Can Texas be put in play?

[Redfish]

if obama can make voters out of illegals then texas can be in play. Does anyone on this forum think that people in the country illegally should be allowed to vote? anyone?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Hasn't seemed to hurt the Deomocrats so far. They won the White House, gained seats in both houses, and have the GOP scrambling to game the system in order to remain competative.

I guess we will see - but I've been hearing the GOP going all chicken little on the economy for about five years now - even as the economic indicators inch upward.

But who knows, maybe they'll get lucky and spark another crash.

The carnage wrought by this administration will be profound in four years.

What carnage might that be?

My personal monetary situation, from realestate to investments to income, have all improved substantially in the last four years.

Your anecdotal evidence doesn't change the plight of millions who are jobless.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The carnage wrought by this administration will be profound in four years.

Sorry, but I heard the exact same thing five years ago.... four years ago .... three years ago...

I'm sure you did. Look at our dire conditions right now.

Not as dire as they were five years ago ... four years ago ... three years ago ...

 

[Dubya]

They are here and they aren't going anywhere.
We might as well start getting their tax payments.

Might as well reward em for breaking the law?

Not in imho - I believe that the path to citizenship for illegal aliens should include some penalty. Not a penalty that is so punative that they will just stay undergraound, but a penalty. Not to impose at least some penalty (monetary fine) is a slap in the face to those who jumped through all the hoops to do it legally.

The penalty can be made in monthly payments (of $100 or so for about two years) and the proceeds should be used to bolster border security to help protect from terrorist infiltrations and to makle sure we don't find ourselves in this exact same situation in 30 years.

Just MHO

I don't think there should be a penalty imposed on an illegal immigrant. For one thing they are mostly poor, so taking that money from them just means they aren't going to spend it in the economy. How is it justice to impose a penalty on people who came to America out of need and not pose a penalty on those who hired them out of greed?

There were problems with the Reagan amnesty. They didn't allow people to bring in foreign seasonal farm workers and they didn't enforce laws against employing illegal aliens. Very few illegal aliens will stay in a country, if they can't work. What we need is a system to fine employers who don't verify the legal status of their workers. They should start off with a fine and keep doubling it after each offense. Let's say a company has 3 illegal aliens in it's workforce after immigration reform. I think a fair initial fine would be $1,000 per offense and the expenses to deport the person. During the immigration reform process, the companies or individuals who hire illegals should be given a chance to determine the legal status of the person they have hired and urge them to get into the immigration reform program. If an illegal immigrant has ties to America and isn't someone who just crossed to get citizenship, then they should be given a road to citizenship. Once we are passed immigration reform, there shouldn't be mercy on people or employers abusing the new system. An employer caught hiring illegals 8 times is at the $128,000 per offense level, plus deportation costs. Those costs should include confinement and police escort to a one way ticket out of America. The illegal is allowed to keep property, such as clothing and hygiene products that they can carry, while leaving the country. Other property like a car or TV is confiscated for the fine of being an illegal alien. Any money they have over a certain amount is confiscated.

Immigration reform should include new quotas to allow more immigration to America. We need to grow our way out of our problems. Foreigners who graduated from our colleges and have needed skills should be offered a path to citizenship. We should avoid a system where once illegals are sending money out of the country to support their families. Non-citizens should only get emergency social services and only on the conditions that it's a loan, that has to be repaid. A criminal who hasn't reached citizenship should be deported, unless it's a minor offense.

 

[mudwhistle]

Hasn't seemed to hurt the Deomocrats so far. They won the White House, gained seats in both houses, and have the GOP scrambling to game the system in order to remain competative.

I guess we will see - but I've been hearing the GOP going all chicken little on the economy for about five years now - even as the economic indicators inch upward.

But who knows, maybe they'll get lucky and spark another crash.

The carnage wrought by this administration will be profound in four years.

What carnage might that be?

My personal monetary situation, from realestate to investments to income, have all improved substantially in the last four years.

You selfish 1%er.

It's about time you paid your fair share......and you will....soon.

 

[RoadVirus]

Foreigners who graduated from our colleges and have needed skills should be offered a path to citizenship.

To hell with Americans who have needed skills, right? Who cares if they need a job...let's give it to the foreigner!

 

[nodoginnafight]

Might as well reward em for breaking the law?

Not in imho - I believe that the path to citizenship for illegal aliens should include some penalty. Not a penalty that is so punative that they will just stay undergraound, but a penalty. Not to impose at least some penalty (monetary fine) is a slap in the face to those who jumped through all the hoops to do it legally.

The penalty can be made in monthly payments (of $100 or so for about two years) and the proceeds should be used to bolster border security to help protect from terrorist infiltrations and to makle sure we don't find ourselves in this exact same situation in 30 years.

