Can't Ya' Give The President Credit...??

[PoliticalChic]

And still no one has said what info was extracted from torture that was so valuable that OBL could not have been found without it!!!!!
KSM fed the CIA false info they wanted to hear under torture. The first usable piece of usable intel, that OBL used couriers, came months after the torture stopped.
So again tell us what actual useful info was acquired by torture!!!!!

"...what info was extracted from torture that was so valuable that OBL could not have been found without it!!!!!"

Well, an imporvement...you're new position is that there was info obtained by waterboarding, Rumsfeld states same, and you give up denying it!

Good start!

Now you just want to quibble as to how valuable it was.....
...love it!

No my argument still is there was nothing obtained by torture that led to getting OBL, proven by the fact you can't give it and therefore you create a Straw Man. As I said torture only produced FALSE info. It's your position that FALSE info is still info and therefore justifies your sadistic desire for torturing people.

I love this!!!
LOVE IT!

It's like you're hanging on by your fingertips...and I'm stomping on 'em!

OK..here goes two more fingers!

1. The trail that led to the doorstep of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan began years earlier with aggressive interrogations of al-Qaida detainees at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay and CIA “black site" prisons overseas, according to U.S. officials.

It was those sometimes controversial interrogations that first produced descriptions of members of bin Laden’s courier network, including one critical Middle Eastern courier who along with his brother was protecting bin Laden at his heavily fortified compound in Abbottabad on Sunday. Both the courier and his brother were among those killed, along with bin Laden, in the dramatic raid by U.S. special forces. War News Updates: I Guess Those Extreme Interrogation Techniques Do Work


2. An Al Qaeda suspect who was under harsh interrogation at a secret prison provided the nom de guerre of a courier. When two key prisoners lied about the courier, the CIA knew it was onto something.
Finding Osama bin Laden: Al Qaeda suspect provided initial clue, officials say - latimes.com


Eddie is a goner! Eddie is a goner! La la la!

 

[PoliticalChic]

actually, what leon panetta said is that it's impossible to know where information came from because it came from so many sources. but i will say that panetta turned out to be one tough dude.

1.ac·tu·al·ly/ˈakCHo͞oəlē/Adverb
1. As the truth or facts of a situation; really: "the time actually worked on a job".
2. Used to emphasize that something someone has said or done is surprising: "he actually expected me to be pleased about it!".

2. Use quotation marks [ “ ” ] to set off material that represents quoted or spoken language.
Quotation Marks

3. ac·knowl·edge/akˈnälij/Verb
1. Accept or admit the existence or truth of.
2. (of a body of opinion) Recognize the fact or importance or quality of

4. “Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.


Retract?

What part of NO ONE DISPUTES THAT SOME LEADS CAME FROM TORTURE CONFESSIONS? don't you get? You seem to think we're denying that, when we're not. It's simply a matter of what and how much, and as I said earlier, no one from the general public knows the extent of those quantifiers, not even certain people who like to have everyone think they're privy to top secret information.

Hey- don't interfere with my torturing...er, 'enhanced interrogation' of BeetsAndSpinach!

 

[MaggieMae]

Oh! And there's a video from 2008! Look no one denies that some information came from torture; but the on-the-ground CIA spies are the ones who tracked down the NAME of the courier, which took two years, long after KSM had been tortured. Why can't YOU people acknowledge THAT?

You can spit and spin until the very last cows come home, as all of the loony lefty talking, er, cackling heads have been doing since Panetta told the truth....Fact is, non-torterous Waterboarding works. As fully evidenced these past couple o' days.

Look, I understand that it is absolutley killing you lib's to yet again see your beloved loony liberal politicians proven wrong yet again. Yet again, all the cackling from Obama, Pelosi, Hillary, Biden Kerry, and many other of your beloved loons vehemently denying that waterboarding works has blown up directy in their faces.

Time to wake up lib's, and start dealing with the realities........All the spitting and spinning will not change reality.

