CBO: Stimulus saved between 5 to 25 million jobs

[CrusaderFrank]

Stimulus saved mankind

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Stimulus saved mankind

If only it could have saved the Martians from extinction.

 

[The T]

Stimulus saved mankind

If only it could have saved the Martians from extinction.

Before they jettisoned that piece of rock toward the Earth where we saw the skeleton?

 

[thereisnospoon]

It definitely saved my job.

And I don't work for the government.

You do know that half the stimulus was tax cuts, right?

how did it save your job, exactly?

The first time home buyers tax incentive.

It saved the real estate industry.

Saved the WHAT?!!!!
Shit ,you must be in one of the few markets where homes are selling. They are not selling here. Average days on market is well over 365.
My friend in Downstate NY 35 miles north of NYC has had her condo on the market for over a year with ONE offer. And that was a low ball offer just $5k above what she paid for it 17 years ago. This after the identical unit below hers sold for $216K just four years ago.
Don't tell me a taxpayer funded tax credit saved anything. It COST us money. And benefited the few. Same as that idiotic Cash for Clunkers deal. All that did was COST the taxpayers money and gave the few people who NEEDED a car a taxpayer funded gift. The unintended consequences is a used car market here prices are now 30% higher than before that stupid program. Yeah, THIRTY PERCENT......No good government deed goes unpunished.

 

[Sundial]

I would have thought it was between 1 and 800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 jobs saved.

And I haven't read a cogent explination what gubmint and Obama mean by 'saved jobs'...

It doesn't matter. You'd reject it anyway.

 

[The T]

I would have thought it was between 1 and 800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 jobs saved.

And I haven't read a cogent explination what gubmint and Obama mean by 'saved jobs'...

It doesn't matter. You'd reject it anyway.

*Try*

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I would have thought it was between 1 and 800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 jobs saved.

And I haven't read a cogent explination what gubmint and Obama mean by 'saved jobs'...

It's just another absurd way of saying "if not for me, it would have been so much worse".

 

[thereisnospoon]

I would have thought it was between 1 and 800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 jobs saved.

And I haven't read a cogent explination what gubmint and Obama mean by 'saved jobs'...

It doesn't matter. You'd reject it anyway.

That translated..You have nothing.

 

[Sundial]

how did it save your job, exactly?

The first time home buyers tax incentive.

It saved the real estate industry.

Saved the WHAT?!!!!
Shit ,you must be in one of the few markets where homes are selling. They are not selling here. Average days on market is well over 365.
My friend in Downstate NY 35 miles north of NYC has had her condo on the market for over a year with ONE offer. And that was a low ball offer just $5k above what she paid for it 17 years ago. This after the identical unit below hers sold for $216K just four years ago.
Don't tell me a taxpayer funded tax credit saved anything. It COST us money. And benefited the few. Same as that idiotic Cash for Clunkers deal. All that did was COST the taxpayers money and gave the few people who NEEDED a car a taxpayer funded gift. The unintended consequences is a used car market here prices are now 30% higher than before that stupid program. Yeah, THIRTY PERCENT......No good government deed goes unpunished.

Lower housing prices is a good thing. It makes homes more affordable.

If housing prices were going up, you'd be complaining about that too. And blaming it on Obama.

Just like you're complaining about car prices.

But whatever. I mean, this conversation is going like this:

Liberal: The economy is improving. Here's some facts and figures.

Conservative: Your an idiot!1!111!!

Liberal: But look, the stimulus helped. Here's how.

Conservative: The economy sucks! We hate you!

Liberal: No. Look. Here's some more facts.

Conservatives: You're a dummy-head.

And so on.

 

[thereisnospoon]

thats not what Keynes said, he didn't trumpet CONSUMER stimulus....but you knew that right?

...you are whacked dude.....seriously over the hill whacked. the real estate market is FUCKED.

And it would have been much worst without the incentive.

You don't work in the industry, so you have no idea what you are talking about.

I do. The housing market is toast. I've had several of my builders go under and the remodel industry is also crippled.

Correct..The only segment of the home construction industry that is doing well is disaster/restoration reconstruction. I know this because that is my business.
Of course geniuses like Chris will tell me I have no clue because HE is the all knowing all seeing real estate guru who believes with all his being that the Obama regime saved his job with a short term and costly tax credit. Sheesh. What a tool bag

 

[pete]

good grief. between 5to 25 million..

couldn't they come UP WITH A NUMBER or are we suppose to pick one.

So yeah sure...I believe it, really..