Just MHO

I don't think there should be a penalty imposed on an illegal immigrant. For one thing they are mostly poor, so taking that money from them just means they aren't going to spend it in the economy. How is it justice to impose a penalty on people who came to America out of need and not pose a penalty on those who hired them out of greed?

There were problems with the Reagan amnesty. They didn't allow people to bring in foreign seasonal farm workers and they didn't enforce laws against employing illegal aliens. Very few illegal aliens will stay in a country, if they can't work. What we need is a system to fine employers who don't verify the legal status of their workers. They should start off with a fine and keep doubling it after each offense. Let's say a company has 3 illegal aliens in it's workforce after immigration reform. I think a fair initial fine would be $1,000 per offense and the expenses to deport the person. During the immigration reform process, the companies or individuals who hire illegals should be given a chance to determine the legal status of the person they have hired and urge them to get into the immigration reform program. If an illegal immigrant has ties to America and isn't someone who just crossed to get citizenship, then they should be given a road to citizenship. Once we are passed immigration reform, there shouldn't be mercy on people or employers abusing the new system. An employer caught hiring illegals 8 times is at the $128,000 per offense level, plus deportation costs. Those costs should include confinement and police escort to a one way ticket out of America. The illegal is allowed to keep property, such as clothing and hygiene products that they can carry, while leaving the country. Other property like a car or TV is confiscated for the fine of being an illegal alien. Any money they have over a certain amount is confiscated.

Immigration reform should include new quotas to allow more immigration to America. We need to grow our way out of our problems. Foreigners who graduated from our colleges and have needed skills should be offered a path to citizenship. We should avoid a system where once illegals are sending money out of the country to support their families. Non-citizens should only get emergency social services and only on the conditions that it's a loan, that has to be repaid. A criminal who hasn't reached citizenship should be deported, unless it's a minor offense.

I believe a person SHOULD face a penalty for breaking our laws. You don't forgive a man who robs or steals because of his dire financial situation - breaking immigration laws should carry at least some penalty. If becoming a citizen of the United States of America isn't worth $100 a month for two years to you - then beat it.

Employer fines don't work well either. Many illegals earn money as independent contractors - so technically, they are self employed. Your "fine the employer" approach just dries up and blows away in these cases. There is also a Constuitional problem with confiscating personal property.

Other than those exceptions, I think you have a couple of good ideas.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

The carnage wrought by this administration will be profound in four years.

What carnage might that be?

My personal monetary situation, from realestate to investments to income, have all improved substantially in the last four years.

Your anecdotal evidence doesn't change the plight of millions who are jobless.

Most of those who are jobless want a job on their terms and are not willing to take certain jobs which they consider beneath them.

I'm retiring from the Army shortly and have found there are no shortage of jobs out there.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

The carnage wrought by this administration will be profound in four years.

What carnage might that be?

My personal monetary situation, from realestate to investments to income, have all improved substantially in the last four years.

You selfish 1%er.

It's about time you paid your fair share......and you will....soon.

I'm hardly a "1%er" and I pay my taxes without crying about it.

 

[Katzndogz]

Not sure if it will ever be in play with the economy shrinking as it is under democrat watch.

Hasn't seemed to hurt the Deomocrats so far. They won the White House, gained seats in both houses, and have the GOP scrambling to game the system in order to remain competative.

I guess we will see - but I've been hearing the GOP going all chicken little on the economy for about five years now - even as the economic indicators inch upward.

But who knows, maybe they'll get lucky and spark another crash.

The carnage wrought by this administration will be profound in four years.

After that, maybe the people will find the democrats so painful, they won't make that mistake again.

 

[rightwinger]

Not sure if it will ever be in play with the economy shrinking as it is under democrat watch.

With the Dow reaching 14,000 and S&P over 1500

Is the economy shrinking?

Yes it shrank... and that was before the implementation of all O's new taxes on everyone.

Shrinkage? Wanna talk shrinkage?

Lets look at how the economy shrank under Republican leadership vs Obama's leadership

 

[Dragonlady]

I think a lot of people forget that Texas used to be a solid blue state. From 1874 until 1979, the Governor of Texas was a Democrat. Basically, Texas turned red around the time Reagan was elected, but even then, Texans elected Democrats Mark White and Ann Richards as Governors in 1983 and 1991 respectively.

What the Dems have said is they want to take back Texas and they believe it's possible.

 

[rightwinger]

I think a lot of people forget that Texas used to be a solid blue state. From 1874 until 1979, the Governor of Texas was a Democrat. Basically, Texas turned red around the time Reagan was elected, but even then, Texans elected Democrats Mark White and Ann Richards as Governors in 1983 and 1991 respectively.

What the Dems have said is they want to take back Texas and they believe it's possible.

