Can't Ya' Give The President Credit...??

[Lonestar_logic]

Whenever CON$ stoop to arrogant condescension, they know they are wrong.
Thank you.

Panetta was not in the CIA when KSM was captured or tortured. As was pointed out, KSM was waterboarded by the CIA in March 2003 and all torture techniques were halted by the CIA in 2004. In 2005 the CIA still did not have the name of the courier.

And The Rummy Dummy admitted to Newsmax that the info that led to the killing of OBL was acquired by normal interrogation means.

Rumsfeld Exclusive: There Was No Waterboarding of Courier Source

Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tells Newsmax the information that led to the killing of Osama bin Laden was obtained through “normal interrogation approaches”


“The United States Department of Defense did not do waterboarding for interrogation purposes to anyone. It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance. But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding.”

I love making you tap dance like that....

...I give you the vid of Rumsfeld actually saying it...and the quote from Panetta, and you still try to deny it...

Does the sun still rise in the West in your neighborhood?

If it wasn't for you Lefties playing Twister this wouldn't be half as much fun!

And I gave you the link to the Newsmax video of The Rummy Dummy saying exactly what was quoted and highlighted.

Rumself said no waterboarding was done at Gitmo by the military. And he's right. It was done at a secret prison by the CIA and yes information was gleened through harsh interrogations about the courier.

YouTube - Bill O'Reilly & Donald Rumsfeld on Water boarding (5/4/11)

 

[MaggieMae]

Sure.

Let's make believe this never happened:

1. WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama said Wednesday night that waterboarding authorized by former President George W. Bush was torture and that the information it gained from terror suspects could have been obtained by other means. "In some cases, it may be harder," he conceded at a White House news conference capping a whirlwind first 100 days in office.

The president also said he was "absolutely convinced" he had acted correctly in banning tough interrogation techniques including waterboarding, which simulates drowning, and in making public the Bush administration memos detailing their use on terrorist suspects. ...Obama has come under heavy criticism for his actions from former Vice President Dick Cheney and other Republicans. They have urged Obama to release memos they say will show the tough methods were successful in obtaining information.

Obama told reporters he has read the documents Cheney and others are referring to but said they are classified and declined to discuss their details. In a White House exchange with House Republican leader John Boehner last week, Obama said the record was equivocal.
Obama says waterboarding was torture


2. "I have been consistent in my strong belief that no Administration should allow the use of torture, including so-called 'enhanced interrogation techniques' like water-boarding, head-slapping, and extreme temperatures. It's time that we had a Department of Justice that upholds the rule of law and American values, instead of finding ways to enable the President to subvert them. No more political parsing or legal loopholes. I cannot support Judge Mukasey unless he clearly and unequivocally rejects techniques like water-boarding."
Election Central | Talking Points Memo | Obama: "I Cannot Support" Mukasey Without Clarity On Waterboarding

3. On Aug. 24, 2009, US Attorney General Eric Holder that, at the behest of President Barack Obama, he had appointed a special prosecutor to probe the interrogation techniques administered to detainees by CIA operatives during the George W. Bush administration.

Aug 31, 2009
In a wide-ranging interview with FOX News Sunday's Chris Wallace yesterday, former Vice President Dick Cheney outlined why investigating the legality of decisions made by a previous administration will do more than just create morale problems for America's national security personnel -- it will ensure that every single presidential decision will be open to long-term legal consequences.

Aug 25, 2009
US Attorney General Eric Holder announced Monday that he has launched an investigation into the methods used by CIA operatives who interrogated suspected terrorists during the Bush Administration ...CIA Interrogation Probe -- Tracking Obama's CIA Interrogation Probe

4. Obama Can't Let Go: May Investigate GITMO Interrogations
From Justin Quinn, About.com Guide April 22, 2009

President Barack Obama can't seem to move on from the 2008 presidential election. He seems determined to continue his campaign against the Bush administration.