Nothing's "killing me" except your intense hatred. The ONLY thing waterboarded out of those guys was the fact that bin Laden used couriers, period. The facts are in, so deal with it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The key to locating bin Laden was tracking the courier, period. It really doesn't matter at all that CIA interrogators learned several years ago that "couriers were being used" because without names, it meant squat.

Here's some of the background (which reads like a novel, not a boring news story):

Osama’s kill backstory – code name to confirm was Geronimo | Thoughtful India

The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA’s so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized for their involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.

“We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day,” said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.

Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.

It took years of work for intelligence agencies to identify the courier’s real name, which officials are not disclosing. When they did identify him, he was nowhere to be found. The CIA’s sources didn’t know where he was hiding. Bin Laden was famously insistent that no phones or computers be used near him, so the eavesdroppers at the National Security Agency kept coming up cold.

Then in the middle of last year, the courier had a telephone conversation with someone who was being monitored by U.S. intelligence, according to an American official, who like others interviewed for this story spoke only on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation. The courier was located somewhere away from bin Laden’s hideout when he had the discussion, but it was enough to help intelligence officials locate and watch him.

Waterboarding or not isn't the subject. The CIA got lucky; the American people got lucky as a result of their superior work; and our top notch military guys shot him dead. We're all winners, so stop the coulda/woulda/shoulda blame game.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLfoy2XsFw]YouTube - Hall and Oates - Private Eyes[/ame]

 

[MaggieMae]

"...what info was extracted from torture that was so valuable that OBL could not have been found without it!!!!!"

Well, an imporvement...you're new position is that there was info obtained by waterboarding, Rumsfeld states same, and you give up denying it!

Good start!

Now you just want to quibble as to how valuable it was.....
...love it!

No my argument still is there was nothing obtained by torture that led to getting OBL, proven by the fact you can't give it and therefore you create a Straw Man. As I said torture only produced FALSE info. It's your position that FALSE info is still info and therefore justifies your sadistic desire for torturing people.

I love this!!!
LOVE IT!

It's like you're hanging on by your fingertips...and I'm stomping on 'em!

OK..here goes two more fingers!

1. The trail that led to the doorstep of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan began years earlier with aggressive interrogations of al-Qaida detainees at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay and CIA “black site" prisons overseas, according to U.S. officials.

It was those sometimes controversial interrogations that first produced descriptions of members of bin Laden’s courier network, including one critical Middle Eastern courier who along with his brother was protecting bin Laden at his heavily fortified compound in Abbottabad on Sunday. Both the courier and his brother were among those killed, along with bin Laden, in the dramatic raid by U.S. special forces. War News Updates: I Guess Those Extreme Interrogation Techniques Do Work


2. An Al Qaeda suspect who was under harsh interrogation at a secret prison provided the nom de guerre of a courier. When two key prisoners lied about the courier, the CIA knew it was onto something.
Finding Osama bin Laden: Al Qaeda suspect provided initial clue, officials say - latimes.com


Eddie is a goner! Eddie is a goner! La la la!

You don't even know when you've been beaten. I really thought you would have left the room by now.

 

[MaggieMae]

1.ac·tu·al·ly/ˈakCHo͞oəlē/Adverb
1. As the truth or facts of a situation; really: "the time actually worked on a job".
2. Used to emphasize that something someone has said or done is surprising: "he actually expected me to be pleased about it!".

2. Use quotation marks [ “ ” ] to set off material that represents quoted or spoken language.
Quotation Marks

3. ac·knowl·edge/akˈnälij/Verb
1. Accept or admit the existence or truth of.
2. (of a body of opinion) Recognize the fact or importance or quality of

4. “Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.


Retract?

What part of NO ONE DISPUTES THAT SOME LEADS CAME FROM TORTURE CONFESSIONS? don't you get? You seem to think we're denying that, when we're not. It's simply a matter of what and how much, and as I said earlier, no one from the general public knows the extent of those quantifiers, not even certain people who like to have everyone think they're privy to top secret information.

