Cali moves to save Yosemite.

No it is not. That is an arrogant view in that you are essentially demanding that people must enjoy the place the way YOU want them too. Sorry but your opinion of how the area should be enjoyed is literally irrelevant. You are not that important.

The real matter is the DAMAGE to the area by visitors. That was what the OP focused on. The real damage is not really caused by the fact that there are bicycles or lodging or any other amenities available but instead the damage is directly from the level of traffic that was seen. You reduce that through prices and direct caps on visitors. Closing business does nothing as traffic levels are the real problem.

So, what is your problem with the place? Are you simply demanding that people enjoy Yosemite the way you want them to or are you worried about the ecological damage?

I thought it was obvious that my concern is about the ecological damage being done. Are we clear now?

Not when you are claiming that the crux of the issue is HOW people decide to enjoy Yosemite and ignoring that this is not an effective way at controlling the traffic thought the place which IS the crux of the issue.

How it should be enjoyed is your issue, not mine. If you want to control the traffic, get rid of the entertainment and let it revert back to it's former wild state. The fact is that people are "loving" that park to death, and that needs to change.
 
I get it-----evacuate everyone from the park and set up a perimeter so no one ever enters it again. That will "save" it from who liberals have determined to be it enemy.
 
Its pretty apparent that the rw'ers in this thread just don't "get it" :eusa_doh:

Don't worry Dotty -- I "get it" just fine.. I know that if you really wanted to restore some wilderness -- the better move would be to go 30 miles North and tear down the dam at Hetch Hetchy.. That's the "little Yosemite" that was totally drowned by a reservoir.

Now THAT is destruction of nature on a Mass Destruction scale.. YET -- your beef is about bicycle rentals and car traffic in a protected National Park. Your priorities are whacked.
 
Environmental Issues - Yosemite National Park

Invasive Species: Invasive species have a negative impact on natural resoures nationwide, including in Yosemite National Park. Non-native animal species, like the New Zealand mud snail, concerns park scientists because this species can completely cover a river streambed, thereby altering the ecosystem. Plant species, like Himalayan blackberry, can form impenetrable thickets that replace native vegetation. Park botanists work to detect and prevent invasive plants, also referred to as noxious weeds, that cause ecological or economic damage. It is much easier to prevent the spread of invasive species than to try to eradicate them once they are introduced.

Soundscape: The acoustic environment of any area is made up of natural and human sounds. Cultural and historic sounds, like the rhythm of a horse-drawn wagon, are components, too. Sounds are an intengral part of visitors' Yosemite experience. Listening to water flow or wildlife vocalize can be degraded by inappropriate sounds or sound levels. It's possible that increased noise may disrupt wildlife behavior, particularly in mating, locating prey, and complex communication methods. For these reasons, the unique enjoyment of sounds in a national park setting makes the soundscape worthy of protection.

Dark Night Sky: A natural lightscape, such as a dark night sky, is an environment that has not been disturbed by light or air pollution. In Yosemite, dark night skies have natural, cultural, and scenic importance. Animals, especially nocturnal ones, depend on darkness to hunt, conceal their location, navigate, and reproduce. Plants can be affected by artificial light because it disrupts their natural cycles. Many Yosemite visitors come to experience this worldwide vanishing resource. To study the topic, the National Park Service devised a system to measure sky brightness, and even remote parks like Yosemite face stray light pollution, particularly from the San Joaquin Valley.

Scenic Vistas: Looking out from Yosemite's Inspiration Point offers a breath-taking scenic view. These views, seen by explorers like James Mason Hutchings and John Muir, are part of the history that inspired the protection of the park in the late 1800s. Restoration projects prevent unnatural growth-vegetation encroachment-in open areas to retain the historic views for which Yosemite is known. Yosemite scientists aim to restore the park's historic scenic vistas using sound cultural and ecological practices and processes. A new multi-year project will identify historic and current park vistas using previous vista studies, historical records, GIS data, and site visits. The park's goal is to incorporate viewshed and vista management into applicable planning efforts.

Fire: Fire has many faces. It is a phenomenon that is both fascinating and dangerous. In Yosemite, it is something that we manage carefully and continue to learn more about. Yosemite's has an extensive fire history. Historically, fire was often seen as a negative force, but in recent years it has been realized that the benefits of fire in forests are numerous. Yosemite's fire management program is designed to protect life, property, and natural and cultural resources, while ensuring the continuation of fire as a natural process. Fire managers use three tools to mimic fire's natural function in the ecosystem: prescribed fire, mechanical thinning, and wildland fire use. While visiting Yosemite, you may see evidence of any of these practices.