Obama released select documents Monday from his predecessor's National Security Files, which detailed the somewhat harsh interrogation techniques allegedly used against enemy combatants housed at the Guantanamo Bay Detention Center. Obama followed up the release of these documents by saying he couldn't rule out investigations and/or prosecutions of the top Bush officials who signed off on the use of the techniques.
Obama seems to forget that it was under the previous Democratic administration that the attacks of 9/11 were planned and the terrorists provided entry to the US.

While it may be convenient for Obama to divert attention from his administrations many early mistakes by trying to refocus the nation's attention on the Bush administration, Obama really should concentrate on keeping America safe and fixing its many problems. Investigating Bush officials solves nothing and only creates more division on Capitol Hill -- something Obama the presidential candidate promised he wouldn't do.

Obama Can't Let Go: May Investigate GITMO Interrogations


5. Something the president forgot to mention last night, when he claimed credit for “the most significant achievement to date in our nation’s effort to defeat al Qaeda.” The president owes some thanks—and apologies—to the men and women of the CIA’s interrogation program.

So Guantanamo detainees provided the key intelligence that allowed the CIA to track down bin Laden. But not just any Guantanamo detainees. It turns out the detainees in question were KSM and Abu Faraj al-Libi, the man who succeeded KSM as al Qaeda’s operational commander, when the 9/11 mastermind was captured in 2003. Obama Owes Thanks for Bin Laden Operation to CIA Interrogators « The Enterprise Blog


So...how does the President share the credit and make up for the threats he made to the careers and efforts of Bush administration officials, and interrogators at Gitmo?

When does he offer the 'Sorry, Guys'?

Oh brother...here we go. First off, Obama has repeatedly said that he will not pursue charges against any CIA interrogators who engaged in torture, nor anyone in the Bush Administration on the torture charges. Your 2009 information is desperately in need of updating.

Second, he has repeatedly given credit to the Bush Administration's efforts over the past few days, including a personal phone call to George Bush, to advise him that OBL had been killed and to thank him for his administration's part in finally tracking him down, and extend an invitation to Ground Zero to participate in the celebration.

Apparently the code name of the courier was given up by KSM during torture, but that was all. It took those several years thereafter to get a real name. But since ALL of the information gleaned from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed remains CLASSIFIED, you don't know any more than I do exactly what more might have been given up.

Since your op is now two days old, I would hope you've been set straight by others, or by just paying better attention to news broadcasts reporting on these details, rather than exclusively devoting yourself to your usual opinion blogs.

 

[MaggieMae]

That is from a highly conservative blog and took vast liberties with the interpretation of what obama actually said.

Blogs are opinions and not facts.

I challenge you to find any aspect or fact that is untrue.

One of your links dates back to 2007; the others are dated in 2009. It's now 2011.

 

[MaggieMae]

That is from a highly conservative blog and took vast liberties with the interpretation of what obama actually said.

Blogs are opinions and not facts.

You are obviously completely uninformed on Obama's position of the Bush administration's so-called 'enhanced interrogation techniques. Either that, or it just kills that the media is now all in agreement that the information that Obama used in finally killing bin Laden was due to Bush.

If you are that uninformed- too ignorant of subject of politics and current events to be in this message forum- here is the video of Obama himself saying that not only does he disagree with Bush's policy, but he was at one point threatening to bring Bush up on charges.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUcCXvWwVQI]YouTube - Obama On Enhanced Interrogation Techniques[/ame]

You sir, are an idiot.

Oh! And there's a video from 2008! Look no one denies that some information came from torture; but the on-the-ground CIA spies are the ones who tracked down the NAME of the courier, which took two years, long after KSM had been tortured. Why can't YOU people acknowledge THAT?

 

[PoliticalChic]

And I gave you the link to the Newsmax video of The Rummy Dummy saying exactly what was quoted and highlighted.

The reason that I said that you were 'close, but wrong,' is that Rumsfeld originally said no waterboarding had been done at Gitmo...and one could have understood him to mean that there had been no waterboarding....