Hey- don't interfere with my torturing...er, 'enhanced interrogation' of BeetsAndSpinach!

He's more up to date than you are, by far. As am I. You seem to want us to believe that torture is the ONLY method by which bin Laden was found. Not true, hon, not even close. If torture actually produced such a wealth of information (as you imply), we would have found bin Laden years ago.

 

[MaggieMae]

The key to locating bin Laden was tracking the courier, period. It really doesn't matter at all that CIA interrogators learned several years ago that "couriers were being used" because without names, it meant squat.

Here's some of the background (which reads like a novel, not a boring news story):

Osama’s kill backstory – code name to confirm was Geronimo | Thoughtful India

The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA’s so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized for their involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.

“We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day,” said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.

Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.

It took years of work for intelligence agencies to identify the courier’s real name, which officials are not disclosing. When they did identify him, he was nowhere to be found. The CIA’s sources didn’t know where he was hiding. Bin Laden was famously insistent that no phones or computers be used near him, so the eavesdroppers at the National Security Agency kept coming up cold.

Then in the middle of last year, the courier had a telephone conversation with someone who was being monitored by U.S. intelligence, according to an American official, who like others interviewed for this story spoke only on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation. The courier was located somewhere away from bin Laden’s hideout when he had the discussion, but it was enough to help intelligence officials locate and watch him.

Waterboarding or not isn't the subject. The CIA got lucky; the American people got lucky as a result of their superior work; and our top notch military guys shot him dead. We're all winners, so stop the coulda/woulda/shoulda blame game.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLfoy2XsFw]YouTube - Hall and Oates - Private Eyes[/ame]

I used to love Hall & Oates. Didn't they do "Summer Breeze"?? Ah memories...

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Libby was railroaded. The case was about Valerie Plame...and they had nothing on the administration...so they invented a crime.
His 'lie' was a different memory than that of Russert.

It was criminalizing political differences.

Perjury is always a dicey crime. Libby forgot rule number 1 of testifying: If you're not 100% sure of your testimony, it's best to not testify. Or if compelled to, be very very clear when you're not sure of something.

Fitzgerald had a reputation even prior to Libby of being a tough as nails obsessive compulsive prosecutor. To this day I'm not surprised Libby was tried for perjury, but that he was the only one.

Like I said, I don't want to get derailed on Libby past this. I'll agree to disagree on this one. It's so rare we agree on other points, I hate letting the Libby thing mess this one up.

On the other topic: Lots of picture. Lots of them. And she's already growing like a weed. Maybe it's the fact my 3 year old is looking like a little adult now, but it seems like she's noticably growing every single day. So if you've noticed I'm posting a lot less here, that's why.

 

[edthecynic]

"...what info was extracted from torture that was so valuable that OBL could not have been found without it!!!!!"

Well, an imporvement...you're new position is that there was info obtained by waterboarding, Rumsfeld states same, and you give up denying it!

Good start!

Now you just want to quibble as to how valuable it was.....
...love it!

No my argument still is there was nothing obtained by torture that led to getting OBL, proven by the fact you can't give it and therefore you create a Straw Man. As I said torture only produced FALSE info. It's your position that FALSE info is still info and therefore justifies your sadistic desire for torturing people.

I love this!!!
LOVE IT!

It's like you're hanging on by your fingertips...and I'm stomping on 'em!

OK..here goes two more fingers!

1. The trail that led to the doorstep of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan began years earlier with aggressive interrogations of al-Qaida detainees at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay and CIA “black site" prisons overseas, according to U.S. officials.

