SFC Ollie
Still Marching
Gee maybe we can adopt a system like Germany where the State run School decides if your child goes to college or their selection of a trade school for them..........
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Gee maybe we can adopt a system like Germany where the State run School decides if your child goes to college or their selection of a trade school for them..........
Tis very true. Perception is reality.
The funny thing is that I don't think the kids are buying it. They want FREE COLLEGE - not affordable.
Is a free education for those who are qualified, that bad a thing for this country? Is a free education less desirable for a society than an education you have to pay $100,000 plus for?
An educated workforce is good for an economy. It is critical in today's society that you have a highly educated worker to do increasingly complex skills. Do we want to return to a society where most the workers can't read and write and only the wealthy can afford higher education?
Much of the world, including China provide free higher education
And exactly who will run the lathes in a machine shop? Drive the buses so people can get to work? Pick up garbage on collection day? Run the mailroom? Answer the phones? Pick the lettuce? Drive the taxi?
College grads?
Is a free education for those who are qualified, that bad a thing for this country? Is a free education less desirable for a society than an education you have to pay $100,000 plus for?
An educated workforce is good for an economy. It is critical in today's society that you have a highly educated worker to do increasingly complex skills. Do we want to return to a society where most the workers can't read and write and only the wealthy can afford higher education?
Much of the world, including China provide free higher education
And exactly who will run the lathes in a machine shop? Drive the buses so people can get to work? Pick up garbage on collection day? Run the mailroom? Answer the phones? Pick the lettuce? Drive the taxi?
College grads?
I used the term education, not college education
Lathe operators need to be trained, truck drivers need a CDL, plumbers and electricians and welders need to be trained. My son went to a tech school for welding. Many of these schools are nothing more than scams pushing kids to take out high priced student loans and offering marginal training
I also said qualified students. This includes motivated students. Let the slackers fall by the wayside and pick lettuce
Yes I understand, you are a CON$ervative.If these idiots fall for this, they are stupid.
Today obama announced how he is going to save them all "a lot of money" on their Monthly payments.
So how much money? from 4.50 to 7.50 a month total.
Woot, talk about a wind fall.How many times have I said CON$ always argue both sides of every issue??!!!!What's messed up is he is trying to buy them with a maximum of $4-8 a month.
Whats even more messed up, some people will like him for that.
No wonder CON$ don't want people to go to college and learn how to do math!!!
The OP argues that Obama is buying student's votes by forgiving a vast majority of the money borrowed to pay for college. Others agree and an example is given where over the course of 20 years the student saves $183,780 ($212,000 - $28,220) a savings of $765.75 per month over the 20 years. But alternately other CON$ say the savings to students is $5 to $7 per month, and using the max of $7 per month, which comes to a savings of $1,680 over the same 20 years.
So basically the CON$ are arguing that the same Obama policy saves the student almost nothing or almost everything!!!
And not a single CON$ervative will EVER see any conflict between the two arguments about the same policy.
Can you understand why I said I needed help with the math? It's not just me.
Tis very true. Perception is reality.
The funny thing is that I don't think the kids are buying it. They want FREE COLLEGE - not affordable.
Is a free education for those who are qualified, that bad a thing for this country? Is a free education less desirable for a society than an education you have to pay $100,000 plus for?
An educated workforce is good for an economy. It is critical in today's society that you have a highly educated worker to do increasingly complex skills. Do we want to return to a society where most the workers can't read and write and only the wealthy can afford higher education?
Much of the world, including China provide free higher education
But perception depends on the bias of the observer!Tis very true. Perception is reality.
The funny thing is that I don't think the kids are buying it. They want FREE COLLEGE - not affordable.
And to those who desire to see Americans who vote for Obama as stupid, the benefit to the student will be insignificant.October 27, 2011
RUSH: These student loans are gonna end up costing the taxpayers anywhere between $800,000 and $900,000 per student.