...but the next day he expanded the explanation, not contradicted it....to explain that waterboarding had been done at other locations, and had given valuable info that led to the demise of OBL.

Was that too nuanced for you? Didn't you learn that knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

See...you remain wrong, with egg on your face.

And still no one has said what info was extracted from torture that was so valuable that OBL could not have been found without it!!!!!
KSM fed the CIA false info they wanted to hear under torture. The first usable piece of usable intel, that OBL used couriers, came months after the torture stopped.
So again tell us what actual useful info was acquired by torture!!!!!

"...what info was extracted from torture that was so valuable that OBL could not have been found without it!!!!!"

Well, an imporvement...you're new position is that there was info obtained by waterboarding, Rumsfeld states same, and you give up denying it!

Good start!

Now you just want to quibble as to how valuable it was.....
...love it!

"So again tell us..."
But this is my fav part of the post of liberals: fear of standing up for their beliefs. You pantywaists always resort to the stylistic use of 'us' or 'we' when you mean me or I.
Without a whole group behind you, you are afraid to say anything.

Interesting how you reveal your deepest fears without realizing it.

"So again tell us..."


"was acquired by torture."
There was no torture.
There never was torture.

Now then, let's continue with your education, and attempt to drag you from the dark side"

1. [Rep. Dan] Lungren [(R., CA) and the state's former attorney general] then switched gears to a line of questioning aimed at clarifying the Obama Justice Department’s definition of torture. In one of the rare times he gave a straight answer, Holder stated at the hearing that in his view waterboarding is torture. Lundgren asked if it was the Justice Department’s position that Navy SEALS subjected to waterboarding as part of their training were being tortured.

Holder: No, it’s not torture in the legal sense because you’re not doing it with the intention of harming these people physically or mentally, all we’re trying to do is train them —

Lungren: So it’s the question of intent?
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=117666&styleid=[b]2[/b]


2. Originally Posted by Holder's Justice Department:

[T]orture is defined as “an extreme form of cruel and inhuman treatment and does not include lesser forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. . . . ” 8 C.F.R. § 1208.18(a)(2). Moreover, as has been explained by the Third Circuit, CAT requires “a showing of specific intent before the Court can make a finding that a petitioner will be tortured.” Pierre v. Attorney General, 528 F.3d 180, 189 (3d Cir. 2008) (en banc); see 8 C.F.R. § 1208.18(a)(5) (requiring that the act “be specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering”); Auguste v. Ridge, 395 F.3d 123, 139 (3d Cir. 2005) (“This is a ‘specific intent’ requirement and not a ‘general intent’ requirement” [citations omitted.] An applicant for CAT protection therefore must establish that “his prospective torturer will have the motive or purpose” to torture him. Pierre, 528 F.3d at 189; Auguste, 395 F.3d at 153-54 (“The mere fact that the Haitian authorities have knowledge that severe pain and suffering may result by placing detainees in these conditions does not support a finding that the Haitian authorities intend to inflict severe pain and suffering. The difference goes to the heart of the distinction between general and specific intent.”) . . . . Holder on Waterboarding — Proving It's Not Torture While Insisting It Is - SpursTalk.com - Forums

3. WASHINGTON — Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.[/B

]“Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.

Panetta, who in a 2009 CIA confirmation hearing declared “water-boarding is torture and it’s wrong,” said Tuesday that debate about its use will continue.
“Whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always gonna be an open question,” Panetta said.
“In the intelligence business you work from a lot of sources of information and that was true here,” Panetta said. “We had a multiple source — a multiple series of sources — that provided information with regards to the situation. Clearly some of it came from detainees and the interrogation of detainees but we also had information from other sources as well.”
Panetta’s comments hours after Attorney General Eric Holder defended as lawful Tuesday the intelligence gathering and raid that resulted in the death of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.
Weasel Zippers » Blog Archive » CIA Chief Leon Panetta: Yes, Intelligence From Waterboarded Detainees Was Used to Track Down Bin Laden…


Now, c'mon....put the lie to the gossip that says you're not capable of learning!