It was those sometimes controversial interrogations that first produced descriptions of members of bin Laden’s courier network, including one critical Middle Eastern courier who along with his brother was protecting bin Laden at his heavily fortified compound in Abbottabad on Sunday. Both the courier and his brother were among those killed, along with bin Laden, in the dramatic raid by U.S. special forces. War News Updates: I Guess Those Extreme Interrogation Techniques Do Work


2. An Al Qaeda suspect who was under harsh interrogation at a secret prison provided the nom de guerre of a courier. When two key prisoners lied about the courier, the CIA knew it was onto something.
Finding Osama bin Laden: Al Qaeda suspect provided initial clue, officials say - latimes.com


Eddie is a goner! Eddie is a goner! La la la!

I know you love making a fool of yourself by not reading and checking your CON$ervative sources carefully. You should have known by now that CON$ deliberately mislead the gullible.

Here's how you were suckered: It is one thing to say that people who were tortured gave info about the couriers and yet another thing to say the info about the couriers came from the torture!!!!

From your link:

The trail that led to bin Laden’s hideout in the town of Abbottabad, about 75 miles north of Islamabad, began between 2002 and 2004 with the CIA’s interrogation of al-Qaeda “high-value targets” at secret CIA sites overseas. Several detainees mentioned the “nom de guerre,” or nickname, of one of bin Laden’s couriers.
Some of the detainees who confirmed the courier’s nickname were subjected to “enhanced interrogation techniques,” the CIA’s formal name for what is now widely viewed as torture.

However the courier info did not come from the torture, but came months later under conventional interrogation according to 4 interrogators!!!!!!

Hunting him down: CIA finally found his courier. - Philly.com

In a secret CIA prison in Eastern Europe years ago, al-Qaeda's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, gave authorities the nicknames of several of bin Laden's couriers, four former U.S. intelligence officials said. Those names were among thousands of leads the CIA was pursuing.
One man became a particular interest for the agency when another detainee, Abu Faraj al-Libi, told interrogators that when he was promoted to succeed Mohammed as al-Qaeda's operational leader, he received the word through a courier. Only bin Laden would have given Libi that promotion, CIA officials believed.
If they could find that courier, they'd find bin Laden.
The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA's so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been investigated and criticized for involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.
"We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day," said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.
Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.
It took years of work for intelligence agencies to learn he was a Kuwaiti-born man named Sheikh Abu Ahmed.

 

[Jarhead]

No my argument still is there was nothing obtained by torture that led to getting OBL, proven by the fact you can't give it and therefore you create a Straw Man. As I said torture only produced FALSE info. It's your position that FALSE info is still info and therefore justifies your sadistic desire for torturing people.

I love this!!!
LOVE IT!

It's like you're hanging on by your fingertips...and I'm stomping on 'em!

OK..here goes two more fingers!

1. The trail that led to the doorstep of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan began years earlier with aggressive interrogations of al-Qaida detainees at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay and CIA “black site" prisons overseas, according to U.S. officials.

It was those sometimes controversial interrogations that first produced descriptions of members of bin Laden’s courier network, including one critical Middle Eastern courier who along with his brother was protecting bin Laden at his heavily fortified compound in Abbottabad on Sunday. Both the courier and his brother were among those killed, along with bin Laden, in the dramatic raid by U.S. special forces. War News Updates: I Guess Those Extreme Interrogation Techniques Do Work


2. An Al Qaeda suspect who was under harsh interrogation at a secret prison provided the nom de guerre of a courier. When two key prisoners lied about the courier, the CIA knew it was onto something.
Finding Osama bin Laden: Al Qaeda suspect provided initial clue, officials say - latimes.com


Eddie is a goner! Eddie is a goner! La la la!

I know you love making a fool of yourself by not reading and checking your CON$ervative sources carefully. You should have known by now that CON$ deliberately mislead the gullible.

Here's how you were suckered: It is one thing to say that people who were tortured gave info about the couriers and yet another thing to say the info about the couriers came from the torture!!!!