Democrats were a different breed back then

So were Republicans

 

[Dragonlady]

Democrats were a different breed back then

So were Republicans

I agree. I remember in the early 70's thinking Reagan was so far to the right that he had no hope of ever being elected President and I still thought him an extreme right-winger when he was elected. Today, some factions of the Republican Party call Reagan a RINO.

When I was growing up, the US really was far more liberal than it is today. The US and Canada were very much alike in those years. There was a strong sense of community and we're all in this together. Reagan started the war on the poor with his "welfare queen" speech, and now right-wingers want to punish people for being dependent on government by taking away their right to vote, by telling them how to spend their benefits money, and generally punishing people for accepting public assistance, while letting corporations steal people blind.

 

[rightwinger]

Democrats were a different breed back then

So were Republicans

I agree. I remember in the early 70's thinking Reagan was so far to the right that he had no hope of ever being elected President and I still thought him an extreme right-winger when he was elected. Today, some factions of the Republican Party call Reagan a RINO.

When I was growing up, the US really was far more liberal than it is today. The US and Canada were very much alike in those years. There was a strong sense of community and we're all in this together. Reagan started the war on the poor with his "welfare queen" speech, and now right-wingers want to punish people for being dependent on government by taking away their right to vote, by telling them how to spend their benefits money, and generally punishing people for accepting public assistance, while letting corporations steal people blind.

When I grew up we had liberal Republicans. Nelson Rockefeller, Jacob Javits, George Romney, Gerald Ford

They were fiscally conservative but liberal on social issues

Hell, the founder of the Progressive Movement was Republican Teddy Roosevelt

 

[Dragonlady]

I remember being a fan of Rockefeller and Romney Sr., Ford, not so much. I would have voted for Eisenhower. I find Obama to be so far to the right that I wouldn't vote for him if another, more liberal choice were available. OTOH I am not so far to the left that I am comfortable voting for the New Democratic Party in Canada (the NDP Finance Minister in Ontario, Flloyd Laughren, was referred to in the conservative newspapers as "Pink Floyd" in reference to commies being called "Pinkos"). I don't think the concept of a balanced budget is in their platform. I much more socially liberal than fiscally. And being in the legal profession, I do see the need to simplify laws and red tape for business.

 

[Dubya]

Not in imho - I believe that the path to citizenship for illegal aliens should include some penalty. Not a penalty that is so punative that they will just stay undergraound, but a penalty. Not to impose at least some penalty (monetary fine) is a slap in the face to those who jumped through all the hoops to do it legally.

The penalty can be made in monthly payments (of $100 or so for about two years) and the proceeds should be used to bolster border security to help protect from terrorist infiltrations and to makle sure we don't find ourselves in this exact same situation in 30 years.

Just MHO

I don't think there should be a penalty imposed on an illegal immigrant. For one thing they are mostly poor, so taking that money from them just means they aren't going to spend it in the economy. How is it justice to impose a penalty on people who came to America out of need and not pose a penalty on those who hired them out of greed?

There were problems with the Reagan amnesty. They didn't allow people to bring in foreign seasonal farm workers and they didn't enforce laws against employing illegal aliens. Very few illegal aliens will stay in a country, if they can't work. What we need is a system to fine employers who don't verify the legal status of their workers. They should start off with a fine and keep doubling it after each offense. Let's say a company has 3 illegal aliens in it's workforce after immigration reform. I think a fair initial fine would be $1,000 per offense and the expenses to deport the person. During the immigration reform process, the companies or individuals who hire illegals should be given a chance to determine the legal status of the person they have hired and urge them to get into the immigration reform program. If an illegal immigrant has ties to America and isn't someone who just crossed to get citizenship, then they should be given a road to citizenship. Once we are passed immigration reform, there shouldn't be mercy on people or employers abusing the new system. An employer caught hiring illegals 8 times is at the $128,000 per offense level, plus deportation costs. Those costs should include confinement and police escort to a one way ticket out of America. The illegal is allowed to keep property, such as clothing and hygiene products that they can carry, while leaving the country. Other property like a car or TV is confiscated for the fine of being an illegal alien. Any money they have over a certain amount is confiscated.

Immigration reform should include new quotas to allow more immigration to America. We need to grow our way out of our problems. Foreigners who graduated from our colleges and have needed skills should be offered a path to citizenship. We should avoid a system where once illegals are sending money out of the country to support their families. Non-citizens should only get emergency social services and only on the conditions that it's a loan, that has to be repaid. A criminal who hasn't reached citizenship should be deported, unless it's a minor offense.

I believe a person SHOULD face a penalty for breaking our laws. You don't forgive a man who robs or steals because of his dire financial situation - breaking immigration laws should carry at least some penalty. If becoming a citizen of the United States of America isn't worth $100 a month for two years to you - then beat it.

