Can we reasonably discuss Trump?

Boss

Take a Memo:
Apr 21, 2012
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Okay, so the election happened and the transition is over. Donald John Trump is officially our 45th President of the United States of America. Some of us supported him enthusiastically, some of us held our noses and voted for him, some of us couldn't vote for him, some of us opposed him strongly and some probably didn't care one way or another. But he's now the president and he'll be the president unless he dies or gets impeached. Love him or hate him, that's now a fact of life.

I've been patient with those who supported Clinton and had to work through the shock of losing the election because I know how this feels. It takes you a while to work through the emotions and come to terms with things. In the meantime, you might say things that aren't very reasonable. I think we've all had time to let this soak in now and it's time we get on with the business of life.

I keep seeing these comments on social media and elsewhere about Trump being a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Hitler-like, etc. Whenever you question someone about such allegations, they just emote nonsense. They never can really tell me what the man said that supports such a charge. It's always a gross misinterpretation of something he said or did or an outright lie about something he never said or did. You have to twist things out of context and make false assumptions to reach this conclusion. When you have to do that, it's not reasonable. You're not making a reasoned argument.

Look, I totally get that a lot of people don't like his policy ideas. I understand an objection to things he has proposed doing or positions he has taken. I don't agree with Trump on everything, in fact, I couldn't actually cast my vote for him in the general. He said too many things that contradict my conservative principles and he just didn't meet my criteria to earn my vote. But he's not a racist. He's not a homophobe or misogynist. I see no comparison whatsoever to Hitler. I don't even think he is a narcissist. He's very confident in himself, I'll give you that. He can be very cocky and abrasively arrogant, and sometimes that can be construed as narcissism.

So now, if you have calmed down emotionally enough to reasonably discuss Trump, I am willing to entertain your thoughts on these allegations of whatever. This isn't a flame-fest or thread for you to emotively vent your frustration with the outcome of the elections. It's not about policies or politics in general, I realize many people disagree on his policies and politics. This is specifically for the reasoned discussion of Trump's personal views on race, gender, lifestyle, etc. It's time to put your evidence on the table and let's have a reasoned evaluation based on the facts.
 
sure? what do you wanna know specifically? I'm guessing your looking for info you can't find on google alone right?
 
Okay, so the election happened and the transition is over. Donald John Trump is officially our 45th President of the United States of America. Some of us supported him enthusiastically, some of us held our noses and voted for him, some of us couldn't vote for him, some of us opposed him strongly and some probably didn't care one way or another. But he's now the president and he'll be the president unless he dies or gets impeached. Love him or hate him, that's now a fact of life.

I've been patient with those who supported Clinton and had to work through the shock of losing the election because I know how this feels. It takes you a while to work through the emotions and come to terms with things. In the meantime, you might say things that aren't very reasonable. I think we've all had time to let this soak in now and it's time we get on with the business of life.

I keep seeing these comments on social media and elsewhere about Trump being a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Hitler-like, etc. Whenever you question someone about such allegations, they just emote nonsense. They never can really tell me what the man said that supports such a charge. It's always a gross misinterpretation of something he said or did or an outright lie about something he never said or did. You have to twist things out of context and make false assumptions to reach this conclusion. When you have to do that, it's not reasonable. You're not making a reasoned argument.

Look, I totally get that a lot of people don't like his policy ideas. I understand an objection to things he has proposed doing or positions he has taken. I don't agree with Trump on everything, in fact, I couldn't actually cast my vote for him in the general. He said too many things that contradict my conservative principles and he just didn't meet my criteria to earn my vote. But he's not a racist. He's not a homophobe or misogynist. I see no comparison whatsoever to Hitler. I don't even think he is a narcissist. He's very confident in himself, I'll give you that. He can be very cocky and abrasively arrogant, and sometimes that can be construed as narcissism.

So now, if you have calmed down emotionally enough to reasonably discuss Trump, I am willing to entertain your thoughts on these allegations of whatever. This isn't a flame-fest or thread for you to emotively vent your frustration with the outcome of the elections. It's not about policies or politics in general, I realize many people disagree on his policies and politics. This is specifically for the reasoned discussion of Trump's personal views on race, gender, lifestyle, etc. It's time to put your evidence on the table and let's have a reasoned evaluation based on the facts.

There ain't no "can be construed" about it, at all. He's the MODEL of classic Narcissistic Personality Disorder. No one else would be literally up all night sending whiny tweets at 3 in the morning. He's severely mentally ill. There's simply no question about that.

