if it does. That is a very human thing to do as well.

 

[PratchettFan]

I am talking about the institutions.

Is there Christian healing? Yep. And Islamic healing, Hindu healing, Buddhist healing, Zen healing, and on and on. Nothing new there. There has been a lot of work on this idea, including exentsive study in placebos.

Is there something in the background going on? Maybe. I don't know and, to be honet, I don't really care. If there is a God then it clearly has no desire for direct contact. So why bother it? YMMV, of course.

Ok if we agree on the spiritual healing as natural and universal, that's good.
As for placebos, there is no way to fake forgiveness. You cannot pretend to forgive and expect the spiritual healing to work.

As for God not caring, are you saying because you don't care you assume God does not?
Are you doing what religious people are accused of "projecting their own beliefs" onto God?

I can understand if you believe the benefits and good in life are there, like the process of spiritual healing is there and anyone can use it, and it is up to us to make that choice, and not that these things are going to push themselves on us in some kind of active way.
Is this what you mean by God not caring?

If God refers to the love and goodness in the world as also manifested in humanity,
do you really see this as a neutral force that just exists and does not move proactively?
I understand that God in terms of truth or wisdom may be objective and just exist.
But God in terms of the forces of life and love tend to push for interaction not neutrality.

Do you mean this push is coming from people, and not from God?

All things are "natural". As to forgiveness, if you feel you need forgiveness then something which makes you think you have it is a good thing. Personally, I don't think there is anything to forgive. At least not on a spiritual level. If I cause someone harm, then I would hope that I would feel bad about it. So as an interaction between people and within your yourself, forgiveness can be healing. Spiritually, it is meaningless.

I did not say God does not care. I have no idea whether it does or not. I said if there is such a being it does not desire direct contact. I said that I did not care, not that God did not care. God is irrelevant.

There is no external force pushing you or me. Such a thing could only be destructive. Everything comes from within the individual.

 

[Gadawg73]

I am a Christian, follow Christ and try, and fail many times, to act CHRISTLIKE in my daily walk in life.
But I want no part of that in government as religion can really fuck things up in government.
As it did for centuries until out Founders knew that and wrote The Constitution.
Set the law and left God out of it.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I am a Christian, follow Christ and try, and fail many times, to act CHRISTLIKE in my daily walk in life.
But I want no part of that in government as religion can really fuck things up in government.
As it did for centuries until out Founders knew that and wrote The Constitution.
Set the law and left God out of it.

As long as there are religious people, we will have religion in our government. It has always been that way and I expect it always will.

The Consitution is meant to be secular and if you don't understand why then you are a total idiot. There is noe seperation of Church and state in the Constitution. The First Amendment is specific in it's meaning.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Nowhere does it say that religon cannot be included in our government, quite the opposite actually.

 

[PratchettFan]

If there is a God then it clearly has no desire for direct contact.

Hold on a sec. God:
walked with His children in the cool of the evening in the Garden of Eden
sat around the campfire with His friend Abraham.
laughed with Sarah
spent night and day for forty years with the Jews during the exodus from Egypt.
physically lived in Israel before the Jews asked Him for a King instead.
walked the earth for 33 1/3 years and allowed us to kill Him in order to rid us of sin, so that He could spend eternity with us.
Has an open line of communication for us to consult with Him.
Has postponed His return to earth, to give Gentiles 2,000 years to discover Him through faith.
Will be bringing heaven to earth to be close to us.
What more do you require?

It occurs to me that I really didn't answer your question. I require nothing at all. However, if there is a God and that God wishes to contact me, then I am sure it is quite capable of doing so. I can't say what it might or might not have done with others, but I cam assuire you God has not walked up and introduced itself to me. I can only conclude from that that it either does not wish to or is not able to.

 

[Avatar4321]

It occurs to me that I really didn't answer your question. I require nothing at all. However, if there is a God and that God wishes to contact me, then I am sure it is quite capable of doing so. I can't say what it might or might not have done with others, but I cam assuire you God has not walked up and introduced itself to me. I can only conclude from that that it either does not wish to or is not able to.

Because you are unwilling to contact Him, you conclude that He is unwilling to or unable to contact you?