And to those who spout the GOP propaganda, it is both at the same time in the same rant because they know their target audience will hear only the part they want to believe.October 27, 2011
RUSH: It's a farce. It's a total farce. It misleads and it deceives students, and it's gonna end up saving students $8. This is one of the biggest jokes to come down the pike in a long time, and I'm gonna set it straight. It's a convoluted, intricately woven web of deceit. But that's what I do here is make the complex understandable.
Tis very true. Perception is reality.
The funny thing is that I don't think the kids are buying it. They want FREE COLLEGE - not affordable.
Is a free education for those who are qualified, that bad a thing for this country? Is a free education less desirable for a society than an education you have to pay $100,000 plus for?
An educated workforce is good for an economy. It is critical in today's society that you have a highly educated worker to do increasingly complex skills. Do we want to return to a society where most the workers can't read and write and only the wealthy can afford higher education?
Much of the world, including China provide free higher education
And exactly who will run the lathes in a machine shop? Drive the buses so people can get to work? Pick up garbage on collection day? Run the mailroom? Answer the phones? Pick the lettuce? Drive the taxi?
College grads?
I used the term education, not college education
Lathe operators need to be trained, truck drivers need a CDL, plumbers and electricians and welders need to be trained. My son went to a tech school for welding. Many of these schools are nothing more than scams pushing kids to take out high priced student loans and offering marginal training
I also said qualified students. This includes motivated students. Let the slackers fall by the wayside and pick lettuce
And who will decide who is worthy of free college and who is worthy of an education in CNC machining?
Grades?
So then we have the issue of inconsistancy in qulaity of education in each school district.....even if it doesnt exist.....
If one is not willing to invest in their children, then why should the tax payer do it?
Tis very true. Perception is reality.
The funny thing is that I don't think the kids are buying it. They want FREE COLLEGE - not affordable.
Is a free education for those who are qualified, that bad a thing for this country? Is a free education less desirable for a society than an education you have to pay $100,000 plus for?
An educated workforce is good for an economy. It is critical in today's society that you have a highly educated worker to do increasingly complex skills. Do we want to return to a society where most the workers can't read and write and only the wealthy can afford higher education?
Much of the world, including China provide free higher education
China is a great example???
Okay.
Btw, most HS grads can't read on a college level now.
Only the wealthy can really afford higher education.
Most couildn't hack it even if they could afford it simply because they need to attend a prep-school to get to the level they need for success in college. How many can affird that?
Food for thought: The goal of technology is to simplify, not to make more complex. That way everyone can use it.
Right now, graduates enrolled in the federal governments student loan Income-Based Repayment Plan make monthly payments of 15 percent of their discretionary income and all debt is forgiven after 25 years. Congress has already passed a law to change that program to require students to make payments of just 10 percent of their monthly discretionary income and to forgive the loan after just 20 years. That law will take effect in 2014 unless Obama has his way. The president would like to promote the start date to 2012. Hmm. What else happens in 2012?
Obamas politically-motivated plan to help college students repay their loans « Hot Air
10% of DISCRETIONARY income; then 20 years - bye bye.
Discretionary income is money you have after you've paid off all of your bills. Discretionary income is income after subtracting taxes and normal expenses (such as rent or mortgage, utilities, insurance, medical, transportation, property maintenance, child support, inflation, food and sundries, &c.) to maintain a certain standard of living.[5] It is the amount of an individual's income available for spending after the essentials (such as food, clothing, and shelter) have been taken care of:
Let's say, Johnny owes 120K and gets a decent job making 40K.
How much will he screw the taxpayers for?
Can someone help me with the math?
If these idiots fall for this, they are stupid.
Today obama announced how he is going to save them all "a lot of money" on their Monthly payments.
So how much money? from 4.50 to 7.50 a month total.
Woot, talk about a wind fall.
I used the term education, not college education
Lathe operators need to be trained, truck drivers need a CDL, plumbers and electricians and welders need to be trained. My son went to a tech school for welding. Many of these schools are nothing more than scams pushing kids to take out high priced student loans and offering marginal training
I also said qualified students. This includes motivated students. Let the slackers fall by the wayside and pick lettuce
And who will decide who is worthy of free college and who is worthy of an education in CNC machining?
