Can't Ya' Give The President Credit...??

[edthecynic]

You know what they say, close only counts in horseshoes, handgrenades and dancing...but your post is also, sort of close.

Wrong, but sort of close.

Must I constantly help you see the light???


Check this out, FredTheCricket:

1. Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld:
“CIA Director Panetta indicated that one of the individuals who provided important information had in fact been waterboarded… There was some confusion today on some programs, even one on FOX I think, suggesting that I indicated that no one who was waterboarded at Guantanamo provided any information on this. It’s not true. No one was waterboarded at Guantanamo by the US military. In fact no one was waterboarded at Guantanamo period. Three people were waterboarded by the CIA away from Guantanamo and then later were brought to Guantanamo. And, in fact, as you pointed out the information from these individuals was critically important.”
Sorry Lefties… Rumsfeld Says Waterboarding Led US to Osama Bin Laden (Video) | The Gateway Pundit


YouTube - Sorry Lefties... Rumsfeld Says Waterboarding Led US to Osama

2. WASHINGTON — Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.

“Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.
Panetta, who in a 2009 CIA confirmation hearing declared “water-boarding is torture and it’s wrong,” said Tuesday that debate about its use will continue.

Panetta’s comments hours after Attorney General Eric Holder defended as lawful Tuesday the intelligence gathering and raid that resulted in the death of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.
Weasel Zippers » Blog Archive » CIA Chief Leon Panetta: Yes, Intelligence From Waterboarded Detainees Was Used to Track Down Bin Laden…


Now, let's proceed to the part that explains what happened to the folks who are easily manipulated...that would be you and GT, I guess....

3." But one Democratic communications hand sent advice to a slew of other Democratic operatives in the wake of the announcement hammering on the need to make sure Obama comes out on top.

“In your day jobs, do not let Republicans turn this into continuing the Bush legacy. This has to be about Obama’s decisive leadership,” the guidance said. “He is the one who oversaw bringing bin Laden to justice, much like how Bush failed to do so at Tora Bora and then claimed Osama wasn’t a priority.”

For Democrats, the argument is critical because they don’t want to let credibility on national security issues slip back into their post-Vietnam home in the Republican Party. And they need to fight the insinuation, fed by recent NATO action in Libya that one official characterized as “leading from behind,” that Obama is a weak leader."The next front: Claiming credit for Osama bin Laden's death - Kasie Hunt and Mike Allen - POLITICO.com


Get that? That's you there're aiming to confuse...er, convince.
Worked, huh?

Stop crying....you're not the only lefties that were made to look really, really dumb.
You'll bounce back....after all...

...you prove that you're never too old to learn something dumb.


BTW, I heard an interview with Richard Miniter, his book "Mastermind," is coming out today...and his evidence was that KSM was waterboarded, and sang like a birdie for a year!

Don't you ever get tired of making a fool of yourself.

The CIA, who did the interrogations, said that they didn't get the crucial info, namely the name of the courier, until well AFTER the waterboarding of KSM stopped. The CIA say they got it by conventional means.

Remember KSM was caught March 1, 2003 and even using your phony time line of being waterboarded for a year, that only brings us to 2004 and the crucial name was not gotten until 2005!!!!!!!

Clues Gradually Led to the Location of Osama bin Laden - NYTimes.com

By 2005, many inside the C.I.A. had reached the conclusion that the Bin Laden hunt had grown cold, and the agency’s top clandestine officer ordered an overhaul of the agency’s counterterrorism operations. The result was Operation Cannonball, a bureaucratic reshuffling that placed more C.I.A. case officers on the ground in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

With more agents in the field, the C.I.A. finally got the courier’s family name. With that, they turned to one of their greatest investigative tools — the National Security Agency began intercepting telephone calls and e-mail messages between the man’s family and anyone inside Pakistan. From there they got his full name.
Last July, Pakistani agents working for the C.I.A. spotted him driving his vehicle near Peshawar. When, after weeks of surveillance, he drove to the sprawling compound in Abbottabad, American intelligence operatives felt they were onto something big, perhaps even Bin Laden himself. It was hardly the spartan cave in the mountains that many had envisioned as his hiding place. Rather, it was a three-story house ringed by 12-foot-high concrete walls, topped with barbed wire and protected by two security fences. He was, said Mr. Brennan, the White House official, “hiding in plain sight.”