 

[MaggieMae]

He definitely deserves some credit. Bush kept pressure on Osama for nearly 7 years, demolished his safe haven in Afghanistan, and killed off nearly every underling OBL had. At the time of OBL's death, Al Queda was running on its 11th and 12th stringers because everyone else up the ticket was dead or rotting in Gitmo.

Obama also deserves credit though. That was a gutsy call taking a unilateral action in a sovereign nation. Plus, 7 years of work is besides the point if you do nothing at all for 2 years. Obama following up on Bush's work ended up carrying the day.

This is a tough one for the true partisans. Right Wingers have tried to say that Obama bore full and total responsibility for everything that happened from the day he was elected forward. And now Obama has brought down OBL, so by that logic Obama gets the full credit. Left Wingers have blamed everything that's happened under Obama on Bush, which means by that logic OBL's take down is Bush's victory.

Rational folks will realize that this one is a win for both Bush and Obama. I'm sad that so few folks will see it that way though.

Actually, MOST grownups DO see it that way. It's only the pure Obama haters who don't, and nothing he ever does will be deemed worthy of approval. The hatred is nauseatingly ignorant and childish.

 

[MaggieMae]

He definitely deserves some credit. Bush kept pressure on Osama for nearly 7 years, demolished his safe haven in Afghanistan, and killed off nearly every underling OBL had. At the time of OBL's death, Al Queda was running on its 11th and 12th stringers because everyone else up the ticket was dead or rotting in Gitmo.

Obama also deserves credit though. That was a gutsy call taking a unilateral action in a sovereign nation. Plus, 7 years of work is besides the point if you do nothing at all for 2 years. Obama following up on Bush's work ended up carrying the day.

This is a tough one for the true partisans. Right Wingers have tried to say that Obama bore full and total responsibility for everything that happened from the day he was elected forward. And now Obama has brought down OBL, so by that logic Obama gets the full credit. Left Wingers have blamed everything that's happened under Obama on Bush, which means by that logic OBL's take down is Bush's victory.

Rational folks will realize that this one is a win for both Bush and Obama. I'm sad that so few folks will see it that way though.

Doc,...it's no fun when you're even handed in these situations!

Can you be less fair, and fight?????

Yes, President Obama deserves credit for the event, especially as
the previous Democrat administration had no stomach to do it. Read the following:

"Mr. Richard Clarke, Mr. Sandy Berger, President Clinton are lying about the opportunities they had to kill Osama bin Laden. ...
Men and women at the CIA risked their lives to provide occasions to kill a man we knew had declared war and had attacked America four or five times before 1998. We had plans that had been approved by the Joint Operations Command at Fort Bragg. We had opportunities, many opportunities to kill him.

But that's the president's decision. That's absolutely the case. It's not a simple, dumb bureaucrat like me; that's not my decision. It's his. But for him to get on the television and say to the American people he did all he could is a flat lie, sir....

"Mr. Clarke, Mr. Berger, Mr. Clinton did have opportunities that were delivered by the men and women of the CIA to kill Osama bin Laden. In the first eight months of the Bush administration, there were no such opportunities."

Read more: Ex-CIA Agent Scheuer Responds to Clinton

Now then, the reason for the OP?

When I saw the many posts this morn demanding that President Obama be given credit, the historic accuracy needed to be inserted.

Simply, he used the plans, designs, methods and results of folks who he slandered and threatened with the weight of the legislative and judicial power of the United States, much as Scooter Libby was thrown in jail for the wrong political side of a debate.

That very much militates against any credit he deserves.

