CBO: Health law repeal adds $230 billion to deficit

[Truthmatters]

What you are pretending is that the congress gave them some PHONEY numbers to skew the results.

 

[Jarhead]

Zero profit is the correct number for healthcare providers. Non-profit can work, there's no need for anyone to profiteer from caring for the sick.

But it is OK for someone to profit from furnishing food?

It is OK for sonmeone to profit from furnishing clothing?

You do realize that quality of good and services is predicated on the desire to make a profit?

Exactly how many people will want to become a doctor if they willnot make money doing it?

Exactly what will be the driving force to ensure good and efficient customer service in the inusrance industry if there is 0 profit to be earned?

Stop assuming all is perfect. A non profit insurance company may be a bit cheaper....but it will also give much less service....less efficient service...and if it is government run? In esence a monololy and not making a profit?

It will be a disaster.

Why do you pretend that is what was said?

Why do I pretend what was what was said?

NYCarbineer said that no one should make a profit on medical care.
Well, logic says that if there is 0 profit then the only one willing to run a business so vast without a profit would be the government.
One entity makes it a monopoly...a non profit monopoly.

So what am I pretending?

 

[RDD_1210]

So, all the government solutions to healthcare are broke, that's why we need one more, bigger than ever government solution to healthcare?

Is a 3%-4% profit margin "rape?"

Zero profit is the correct number for healthcare providers. Non-profit can work, there's no need for anyone to profiteer from caring for the sick.

Or in this case "not-caring"

 

[Jarhead]

What you are pretending is that the congress gave them some PHONEY numbers to skew the results.

No...I am not saying phony numbers.
Unrealisatic numbers.
They can not be phony as they are projections.

But they projected things such as less than 5% unemployment.
They projected no fraud.
They projected an increase in the supply of doctors.
They projected a propserous economy.

Such is possible, but not likely.
Many studies show the opposite in many of those factors.

 

[RDD_1210]

But it is OK for someone to profit from furnishing food?

It is OK for sonmeone to profit from furnishing clothing?

You do realize that quality of good and services is predicated on the desire to make a profit?

Exactly how many people will want to become a doctor if they willnot make money doing it?

Exactly what will be the driving force to ensure good and efficient customer service in the inusrance industry if there is 0 profit to be earned?

Stop assuming all is perfect. A non profit insurance company may be a bit cheaper....but it will also give much less service....less efficient service...and if it is government run? In esence a monololy and not making a profit?

It will be a disaster.

Why do you pretend that is what was said?

Why do I pretend what was what was said?

NYCarbineer said that no one should make a profit on medical care.
Well, logic says that if there is 0 profit then the only one willing to run a business so vast without a profit would be the government.
One entity makes it a monopoly...a non profit monopoly.

So what am I pretending?

I think you are misunderstanding. He didnt say doctors shouldn't make money, he was referring to health insurance companies. They are the ones who are adding no value in to the healthcare equation and thus dont deserve a profit.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

How can something that you aren't paying and have done away with cost anything?

 

[RDD_1210]

What value do insurance companies provide in to the health care equation? Next to nothing. Their only real value could probably come in the form of catastrophic coverage but their involvement in the day to day care of the people of this country is unnecessary and a root cause of the inflated costs we face today.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What you are pretending is that the congress gave them some PHONEY numbers to skew the results.

The democrats did that already thats why the CBO had to revise their figures.

 

[Jarhead]

Why do you pretend that is what was said?

Why do I pretend what was what was said?

NYCarbineer said that no one should make a profit on medical care.
Well, logic says that if there is 0 profit then the only one willing to run a business so vast without a profit would be the government.
One entity makes it a monopoly...a non profit monopoly.

So what am I pretending?

I think you are misunderstanding. He didnt say doctors should make money, he was referring to health insurance companies. They are the ones who are adding no value in to the healthcare equation and thus dont deserve a profit.

Insurance companies are the ones who furnish the cash flow for the claims.
They absolutely add value just as life insurance companies add value as do any insurance companies add value to the system they are applied to.

