Buying the college vote

[editec]

Blame the colleges. Prices have gone up twice the rate of inflation plus some. Why is there no discussion on that?

Good point.

And if this nation followed my proposal for UNIVERSAL SECONDARY OR TRADE EDUCATION, the price of education would certainly rise still faster, too.

What would really be happening (or at least another way to look at what it would do) is this:

The Aggregate amount of investment we'd be making into educating our next generation would be going up faster than for all other investments we make.

And THAT would be a good thing in my (never humble) opinion.

OK...so we overhaul the education system and make it simple for everyone to get a college degree.

SO now we will have 5 college degree unemployed vying for 2 college degree jobs....and 1 non degree person vying for 3 non degree jobs.

And ther end result? College degreed people doing non degreed jobs.....at the cost of the tax payer.

You know...there are many social programs that seem "honorable" on paper....but you must think about the long term ramifications.

Jar,

You make a good point.

Yes I do NOT think that education will solve every one of society's ills.


Formost among those ills, (as it regards this issue, at least) is this:

When are we going to ADMIT that technology is making an every increasing amount of people REDUNDANT and basically economically UNEMPLOYABLE?


Bottom line?

NOT 1% of the human population will be able to educate themselves faster than techology will replace HUMAN LABOR with technology.

We are just now beginning to see the effects of this disrupting our ecponomi9c system.

But the speed at which this is happening is advancing so rapidly that it is catching us unaware and unable to even IMAGINE how we solve this problem.

Basically until we change the social cntract (one that is based on SCARCITY) to a social contract (based on the PLENTY that technology is creating for us) we (meaning all of mankind) are going to continue down the road to a THIRD WORLD ECONOMY.

Why?

Because in a society where technology rapidly replaces workers?

ONLY CAPITAL wins.

Workers, and more and more worker, find themselves no longer employable.

And no amount of educating our children is going solve THAT problem.

 

[rightwinger]

As it is now, a good portion of college students do not capitalize properly on the college experience. To them it is paty, have fun...and, oh yeah...gotta go to class.
Many go for the 5 year program for 4 years of credits.
Make it cheaper, and easier to get in and things will get even worse.

I think that is a broad brush. The same could have been said 35 years ago when I went to school. I would still say the majority do take it seriously and at $40 k per year they damn well should. The problem is, the American dream is no longer there. It used to be you went to college, worked hard.....there was a career (not a job) waiting for you when you got out

Right now, the salaries being offered to grads in no way justify the tuition they are paying

 

[editec]

As it is now, a good portion of college students do not capitalize properly on the college experience. To them it is paty, have fun...and, oh yeah...gotta go to class.
Many go for the 5 year program for 4 years of credits.
Make it cheaper, and easier to get in and things will get even worse.

I think that is a broad brush. The same could have been said 35 years ago when I went to school. I would still say the majority do take it seriously and at $40 k per year they damn well should. The problem is, the American dream is no longer there. It used to be you went to college, worked hard.....there was a career (not a job) waiting for you when you got out

Right now, the salaries being offered to grads in no way justify the tuition they are paying

Ask yourself WHY this is happening.

If I told you that TECHNOLGY is the root cause of it, would you think me a hysterical luddite?

I love techology, and I love what it CAN do for us. I make my living THANKS to advances in today's techology.

But still, the impact it is having DEMANDS that we RETHINK the economic system we currently have.

If we fail to change the social contract, then all that techology does is ADVANCE the SUPPLY side without also advancing the DEMAND side.

Twenty years from today, every one of you will KNOW this is true.

 

[ba1614]

Good point.

And if this nation followed my proposal for UNIVERSAL SECONDARY OR TRADE EDUCATION, the price of education would certainly rise still faster, too.

What would really be happening (or at least another way to look at what it would do) is this:

The Aggregate amount of investment we'd be making into educating our next generation would be going up faster than for all other investments we make.

And THAT would be a good thing in my (never humble) opinion.

OK...so we overhaul the education system and make it simple for everyone to get a college degree.

SO now we will have 5 college degree unemployed vying for 2 college degree jobs....and 1 non degree person vying for 3 non degree jobs.