Visitor Use: Social scientists conduct research to inform visitor use management, resource impact monitoring, and planning-related projects. A focus is put on the human dimensions of resources management, including the visitor experience. These components to effective park management encompass the documentation of existing-use conditions and associated resource impacts. Examples of research include correlating entrance station traffic volumes to crowding/congestion at attraction sites, and understanding how crowding affects travel time on the Half Dome cables. Also see general park statistics to learn how visitors use the park.

Air Quality: Air pollution is currently recognized as one of the most significant threats to the resources of the Sierra Nevada. Sources are local, regional, and in some instances, global. The National Park Service, in cooperation with state and other federal agencies, is making concerted efforts to reduce the damage caused by air pollution. This is done by an intensive monitoring program, by offering support for research, and by expanding the education of park visitors concerned about the future of Yosemite National Park
 
Environmental Issues - Yosemite National Park

Invasive Species: Invasive species have a negative impact on natural resoures nationwide, including in Yosemite National Park. Non-native animal species, like the New Zealand mud snail, concerns park scientists because this species can completely cover a river streambed, thereby altering the ecosystem. Plant species, like Himalayan blackberry, can form impenetrable thickets that replace native vegetation. Park botanists work to detect and prevent invasive plants, also referred to as noxious weeds, that cause ecological or economic damage. It is much easier to prevent the spread of invasive species than to try to eradicate them once they are introduced.

Soundscape: The acoustic environment of any area is made up of natural and human sounds. Cultural and historic sounds, like the rhythm of a horse-drawn wagon, are components, too. Sounds are an intengral part of visitors' Yosemite experience. Listening to water flow or wildlife vocalize can be degraded by inappropriate sounds or sound levels. It's possible that increased noise may disrupt wildlife behavior, particularly in mating, locating prey, and complex communication methods. For these reasons, the unique enjoyment of sounds in a national park setting makes the soundscape worthy of protection.

Dark Night Sky: A natural lightscape, such as a dark night sky, is an environment that has not been disturbed by light or air pollution. In Yosemite, dark night skies have natural, cultural, and scenic importance. Animals, especially nocturnal ones, depend on darkness to hunt, conceal their location, navigate, and reproduce. Plants can be affected by artificial light because it disrupts their natural cycles. Many Yosemite visitors come to experience this worldwide vanishing resource. To study the topic, the National Park Service devised a system to measure sky brightness, and even remote parks like Yosemite face stray light pollution, particularly from the San Joaquin Valley.

Scenic Vistas: Looking out from Yosemite's Inspiration Point offers a breath-taking scenic view. These views, seen by explorers like James Mason Hutchings and John Muir, are part of the history that inspired the protection of the park in the late 1800s. Restoration projects prevent unnatural growth-vegetation encroachment-in open areas to retain the historic views for which Yosemite is known. Yosemite scientists aim to restore the park's historic scenic vistas using sound cultural and ecological practices and processes. A new multi-year project will identify historic and current park vistas using previous vista studies, historical records, GIS data, and site visits. The park's goal is to incorporate viewshed and vista management into applicable planning efforts.

Fire: Fire has many faces. It is a phenomenon that is both fascinating and dangerous. In Yosemite, it is something that we manage carefully and continue to learn more about. Yosemite's has an extensive fire history. Historically, fire was often seen as a negative force, but in recent years it has been realized that the benefits of fire in forests are numerous. Yosemite's fire management program is designed to protect life, property, and natural and cultural resources, while ensuring the continuation of fire as a natural process. Fire managers use three tools to mimic fire's natural function in the ecosystem: prescribed fire, mechanical thinning, and wildland fire use. While visiting Yosemite, you may see evidence of any of these practices.

Visitor Use: Social scientists conduct research to inform visitor use management, resource impact monitoring, and planning-related projects. A focus is put on the human dimensions of resources management, including the visitor experience. These components to effective park management encompass the documentation of existing-use conditions and associated resource impacts. Examples of research include correlating entrance station traffic volumes to crowding/congestion at attraction sites, and understanding how crowding affects travel time on the Half Dome cables. Also see general park statistics to learn how visitors use the park.

Air Quality: Air pollution is currently recognized as one of the most significant threats to the resources of the Sierra Nevada. Sources are local, regional, and in some instances, global. The National Park Service, in cooperation with state and other federal agencies, is making concerted efforts to reduce the damage caused by air pollution. This is done by an intensive monitoring program, by offering support for research, and by expanding the education of park visitors concerned about the future of Yosemite National Park

Post as your true self newsocks...This ones busted...
 
The simple fact is that there are more visitors than the ecology of the park and surrounding lands can handle. And it is doing real damage to the park. Making a political hay out of it does not solve the problem. It needs to be addressed from a conservation point of view.

It does not look like they are doing that though. The way to limit visitors is NOT to reduce the businesses catering within the park but to increase the cost and/or reduce the total allowed in the park. That actually reduces traffic. Reducing business only makes staying in the park less of a comfort.