Without an insurance company continually investing and divesting to maximize returns, exactly how can they pay out a 300K claim to an individual who had only put in 120K over their first ten years as insured?

I am sure you know how insurance companies work....they are required and play an integral role in the industry they cater to.

 

[Claudette]

Health care repeal would increase debt - CBO - Jan. 6, 2011

You just dont get it.
Those results are based on data given to them...not actual data.
The entire healthcare law issue was the validity of the numbers offered by Reid....

I find it interesting that the article did not explain HOW it will increase the deficit when, in fact, a repeal would eliminate government involvement in healthcare.

JH you may as well talk to a rock.

Hell a rock would understand more than asshat TDM.

I'm surprised she hasn't called you a fucking idiot yet.

 

[Jarhead]

What value do insurance companies provide in to the health care equation? Next to nothing. Their only real value could probably come in the form of catastrophic coverage but their involvement in the day to day care of the people of this country is unnecessary and a root cause of the inflated costs we face today.

If this is true, then why do you have insurance?
I see it as a safety net...not for my day to day care....but for the concern of catastrophic.
I have auto insurance (collission) as a safety net. Havent had an accident in 30 years...but worth having just in case.
People do not have insurance to save on the $120 6 month appointment. They have it for the 200K claimn they may God forbid have one day.

 

[RDD_1210]

Why do I pretend what was what was said?

NYCarbineer said that no one should make a profit on medical care.
Well, logic says that if there is 0 profit then the only one willing to run a business so vast without a profit would be the government.
One entity makes it a monopoly...a non profit monopoly.

So what am I pretending?

I think you are misunderstanding. He didnt say doctors should make money, he was referring to health insurance companies. They are the ones who are adding no value in to the healthcare equation and thus dont deserve a profit.

Insurance companies are the ones who furnish the cash flow for the claims.

Actually, no they aren't. We the consumers who pay in to the system are the ones who provide the cash in to the system. The insurance companies are just glorified book keepers who's job is to redistribute the cash they've collected, which includes keeping some of it for themself. They offer VERY little to the equation.

They absolutely add value just as life insurance companies add value as do any insurance companies add value to the system they are applied to.

Without an insurance company continually investing and divesting to maximize returns, exactly how can they pay out a 300K claim to an individual who had only put in 120K over their first ten years as insured?

I am sure you know how insurance companies work....they are required and play an integral role in the industry they cater to.

I'm fully aware of how insurance works, it's pooled risk. Socialism in a way. But pooling risk and providing value are 2 different things. You can pool risk and not have a 3rd party involved that has to turn a profit, one that adds up in the billions. Billions that can be spent on actual healthcare costs.

 

[RDD_1210]

What value do insurance companies provide in to the health care equation? Next to nothing. Their only real value could probably come in the form of catastrophic coverage but their involvement in the day to day care of the people of this country is unnecessary and a root cause of the inflated costs we face today.

If this is true, then why do you have insurance?
I see it as a safety net...not for my day to day care....but for the concern of catastrophic.
I have auto insurance (collission) as a safety net. Havent had an accident in 30 years...but worth having just in case.
People do not have insurance to save on the $120 6 month appointment. They have it for the 200K claimn they may God forbid have one day.

I have insurance because thats unfortunately how our system operates today. Like I said before the only real value I can see insurance companies providing value is in the catastrophic coverage area. But their involvement in everything healthcare down to your average DR visit and being able to get your meds is where they dont need to be.

 

[saveliberty]

What you are pretending is that the congress gave them some PHONEY numbers to skew the results.

Obviously you can quote the unemployment, inflation, GDP, and medical cost rates used in the projections and why they are acheivable.

 

[chikenwing]

I think you are misunderstanding. He didnt say doctors shouldn't make money, he was referring to health insurance companies. They are the ones who are adding no value in to the healthcare equation and thus dont deserve a profit.


So when yo expect your insurance company to fork over several hundred grand,they don't add anything to the equation???

The new Math at work?? Look up the profit margins then get back with some real thoughts.

 

[Jarhead]

RDD...they invest those premiums...they do more than take it in and shell out 95% of it in claims and operating costs...