And ther end result? College degreed people doing non degreed jobs.....at the cost of the tax payer.

You know...there are many social programs that seem "honorable" on paper....but you must think about the long term ramifications.

Jar,

You make a good point.

Yes I do NOT think that education will solve every one of society's ills.


Formost among those ills, (as it regards this issue, at least) is this:

When are we going to ADMIT that technology is making an every increasing amount of people REDUNDANT and basically economically UNEMPLOYABLE?


Bottom line?

NOT 1% of the human population will be able to educate themselves faster than techology will replace HUMAN LABOR with technology.

We are just now beginning to see the effects of this disrupting our ecponomi9c system.

But the speed at which this is happening is advancing so rapidly that it is catching us unaware and unable to even IMAGINE how we solve this problem.

Basically until we change the social cntract (one that is based on SCARCITY) to a social contract (based on the PLENTY that technology is creating for us) we (meaning all of mankind) are going to continue down the road to a THIRD WORLD ECONOMY.

Why?

Because in a society where technology rapidly replaces workers?

ONLY CAPITAL wins.

Workers, and more and more worker, find themselves no longer employable.

And no amount of educating our children is going solve THAT problem.

As long as kids are getting, for example, fine arts degrees and expecting that to take them to the promise land they are going to be fucked. The kids in engineering, or programs that will design and/or repair the new technology will have jobs. However it takes effort to get degrees that will actually benefit the individual.

 

[rightwinger]

As it is now, a good portion of college students do not capitalize properly on the college experience. To them it is paty, have fun...and, oh yeah...gotta go to class.
Many go for the 5 year program for 4 years of credits.
Make it cheaper, and easier to get in and things will get even worse.

I think that is a broad brush. The same could have been said 35 years ago when I went to school. I would still say the majority do take it seriously and at $40 k per year they damn well should. The problem is, the American dream is no longer there. It used to be you went to college, worked hard.....there was a career (not a job) waiting for you when you got out

Right now, the salaries being offered to grads in no way justify the tuition they are paying

Ask yourself WHY this is happening.

If I told you that TECHNOLGY is the root cause of it, would you think me a hysterical luddite?

I love techology, and I love what it CAN do for us. I make my living THANKS to advances in today's techology.

But still, the impact it is having DEMANDS that we RETHINK the economic system we currently have.

If we fail to change the social contract, then all that techology does is ADVANCE the SUPPLY side without also advancing the DEMAND side.

Twenty years from today, every one of you will KNOW this is true.

Ludite? Close

College grads are paid to use technology. That technology does not replace someone designing bridges, making decisions and dealing with people. There will always be the human element in high paying jobs. Technology does not replace that

 

[Jarhead]

As it is now, a good portion of college students do not capitalize properly on the college experience. To them it is paty, have fun...and, oh yeah...gotta go to class.
Many go for the 5 year program for 4 years of credits.
Make it cheaper, and easier to get in and things will get even worse.

I think that is a broad brush. The same could have been said 35 years ago when I went to school. I would still say the majority do take it seriously and at $40 k per year they damn well should. The problem is, the American dream is no longer there. It used to be you went to college, worked hard.....there was a career (not a job) waiting for you when you got out

Right now, the salaries being offered to grads in no way justify the tuition they are paying

Ask yourself WHY this is happening.

If I told you that TECHNOLGY is the root cause of it, would you think me a hysterical luddite?

I love techology, and I love what it CAN do for us. I make my living THANKS to advances in today's techology.

But still, the impact it is having DEMANDS that we RETHINK the economic system we currently have.

If we fail to change the social contract, then all that techology does is ADVANCE the SUPPLY side without also advancing the DEMAND side.

Twenty years from today, every one of you will KNOW this is true.

20 years from now?

It is quite evident already.

The most simple of examples:

25 years ago, a 300 person law firm had a switchboard with a minimum of 4 operators (the ratio was about 1 per 75 people).

Now, with voice mail and individual lines (use to be extensions), the same frimhas the need for only 1. But that does not mean a decrease in only 3....there is a decrease in more for that 1 receptionist ALSO has time to be the conferecne room(s) coordinator...which used to be a job in itself..

SO now, technology as it pertains to pohones alone have decreased the need for at least 4 employees.