Why have they chosen this tactic then? It seems rather inane.

Why do we need businesses in the Parks in the first place? The whole idea of the National Parks was to preserve them is as natural of a state as possible. A McD's is hardly part of the natural state of any park.
 
The simple fact is that there are more visitors than the ecology of the park and surrounding lands can handle. And it is doing real damage to the park. Making a political hay out of it does not solve the problem. It needs to be addressed from a conservation point of view.

It does not look like they are doing that though. The way to limit visitors is NOT to reduce the businesses catering within the park but to increase the cost and/or reduce the total allowed in the park. That actually reduces traffic. Reducing business only makes staying in the park less of a comfort.

Why have they chosen this tactic then? It seems rather inane.

Why do we need businesses in the Parks in the first place? The whole idea of the National Parks was to preserve them is as natural of a state as possible. A McD's is hardly part of the natural state of any park.

Weren't you listening ? I said get people out of the park--ban them---. This is a no brainer. Put cams up so people can see what's happening on the internet.
 
Build a new park.

Talk to somebody who flies across country for the first time. They talk about one thing: how incredibly humongous is the land area that is totally undeveloped. You hear the environmental radicals talk and you'd think that there are 4 billion neighborhoods/cities littering the landscape.......like we'd no longer have a park to go to if Yosemite got fucked up.


C'mon:2up:
 
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It does not look like they are doing that though. The way to limit visitors is NOT to reduce the businesses catering within the park but to increase the cost and/or reduce the total allowed in the park. That actually reduces traffic. Reducing business only makes staying in the park less of a comfort.

Why have they chosen this tactic then? It seems rather inane.

Why do we need businesses in the Parks in the first place? The whole idea of the National Parks was to preserve them is as natural of a state as possible. A McD's is hardly part of the natural state of any park.

Weren't you listening ? I said get people out of the park--ban them---. This is a no brainer. Put cams up so people can see what's happening on the internet.
Preservation is one of the reason we have National Parks but so is the enjoyment and use of our parks.
 
Build a new park.

Talk to somebody who flies across country for the first time. They talk about one thing: how incredibly humongous is the land area that is totally undeveloped. You hear the environmental radicals talk and you'd think that there are 4 billion neighborhoods/cities littering the landscape.......like we'd no longer have a park to go to if Yosemite got fucked up.


C'mon:2up:

There is a very good reason why there is so much land that is undeveloped: Because so much of it is either desert, valuable wetlands, or other marginal land. And dude, perhaps using one's brain is a radical concept to you, I don't know. It isn't to me.
 
Why do we need businesses in the Parks in the first place? The whole idea of the National Parks was to preserve them is as natural of a state as possible. A McD's is hardly part of the natural state of any park.

Weren't you listening ? I said get people out of the park--ban them---. This is a no brainer. Put cams up so people can see what's happening on the internet.
Preservation is one of the reason we have National Parks but so is the enjoyment and use of our parks.

Which do you believe should take priority?
 
Weren't you listening ? I said get people out of the park--ban them---. This is a no brainer. Put cams up so people can see what's happening on the internet.
Preservation is one of the reason we have National Parks but so is the enjoyment and use of our parks.

Which do you believe should take priority?
Preservation for the use and enjoyment of current and future generations. In general, I don't believe in a lock box environment where the public is denied use. There are places that the public should not be allowed but we have to keep in mind that our parks were created for the enjoyment of our people, present and future.
 
oldorgansock, wants parks open to only him and those like him. He beleives no one but him and the few like him are worthy...
 
Environmental Issues - Yosemite National Park

Invasive Species: Invasive species have a negative impact on natural resoures nationwide, including in Yosemite National Park. Non-native animal species, like the New Zealand mud snail, concerns park scientists because this species can completely cover a river streambed, thereby altering the ecosystem. Plant species, like Himalayan blackberry, can form impenetrable thickets that replace native vegetation. Park botanists work to detect and prevent invasive plants, also referred to as noxious weeds, that cause ecological or economic damage. It is much easier to prevent the spread of invasive species than to try to eradicate them once they are introduced.

Soundscape: The acoustic environment of any area is made up of natural and human sounds. Cultural and historic sounds, like the rhythm of a horse-drawn wagon, are components, too. Sounds are an intengral part of visitors' Yosemite experience. Listening to water flow or wildlife vocalize can be degraded by inappropriate sounds or sound levels. It's possible that increased noise may disrupt wildlife behavior, particularly in mating, locating prey, and complex communication methods. For these reasons, the unique enjoyment of sounds in a national park setting makes the soundscape worthy of protection.

