bucs90
Gold Member
- Feb 25, 2010
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bucs is not too bright.
I was talking about how the police cannot detain somebody for solely not having an ID. If a stop for a ticketable offense is made an ID must be produced or a check is made of a thumb print. If that thumb print produces no match, it is not a crime to not be in the database. A ticket will be issued and the detained allowed to walk away. But a thumb print will stay in the database for next time.
If a crime were committed, a criminal offense...it is different scenario. Depending on the crime I doubt very much a judge would allow an arrested person to stay in jail indefinitely because Id is not verified. Bail might not be given, but after a sentence was served where is teh crime....no ID?
bucs is advocating fascism and is clueless about doing so...or ... I hate to think of the alternatives.
Then whose rap sheet does the conviction go on if the sentence is served and he is released? You have NO CLUE what you are talking about.
If someone is stopped, a law has been violated. (if no law violated, it's an unlawful stop, different discussion then). SO.....if a law has been violated, and no ID can be verified, the cop has under his descretion the authority to detain the person UNDER THE INITIAL CHARGE the stop was made on, with a charging document (ticket or warrant) that reads "John Doe". John Doe will then sit in jail until he can provide a verified identification. He will not be released for time served, because the court must put the charge on a rap sheet.
Again, if you get a jaywalking ticket, or simple speeding, whatever, and no ID can be verified, often a cop will let you go and trust the name you gave him or take the fingerprint. Thats sometimes department policy due to manpower and efficiency. You seem to not grasp the difference between legal allowable procedure vs common practiced policy. Department policy is often more restrictive than state and local law. For manpower and efficiency reasons. That doesn't change the issue that BY LAW the cop can detain you under the initial charge until ID is provided.
So, before you attempt it, you're gonna say "But illegals are arrested all the time and released without definite ID". Yes. They are. Thats where the CUSTOMER NUMBER from the DMV comes in. The judge will give time served, use the name and address he provided in a Mexican DL or provided, have a customer number generated in the DMV, and that is the new rap sheet that will begin.
But you will not be sentenced, and released on time served, under "John Doe". That I can 100% guarantee you. You are absolutely wrong on everything you are saying.
Who's rap sheet? Whatever name or alias it is filed under.
D'oh! People have multiple convictions and even a few with sentences served under aliases. In the end identities are matched up. But,...
If a person is arrested without any prior arrests, stops or detentions...a clean slate...and they have no ID....and they are convicted of a crime, never having gotten or posted bail...and then sentenced...when their sentence is up what crime will they be held under..."No busc ID?" they will walk away and have an ID in the database that is either true or an alias.
You're not following. By virtue of your social security number every person has a customer number already. That number can be found with a SS number. In that scenario, which is rare and I've actually never heard of, the Social Security Administration would be notified and a match attempted. Truth is, folks want to get out of jail, so they rarely refuse ID.
Now, can a person assume a false identity? YES, of course, but it would have to be of a person of similar physical characteristics and age. That has happened. A brother using his brother's name, birthday, address, etc. When checked, it comes back to that name, address, and "white male, 5 foot 10, 170 lbs, brown hair" etc. If the description is close, it'll likely slide. It's an unfortunate loophole, but, by fingerprints that person will only be able to do it 1 time. Once the prints are in the system, it's a done deal.
But I can assure with with 100% accuracy that person being charged at released after time served......if there is suspicion the person is providing a false identity, it will be checked intensly prior to release. "John Doe" is an obvious red flag name, so no one will be released under that name unless he's got absolute proof he is in fact named that.
The fake names only last until that first booking and printing. Once in the fingerprint digital database, they're ID'd immediately at the jail intake. So, yes, under a fake name that is a real person (usually a relative or friends name) a person can slip by 1 time as long as their physical description is similar.
If absolutely no ID can be found, then honestly he's likely an illegal alien or a citizen wanted for a murder or something and refuses to provide info. Our current problem is ICE isn't showing up to the jails for the illegals. Policy says the jail notifies ICE, usually through a phone call and voice mail or fax to local ICE office. But 99% of the time ICE ain't coming. It better be 10 or more prisoners to deport or they aren't coming. So, the judge has an illegal immigrant's name and address, fingerprints, and they are released. That name and info is put into the DMV and NCIC for a customer number. Next arrest of that person and the fingerprint will show that customer ID number. But ICE isn't coming.