Rumsfeld and Panetta....google 'em if you don't know who they are.

Then wipe the egg off your face.


So, no torture was involved....just waterboarding!

Whenever CON$ stoop to arrogant condescension, they know they are wrong.
Thank you.

Panetta was not in the CIA when KSM was captured or tortured. As was pointed out, KSM was waterboarded by the CIA in March 2003 and all torture techniques were halted by the CIA in 2004. In 2005 the CIA still did not have the name of the courier.

And The Rummy Dummy admitted to Newsmax that the info that led to the killing of OBL was acquired by normal interrogation means.

Rumsfeld Exclusive: There Was No Waterboarding of Courier Source

Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tells Newsmax the information that led to the killing of Osama bin Laden was obtained through “normal interrogation approaches”


“The United States Department of Defense did not do waterboarding for interrogation purposes to anyone. It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance. But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding.”

 

[Douger]

I'm not all that concerned.

No one actually suffered consequinces.

Obama tossed his principles to kill a man.

That man was one of the most ruthless on the planet.

It was a good day. obama got props, the SEALs got props, even the CIA got some. But to expect Bush to get any, at this time, is a bit of a streatch when many like to say the economy is all obamas now.

They all are.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTldYbqlJc8]YouTube - Rumsfeld & Saddam Make Nice[/ame]

 

[Douger]

Yep. All coincidental.

 

[Douger]

It's all accidental.

 

[xsited1]

...

So...how does the President share the credit and make up for the threats he made to the careers and efforts of Bush administration officials, and interrogators at Gitmo?

When does he offer the 'Sorry, Guys'?

Exactly right. You might have seen my thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/165821-was-waterboarding-worth-it.html

This is a huge subject, one in which many people are choosing to ignore.

 

[Wicked Jester]

...

So...how does the President share the credit and make up for the threats he made to the careers and efforts of Bush administration officials, and interrogators at Gitmo?

When does he offer the 'Sorry, Guys'?

Exactly right. You might have seen my thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/165821-was-waterboarding-worth-it.html

This is a huge subject, one in which many people are choosing to ignore.

Of course they are ignoring it. Leon Panetta told it like it is........All of their lefty hero's, too include BHO, were running around like cackling caged hens, vehemently stating that Waterboarding didn't work. That asinine BS was just shoved firmly back in their ignorant faces........Of course they are going to ignore it. They can't stand that yet again they were proven to be completely wrong.

Watching all the liberal talking, er, cackling heads spittin' and spinnin' since Panetta's admission has been beyond comical.

And you can bet BHO is pissed the fuck off. Don't be surprised if we see Panetta joining that loooooooooooooong list of those who have been tossed under the bus.

 

[jillian]

actually, what leon panetta said is that it's impossible to know where information came from because it came from so many sources. but i will say that panetta turned out to be one tough dude.

 

[sitarro]

Dynamite counter!

Glad to see you working to ability!

you bring out the low level intelligent in me. That says something for the threads you make.

Actually, that was a pretty good come-back.


Who wrote it for you?

I'm guessing from the poor spelling and simpleton speak...........HUGGY.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Don't you ever get tired of making a fool of yourself.

The CIA, who did the interrogations, said that they didn't get the crucial info, namely the name of the courier, until well AFTER the waterboarding of KSM stopped. The CIA say they got it by conventional means.

Remember KSM was caught March 1, 2003 and even using your phony time line of being waterboarded for a year, that only brings us to 2004 and the crucial name was not gotten until 2005!!!!!!!

Clues Gradually Led to the Location of Osama bin Laden - NYTimes.com

By 2005, many inside the C.I.A. had reached the conclusion that the Bin Laden hunt had grown cold, and the agency’s top clandestine officer ordered an overhaul of the agency’s counterterrorism operations. The result was Operation Cannonball, a bureaucratic reshuffling that placed more C.I.A. case officers on the ground in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

With more agents in the field, the C.I.A. finally got the courier’s family name. With that, they turned to one of their greatest investigative tools — the National Security Agency began intercepting telephone calls and e-mail messages between the man’s family and anyone inside Pakistan. From there they got his full name.
Last July, Pakistani agents working for the C.I.A. spotted him driving his vehicle near Peshawar. When, after weeks of surveillance, he drove to the sprawling compound in Abbottabad, American intelligence operatives felt they were onto something big, perhaps even Bin Laden himself. It was hardly the spartan cave in the mountains that many had envisioned as his hiding place. Rather, it was a three-story house ringed by 12-foot-high concrete walls, topped with barbed wire and protected by two security fences. He was, said Mr. Brennan, the White House official, “hiding in plain sight.”