Michael Scheuer sticks his finger to the wind to see which way it's blowing. He uses a lot of speculation to come to his conclusions, and he was highly critical of the Bush Administration as well as Clinton's in being able to nail bin Laden. Scheuer knows damned well that there were extradition problems when bin Laden had taken refuge in The Sudan, the only time during the Clinton Administration where they had a clear chance of getting him. Yet he broadly implies that they had many opportunities and loves to whine about the fact that he was ignored because the administration too concerned about civilian casualties. Well, yeah... bin Laden hadn't yet performed an act of war by blowing up the WTC and the Pentagon, and was classified a criminal and not an enemy terrorist at the time.

 

[MaggieMae]

Just to throw a little gas on the fire,,,,,,

How Did the CIA Find bin Laden? A Phone Call, a Courier, and Years of Detective Work
<snip>

Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.

How Did the CIA Find bin Laden? A Phone Call, a Courier, and Years of Detective Work | The Blaze

FINALLY!! Somebody else who actually was paying attention on May 3, 2011.

 

[MaggieMae]

This is a farce.

Torture revealed very little useful information. From what I understand what they got out of KSM was the that Osama was using couriers instead of cell phones and not much more.

That's something they probably figured out on their own anyway.

The waterboarding caused much more damages in terms of the rule of law..and statecraft..then that little tibit of information.

What they learned was the identity of the 'couriers,' ... Michaela and Tareq Salahi...and they followed them to the party at the OBL compound.

The same dude who forged the birth certificate got the name SEALS onto the clipboard...they got past the velvet rope, and the rest is history!

Now the Discover Channel has signed the SEALS into a new reality show "Extreme Home Makeover.'
See, my posts can be as funny as yours!

There was nothing intended to be funny about his, but I wouldn't quit my day job if I were you. Yours isn't funny at all.

 

[MaggieMae]

mmmmm hacky thread, but typical from PC

But I betcha it won't get absorbed into the thread from hell.

That's the only reason I picked this one. I hope I'm not a jinx.

 

[MaggieMae]

Torture does not stop being wrong just because it works, IF it did.

It DID, and it DOES...GTMO remains open.

I don't think much "torture" went on at Gitmo. That's where they landed AFTER interrogation/torture. And the biggest factor in keeping it open is the outcry from the public in transferring prisoners to maximum security prisons state-side. You should be thankful Obama bowed to the will of the people.

 

[MaggieMae]

Waterboarding is NOT torture.. and for you titty babies who think so, get your pampers changed and grow a set..

Or what, Ranger Rick? You gonna shoot us?

 

[MaggieMae]

Credit for what?

Killing one person?

It's far too late for bin Laden's death to be any great strategic victory.

The war goes on.

Yeah, but did you see them dancing in the streets in the middle east? This looks to be a big win in the middle east, I don't know how long that will last.

It's clear from the revolutions in those regions recently that they want no part of bin Laden or al-Qaeda. What would they offer that would be any better than the stifling regimes they sought to oust? There has been no anti-American rioting at all. None.

 

[edthecynic]

The reason that I said that you were 'close, but wrong,' is that Rumsfeld originally said no waterboarding had been done at Gitmo...and one could have understood him to mean that there had been no waterboarding....

...but the next day he expanded the explanation, not contradicted it....to explain that waterboarding had been done at other locations, and had given valuable info that led to the demise of OBL.

Was that too nuanced for you? Didn't you learn that knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

See...you remain wrong, with egg on your face.

And still no one has said what info was extracted from torture that was so valuable that OBL could not have been found without it!!!!!
KSM fed the CIA false info they wanted to hear under torture. The first usable piece of usable intel, that OBL used couriers, came months after the torture stopped.
So again tell us what actual useful info was acquired by torture!!!!!

"...what info was extracted from torture that was so valuable that OBL could not have been found without it!!!!!"

Well, an imporvement...you're new position is that there was info obtained by waterboarding, Rumsfeld states same, and you give up denying it!

Good start!

Now you just want to quibble as to how valuable it was.....
...love it!

No my argument still is there was nothing obtained by torture that led to getting OBL, proven by the fact you can't give it and therefore you create a Straw Man. As I said torture only produced FALSE info. It's your position that FALSE info is still info and therefore justifies your sadistic desire for torturing people.