From your link:

The trail that led to bin Laden’s hideout in the town of Abbottabad, about 75 miles north of Islamabad, began between 2002 and 2004 with the CIA’s interrogation of al-Qaeda “high-value targets” at secret CIA sites overseas. Several detainees mentioned the “nom de guerre,” or nickname, of one of bin Laden’s couriers.
Some of the detainees who confirmed the courier’s nickname were subjected to “enhanced interrogation techniques,” the CIA’s formal name for what is now widely viewed as torture.

However the courier info did not come from the torture, but came months later under conventional interrogation according to 4 interrogators!!!!!!

Hunting him down: CIA finally found his courier. - Philly.com

In a secret CIA prison in Eastern Europe years ago, al-Qaeda's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, gave authorities the nicknames of several of bin Laden's couriers, four former U.S. intelligence officials said. Those names were among thousands of leads the CIA was pursuing.
One man became a particular interest for the agency when another detainee, Abu Faraj al-Libi, told interrogators that when he was promoted to succeed Mohammed as al-Qaeda's operational leader, he received the word through a courier. Only bin Laden would have given Libi that promotion, CIA officials believed.
If they could find that courier, they'd find bin Laden.
The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA's so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been investigated and criticized for involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.
"We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day," said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.
Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.
It took years of work for intelligence agencies to learn he was a Kuwaiti-born man named Sheikh Abu Ahmed.

So you are saying that "torture" doesnt work.
Funny....it is something that has been implemented during wars since the very first war.
Seems to me, if it didnt work, it would be a practice that ended thousands of years ago.

I guess you are a man that beats his chest and says..."I dont care how much pain and discomfort I had to tolerate...I would NEVER give out information"..

Well..I got news for ya fella....not everyone is as much a he man as you are.

Only an idoelogue who has one way of thinking would think otherwise.

 

[Jarhead]

So Ed....

You believe that a man was put through "torture" and gave no information....

But when he was asked nicely he spilled his guts.

Sure...the fear of another "torture" session had nothing to do with it.

Your line of thinking and logic is pathetic.

 

[edthecynic]

No my argument still is there was nothing obtained by torture that led to getting OBL, proven by the fact you can't give it and therefore you create a Straw Man. As I said torture only produced FALSE info. It's your position that FALSE info is still info and therefore justifies your sadistic desire for torturing people.

I love this!!!
LOVE IT!

It's like you're hanging on by your fingertips...and I'm stomping on 'em!

OK..here goes two more fingers!

1. The trail that led to the doorstep of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan began years earlier with aggressive interrogations of al-Qaida detainees at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay and CIA “black site" prisons overseas, according to U.S. officials.

It was those sometimes controversial interrogations that first produced descriptions of members of bin Laden’s courier network, including one critical Middle Eastern courier who along with his brother was protecting bin Laden at his heavily fortified compound in Abbottabad on Sunday. Both the courier and his brother were among those killed, along with bin Laden, in the dramatic raid by U.S. special forces. War News Updates: I Guess Those Extreme Interrogation Techniques Do Work


2. An Al Qaeda suspect who was under harsh interrogation at a secret prison provided the nom de guerre of a courier. When two key prisoners lied about the courier, the CIA knew it was onto something.
Finding Osama bin Laden: Al Qaeda suspect provided initial clue, officials say - latimes.com


Eddie is a goner! Eddie is a goner! La la la!

You don't even know when you've been beaten. I really thought you would have left the room by now.

From dealing with PC, I'm beginning to see the wisdom of the below quote.

There is no sense in having an argument with a man so stupid he doesn't know you have the better of him.
- John Roper

 

[theHawk]

These idiot liberals cannot be reasoned with. They have no core values or principles to stand on. These people protested until they were blue in the face every policy we used in war on terror. Now suddenly they are trying to re-write history because Obama has a "victory" thanks to using those same policies.

Have any of these assholes every praised Bush or given him any credit for CAPTURING the operational architect of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed? Nope, not a peep all these years.

All they can do is criticize how he was treated after being captured.