Rumsfeld and Panetta....google 'em if you don't know who they are.

Then wipe the egg off your face.


So, no torture was involved....just waterboarding!

Whenever CON$ stoop to arrogant condescension, they know they are wrong.
Thank you.

Panetta was not in the CIA when KSM was captured or tortured. As was pointed out, KSM was waterboarded by the CIA in March 2003 and all torture techniques were halted by the CIA in 2004. In 2005 the CIA still did not have the name of the courier.

And The Rummy Dummy admitted to Newsmax that the info that led to the killing of OBL was acquired by normal interrogation means.

Rumsfeld Exclusive: There Was No Waterboarding of Courier Source

Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tells Newsmax the information that led to the killing of Osama bin Laden was obtained through “normal interrogation approaches”


“The United States Department of Defense did not do waterboarding for interrogation purposes to anyone. It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance. But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding.”

I love making you tap dance like that....

...I give you the vid of Rumsfeld actually saying it...and the quote from Panetta, and you still try to deny it...

Does the sun still rise in the West in your neighborhood?

If it wasn't for you Lefties playing Twister this wouldn't be half as much fun!

 

[PoliticalChic]

actually, what leon panetta said is that it's impossible to know where information came from because it came from so many sources. but i will say that panetta turned out to be one tough dude.

1.ac·tu·al·ly/ˈakCHo͞oəlē/Adverb
1. As the truth or facts of a situation; really: "the time actually worked on a job".
2. Used to emphasize that something someone has said or done is surprising: "he actually expected me to be pleased about it!".

2. Use quotation marks [ “ ” ] to set off material that represents quoted or spoken language.
Quotation Marks

3. ac·knowl·edge/akˈnälij/Verb
1. Accept or admit the existence or truth of.
2. (of a body of opinion) Recognize the fact or importance or quality of

4. “Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.


Retract?

 

[edthecynic]

Rumsfeld and Panetta....google 'em if you don't know who they are.

Then wipe the egg off your face.


So, no torture was involved....just waterboarding!

Whenever CON$ stoop to arrogant condescension, they know they are wrong.
Thank you.

Panetta was not in the CIA when KSM was captured or tortured. As was pointed out, KSM was waterboarded by the CIA in March 2003 and all torture techniques were halted by the CIA in 2004. In 2005 the CIA still did not have the name of the courier.

And The Rummy Dummy admitted to Newsmax that the info that led to the killing of OBL was acquired by normal interrogation means.

Rumsfeld Exclusive: There Was No Waterboarding of Courier Source

Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tells Newsmax the information that led to the killing of Osama bin Laden was obtained through “normal interrogation approaches”


“The United States Department of Defense did not do waterboarding for interrogation purposes to anyone. It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance. But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding.”

I love making you tap dance like that....

...I give you the vid of Rumsfeld actually saying it...and the quote from Panetta, and you still try to deny it...

Does the sun still rise in the West in your neighborhood?

If it wasn't for you Lefties playing Twister this wouldn't be half as much fun!

And I gave you the link to the Newsmax video of The Rummy Dummy saying exactly what was quoted and highlighted.

 

[edthecynic]

actually, what leon panetta said is that it's impossible to know where information came from because it came from so many sources. but i will say that panetta turned out to be one tough dude.

1.ac·tu·al·ly/ˈakCHo͞oəlē/Adverb
1. As the truth or facts of a situation; really: "the time actually worked on a job".
2. Used to emphasize that something someone has said or done is surprising: "he actually expected me to be pleased about it!".

2. Use quotation marks [ “ ” ] to set off material that represents quoted or spoken language.
Quotation Marks

3. ac·knowl·edge/akˈnälij/Verb
1. Accept or admit the existence or truth of.
2. (of a body of opinion) Recognize the fact or importance or quality of

4. “Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.


Retract?

The problem is no one can give the info that was extracted by torture that led to the mission's success!!!!!!!!