 

[MaggieMae]

Your rebuttal has all of the philosophical content and intellectual impact of “oh, yeah?”

"It would be more of a challenge to find any aspect or fact that is true."

Hey, DenseAsABrick, I realize that you must be so proud to have managed to string 16 or so words together, but you should begin to consider substance as well as form.

As I have entered into your remediation, I'll go on to point out that hyperbole as in your first sentence obviates anything else in the post.

Anyone who has been alert and followed the course of events over the last three or four years, and is able to post on the USMB, knows that the OP is factual, and, therefore, would discount anything else that you write.

Get it?

I know you can do better.
Try to find specific elements which you can prove, via links and documentation, to be false. Or at least questionable or debatable....
...if you can.

For example, essentially the OP claims that President Obama
1. claimed that no useful info was obtained by extreme interrogation....seems he was wrong.

2. President Obama and his henchmen began the process of indictment of the interrogators, a process that would have ruined, bankrupt and even jailed the very folks who protected American during those darkest days....and now uses the info that they obtained to pad his resume.
Doesn't seem very noble, does it.

3. owes apologies all around.

There, did I help?

Go for it, BeatWithANightstick!

Actually, as I pointed out, Obama was 100% Right!!! You just can't admit you swallowed your MessiahRushie's bullshit.

The Washington Monthly

May 3, 2011
STANDARD INTERROGATION.... So far, Republican attempts to spin the killing of Osama bin Laden in the GOP's favor haven't gone well.

Like so many memes that persist in politics, this one started on the Internet. The morning after President Obama announced that Osama bin Laden had been killed in Pakistan, conservatives started crowing that credit should be given to President George W. Bush -- specifically, for having the foresight and courage to torture the people who provided the initial scraps of intel that ultimately led the CIA to a giant compound just north of Islamabad.
The most prominent of these conservatives was Rep. Steve King (R-IA), who took to Twitter to ask sardonically, "Wonder what President Obama thinks of water boarding now?"
​

The idea made the rounds yesterday based on one important piece of the larger puzzle: several years ago, intelligence agencies obtained the pseudonym of OBL's favorite courier from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Faraj al-Libi.
Republicans and like-minded activists -- including Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, assorted Tea Partiers, and others -- jumped to a conclusion: U.S. officials gained the information via torture.
Except, that's not what happened.
Donald Rumsfeld, of all people, threw cold water on the new talking point yesterday, noting that Bush-era torture policies weren't responsible for obtaining the information.
The Associated Press further set the record straight, reporting, "Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation."
Brian Beutler added, "Thus, a big chunk of the rationale for giving the Bush credit for bin Laden's death falls apart. It took officials until Obama's presidency to locate this courier, and well into Obama's second year in office before they found the compound. Only then was the raid itself designed and, on Sunday, implemented."

You know what they say, close only counts in horseshoes, handgrenades and dancing...but your post is also, sort of close.

Wrong, but sort of close.

Must I constantly help you see the light???


Check this out, FredTheCricket:

1. Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld:
“CIA Director Panetta indicated that one of the individuals who provided important information had in fact been waterboarded… There was some confusion today on some programs, even one on FOX I think, suggesting that I indicated that no one who was waterboarded at Guantanamo provided any information on this. It’s not true. No one was waterboarded at Guantanamo by the US military. In fact no one was waterboarded at Guantanamo period. Three people were waterboarded by the CIA away from Guantanamo and then later were brought to Guantanamo. And, in fact, as you pointed out the information from these individuals was critically important.”
Sorry Lefties… Rumsfeld Says Waterboarding Led US to Osama Bin Laden (Video) | The Gateway Pundit


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDcbiZBwdzw&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Sorry Lefties... Rumsfeld Says Waterboarding Led US to Osama[/ame]

2. WASHINGTON — Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.

“Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.
Panetta, who in a 2009 CIA confirmation hearing declared “water-boarding is torture and it’s wrong,” said Tuesday that debate about its use will continue.