However, that's nothing we didn't all know before the election, so it's not in any way news.

As far as racist/misogynist etc --- who knows. Given that he's a born liar and con artist who's out to manipulate people for his own benefit (again, Numero Uno), it's hard to find evidence. Manipulating other people's bigoted views of racism, religious or ethnic hatred, whatever, is not the same thing as actually holding those views oneself. With a con artist you really can't tell what he really believes personally ----- as distinct from what he believes will benefit him personally.

I do believe he's a misogynist though. There's way too much evidence.
 
First off, stuff your condescending attitude. Trump fans have been the irrational ones after the election, not us, and you really ought to apologize for being so hysterical. We get it, you're butthurt because we keep pointing out your immorality, and you aren't able to bully us into stopping. Tough luck. Deal with it, snowflake.

Now, let's start the cycle of you evading again. All of this was discussed in detail during the campaign, so it's causing major eye-rolls when you pretend not to have seen it.

One reason we say Trump is a thief -- he made it a policy to stiff his contractors (we can get into his policy of stiffing his shareholders and stiffing his customers later.)

USA TODAY exclusive: Hundreds allege Donald Trump doesn’t pay his bills

He would almost never pay a contractor what the contract said. He would always find fault, and then offer half, and say "take it or take me to court", knowing that most contractors couldn't afford to take him to court.

To most people, that's robbery, a rich guy robbing small contractors because he can.

What do you think of the tactic? That is, assuming you won't deny he used it, or say everyone did it, or evade in some other fashion.
 
From the Mayo Clinic website:

Many experts use the criteria in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), published by the American Psychiatric Association, to diagnose mental conditions. This manual is also used by insurance companies to reimburse for treatment.

DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:

  • Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
  • Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
  • Exaggerating your achievements and talents
  • Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
  • Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
  • Requiring constant admiration
  • Having a sense of entitlement
  • Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
  • Taking advantage of others to get what you want
  • Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
  • Being envious of others and believing others envy you
  • Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner
-- Note that that's not a cherrypicked list to make Rump fit ... that's the entire list. He fits every single characteristic.
 
my concern with Trump is he doesn't fight for what he believes in on certain issues. for example, he believes in the death penalty. why not call for the death penalty to all those folks who burned limousines and the rest? why not lock Hillary up for her crimes? why not lock up Madonna for sayin she wants to "blow up the white house"???
 
Okay, so the election happened and the transition is over. Donald John Trump is officially our 45th President of the United States of America. Some of us supported him enthusiastically, some of us held our noses and voted for him, some of us couldn't vote for him, some of us opposed him strongly and some probably didn't care one way or another. But he's now the president and he'll be the president unless he dies or gets impeached. Love him or hate him, that's now a fact of life.

I've been patient with those who supported Clinton and had to work through the shock of losing the election because I know how this feels. It takes you a while to work through the emotions and come to terms with things. In the meantime, you might say things that aren't very reasonable. I think we've all had time to let this soak in now and it's time we get on with the business of life.

I keep seeing these comments on social media and elsewhere about Trump being a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Hitler-like, etc. Whenever you question someone about such allegations, they just emote nonsense. They never can really tell me what the man said that supports such a charge. It's always a gross misinterpretation of something he said or did or an outright lie about something he never said or did. You have to twist things out of context and make false assumptions to reach this conclusion. When you have to do that, it's not reasonable. You're not making a reasoned argument.

Look, I totally get that a lot of people don't like his policy ideas. I understand an objection to things he has proposed doing or positions he has taken. I don't agree with Trump on everything, in fact, I couldn't actually cast my vote for him in the general. He said too many things that contradict my conservative principles and he just didn't meet my criteria to earn my vote. But he's not a racist. He's not a homophobe or misogynist. I see no comparison whatsoever to Hitler. I don't even think he is a narcissist. He's very confident in himself, I'll give you that. He can be very cocky and abrasively arrogant, and sometimes that can be construed as narcissism.

So now, if you have calmed down emotionally enough to reasonably discuss Trump, I am willing to entertain your thoughts on these allegations of whatever. This isn't a flame-fest or thread for you to emotively vent your frustration with the outcome of the elections. It's not about policies or politics in general, I realize many people disagree on his policies and politics. This is specifically for the reasoned discussion of Trump's personal views on race, gender, lifestyle, etc. It's time to put your evidence on the table and let's have a reasoned evaluation based on the facts.