We know that it wasn't the courier's name, the truly crucial info, that wasn't gotten until after torture was stopped in 2004.
So tell us, what little tidbit of info was extracted in March of 2003, the time when KSM was tortured, that led to Obama getting OBL that Bush was unable to develop in 6 years to get Reagan's Freedom Fighter???????????????????????????

 

[Trajan]

actually, what leon panetta said is that it's impossible to know where information came from because it came from so many sources. but i will say that panetta turned out to be one tough dude.

Jillian, you must realize that what he said, exactly what he said, is so totally ludicrous that it beggars the imagination. You see that right?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Whenever CON$ stoop to arrogant condescension, they know they are wrong.
Thank you.

Panetta was not in the CIA when KSM was captured or tortured. As was pointed out, KSM was waterboarded by the CIA in March 2003 and all torture techniques were halted by the CIA in 2004. In 2005 the CIA still did not have the name of the courier.

And The Rummy Dummy admitted to Newsmax that the info that led to the killing of OBL was acquired by normal interrogation means.

Rumsfeld Exclusive: There Was No Waterboarding of Courier Source

Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tells Newsmax the information that led to the killing of Osama bin Laden was obtained through “normal interrogation approaches”


“The United States Department of Defense did not do waterboarding for interrogation purposes to anyone. It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance. But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding.”

I love making you tap dance like that....

...I give you the vid of Rumsfeld actually saying it...and the quote from Panetta, and you still try to deny it...

Does the sun still rise in the West in your neighborhood?

If it wasn't for you Lefties playing Twister this wouldn't be half as much fun!

And I gave you the link to the Newsmax video of The Rummy Dummy saying exactly what was quoted and highlighted.

The reason that I said that you were 'close, but wrong,' is that Rumsfeld originally said no waterboarding had been done at Gitmo...and one could have understood him to mean that there had been no waterboarding....

...but the next day he expanded the explanation, not contradicted it....to explain that waterboarding had been done at other locations, and had given valuable info that led to the demise of OBL.

Was that too nuanced for you? Didn't you learn that knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

See...you remain wrong, with egg on your face.

 

[geauxtohell]

He's campaigning. Can't give DA BOOOOOSH any credit. He's already thinking about his re-election in 2012. His Partisan Politics have trumped doing what's right. It is sad but it is what it is.

How funny this is in light of the fact that, after you made this post, Obama extended an invitation to Bush to go to Ground Zero and Bush turned him down?

 

[JWBooth]

[URL="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0714874/"]William Roper

: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

[/URL]

Robert Bolt, A Man For All Seasons

 

[KGecu2014]

He's campaigning. Can't give DA BOOOOOSH any credit. He's already thinking about his re-election in 2012. His Partisan Politics have trumped doing what's right. It is sad but it is what it is.

How funny this is in light of the fact that, after you made this post, Obama extended an invitation to Bush to go to Ground Zero and Bush turned him down?

That is in no way giving Bush credit. Obama invited Bush because it was a photo op to make it APPEAR like he had, in some way, worked alongside Bush to get OBL. It was an entirely, 100% political move. He has been campaigning ever since his news conference on Sunday night. Inviting Bush to Ground Zero was his way of giving credit, without actually saying it. Our President does not have the integrity to explicitly give credit to anyone else but himself and his administration.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

\

Doc,...it's no fun when you're even handed in these situations!

Can you be less fair, and fight?????

I blame the little girl. She's almost 2 months old and she has a calming effect on me these days.

Yes, President Obama deserves credit for the event, especially as
the previous Democrat administration had no stomach to do it.

[\quote]

I can't disagree with that. I've long thought that Clinton shared a pretty large size of the blame for 9/11. It's like if you bought my house, I claimed up and down I did all the maintenance, and 9 months later it falls flat to the foundation.

True, you had 9 months to realize there was a problem and do something about it, but unless you were practically burning the house down, if it was really in good shape when you bought it, it should have gone 9 months without a complete collapse.

In the same way, folks that claim that Bush or Clinton are completely blameless are lying. Bush had 9 months to realize Clinton screwed up, but Clinton had years to fix a developing problem and failed.

Now then, the reason for the OP?

When I saw the many posts this morn demanding that President Obama be given credit, the historic accuracy needed to be inserted.