God doesn't force Himself on people. He comes to those who are willing. Ask and ye shall recieve. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it shall be opened unto you.

Why would you expect to recieve without asking? Why would you expect to find what you aren't looking for? Why would you expect God to open a door for you that you've never knocked on?

I never knew God before I sought to know whether He was there. Until I started asking, I did not recieve. Until I started searching I did not find. And Until I knocked, that door was closed to me.

I cannot say why God reveals Himself to some quicker than others. All I can say is that God has revealed Himself to me. Once I didn't know He was there and then through my experiences with Him, I've learned He is there. I know that my Redeemer lives. I know for myself that the Lord intervenes in events of mankind through His Divine Providence.

If you want to know whether there is a God or not. Exercise faith. You don't have to believe there is a God to exercise faith that if there is one He can communicate with you. That is what I did before knew God was there. I reasoned that If God existed and created this world, He would have a way of letting me know His will. I had no clue how He would. I didn't understand the workings of the Spirit as much as I do now. If I did, I would have seen Him reaching out to me many times where I was just blinded.

Experiment. Act in faith. Best way to do that is to pray. You don't have to ask the Lord for anything. You can just talk with Him. Share with Him your hopes and dreams. Evaluate your life and look at anything you can honestly do better. Express gratitude for the things in your life. Do it in humility. Do it with sincerity. If you do that, you will know God sooner than you realize. But you won't recieve a witness until after the trial of your faith.

Try doing it everyday for Forty days. It would be a small sacrifice of yourse time and effort. But the rewards would be overwhelming

 

[PratchettFan]

It occurs to me that I really didn't answer your question. I require nothing at all. However, if there is a God and that God wishes to contact me, then I am sure it is quite capable of doing so. I can't say what it might or might not have done with others, but I cam assuire you God has not walked up and introduced itself to me. I can only conclude from that that it either does not wish to or is not able to.

Because you are unwilling to contact Him, you conclude that He is unwilling to or unable to contact you?

God doesn't force Himself on people. He comes to those who are willing. Ask and ye shall recieve. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it shall be opened unto you.

Why would you expect to recieve without asking? Why would you expect to find what you aren't looking for? Why would you expect God to open a door for you that you've never knocked on?

I never knew God before I sought to know whether He was there. Until I started asking, I did not recieve. Until I started searching I did not find. And Until I knocked, that door was closed to me.

I cannot say why God reveals Himself to some quicker than others. All I can say is that God has revealed Himself to me. Once I didn't know He was there and then through my experiences with Him, I've learned He is there. I know that my Redeemer lives. I know for myself that the Lord intervenes in events of mankind through His Divine Providence.

If you want to know whether there is a God or not. Exercise faith. You don't have to believe there is a God to exercise faith that if there is one He can communicate with you. That is what I did before knew God was there. I reasoned that If God existed and created this world, He would have a way of letting me know His will. I had no clue how He would. I didn't understand the workings of the Spirit as much as I do now. If I did, I would have seen Him reaching out to me many times where I was just blinded.

Experiment. Act in faith. Best way to do that is to pray. You don't have to ask the Lord for anything. You can just talk with Him. Share with Him your hopes and dreams. Evaluate your life and look at anything you can honestly do better. Express gratitude for the things in your life. Do it in humility. Do it with sincerity. If you do that, you will know God sooner than you realize. But you won't recieve a witness until after the trial of your faith.

Try doing it everyday for Forty days. It would be a small sacrifice of yourse time and effort. But the rewards would be overwhelming

If I were to walk up to you, you would be contacted whether you wished it or not. Your desire to be contacted is not required. An all powerful being would be capable of contacting all of us, on a continuous basis, and leave absolutely no doubt. God does not do this. Again, I conclude this is either a choice or an inability. I am not making any guesses on that either way. If God does not think it important to make such a contact, then I see no reason why I should.

I think you are assuming that I desire this contact. To be honest, I have no idea why anyone would. I feel no such desire. However, I do not live in a vacuum and I know from personal observation that many people do. Simply because I view life in a particular manner does not mean it is the only way to view it.