There ain't no "can be construed" about it, at all. He's the MODEL of classic Narcissistic Personality Disorder. No one else would be literally up all night sending whiny tweets at 3 in the morning. He's severely mentally ill. There's simply no question about that.

However, that's nothing we didn't all know before the election, so it's not in any way news.

As far as racist/misogynist etc --- who knows. Given that he's a born liar and con artist who's out to manipulate people for his own benefit (again, Numero Uno), it's hard to find evidence. Manipulating other people's bigoted views of racism, religious or ethnic hatred, whatever, is not the same thing as actually holding those views oneself. With a con artist you really can't tell what he really believes personally ----- as distinct from what he believes will benefit him personally.

I do believe he's a misogynist though. There's way too much evidence.

He has an obsession now. He won't fail..


The guy is driven like a man we never seen before..
 
sure? what do you wanna know specifically? I'm guessing your looking for info you can't find on google alone right?

No, I am honestly trying to get to the bottom of what is causing all this overblown emotional anguish with some in our society. I don't understand it. This man has been in the public eye for 50 years and has never shown any indication of racism as far as I know, but suddenly he's a flaming racist. Same with women... yeah, he's been married a few times but so what? Homophobia? He's the most pro-LGBT candidate to ever win an election. So what is the root of all this? Where is it coming from? Is it simply about politics and nothing else? Is it because he's pro-life? Supports the 2nd Amendment? Wants to stop illegal immigration?

I think he is being falsely and irrationally judged based on hyperbole and rhetoric... nothing more. You've chosen to attack him personally because you don't agree with him politically. That's what I think.
 
sure? what do you wanna know specifically? I'm guessing your looking for info you can't find on google alone right?

No, I am honestly trying to get to the bottom of what is causing all this overblown emotional anguish with some in our society. I don't understand it. This man has been in the public eye for 50 years and has never shown any indication of racism as far as I know, but suddenly he's a flaming racist. Same with women... yeah, he's been married a few times but so what? Homophobia? He's the most pro-LGBT candidate to ever win an election. So what is the root of all this? Where is it coming from? Is it simply about politics and nothing else? Is it because he's pro-life? Supports the 2nd Amendment? Wants to stop illegal immigration?

I think he is being falsely and irrationally judged based on hyperbole and rhetoric... nothing more. You've chosen to attack him personally because you don't agree with him politically. That's what I think.

Dude. No one has called Rump a "racist" except you and your strawman.
 
First off, stuff your condescending attitude. Trump fans have been the irrational ones after the election, not us, and you really ought to apologize for being so hysterical. We get it, you're butthurt because we keep pointing out your immorality, and you aren't able to bully us into stopping. Tough luck. Deal with it, snowflake.

Now, let's start the cycle of you evading again. All of this was discussed in detail during the campaign, so it's causing major eye-rolls when you pretend not to have seen it.

One reason we say Trump is a thief -- he made it a policy to stiff his contractors (we can get into his policy of stiffing his shareholders and stiffing his customers later.)

USA TODAY exclusive: Hundreds allege Donald Trump doesn’t pay his bills

He would almost never pay a contractor what the contract said. He would always find fault, and then offer half, and say "take it or take me to court", knowing that most contractors couldn't afford to take him to court.

To most people, that's robbery, a rich guy robbing small contractors because he can.

What do you think of the tactic? That is, assuming you won't deny he used it, or say everyone did it, or evade in some other fashion.

Yes we know you would pay the guy who ripped you off.
 
Okay, so the election happened and the transition is over. Donald John Trump is officially our 45th President of the United States of America. Some of us supported him enthusiastically, some of us held our noses and voted for him, some of us couldn't vote for him, some of us opposed him strongly and some probably didn't care one way or another. But he's now the president and he'll be the president unless he dies or gets impeached. Love him or hate him, that's now a fact of life.

I've been patient with those who supported Clinton and had to work through the shock of losing the election because I know how this feels. It takes you a while to work through the emotions and come to terms with things. In the meantime, you might say things that aren't very reasonable. I think we've all had time to let this soak in now and it's time we get on with the business of life.

I keep seeing these comments on social media and elsewhere about Trump being a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Hitler-like, etc. Whenever you question someone about such allegations, they just emote nonsense. They never can really tell me what the man said that supports such a charge. It's always a gross misinterpretation of something he said or did or an outright lie about something he never said or did. You have to twist things out of context and make false assumptions to reach this conclusion. When you have to do that, it's not reasonable. You're not making a reasoned argument.