 

[sitarro]

The key to locating bin Laden was tracking the courier, period. It really doesn't matter at all that CIA interrogators learned several years ago that "couriers were being used" because without names, it meant squat.

Here's some of the background (which reads like a novel, not a boring news story):

Osama’s kill backstory – code name to confirm was Geronimo | Thoughtful India


Waterboarding or not isn't the subject. The CIA got lucky; the American people got lucky as a result of their superior work; and our top notch military guys shot him dead. We're all winners, so stop the coulda/woulda/shoulda blame game.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLfoy2XsFw]YouTube - Hall and Oates - Private Eyes[/ame]

I used to love Hall & Oates. Didn't they do "Summer Breeze"?? Ah memories...

You are about as close about "Summer Breeze" as you are about politics. Summer Breeze was a hit produced by Seals And Crofts in 1972, the year I graduated from high school.

 

[edthecynic]

I love this!!!
LOVE IT!

It's like you're hanging on by your fingertips...and I'm stomping on 'em!

OK..here goes two more fingers!

1. The trail that led to the doorstep of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan began years earlier with aggressive interrogations of al-Qaida detainees at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay and CIA “black site" prisons overseas, according to U.S. officials.

It was those sometimes controversial interrogations that first produced descriptions of members of bin Laden’s courier network, including one critical Middle Eastern courier who along with his brother was protecting bin Laden at his heavily fortified compound in Abbottabad on Sunday. Both the courier and his brother were among those killed, along with bin Laden, in the dramatic raid by U.S. special forces. War News Updates: I Guess Those Extreme Interrogation Techniques Do Work


2. An Al Qaeda suspect who was under harsh interrogation at a secret prison provided the nom de guerre of a courier. When two key prisoners lied about the courier, the CIA knew it was onto something.
Finding Osama bin Laden: Al Qaeda suspect provided initial clue, officials say - latimes.com


Eddie is a goner! Eddie is a goner! La la la!

I know you love making a fool of yourself by not reading and checking your CON$ervative sources carefully. You should have known by now that CON$ deliberately mislead the gullible.

Here's how you were suckered: It is one thing to say that people who were tortured gave info about the couriers and yet another thing to say the info about the couriers came from the torture!!!!

From your link:

The trail that led to bin Laden’s hideout in the town of Abbottabad, about 75 miles north of Islamabad, began between 2002 and 2004 with the CIA’s interrogation of al-Qaeda “high-value targets” at secret CIA sites overseas. Several detainees mentioned the “nom de guerre,” or nickname, of one of bin Laden’s couriers.
Some of the detainees who confirmed the courier’s nickname were subjected to “enhanced interrogation techniques,” the CIA’s formal name for what is now widely viewed as torture.

However the courier info did not come from the torture, but came months later under conventional interrogation according to 4 interrogators!!!!!!

Hunting him down: CIA finally found his courier. - Philly.com

In a secret CIA prison in Eastern Europe years ago, al-Qaeda's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, gave authorities the nicknames of several of bin Laden's couriers, four former U.S. intelligence officials said. Those names were among thousands of leads the CIA was pursuing.
One man became a particular interest for the agency when another detainee, Abu Faraj al-Libi, told interrogators that when he was promoted to succeed Mohammed as al-Qaeda's operational leader, he received the word through a courier. Only bin Laden would have given Libi that promotion, CIA officials believed.
If they could find that courier, they'd find bin Laden.
The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA's so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been investigated and criticized for involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.
"We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day," said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.
Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.
It took years of work for intelligence agencies to learn he was a Kuwaiti-born man named Sheikh Abu Ahmed.

So you are saying that "torture" doesnt work.
Funny....it is something that has been implemented during wars since the very first war.
Seems to me, if it didnt work, it would be a practice that ended thousands of years ago.

I guess you are a man that beats his chest and says..."I dont care how much pain and discomfort I had to tolerate...I would NEVER give out information"..