Grades?
So then we have the issue of inconsistancy in qulaity of education in each school district.....even if it doesnt exist.....
If one is not willing to invest in their children, then why should the tax payer do it?
Decisions can be made on who makes the cut and who doesn't. Just like decision are made today
Let the kid decide where he goes. Apply to college or apply to trade school. If you don't make the cut, go into your own pocket.
You know who should be investing in your children? The people who are hiring them. They are the ones making a huge profit off the skills provided by the taxpayer or the parents. Let private corporations start coughing up for college and technical educations
Is a free education for those who are qualified, that bad a thing for this country? Is a free education less desirable for a society than an education you have to pay $100,000 plus for?
An educated workforce is good for an economy. It is critical in today's society that you have a highly educated worker to do increasingly complex skills. Do we want to return to a society where most the workers can't read and write and only the wealthy can afford higher education?
Much of the world, including China provide free higher education
China is a great example???
Okay.
Btw, most HS grads can't read on a college level now.
Only the wealthy can really afford higher education.
Most couildn't hack it even if they could afford it simply because they need to attend a prep-school to get to the level they need for success in college. How many can affird that?
Food for thought: The goal of technology is to simplify, not to make more complex. That way everyone can use it.
China is stepping up to the plate and ensuring their best qualified students do not fall through the cracks. China is far from a bunch of rice pickers. They are rapidly advancing in technological fields. Meanwhile, we demean our educated as elite and throw ever increasing college costs as an impediment to higher education
Technology does simplify and technology is constantly evolving. Those countries on the cutting edge of technology will succeed while those who wait for technology to find them will trail
By middle school, the competitive pressure to get into any high school—not just the top ones—is palpable. Admission is determined almost exclusively by performance on a single test, and only about 70 percent of students who finish middle school go on to high school. Even in primary school, parents start investing money in math Olympiads or musical-instrument training for children whose test-scores might make them borderline candidates for acceptance; extraordinary talent in math or music could be just enough to make the difference. Moving to different neighborhoods to get into better schools is a common strategy, as are hiring private tutors and making $1,000 “donations” to magnet-like middle schools.
And the workload ratchets up in middle school, too. Students spend from 7 am to 8 am at school reading, either in English or Chinese, and reciting to teachers. School ends at 5 pm, but the dinner break is shortened for an hour of “play time”—or physical fitness—beginning at 6 pm. After that, students stay at school for “evening sessions,” which function like study halls or tutoring periods. Students do homework and study, while teachers assist them. Physics, chemistry, biology and political science are tacked on to the elementary school course-load, as well as electives like calligraphy and computer science.
With under 30 percent of high-school graduates getting into college—based entirely on how students do on a “one-shot, one-kill test,” as Zhang put it—most students spend almost all waking hours studying. The subject areas of high-school courses don’t differ much from those in middle school, though phys-ed typically ends after 10th grade. Evening sessions at the high-school level conclude at 11 pm. And, for the many students who attend public boarding schools far from their hometowns, most of their lunch and dinner breaks are spent hitting the books. “Lack of sleep is very common for Chinese high-school students,” Zhang said.
As it is now, a good portion of college students do not capitalize properly on the college experience. To them it is paty, have fun...and, oh yeah...gotta go to class.
Many go for the 5 year program for 4 years of credits.
Make it cheaper, and easier to get in and things will get even worse.
OK...so we overhaul the education system and make it simple for everyone to get a college degree.
SO now we will have 5 college degree unemployed vying for 2 college degree jobs....and 1 non degree person vying for 3 non degree jobs.
And ther end result? College degreed people doing non degreed jobs.....at the cost of the tax payer.
You know...there are many social programs that seem "honorable" on paper....but you must think about the long term ramifications.
Jar,
You make a good point.
Yes I do NOT think that education will solve every one of society's ills.