Panetta’s comments hours after Attorney General Eric Holder defended as lawful Tuesday the intelligence gathering and raid that resulted in the death of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.
Weasel Zippers » Blog Archive » CIA Chief Leon Panetta: Yes, Intelligence From Waterboarded Detainees Was Used to Track Down Bin Laden…


Now, let's proceed to the part that explains what happened to the folks who are easily manipulated...that would be you and GT, I guess....

3." But one Democratic communications hand sent advice to a slew of other Democratic operatives in the wake of the announcement hammering on the need to make sure Obama comes out on top.

“In your day jobs, do not let Republicans turn this into continuing the Bush legacy. This has to be about Obama’s decisive leadership,” the guidance said. “He is the one who oversaw bringing bin Laden to justice, much like how Bush failed to do so at Tora Bora and then claimed Osama wasn’t a priority.”

For Democrats, the argument is critical because they don’t want to let credibility on national security issues slip back into their post-Vietnam home in the Republican Party. And they need to fight the insinuation, fed by recent NATO action in Libya that one official characterized as “leading from behind,” that Obama is a weak leader."The next front: Claiming credit for Osama bin Laden's death - Kasie Hunt and Mike Allen - POLITICO.com


Get that? That's you there're aiming to confuse...er, convince.
Worked, huh?

Stop crying....you're not the only lefties that were made to look really, really dumb.
You'll bounce back....after all...

...you prove that you're never too old to learn something dumb.


BTW, I heard an interview with Richard Miniter, his book "Mastermind," is coming out today...and his evidence was that KSM was waterboarded, and sang like a birdie for a year!

Oh Good God...now the hacks come to the defense of Donald Rumsfeld, who, if it weren't for his massive fuckups all around, we might not even be having discussions about our debt. Did Rummy forget that he was the one who held back giving General Franks the order to take out bin Laden at Tora Bora which gave him enough time to slip across the border? At the time, Rummy was way too busy planning his invasion of Iraq to be bothered with bin Laden.

What next can we expect from your giant repertoire of right wing spin? That so-and-so claims bin Laden wasn't nearly as bad a fella as Saddam Hussein?

 

[MaggieMae]

From the information that has been made public, enhanced interrogations under the Bush Admin. did indeed harvest information that sequentially lead to the location of UBL.
What Rumsfeld even further explained- that the information garnered was not always immediate. Sometimes it took months after waterboarding, or the info would be slowly letted by the prisoners....after being subjected to enhanced interrogation. The psychological distress of being put on a leash like a dog, with pyjamas on and made to bark......many anguishly revealed info over and after sometimes long periods of time.
Starting in 2004, vital knowledge was aquired under the Bush Admin. and operations.
It was a well done call for Pres. Obama to advance the info, and eventually lead to the termination of UBL.
I do hope, Obama does not use the death of UBL as a campaign gesture to continue his political ambitions. Noting that G.Bush declined Obama's invitation to ground zero....because it is Bush's intent to quietly reminisce and remember with others at ground zero on the Anniversary.

Where did all that come from? Obviously just another opinion. It's all you people have.

I'll be sure to check to make sure he's "reminiscing" on 9/11/11

 

[Wicked Jester]

That is from a highly conservative blog and took vast liberties with the interpretation of what obama actually said.

Blogs are opinions and not facts.

You are obviously completely uninformed on Obama's position of the Bush administration's so-called 'enhanced interrogation techniques. Either that, or it just kills that the media is now all in agreement that the information that Obama used in finally killing bin Laden was due to Bush.

If you are that uninformed- too ignorant of subject of politics and current events to be in this message forum- here is the video of Obama himself saying that not only does he disagree with Bush's policy, but he was at one point threatening to bring Bush up on charges.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUcCXvWwVQI]YouTube - Obama On Enhanced Interrogation Techniques[/ame]

You sir, are an idiot.