Well..I got news for ya fella....not everyone is as much a he man as you are.

Only an idoelogue who has one way of thinking would think otherwise.

It all depends on what you mean by "works." If you want FALSE confessions, for example, torture "works" great. However if you want true information it fails miserably.

 

[Jarhead]

It all depends on what you mean by "works." If you want FALSE confessions, for example, torture "works" great. However if you want true information it fails miserably.

so for thousands of years, torture only resulted in false info, but people continued to use it over and over regardless?

Does that really make sense to you?

 

[Old Rocks]

Yeah right like I would pay any attention to a Michel Moore blog either.
Challenge declined for lack of interest.

Challenge declined because your flimsy defense of the President is unfounded.

Well, PC, President Obama got Bin Laden. President Bush let him go at Tora Bora. And later stated, "he is not a concern of mine". That is how history will remember this. All your whining and mewling will not change the facts one bit.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What part of NO ONE DISPUTES THAT SOME LEADS CAME FROM TORTURE CONFESSIONS? don't you get? You seem to think we're denying that, when we're not. It's simply a matter of what and how much, and as I said earlier, no one from the general public knows the extent of those quantifiers, not even certain people who like to have everyone think they're privy to top secret information.

Hey- don't interfere with my torturing...er, 'enhanced interrogation' of BeetsAndSpinach!

He's more up to date than you are, by far. As am I. You seem to want us to believe that torture is the ONLY method by which bin Laden was found. Not true, hon, not even close. If torture actually produced such a wealth of information (as you imply), we would have found bin Laden years ago.

1. Try to be accurate. There was no torture. None.
Only giving a bad time to bad folks.
If you need an example of torture, just say so.

2. "You seem to want us to believe..."
There's that liberal "us," used by folks who are afraid to stand up by themselves, as though you had a whole gang behind you.


3. "...to want us to believe that torture is the ONLY method..."
Only in your fevered imagination...
...unless you can find one of my posts where I said that.
'else it's just a fabrication on your part.

Waiting.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRTCE0Vo7LA&NR=1]YouTube - Crickets' Sound[/ame]

 

[edthecynic]

So Ed....

You believe that a man was put through "torture" and gave no information....

But when he was asked nicely he spilled his guts.

Sure...the fear of another "torture" session had nothing to do with it.

Your line of thinking and logic is pathetic.

No, that's the CON$ervative Straw Man.

When KSM was tortured he did give up information, but when the CIA checked the info they found it was false info. It was months after the torture stopped that the CIA got valid info, by conventional means.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yeah right like I would pay any attention to a Michel Moore blog either.
Challenge declined for lack of interest.

Challenge declined because your flimsy defense of the President is unfounded.

Well, PC, President Obama got Bin Laden. President Bush let him go at Tora Bora. And later stated, "he is not a concern of mine". That is how history will remember this. All your whining and mewling will not change the facts one bit.

So, you believe that President Bush...you know, the guy whose administration designed Gitmo, and the techniques that provided the information used by President Obama to fight the war on terror and arrange the demise of OBL, ...didn't track OBL on a daily basis?

Is that your premise?

Well, allow me to disabuse you of your error:

"But a former top intelligence officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, asserted that Bush routinely asked him about bin Laden during Thursday morning briefings about CIA operations.

“I’d walk in there and he would just say, ‘So where are we on bin Laden?’” the official said. “He was very focused on it – this was always a top priority. I’d think, ‘Oh, hell – he asked me that again.’”

“The structures and processes that President Bush put in place were the right things to do, and are paying benefits,” Rumsfeld said in a telephone interview. “We began almost immediately putting an emphasis on special operators and Navy SEALs. … This kind of thing is cumulative over time – scraps of information. The intelligence that contributed to this may very well have been from the interrogation process that took place by the Bush administration.”
Read more: The next front: Claiming credit for Osama bin Laden's death - Kasie Hunt and Mike Allen - POLITICO.com