Formost among those ills, (as it regards this issue, at least) is this:
When are we going to ADMIT that technology is making an every increasing amount of people REDUNDANT and basically economically UNEMPLOYABLE?
Bottom line?
NOT 1% of the human population will be able to educate themselves faster than techology will replace HUMAN LABOR with technology.
We are just now beginning to see the effects of this disrupting our ecponomi9c system.
But the speed at which this is happening is advancing so rapidly that it is catching us unaware and unable to even IMAGINE how we solve this problem.
Basically until we change the social cntract (one that is based on SCARCITY) to a social contract (based on the PLENTY that technology is creating for us) we (meaning all of mankind) are going to continue down the road to a THIRD WORLD ECONOMY.
Why?
Because in a society where technology rapidly replaces workers?
ONLY CAPITAL wins.
Workers, and more and more worker, find themselves no longer employable.
And no amount of educating our children is going solve THAT problem.
As long as kids are getting, for example, fine arts degrees and expecting that to take them to the promise land they are going to be fucked. The kids in engineering, or programs that will design and/or repair the new technology will have jobs. However it takes effort to get degrees that will actually benefit the individual.
Jar,
You make a good point.
Yes I do NOT think that education will solve every one of society's ills.
Formost among those ills, (as it regards this issue, at least) is this:
When are we going to ADMIT that technology is making an every increasing amount of people REDUNDANT and basically economically UNEMPLOYABLE?
Bottom line?
NOT 1% of the human population will be able to educate themselves faster than techology will replace HUMAN LABOR with technology.
We are just now beginning to see the effects of this disrupting our ecponomi9c system.
But the speed at which this is happening is advancing so rapidly that it is catching us unaware and unable to even IMAGINE how we solve this problem.
Basically until we change the social cntract (one that is based on SCARCITY) to a social contract (based on the PLENTY that technology is creating for us) we (meaning all of mankind) are going to continue down the road to a THIRD WORLD ECONOMY.
Why?
Because in a society where technology rapidly replaces workers?
ONLY CAPITAL wins.
Workers, and more and more worker, find themselves no longer employable.
And no amount of educating our children is going solve THAT problem.
As long as kids are getting, for example, fine arts degrees and expecting that to take them to the promise land they are going to be fucked. The kids in engineering, or programs that will design and/or repair the new technology will have jobs. However it takes effort to get degrees that will actually benefit the individual.
Yes that is what is happening on the MICRO level.
What I am talking about and the problem facing us is on the MACRO level.
Why?
Because guess what?
Engineers and programmers are NOT immune to this trend.
We cannot all be knowledge workers.
All but the most creative and brilliant knowledge workers are going to be replaced by marchines, agorthms and the changes in the bueinss models that flow from those increases in productivity.
Soem of you may be immune to this problem in your working lifetimes, but I promise you you kids will NOT be.
China is a great example???
Okay.
Btw, most HS grads can't read on a college level now.
Only the wealthy can really afford higher education.
Most couildn't hack it even if they could afford it simply because they need to attend a prep-school to get to the level they need for success in college. How many can affird that?
Food for thought: The goal of technology is to simplify, not to make more complex. That way everyone can use it.
China is stepping up to the plate and ensuring their best qualified students do not fall through the cracks. China is far from a bunch of rice pickers. They are rapidly advancing in technological fields. Meanwhile, we demean our educated as elite and throw ever increasing college costs as an impediment to higher education
Technology does simplify and technology is constantly evolving. Those countries on the cutting edge of technology will succeed while those who wait for technology to find them will trail
Yea, how much time do Chinese students spend in school each day?? From elementary to HS?? Are they prepared for college when they graduate government school?? Most US children aren't.
By middle school, the competitive pressure to get into any high schoolnot just the top onesis palpable. Admission is determined almost exclusively by performance on a single test, and only about 70 percent of students who finish middle school go on to high school. Even in primary school, parents start investing money in math Olympiads or musical-instrument training for children whose test-scores might make them borderline candidates for acceptance; extraordinary talent in math or music could be just enough to make the difference. Moving to different neighborhoods to get into better schools is a common strategy, as are hiring private tutors and making $1,000 donations to magnet-like middle schools.