Look, I totally get that a lot of people don't like his policy ideas. I understand an objection to things he has proposed doing or positions he has taken. I don't agree with Trump on everything, in fact, I couldn't actually cast my vote for him in the general. He said too many things that contradict my conservative principles and he just didn't meet my criteria to earn my vote. But he's not a racist. He's not a homophobe or misogynist. I see no comparison whatsoever to Hitler. I don't even think he is a narcissist. He's very confident in himself, I'll give you that. He can be very cocky and abrasively arrogant, and sometimes that can be construed as narcissism.

So now, if you have calmed down emotionally enough to reasonably discuss Trump, I am willing to entertain your thoughts on these allegations of whatever. This isn't a flame-fest or thread for you to emotively vent your frustration with the outcome of the elections. It's not about policies or politics in general, I realize many people disagree on his policies and politics. This is specifically for the reasoned discussion of Trump's personal views on race, gender, lifestyle, etc. It's time to put your evidence on the table and let's have a reasoned evaluation based on the facts.



Optimism is a form of courage.


You must be very, very brave.
 
sure? what do you wanna know specifically? I'm guessing your looking for info you can't find on google alone right?

No, I am honestly trying to get to the bottom of what is causing all this overblown emotional anguish with some in our society. I don't understand it. This man has been in the public eye for 50 years and has never shown any indication of racism as far as I know, but suddenly he's a flaming racist. Same with women... yeah, he's been married a few times but so what? Homophobia? He's the most pro-LGBT candidate to ever win an election. So what is the root of all this? Where is it coming from? Is it simply about politics and nothing else? Is it because he's pro-life? Supports the 2nd Amendment? Wants to stop illegal immigration?

I think he is being falsely and irrationally judged based on hyperbole and rhetoric... nothing more. You've chosen to attack him personally because you don't agree with him politically. That's what I think.
well you seem confident in your reasoning? why ask anything at all?

by the way, "the most pro-LGBT candidate to ever win an election" wouldn't pick somebody like pence
 
Okay, so the election happened and the transition is over. Donald John Trump is officially our 45th President of the United States of America. Some of us supported him enthusiastically, some of us held our noses and voted for him, some of us couldn't vote for him, some of us opposed him strongly and some probably didn't care one way or another. But he's now the president and he'll be the president unless he dies or gets impeached. Love him or hate him, that's now a fact of life.

I've been patient with those who supported Clinton and had to work through the shock of losing the election because I know how this feels. It takes you a while to work through the emotions and come to terms with things. In the meantime, you might say things that aren't very reasonable. I think we've all had time to let this soak in now and it's time we get on with the business of life.

I keep seeing these comments on social media and elsewhere about Trump being a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Hitler-like, etc. Whenever you question someone about such allegations, they just emote nonsense. They never can really tell me what the man said that supports such a charge. It's always a gross misinterpretation of something he said or did or an outright lie about something he never said or did. You have to twist things out of context and make false assumptions to reach this conclusion. When you have to do that, it's not reasonable. You're not making a reasoned argument.

Look, I totally get that a lot of people don't like his policy ideas. I understand an objection to things he has proposed doing or positions he has taken. I don't agree with Trump on everything, in fact, I couldn't actually cast my vote for him in the general. He said too many things that contradict my conservative principles and he just didn't meet my criteria to earn my vote. But he's not a racist. He's not a homophobe or misogynist. I see no comparison whatsoever to Hitler. I don't even think he is a narcissist. He's very confident in himself, I'll give you that. He can be very cocky and abrasively arrogant, and sometimes that can be construed as narcissism.

So now, if you have calmed down emotionally enough to reasonably discuss Trump, I am willing to entertain your thoughts on these allegations of whatever. This isn't a flame-fest or thread for you to emotively vent your frustration with the outcome of the elections. It's not about policies or politics in general, I realize many people disagree on his policies and politics. This is specifically for the reasoned discussion of Trump's personal views on race, gender, lifestyle, etc. It's time to put your evidence on the table and let's have a reasoned evaluation based on the facts.

I was moved by all the outright and truly appalling media lying and misrepresentation to vote for Trump, as a protest, and so were many others. As we can see here, most of the Hillary supporters are to narcissistic and ignorant to grasp why their fake news and hype didn't swing the election ... i.e., half-wits with high esteem, they major products of the current modern education system. The current waves of board spamming by the cretins is of course making it even more obvious why he won and will win again.
 
sure? what do you wanna know specifically? I'm guessing your looking for info you can't find on google alone right?