I think it is much closer to the 25 million figure.

The country was headed into a deflationary spiral before the stimulus.

The stimulus saved us from another Great Depression.

How can it be SAVED us ... we are so far in the red and going deeper everyday and Id say still on the brink.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Oh please. Even during the Bush admin the DJIA was no indicator of economic health.
As amtter of fact there is a 100% disconnect between the financial markets (Stocks, futures, index and commodities) and the real economy.
With virtual real time electronic trading, the markets have become reactionary to the slightest hint of good or bad news. Billions of dollars are traded instantly and 5 minutes later are sold or bought right back.
For example. Two weeks ago the Keystone Pipeline was rerouted to avoid the Nebraska Sandhills region. That brought on a huge spike in oil prices. The logic was that the oil would be piped to the Gulf of Mexico terminals to be sold to the highest bidder. Traders were convinced the oil would be sold for export. So they bought up oil futures to reflect the higher prices that would be paid for exported oil. The price of gasoline however did not follow.
The point is this is the type of volatile price movement in what is essentially not a commodities market but a financial market. All markets are extremely volatile and of no consequence to the overall economy.
Bottom Line - Oil spikes to $100, could go higher
So please....You people pooh poohed the notion of a strong economy when during the Bush admin the DJIA was over 14,000. You people said Bush killed the economy. Now that the DJIA is hovering around 11,500 it must be Obama's policies that are doing well....
You can't have it both ways....Cut the bullshit.

 

[thereisnospoon]

4th time- how did it save your job?

Once the first time home buyers tax incentive kicked in, people started buying again.

and after the credit expired. they stopped buying. Saving nothing, earning nothing. The only accomplishment was it has prolonged the slow downward slide in the real estate market.
The federal government in it's infinite wisdom, once again interfered in the marketplace and once again created unintended consequences. That is the continuing decline in the housing market. The slump should have been over by now. Instead, the economy is still being dragged downward. Yes, 1.7% growth in GDP is CRAP....

 

[thereisnospoon]

Notice how the stimulus kicked in Feb 2009?

I thought it was supposed to keep unemployment below 8%?

Was it a Stock Market stimulus?

It was indeed.

Look at the chart!

Holy shit!
We were told by the Obama regime that stimulus money was for job creation.
Here's the ultimate in hypocrisy from the Lib/progressives.....you people including your hippie bum fuckwad friends in OWS have been railing...no screaming your pin heads off about EVIL WALL STREET....Now you attempt to use Wall Street numbers in an attempt to gain political advantage.
Pick a fucking side.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I thank the president and the Democrats AND Republicans in Congress who voted for it.

And the Chamber of Commerce for supporting it.

SO, you REFUSE TO THANK THE TAXPAYERS...I guess THE Obama and Congress has a damn MONEY TREE they plucked all that money off of.

Stephanie... Chris IS a taxpayer.

Nice try.....paying yourself is a disqualification.
Because they benefit from the taxpayer, no one on the public dole, works directly or indirectly for government nor anyone who's livelihood depends upon taxpayer subsidies has any room to talk. They are disqualified from having an opinion because of the nature of their income is self serving.
For example....when current NJ Governor Christie urged the NJ Legislature to pass a 2% annual tax levy cap, the first and ONLY people to complain and protest were the government workers and the unions that represent them. One worker's rant stands out....He said "what about our raises?!!!!".....HUH?! I thought" you selfish self involved jerk. The NJ Taxpayers are forking over and average property tax bill of $15,000 per year and it's not enough?!!!! SCREW YOU!!!!!
This complaining comes form people who's avg salary is $90k per year PLUS benefits and not including overtime pay and sick pay....
Who is kidding who here. Chris pay taxes... Oh really....He also benefited from those tax burdens. Shut the hell up!

 

[thereisnospoon]

The Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) decreased
0.1 percent in October on a seasonally adjusted basis, the U.S.
Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today