Dark Night Sky: A natural lightscape, such as a dark night sky, is an environment that has not been disturbed by light or air pollution. In Yosemite, dark night skies have natural, cultural, and scenic importance. Animals, especially nocturnal ones, depend on darkness to hunt, conceal their location, navigate, and reproduce. Plants can be affected by artificial light because it disrupts their natural cycles. Many Yosemite visitors come to experience this worldwide vanishing resource. To study the topic, the National Park Service devised a system to measure sky brightness, and even remote parks like Yosemite face stray light pollution, particularly from the San Joaquin Valley.

Scenic Vistas: Looking out from Yosemite's Inspiration Point offers a breath-taking scenic view. These views, seen by explorers like James Mason Hutchings and John Muir, are part of the history that inspired the protection of the park in the late 1800s. Restoration projects prevent unnatural growth-vegetation encroachment-in open areas to retain the historic views for which Yosemite is known. Yosemite scientists aim to restore the park's historic scenic vistas using sound cultural and ecological practices and processes. A new multi-year project will identify historic and current park vistas using previous vista studies, historical records, GIS data, and site visits. The park's goal is to incorporate viewshed and vista management into applicable planning efforts.

Fire: Fire has many faces. It is a phenomenon that is both fascinating and dangerous. In Yosemite, it is something that we manage carefully and continue to learn more about. Yosemite's has an extensive fire history. Historically, fire was often seen as a negative force, but in recent years it has been realized that the benefits of fire in forests are numerous. Yosemite's fire management program is designed to protect life, property, and natural and cultural resources, while ensuring the continuation of fire as a natural process. Fire managers use three tools to mimic fire's natural function in the ecosystem: prescribed fire, mechanical thinning, and wildland fire use. While visiting Yosemite, you may see evidence of any of these practices.

Visitor Use: Social scientists conduct research to inform visitor use management, resource impact monitoring, and planning-related projects. A focus is put on the human dimensions of resources management, including the visitor experience. These components to effective park management encompass the documentation of existing-use conditions and associated resource impacts. Examples of research include correlating entrance station traffic volumes to crowding/congestion at attraction sites, and understanding how crowding affects travel time on the Half Dome cables. Also see general park statistics to learn how visitors use the park.

Air Quality: Air pollution is currently recognized as one of the most significant threats to the resources of the Sierra Nevada. Sources are local, regional, and in some instances, global. The National Park Service, in cooperation with state and other federal agencies, is making concerted efforts to reduce the damage caused by air pollution. This is done by an intensive monitoring program, by offering support for research, and by expanding the education of park visitors concerned about the future of Yosemite National Park

There's nothing there that justifies making access to the Valley more difficult or impossible. Unless invasive species are sneaking in with pic-a-nik lunch bags. Or noise somehow has a positive feedback that can crack Half Dome. Or you think that more fires start because of visitors in the Valley instead of the Forest Service losing control of controlled burns.. Don't see it...

You can get absolute quiet within a 10 minute walk from the road in the Valley.
You want seclusion? Buy a freaking trail pass and take a hike.
 
Weren't you listening ? I said get people out of the park--ban them---. This is a no brainer. Put cams up so people can see what's happening on the internet.
Preservation is one of the reason we have National Parks but so is the enjoyment and use of our parks.

Which do you believe should take priority?

There is no tourist created substantial damage being done to Yosemite. The idea that it "needs to be saved" from bicycle vendors is ludicrous. Especially when you have a $400 a night Hotel there and a Golf Course up in Wawona.

You wanna see ABUSE?? Go find pictures of the Half Dome FIREFALL that used to take place. Where the Glacier Point Hotel used to toss a dumpster size load of hot coals off the face to entertain folks in the Valley on summer nights.. THAT was abuse for amusement only.. Or pictures of the hole in giant redwoods that you could drive a wagon thru..

Everything else is the cost of making nature ACCESSIBLE to the widest spectrum of folks possible.

We've gotten better. SO GOOD --- that even ardent environmentalists can weigh the "costs".
 
Preservation is one of the reason we have National Parks but so is the enjoyment and use of our parks.

Which do you believe should take priority?

There is no tourist created substantial damage being done to Yosemite. The idea that it "needs to be saved" from bicycle vendors is ludicrous. Especially when you have a $400 a night Hotel there and a Golf Course up in Wawona.

You wanna see ABUSE?? Go find pictures of the Half Dome FIREFALL that used to take place. Where the Glacier Point Hotel used to toss a dumpster size load of hot coals off the face to entertain folks in the Valley on summer nights.. THAT was abuse for amusement only.. Or pictures of the hole in giant redwoods that you could drive a wagon thru..

Everything else is the cost of making nature ACCESSIBLE to the widest spectrum of folks possible.

We've gotten better. SO GOOD --- that even ardent environmentalists can weigh the "costs".

Well, that's interesting, particularly as I never said anything about "saving it from bicycles vendors". But you go right ahead and create your red herrings. We are used to it. Fireballs at half dome? So I guess the local wildlife did that, not the tourists, eh?
 

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