No, I am honestly trying to get to the bottom of what is causing all this overblown emotional anguish with some in our society. I don't understand it. This man has been in the public eye for 50 years and has never shown any indication of racism as far as I know, but suddenly he's a flaming racist. Same with women... yeah, he's been married a few times but so what? Homophobia? He's the most pro-LGBT candidate to ever win an election. So what is the root of all this? Where is it coming from? Is it simply about politics and nothing else? Is it because he's pro-life? Supports the 2nd Amendment? Wants to stop illegal immigration?

I think he is being falsely and irrationally judged based on hyperbole and rhetoric... nothing more. You've chosen to attack him personally because you don't agree with him politically. That's what I think.

You missed the part where Obama was attacked for over eight years? The outrageousness of many of those attacks?
 
There ain't no "can be construed" about it, at all. He's the MODEL of classic Narcissistic Personality Disorder. No one else would be literally up all night sending whiny tweets at 3 in the morning. He's severely mentally ill. There's simply no question about that.

Where is your Doctor of Psychology degree? I think there IS a question about it and you've not presented any evidence. Lots of people are up at 3am. That's sure as hell not a sign of mental illness.

I do believe he's a misogynist though. There's way too much evidence.

Let's pony up with it!
 
sure? what do you wanna know specifically? I'm guessing your looking for info you can't find on google alone right?

No, I am honestly trying to get to the bottom of what is causing all this overblown emotional anguish with some in our society. I don't understand it. This man has been in the public eye for 50 years and has never shown any indication of racism as far as I know, but suddenly he's a flaming racist. Same with women... yeah, he's been married a few times but so what? Homophobia? He's the most pro-LGBT candidate to ever win an election. So what is the root of all this? Where is it coming from? Is it simply about politics and nothing else? Is it because he's pro-life? Supports the 2nd Amendment? Wants to stop illegal immigration?

I think he is being falsely and irrationally judged based on hyperbole and rhetoric... nothing more. You've chosen to attack him personally because you don't agree with him politically. That's what I think.

Dude. No one has called Rump a "racist" except you and your strawman.

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Okay, so the election happened and the transition is over. Donald John Trump is officially our 45th President of the United States of America. Some of us supported him enthusiastically, some of us held our noses and voted for him, some of us couldn't vote for him, some of us opposed him strongly and some probably didn't care one way or another. But he's now the president and he'll be the president unless he dies or gets impeached. Love him or hate him, that's now a fact of life.

I've been patient with those who supported Clinton and had to work through the shock of losing the election because I know how this feels. It takes you a while to work through the emotions and come to terms with things. In the meantime, you might say things that aren't very reasonable. I think we've all had time to let this soak in now and it's time we get on with the business of life.

I keep seeing these comments on social media and elsewhere about Trump being a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Hitler-like, etc. Whenever you question someone about such allegations, they just emote nonsense. They never can really tell me what the man said that supports such a charge. It's always a gross misinterpretation of something he said or did or an outright lie about something he never said or did. You have to twist things out of context and make false assumptions to reach this conclusion. When you have to do that, it's not reasonable. You're not making a reasoned argument.

Look, I totally get that a lot of people don't like his policy ideas. I understand an objection to things he has proposed doing or positions he has taken. I don't agree with Trump on everything, in fact, I couldn't actually cast my vote for him in the general. He said too many things that contradict my conservative principles and he just didn't meet my criteria to earn my vote. But he's not a racist. He's not a homophobe or misogynist. I see no comparison whatsoever to Hitler. I don't even think he is a narcissist. He's very confident in himself, I'll give you that. He can be very cocky and abrasively arrogant, and sometimes that can be construed as narcissism.

So now, if you have calmed down emotionally enough to reasonably discuss Trump, I am willing to entertain your thoughts on these allegations of whatever. This isn't a flame-fest or thread for you to emotively vent your frustration with the outcome of the elections. It's not about policies or politics in general, I realize many people disagree on his policies and politics. This is specifically for the reasoned discussion of Trump's personal views on race, gender, lifestyle, etc. It's time to put your evidence on the table and let's have a reasoned evaluation based on the facts.

I was moved by all the outright and truly appalling media lying and misrepresentation to vote for Trump, as a protest, and so were many others. As we can see here, most of the Hillary supporters are to narcissistic and ignorant to grasp why their fake news and hype didn't swing the election ... i.e., half-wits with high esteem, they major products of the current modern education system. The current waves of board spamming by the cretins is of course making it even more obvious why he won and will win again.

You couldn't be more delusional if a group of engineers had been tasked to build you that way.
 

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