And the workload ratchets up in middle school, too. Students spend from 7 am to 8 am at school reading, either in English or Chinese, and reciting to teachers. School ends at 5 pm, but the dinner break is shortened for an hour of play timeor physical fitnessbeginning at 6 pm. After that, students stay at school for evening sessions, which function like study halls or tutoring periods. Students do homework and study, while teachers assist them. Physics, chemistry, biology and political science are tacked on to the elementary school course-load, as well as electives like calligraphy and computer science.
With under 30 percent of high-school graduates getting into collegebased entirely on how students do on a one-shot, one-kill test, as Zhang put itmost students spend almost all waking hours studying. The subject areas of high-school courses dont differ much from those in middle school, though phys-ed typically ends after 10th grade. Evening sessions at the high-school level conclude at 11 pm. And, for the many students who attend public boarding schools far from their hometowns, most of their lunch and dinner breaks are spent hitting the books. Lack of sleep is very common for Chinese high-school students, Zhang said.
HechingerEd Blog | A day in the life of Chinese students
People really shouldn't spew stuff they know nothing about.
Funny. I got a loan for my last semester of undergrad. My parents guaranteed me four years and it took me an extra semester.
The terms of that loan were that I had a six month grace period from graduation to get a job, etc., then interest started adding onto it and I had to make payments.
I had to go overseas for two years immediately after college. Came back, and my first paycheck in the states had that as a deduction - garnished. I didn't know what it was (had forgotten...it happens *blush*) and found out. So, I paid it off in one check to get it out of the way.
Boy, loans sure have changed.
Not really. It's still basically the same. The 6 month grace period is still there and a loan for a single semester is a rarity. Most students are paying loans for 4 years of school.
There is no way I (or 99% of other medical students) could finance a medical degree without loans. The average Medical School debt is into the $150,000 range. I really searched through all my couch cushions but came up sufficiently short.
So, on the one hand, there is a societal need for physicians and lawyers and on the other hand the cost is beyond the reasonable ability of anyone to finance it. So, golly gee, we have a conundrum! How do we help motivated students to become physicians (and nurses and dentists and vets and lawyers)? I guess we could come up with something pragmatic.
Ironically, loans used to be deferred during medical residencies and guess what? Physicians still managed to pay off their loans in around 10 years when they actually had the income to make large payments.
IBR has been enacted so medical residents (and other people starting out at the bottom of the salary scale) aren't forced into the poor house when they are at the low end of the wage pool.
I fail to see why this bothers you guys so much. I am sure someone will be stupid enough to try and string out a loan for 20 years. Guess what? They are only hurting themselves.
As Dave Ramsey says, it's better to be debt free. It's just common sense.
Of course, data will vary depending on the university and the area of the country. And not every major is included in the NACE survey; nursing, for example, is notably absent. At New York University, nursing graduates make $62,000 in their first post-college year. But NYU grads are luckier than average. The school’s sociology majors were offered $42,300 this year, compared with $31,096 in the country as a whole.
So let me see if I have this straight.Obamas politically-motivated plan to help college students repay their loans « Hot Air
10% of DISCRETIONARY income; then 20 years - bye bye.
Let's say, Johnny owes 120K and gets a decent job making 40K.
How much will he screw the taxpayers for?
Can someone help me with the math?
If these idiots fall for this, they are stupid.
Today obama announced how he is going to save them all "a lot of money" on their Monthly payments.
So how much money? from 4.50 to 7.50 a month total.
Woot, talk about a wind fall.
Yes, the "one" is all for enslaving the college grads (those with loans) for under 10 dollars a month, and it sounds like a lot of them are willing to sign up. That will land them as gov't employees. Do you think they will be interested in providing "service" to the taxpayers?