Oh! And there's a video from 2008! Look no one denies that some information came from torture; but the on-the-ground CIA spies are the ones who tracked down the NAME of the courier, which took two years, long after KSM had been tortured. Why can't YOU people acknowledge THAT?

You can spit and spin until the very last cows come home, as all of the loony lefty talking, er, cackling heads have been doing since Panetta told the truth....Fact is, non-torterous Waterboarding works. As fully evidenced these past couple o' days.

Look, I understand that it is absolutley killing you lib's to yet again see your beloved loony liberal politicians proven wrong yet again. Yet again, all the cackling from Obama, Pelosi, Hillary, Biden Kerry, and many other of your beloved loons vehemently denying that waterboarding works has blown up directy in their faces.

Time to wake up lib's, and start dealing with the realities........All the spitting and spinning will not change reality.

 

[MaggieMae]

Whenever CON$ stoop to arrogant condescension, they know they are wrong.
Thank you.

Panetta was not in the CIA when KSM was captured or tortured. As was pointed out, KSM was waterboarded by the CIA in March 2003 and all torture techniques were halted by the CIA in 2004. In 2005 the CIA still did not have the name of the courier.

And The Rummy Dummy admitted to Newsmax that the info that led to the killing of OBL was acquired by normal interrogation means.

Rumsfeld Exclusive: There Was No Waterboarding of Courier Source

Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tells Newsmax the information that led to the killing of Osama bin Laden was obtained through “normal interrogation approaches”


“The United States Department of Defense did not do waterboarding for interrogation purposes to anyone. It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance. But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding.”

Rumsfeld's comment to Fox was to clarify that no torture was done at Guantanamo, period. None at all.

 

[MaggieMae]

actually, what leon panetta said is that it's impossible to know where information came from because it came from so many sources. but i will say that panetta turned out to be one tough dude.

1.ac·tu·al·ly/&#712;akCHo&#862;o&#601;l&#275;/Adverb
1. As the truth or facts of a situation; really: "the time actually worked on a job".
2. Used to emphasize that something someone has said or done is surprising: "he actually expected me to be pleased about it!".

2. Use quotation marks [ “ ” ] to set off material that represents quoted or spoken language.
Quotation Marks

3. ac·knowl·edge/ak&#712;nälij/Verb
1. Accept or admit the existence or truth of.
2. (of a body of opinion) Recognize the fact or importance or quality of

4. “Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.


Retract?

What part of NO ONE DISPUTES THAT SOME LEADS CAME FROM TORTURE CONFESSIONS? don't you get? You seem to think we're denying that, when we're not. It's simply a matter of what and how much, and as I said earlier, no one from the general public knows the extent of those quantifiers, not even certain people who like to have everyone think they're privy to top secret information.

 

[MaggieMae]

The key to locating bin Laden was tracking the courier, period. It really doesn't matter at all that CIA interrogators learned several years ago that "couriers were being used" because without names, it meant squat.

Here's some of the background (which reads like a novel, not a boring news story):

Osama’s kill backstory – code name to confirm was Geronimo | Thoughtful India

The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA’s so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized for their involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.

“We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day,” said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.

Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.

It took years of work for intelligence agencies to identify the courier’s real name, which officials are not disclosing. When they did identify him, he was nowhere to be found. The CIA’s sources didn’t know where he was hiding. Bin Laden was famously insistent that no phones or computers be used near him, so the eavesdroppers at the National Security Agency kept coming up cold.

Then in the middle of last year, the courier had a telephone conversation with someone who was being monitored by U.S. intelligence, according to an American official, who like others interviewed for this story spoke only on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation. The courier was located somewhere away from bin Laden’s hideout when he had the discussion, but it was enough to help intelligence officials locate and watch him.

Waterboarding or not isn't the subject. The CIA got lucky; the American people got lucky as a result of their superior work; and our top notch military guys shot him dead. We're all winners, so stop the coulda/woulda/shoulda blame game.