Consumer Price Index Summary

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Ave

2011 1.63% 2.11% 2.68% 3.16% 3.57% 3.56% 3.63% 3.77% 3.87% 3.53% NA NA NA 2010 2.63% 2.14% 2.31% 2.24% 2.02% 1.05% 1.24% 1.15% 1.14% 1.17% 1.14% 1.50% 1.64% 2009 0.03% 0.24% -0.38% -0.74% -1.28% -1.43% -2.10% -1.48% -1.29% -0.18% 1.84% 2.72% -0.34% 2008 4.28% 4.03% 3.98% 3.94% 4.18% 5.02% 5.60% 5.37% 4.94% 3.66% 1.07% 0.09% 3.85% 2007 2.08% 2.42% 2.78% 2.57% 2.69% 2.69% 2.36% 1.97% 2.76% 3.54% 4.31% 4.08% 2.85% 2006 3.99% 3.60% 3.36% 3.55% 4.17% 4.32% 4.15% 3.82% 2.06% 1.31% 1.97% 2.54% 3.24% 2005 2.97% 3.01% 3.15% 3.51% 2.80% 2.53% 3.17% 3.64% 4.69% 4.35% 3.46% 3.42% 3.39% 2004 1.93% 1.69% 1.74% 2.29% 3.05% 3.27% 2.99% 2.65% 2.54% 3.19% 3.52% 3.26% 2.68% 2003 2.60% 2.98% 3.02% 2.22% 2.06% 2.11% 2.11% 2.16% 2.32% 2.04% 1.77% 1.88% 2.27% 2002 1.14% 1.14% 1.48% 1.64% 1.18% 1.07% 1.46% 1.80% 1.51% 2.03% 2.20% 2.38% 1.59% 2001 3.73% 3.53% 2.92% 3.27% 3.62% 3.25% 2.72% 2.72% 2.65% 2.13% 1.90% 1.55% 2.83% 2000 2.74% 3.22% 3.76% 3.07% 3.19% 3.73% 3.66% 3.41% 3.45% 3.45% 3.45% 3.39% 3.38%

Current Inflation

Well that's a jumbled mess. Cut n paste is a bitch on this phone. Check the link

Here's a clear picture:

Where's stimulus-inflation you were talking about?

Umm that's a nice try there sweetheart. The same mumbo jumbo that the fed chairman from the Chicago Federal Reserve Office in Chicago tried to spew.He said( I'm paraphrasing) "yes gas prices are up, energy, utilities, staple foods, dairy, coffee and other consumer goods had risen in price well ahead of the rate of inflation." He went on to say the rate of inflation was measured by a market basket of goods which had not risen significantly overall. He then used the example of flat panel tv's and computers which have fallen in price over the last few years. I yelled at the tv, " You jerk, we don't eat tv's and computers and we don't use them to fuel our cars!!!!!!...What an asshole.. Here is this prick that makes $300,000 per year plus expenses off the backs of the taxpayers telling us everything is fine and dandy.

 

[thereisnospoon]

First-time home buyers reached the highest market share on record during the past year, according to the latest consumer survey of home buyers and sellers. The study was released here today at the 2009 REALTORS® Conference & Expo.

The 2009 National Association of Realtors® Profile of Home Buyers and Sellers is the latest in a series of large national NAR surveys evaluating demographics, preferences, marketing and experiences of recent home buyers and sellers. Among national surveys, NAR’s Profile of Home Buyers and Sellers is unprecedented in size and scope.

Paul Bishop, NAR vice president of research, said several factors have been at play. “Tax incentives, record high affordability conditions and a pent-up demand brought a record share of first-time home buyers into the market,” he said. “These buyers are critical to housing and a general economic recovery because the market always heals from the bottom up – they absorb inventory, free existing owners to make a trade and stimulate related goods and services.”

The number of first-time home buyers rose to 47 percent of all home sales from 41 percent of transactions in last year’s study, and was the highest on record dating back to 1981. The previous high was 44 percent in 1991. “It’s interesting to note the last cyclical peak of first-time home buyers was during the last noteworthy economic downturn, with first-time buyers starting the chain reaction that led the nation out of recession,” Bishop said.

NAR Survey Shows First-Time Home Buyers Set Record in Past Year

My son being of those counted. Guess what? It wasnt the buyer credit. It was the fallen prices. KEEP FISHING.......... The overwhelming majority were existing homes.

Who said anything about new homes or why your son bought?

The fact is that almost HALF the buyers in 2009 were first time home buyers many of whom bought because of the incentive.

Yeah in 2009.....Because of the taxpayer funded subsidy. Now it's down to 37%. A precipitous drop.

NAR Home Buyer and Seller Survey Reflects Tight Credit Conditions
NAR 2011 President Ron Phipps, broker-president of Phipps Realty in Warwick, R.I., notes financing obstacles were more challenging for entry-level home buyers. “First-time home buyers fell to a 37 percent market share in the past year from a record high 50 percent in the 2010 study,” he said. “Although last year’s findings were boosted by the home buyer tax credit, long-term survey averages show that four out of 10 buyers are typically first-time buyers. This segment is critical to a housing recovery because they help existing home owners sell and make a trade.”