Simply, he used the plans, designs, methods and results of folks who he slandered and threatened with the weight of the legislative and judicial power of the United States, much as Scooter Libby was thrown in jail for the wrong political side of a debate.

That very much militates against any credit he deserves.

Libby is another topic. Lie to the grand jury, even by omission, and you're cruising for a bruising. I'd rather not go off track with him.

As far as Obama's criticism of Bush: Yeah, Obama deserves a tough time for that in 2012. He ran against Bush policies and yet pursued them in office. No one on the Left has forgotten that as far as I've seen. He still gets beat up on that point. No one on the Right should either.

Another analogy: It's was one very good strike in a baseball game. It's a shame that the other 26+ aren't on that same level.

 

[edthecynic]

I love making you tap dance like that....

...I give you the vid of Rumsfeld actually saying it...and the quote from Panetta, and you still try to deny it...

Does the sun still rise in the West in your neighborhood?

If it wasn't for you Lefties playing Twister this wouldn't be half as much fun!

And I gave you the link to the Newsmax video of The Rummy Dummy saying exactly what was quoted and highlighted.

The reason that I said that you were 'close, but wrong,' is that Rumsfeld originally said no waterboarding had been done at Gitmo...and one could have understood him to mean that there had been no waterboarding....

...but the next day he expanded the explanation, not contradicted it....to explain that waterboarding had been done at other locations, and had given valuable info that led to the demise of OBL.

Was that too nuanced for you? Didn't you learn that knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

See...you remain wrong, with egg on your face.

And still no one has said what info was extracted from torture that was so valuable that OBL could not have been found without it!!!!!
KSM fed the CIA false info they wanted to hear under torture. The first usable piece of usable intel, that OBL used couriers, came months after the torture stopped.
So again tell us what actual useful info was acquired by torture!!!!!

 

[PoliticalChic]

\

Doc,...it's no fun when you're even handed in these situations!

Can you be less fair, and fight?????

I blame the little girl. She's almost 2 months old and she has a calming effect on me these days.

Yes, President Obama deserves credit for the event, especially as
the previous Democrat administration had no stomach to do it.

[\quote]

I can't disagree with that. I've long thought that Clinton shared a pretty large size of the blame for 9/11. It's like if you bought my house, I claimed up and down I did all the maintenance, and 9 months later it falls flat to the foundation.

True, you had 9 months to realize there was a problem and do something about it, but unless you were practically burning the house down, if it was really in good shape when you bought it, it should have gone 9 months without a complete collapse.

In the same way, folks that claim that Bush or Clinton are completely blameless are lying. Bush had 9 months to realize Clinton screwed up, but Clinton had years to fix a developing problem and failed.

Now then, the reason for the OP?

When I saw the many posts this morn demanding that President Obama be given credit, the historic accuracy needed to be inserted.

Simply, he used the plans, designs, methods and results of folks who he slandered and threatened with the weight of the legislative and judicial power of the United States, much as Scooter Libby was thrown in jail for the wrong political side of a debate.

That very much militates against any credit he deserves.

Libby is another topic. Lie to the grand jury, even by omission, and you're cruising for a bruising. I'd rather not go off track with him.

As far as Obama's criticism of Bush: Yeah, Obama deserves a tough time for that in 2012. He ran against Bush policies and yet pursued them in office. No one on the Left has forgotten that as far as I've seen. He still gets beat up on that point. No one on the Right should either.

Another analogy: It's was one very good strike in a baseball game. It's a shame that the other 26+ aren't on that same level.

"I blame the little girl. She's almost 2 months old and she has a calming effect on me these days."
Best wishes!

I know everyone tells you....but they grow up so quickly. My baby had to go to public school this week for his first yearly exam!
I hope you have lots of pics!


Libby was railroaded. The case was about Valerie Plame...and they had nothing on the administration...so they invented a crime.
His 'lie' was a different memory than that of Russert.

It was criminalizing political differences.

I know you won't deny that it's only a lie if it is a Republican....need we mention Clinton, Vernon Jordan, Larry Lawrence, ect.


And to speak of the FBI as though they were above political pressure requires forgetting the best seller by FBI'er Gary Aldrich "Unlimited Access," which documented the fact that the FBI had no voice in the Clinton White House....


Did you see that this episode has reopened the question of enhanced interrogation? Another good topic.

Take care.