Toss in email and the reduction of 75% of the mailroom staff....high speed copiers/collaters decreasing the copy room staff by 75%....and you already have 10% less need for employees.

And we havent even touched the tip of the iceberg yet...such as PC's and graphics capabilities.

 

[Jarhead]

I think that is a broad brush. The same could have been said 35 years ago when I went to school. I would still say the majority do take it seriously and at $40 k per year they damn well should. The problem is, the American dream is no longer there. It used to be you went to college, worked hard.....there was a career (not a job) waiting for you when you got out

Right now, the salaries being offered to grads in no way justify the tuition they are paying

Ask yourself WHY this is happening.

If I told you that TECHNOLGY is the root cause of it, would you think me a hysterical luddite?

I love techology, and I love what it CAN do for us. I make my living THANKS to advances in today's techology.

But still, the impact it is having DEMANDS that we RETHINK the economic system we currently have.

If we fail to change the social contract, then all that techology does is ADVANCE the SUPPLY side without also advancing the DEMAND side.

Twenty years from today, every one of you will KNOW this is true.

Ludite? Close

College grads are paid to use technology. That technology does not replace someone designing bridges, making decisions and dealing with people. There will always be the human element in high paying jobs. Technology does not replace that

Technology replaces the support of those people RW.

And for every ONE of those people, there used to be a multitude of support people.

 

[rightwinger]

You want another scam that is no longer delivering the American dream?

The US Military

It used to be a path for kids to gain experience, learn leadership skills and was an entryway to civilian jobs when they got out

Most of the kids who are my sons age and went into the military came out after four years and had no job opportunities when they got out. Join the military, move in with mom and dad when you get out

 

[SFC Ollie]

You want another scam that is no longer delivering the American dream?

The US Military

It used to be a path for kids to gain experience, learn leadership skills and was an entryway to civilian jobs when they got out

Most of the kids who are my sons age and went into the military came out after four years and had no job opportunities when they got out. Join the military, move in with mom and dad when you get out

Anyone who does military time and doesn't take advantage of the on post education center to get at least the equivalent of a 2 year degree is a fool. And in many cases it can be done in less than a year and free of charge.....

As for this forgiveness of student loans; it's Bullshit and bad for us.........

 

[mudwhistle]

Should everyone go to college, or more accurately, should everyone who wants to go to college be accepted?

This is an excellent point. Colleges are now offering Remedial Reading and Writing for college freshman. I mean, "WTH?" Since we have so many grants, loans and scholarshgips available, colleges find that more kids can afford college whether they are actually college material in the first place. It's dumbing down education again.

Soon a degree won't mean anything unless it comes from an Ivy League school that still upholds it's standards.

Exactly!

And, it's already happened and the sequence of actions by the government (especially the Dept of Ed) and university administrators led to that inevitable fact - lower quality and higher cost. I got out of academia in 2006. My frustration with the low level of students was too much. (My frustration with other issues was too much, too.)

Took Physics 101.

Everybody I talked to was taking it for the second and third time.

 

[rightwinger]

You want another scam that is no longer delivering the American dream?

The US Military

It used to be a path for kids to gain experience, learn leadership skills and was an entryway to civilian jobs when they got out

Most of the kids who are my sons age and went into the military came out after four years and had no job opportunities when they got out. Join the military, move in with mom and dad when you get out

Anyone who does military time and doesn't take advantage of the on post education center to get at least the equivalent of a 2 year degree is a fool. And in many cases it can be done in less than a year and free of charge.....

As for this forgiveness of student loans; it's Bullshit and bad for us.........

I agree Ollie

But kids are going in and recruiters are promising them the world when they get out. The kids in our neighborhood who served are just languishing right now. They went in, served their time, did a couple rotations.......and ended up living with mom and dad

 

[SFC Ollie]

You want another scam that is no longer delivering the American dream?

The US Military

It used to be a path for kids to gain experience, learn leadership skills and was an entryway to civilian jobs when they got out

Most of the kids who are my sons age and went into the military came out after four years and had no job opportunities when they got out. Join the military, move in with mom and dad when you get out

Anyone who does military time and doesn't take advantage of the on post education center to get at least the equivalent of a 2 year degree is a fool. And in many cases it can be done in less than a year and free of charge.....