They invest it and allow those premiums to make money. This allows them to keep the premiums as low as possible, still be able to pay out the claims, still employ the tens of thosusands of people, and still make a profit for those with the headaches of running the business.

 

[Jarhead]

What value do insurance companies provide in to the health care equation? Next to nothing. Their only real value could probably come in the form of catastrophic coverage but their involvement in the day to day care of the people of this country is unnecessary and a root cause of the inflated costs we face today.

If this is true, then why do you have insurance?
I see it as a safety net...not for my day to day care....but for the concern of catastrophic.
I have auto insurance (collission) as a safety net. Havent had an accident in 30 years...but worth having just in case.
People do not have insurance to save on the $120 6 month appointment. They have it for the 200K claimn they may God forbid have one day.

I have insurance because thats unfortunately how our system operates today. Like I said before the only real value I can see insurance companies providing value is in the catastrophic coverage area. But their involvement in everything healthcare down to your average DR visit and being able to get your meds is where they dont need to be.

Exactly...but thats the point. The fact that they pay out for your monthly visits and meds is a bonus....but you have iut for catastrophic.

If you did not have it for catastrophic, would it be worth the money to have insurance to save the 1000K normal annual medical costs? I certainly would not pay more than 1000 for that...so I certtainly would not have insurance.

Seems to me your real complaint is the cost of the doctor and the drugs....it is a freebie that the insurance companies pay for that stuff as well...but realistically, that is not why you insure yourself ...you insure yourself in case of catastrophic.....
Do you see my point?

 

[Jarhead]

Look at it this way...and rid your mind of the rheotric out there....

I spend about 1000 a year on meds and bi annuals.
I spend about the same on replacement clothing.

Certainly I dont have insurance on ripped pants and worn out shoe soles...and if it were not for catastrophic concerns, I would gladly pay out my annual medical bills and not have medical insurance.....just as I do with my clothing.

That being said, maybe a simple reform of insurance is necessary.

You can buy insurance just for catastrophic. No more insurance for basic office visits. Premiums will most certainly go down.

Think about it.

You are complaining about the day to day....so why have the day to day. It is just another living expense such as food, clothing and housing.

 

[kiwiman127]

RDD...they invest those premiums...they do more than take it in and shell out 95% of it in claims and operating costs...

They invest it and allow those premiums to make money. This allows them to keep the premiums as low as possible, still be able to pay out the claims, still employ the tens of thousands of people, and still make a profit for those with the headaches of running the business.

131% increase in tens years while wages were at only 38% growth during the same time period.
And there's nothing wrong with this picture?
Here's how tough things are at the non-profits which I posted earlier:

The Sick Business of Health-Care Profiteering

"Even C.E.O.’s at “not-for-profit” insurance companies (like most state Blue Cross and Blue Shields) collect multi-million-dollar compensation packages, even as their companies pay little in the way of taxes. Blue Cross of Massachusetts’s C.E.O., Cleve Killingsworth, got a 26 percent raise in 2008, to $3.5 million, and Blue Cross of North Carolina’s C.E.O., Bob Greczyn, pulled down nearly $4 million after a 19 percent raise. Gail Boudreaux left Blue Cross of Illinois in December 2007 with $15.3 million. The not-for-profits can be just as freewheeling with expense accounts. In early September, a state audit found that Blue Cross of North Dakota used premiums to pay for a $238,000 sales managers’ retreat in the Cayman Islands and a $34,814 retirement party for an executive"
Matt Kapp on Health-Care Profiteering | Politics | Vanity Fair

I work for an internationally known non-profit, the executives get paid a huge compensation, the management level get paid quite well too (I'm one of them) our staff is paid well. Every year all employees get bonuses. There are yearly perks for everyone who works there to top things off. The grounds of our corporate and satellite offices are absolutely beautiful and our technology is at the cutting edge. We're non-profit, we must spend the money we rake in from our services.

 

[kiwiman127]

OK, what is the GOP plan for healthcare in the US other than Tort Reform that won't do much and allowing people to buy insurance across state lines, which also is a weak solution as I pointed out earlier?
Is the plan, keep the status quo?