 

[emilynghiem]

It occurs to me that I really didn't answer your question. I require nothing at all. However, if there is a God and that God wishes to contact me, then I am sure it is quite capable of doing so. I can't say what it might or might not have done with others, but I cam assuire you God has not walked up and introduced itself to me. I can only conclude from that that it either does not wish to or is not able to.

Hi PF: It seems to me you already have a natural gift for insight and wisdom in how you look at things objectively. (For example, being able to distinguish acts of war as coming from people, not from God, without getting reactionary about this.) May I suggest that the natural insights you get can be considered a form of interaction with God, and God does NOT need to be personified in the same way Christians or Theists do. God can be as neutral or abstract or all-present as the "spirit of truth or wisdom," the sense of "justice," the forces of "life or nature," which already weave themselves in the world around us. Anything that is motivated by "love" or seeking greater "good" in relations or society can be considered God's influence or will in our lives and interactions.

Also, religion does not need to be judged as all good or all bad either.
If you consider religions to be "languages" or systems of law, then any such laws can be used EITHER for good purpose or justice or corrupted/abused for ill reasons or injustice. Church laws/authority are just as prone to abuse as the State, so like you said with wars, it is the people who decide if they will follow the spirit of truth and justice, or not, regardless which system they use.

I would not limit myself to thinking God has to be a personified entity, especially if you have a more secular mind that looks at life objectively and may never experience things this way!

 

[PratchettFan]

It occurs to me that I really didn't answer your question. I require nothing at all. However, if there is a God and that God wishes to contact me, then I am sure it is quite capable of doing so. I can't say what it might or might not have done with others, but I cam assuire you God has not walked up and introduced itself to me. I can only conclude from that that it either does not wish to or is not able to.

Hi PF: It seems to me you already have a natural gift for insight and wisdom in how you look at things objectively. (For example, being able to distinguish acts of war as coming from people, not from God, without getting reactionary about this.) May I suggest that the natural insights you get can be considered a form of interaction with God, and God does NOT need to be personified in the same way Christians or Theists do. God can be as neutral or abstract or all-present as the "spirit of truth or wisdom," the sense of "justice," the forces of "life or nature," which already weave themselves in the world around us. Anything that is motivated by "love" or seeking greater "good" in relations or society can be considered God's influence or will in our lives and interactions.

Also, religion does not need to be judged as all good or all bad either.
If you consider religions to be "languages" or systems of law, then any such laws can be used EITHER for good purpose or justice or corrupted/abused for ill reasons or injustice. Church laws/authority are just as prone to abuse as the State, so like you said with wars, it is the people who decide if they will follow the spirit of truth and justice, or not, regardless which system they use.

I would not limit myself to thinking God has to be a personified entity, especially if you have a more secular mind that looks at life objectively and may never experience things this way!

Let me take your second point first. My feeling on religion is that it is social construct with the purpose of maintaining stability within the society. It is the second half of an overall institution which is the combination of government and religion. Since I see religion as a survival technique humans employ (and remember, in evolution it is the species and not the individual which is important) it would be, almost by definition, good. Certainly, any fair examination of history shows that religion has provided far more benefit than detriment to the advancement of humanity. To me, god are merely the continuity of religion - not at all supernatural or spiritual.

My personal feeling about God itself is that it does not interfere. It rather sets up the scenario of existence, but what you do with it is up to you. Such things as good and evil, love and hate, do not come from God but from within each of us. All that is good or bad is only us. Those terms are meaningless in terms of God.

On another thread there is a discussion about freedom. That is the basis of this philosophy. We are each utterly free. That does not mean we live under conditions of our choosing, but that each thing we do is our choice. It is absolute responsibility for our own actions. If you hold a gun to my head and say I must do this or die, it is still my choice and the responsibility for either choice is mine and mine alone. You can only choose to pull the trigger or not.

So... while I do not dispute what you are saying I really don't see that it matters. Calling God love changes nothing. You are still responsible for your choices and the consequences of those choices. Saying that love comes from God does not change the fact that it is you who must love and you can choose not to. Thus the entire question of the existence or nature of God is simply not relevant.