As for this forgiveness of student loans; it's Bullshit and bad for us.........

I agree Ollie

But kids are going in and recruiters are promising them the world when they get out. The kids in our neighborhood who served are just languishing right now. They went in, served their time, did a couple rotations.......and ended up living with mom and dad

Honestly, it's their Sergeants fault if they didn't push them towards the Ed Center. Education was one of my top priorities, I'd even forgive a guy needing a haircut if he could show me he was busy with classes the night before.... As long as he made time for the needed haircut today....................

 

[Jarhead]

You want another scam that is no longer delivering the American dream?

The US Military

It used to be a path for kids to gain experience, learn leadership skills and was an entryway to civilian jobs when they got out

Most of the kids who are my sons age and went into the military came out after four years and had no job opportunities when they got out. Join the military, move in with mom and dad when you get out

Anyone who does military time and doesn't take advantage of the on post education center to get at least the equivalent of a 2 year degree is a fool. And in many cases it can be done in less than a year and free of charge.....

As for this forgiveness of student loans; it's Bullshit and bad for us.........

I agree Ollie

But kids are going in and recruiters are promising them the world when they get out. The kids in our neighborhood who served are just languishing right now. They went in, served their time, did a couple rotations.......and ended up living with mom and dad

Same with non military college grads.
It is not a scam...it is a result of the economy.

 

[Charles_Main]

I think it's a good idea, a long overdue repair to a system that seriously needs repair

In fact, I don't think ithis FIX goes far enough.

It is criminally shortsighted of our society that our kids to come out post high school education burdened with extraordinary debts.

Someone is going to be Burdened with the Debt. If not the Student then who? let me guess the rich right?

lol

 

[chanel]

BTW - the "rich" are already paying more for tuition. Parents' income precludes most grants and scholarships. People often forget that.

How many foreign students are paying full price?

 

[Lovebears65]

I think it's a good idea, a long overdue repair to a system that seriously needs repair

In fact, I don't think ithis FIX goes far enough.

It is criminally shortsighted of our society that our kids to come out post high school education burdened with extraordinary debts.

So don't get the loan, what ever happened to working your way through college?? Since when is it the taxpayer's responsibility to pay for someone else's education??

Exactly, that is what my boys do, They WORK and we had some money saved for them. I guess they are penalized for being respondable

 

[mudwhistle]

I think that is a broad brush. The same could have been said 35 years ago when I went to school. I would still say the majority do take it seriously and at $40 k per year they damn well should. The problem is, the American dream is no longer there. It used to be you went to college, worked hard.....there was a career (not a job) waiting for you when you got out

Right now, the salaries being offered to grads in no way justify the tuition they are paying

Ask yourself WHY this is happening.

If I told you that TECHNOLGY is the root cause of it, would you think me a hysterical luddite?

I love techology, and I love what it CAN do for us. I make my living THANKS to advances in today's techology.

But still, the impact it is having DEMANDS that we RETHINK the economic system we currently have.

If we fail to change the social contract, then all that techology does is ADVANCE the SUPPLY side without also advancing the DEMAND side.

Twenty years from today, every one of you will KNOW this is true.

Ludite? Close

College grads are paid to use technology. That technology does not replace someone designing bridges, making decisions and dealing with people. There will always be the human element in high paying jobs. Technology does not replace that

Eventually we won't need humans!!!

 

[rdean]

Those college kids are the future of America.

Not ignorant Confederate right wing fucks who want to replace "science" with "mysticism".

 

[GeorgiaBoy]

I can't understand how anyone would support these lunatics. Like his antics are so obvious? How do you moronic liberals not see it? He wants to turn this country into a socialist society where no one has more money than another. He wants to bail out the bad and screw over the good. Why can't the people that do well in this country and not have debt be rewarded????? Only the people that made bad decisions benefit from Obama. WTF?

 

[mudwhistle]

Those college kids are the future of America.

Not ignorant Confederate right wing fucks who want to replace "science" with "mysticism".

If that's the case our future is fucked.

Btw......the Confederates were Democrats.