Employer fines don't work well either. Many illegals earn money as independent contractors - so technically, they are self employed. Your "fine the employer" approach just dries up and blows away in these cases. There is also a Constuitional problem with confiscating personal property.

Other than those exceptions, I think you have a couple of good ideas.

I'm sure that's why all you right-wingers have mentioned fining the employers of these illegal immigrants, because you all know that's a crime, too.

Why don't you go back and quote a list of right-winger saying that? Those illegals wouldn't be here without a job.

There isn't a constitutional problem confiscating property, when it's done through due process in court.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I don't think there should be a penalty imposed on an illegal immigrant. For one thing they are mostly poor, so taking that money from them just means they aren't going to spend it in the economy. How is it justice to impose a penalty on people who came to America out of need and not pose a penalty on those who hired them out of greed?

There were problems with the Reagan amnesty. They didn't allow people to bring in foreign seasonal farm workers and they didn't enforce laws against employing illegal aliens. Very few illegal aliens will stay in a country, if they can't work. What we need is a system to fine employers who don't verify the legal status of their workers. They should start off with a fine and keep doubling it after each offense. Let's say a company has 3 illegal aliens in it's workforce after immigration reform. I think a fair initial fine would be $1,000 per offense and the expenses to deport the person. During the immigration reform process, the companies or individuals who hire illegals should be given a chance to determine the legal status of the person they have hired and urge them to get into the immigration reform program. If an illegal immigrant has ties to America and isn't someone who just crossed to get citizenship, then they should be given a road to citizenship. Once we are passed immigration reform, there shouldn't be mercy on people or employers abusing the new system. An employer caught hiring illegals 8 times is at the $128,000 per offense level, plus deportation costs. Those costs should include confinement and police escort to a one way ticket out of America. The illegal is allowed to keep property, such as clothing and hygiene products that they can carry, while leaving the country. Other property like a car or TV is confiscated for the fine of being an illegal alien. Any money they have over a certain amount is confiscated.

Immigration reform should include new quotas to allow more immigration to America. We need to grow our way out of our problems. Foreigners who graduated from our colleges and have needed skills should be offered a path to citizenship. We should avoid a system where once illegals are sending money out of the country to support their families. Non-citizens should only get emergency social services and only on the conditions that it's a loan, that has to be repaid. A criminal who hasn't reached citizenship should be deported, unless it's a minor offense.

I believe a person SHOULD face a penalty for breaking our laws. You don't forgive a man who robs or steals because of his dire financial situation - breaking immigration laws should carry at least some penalty. If becoming a citizen of the United States of America isn't worth $100 a month for two years to you - then beat it.

Employer fines don't work well either. Many illegals earn money as independent contractors - so technically, they are self employed. Your "fine the employer" approach just dries up and blows away in these cases. There is also a Constuitional problem with confiscating personal property.

Other than those exceptions, I think you have a couple of good ideas.

I'm sure that's why all you right-wingers have mentioned fining the employers of these illegal immigrants, because you all know that's a crime, too.

Why don't you go back and quote a list of right-winger saying that? Those illegals wouldn't be here without a job.

There isn't a constitutional problem confiscating property, when it's done through due process in court.

"all you right wingers"?????
Including me????????

I think I'm gonna frame this

 

[Dubya]

I believe a person SHOULD face a penalty for breaking our laws. You don't forgive a man who robs or steals because of his dire financial situation - breaking immigration laws should carry at least some penalty. If becoming a citizen of the United States of America isn't worth $100 a month for two years to you - then beat it.

Employer fines don't work well either. Many illegals earn money as independent contractors - so technically, they are self employed. Your "fine the employer" approach just dries up and blows away in these cases. There is also a Constuitional problem with confiscating personal property.

Other than those exceptions, I think you have a couple of good ideas.

I'm sure that's why all you right-wingers have mentioned fining the employers of these illegal immigrants, because you all know that's a crime, too.

Why don't you go back and quote a list of right-winger saying that? Those illegals wouldn't be here without a job.

There isn't a constitutional problem confiscating property, when it's done through due process in court.

"all you right wingers"?????
Including me????????

I think I'm gonna frame this

What the hell do you think a Blue Dog is? Democrats have right-wingers too.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

This thread reaffirms the premise of the OP

Republicans will never recapture the Hispanic vote. The hatred is just too strong. Texas will eventually be in play as the Hispanic influence increases and more Yankees move to the state

Enforcing current Federal Law is hardly hatred. Unfortunately all amnesty will do is upset those immigrants who make an effort to go through the long process of attaining citizenship "legally" by obeying the current law already in place. Its not all that hard for hispanics to wait at the end of the line and follow the very same laws other immigrants have been using for over 100 years. To make a clean sweep forgiveness policy on a quick road towards legalization will only succeed to cheapen the hard works of other immigrants striving to become American citizens.