Seventy-eight percent of recent home buyers said their home is a good investment, and 45 percent believe it’s better than stocks. According to survey results, most buyers believe in the long-term value of home ownership.

The study shows the median age of first-time buyers was 31 and the median income was $62,400, up from $59,900 in the 2010 study. The typical first-time buyer purchased a 1,570 square foot home costing $155,000; the estimated median monthly mortgage principal and interest payment was $794. The typical repeat buyer was 53 years old and earned $96,600, notably higher than the $87,000 median reported in the 2010 profile. Repeat buyers purchased a median 2,100 square foot home costing $219,500, with an estimated median payment of $1,006.
The more important issue is how many of those 2009 first time buyers are actually A) still in those homes; B) NOT upside down in their loans or C) not in danger of or in foreclosure...
Well Chris, yer busted again....
Number of first-time homebuyers slips - Business - ReviewJournal.com
HAMP update: Foreclosure more likely than modification

 

[thereisnospoon]

Stephanie... Chris IS a taxpayer.

yeah and?

And... the whole point of the stimulus is getting people working, creating goods and services, adding real wealth to the economy, creating more jobs for others, and paying taxes.

What's so hard to understand?

What flavor of Kool -Aid is it today?
Please.....By Obama's own admittance, companies are not hiring and business activity is not growing. There were never any 'shovel ready jobs'.
Real wealth comes from the private sector not over spending by government in the form of quick fixes which remove money from the economy.
Money Down the Drain...
Just shut it.

 

[edthecynic]

The Federal Government has "poofed" away 2 and a half million jobs because they are just gone. This is what keeps the unemployment rate at about 9%.

By reducing the number of jobs thought to be available, the convoluted system to figure the unemployment rate also is reduced. If the number of jobs thought to be available was held at the level it was in 2008, the unemployment rate would be closer to 12.5%.

Any figure from the government is a politically motivated one. Reliance on them is delusional.

That said, where i live, and this could be a seasonal anomaly, the economy seems to be picking up. Many of my customers are hiring, not spectacularly, but with some consistency.

We may have cause for some cautious optimism.

You dumb DittoTards need to stop parroting your MessiahRushie and learn to think for yourselves.

Your MessiahRushie is the most ignorant man in any room he walks into!!!!!

The workforce participation rate and the UE rate have absolutely nothing to do with the number of JOBS!!!!! The number of jobs never appears in the calculations! The workforce participation rate is the RATIO of the total workforce population to the number of both employed and unemployed workers combined.

WF = work force = UE + E
WFpop = work force population (generally defined as all men and women aged 15-64)
p = participation rate = WF / WFpop

The unemployment rate is the ratio of unemployed to the workforce.

UE rate = UE / WF

The workforce participation rate has nothing at all to do with the total number of jobs, you have been lied to yet again because your puppet masters know you are too stupid to know they are lying to you and they also know you are too lazy to think for yourself.

November 22, 2011
RUSH: Well, I think the numbers are manipulated, but do you realize that since January of 2009 when Obama was immaculated, from then 'til now the number of jobs that are available to be filled in this country has been reduced by two and a half million. The regime has just erased them. They've just wiped them off the books. They have just said those jobs, they've not identified what they are, they said those jobs are gone. So if the universe of total jobs available has shrunk by two and a half million, then you can play some games with the unemployment numbers, the unemployment rate. The unemployment rate, if the number of jobs was constant today as it was when Obama was immaculated, the unemployment rate, the reported unemployment rate would be 12.3%. The only reason it's nine is because they just erased two million jobs from the total.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: It's the workforce participation rate that the Department of Labor plays around with. That's the total number of available jobs, workforce participation rate. It is the lowest it's been since 1983, or the worst, and it's just arbitrarily arrived at. They just say, "Okay, this is the number of jobs available." They erase jobs when businesses shut down, stores close, factories move and so forth.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I gave you a chart that shows that inflation is low by historical standards, that it fell sharply just as the stimulus was kicking in, and that it is lower than it normally is. What are you seeing?

Gold at $1700
Silver at $32
Oil hovering at $100
Gas at the pump still well over $3.00
Grocery prices going through the roof.

You going to believe some chart put out by people with a vested interest in lining their own pockets or your own lying eyes?

It's my observation that you people always believe charts that support your preconceived notions, and reject them whenever they don't.

HA! You lefties and Obama sycophants are the owners of having it both ways.