Buying the college vote

[SFC Ollie]

I can't understand how anyone would support these lunatics. Like his antics are so obvious? How do you moronic liberals not see it? He wants to turn this country into a socialist society where no one has more money than another. He wants to bail out the bad and screw over the good. Why can't the people that do well in this country and not have debt be rewarded????? Only the people that made bad decisions benefit from Obama. WTF?

They see it, and applaud it. What do you think OWS is all about...

 

[LordBrownTrout]

What the hell are these kids protesting? Paying back a couple bucks a month? Seriously? Are they stupid or just too lazy to fill out the forms? If I am paying for my kids' college, can I get the same deal? Where's my fucking cookie?

This is infuriating to me.

You don't get a cookie. You get to pay for these deadbeats. How does this work out anyway? So, a kid gets 100k, in 25 years all is forgiven and SOMEONE is left holding this rotten bag. At the rate we're going, we'll be devolving back into monkeys in no time.

 

[Zander]

"we can't wait for Congress"...HUH? He's had the power to do this since his first day in office. He's a joke....

 

[Avatar4321]

What's messed up is he is trying to buy them with a maximum of $4-8 a month.

Whats even more messed up, some people will like him for that.

 

[Zander]

Feculent Flea Baggers and losers will vote for anyone that gives them "free" shit. The Democrats are the "gimme some free shit" party.....

 

[flacaltenn]

Right now, graduates enrolled in the federal government’s student loan Income-Based Repayment Plan make monthly payments of 15 percent of their discretionary income — and all debt is forgiven after 25 years. Congress has already passed a law to change that program to require students to make payments of just 10 percent of their monthly discretionary income — and to forgive the loan after just 20 years. That law will take effect in 2014 — unless Obama has his way. The president would like to promote the start date to 2012. Hmm. What else happens in 2012?

Obama’s politically-motivated plan to help college students repay their loans « Hot Air

10% of DISCRETIONARY income; then 20 years - bye bye.

Discretionary income is money you have after you've paid off all of your bills. Discretionary income is income after subtracting taxes and normal expenses (such as rent or mortgage, utilities, insurance, medical, transportation, property maintenance, child support, inflation, food and sundries, &c.) to maintain a certain standard of living.[5] It is the amount of an individual's income available for spending after the essentials (such as food, clothing, and shelter) have been taken care of:

Let's say, Johnny owes 120K and gets a decent job making 40K.

How much will he screw the taxpayers for?

Can someone help me with the math?

Thought I'd go visit the Repayment site and look for loopholes for ya Chanel.. What I found simply ASTOUNDS me.. I don't think my Conservative/ Libertarian buds grasp the whole meaning of this "repayment" plan...

Take a gander at the "income based repayment scale"...

Student Aid on the Web

IBR Monthly Payment Amount
Annual
Income Family Size
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
$10,000 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0
$15,000 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0
$20,000 $46 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0
$25,000 $108 $37 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0
$30,000 $171 $99 $28 $0 $0 $0 $0
$35,000 $233 $162 $90 $18 $0 $0 $0
$40,000 $296 $224 $153 $81 $9 $0 $0
$45,000 $358 $287 $215 $143 $72 $0 $0
$50,000 $421 $349 $278 $206 $134 $63 $0
$55,000 $483 $412 $340 $268 $197 $125 $54
$60,000 $546 $474 $403 $331 $259 $188 $116
$65,000 $608 $537 $465 $393 $322 $250 $179
$70,000 $671 $599 $528 $456 $384 $313 $241

Now you'd expect College grads to be earning at least $40K in a few years. But those who make TWICE that are paying more than twice as much. The diff in repayment amounts between 35K and 70K is like $5200 per YEAR!! That's at LEAST a new car ain't it? Less incentive to go for those raises and promotions. Because the FEDS are just gonna eat your bonus..

But the REAL PANIC in that table is that -- You don't WANT anymore student loan payments? Just start flucking out KIDS!!!!!

Two kids at $60K a year gets you $140/month in loan forgiveness.. We're doomed...
When in the Devil's crapper did THIS happen? Who passed this turdish bill in the first place?

But WAIT --- it gets better...

There's a separate program with a Golden Parachute.

•10-YEAR PUBLIC SERVICE LOAN FORGIVENESS — If you work in public service, on-time, full monthly payments you make under IBR (or certain other repayment plans) while employed full-time in a public service job will count toward the 120 monthly payments that are required to receive loan forgiveness through the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program. Through this program, you may be eligible to have the remaining balance of your Direct Loans forgiven after you have made the 120 qualifying as described above. The Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program is available only for Direct Loans. If you have FFEL loans, you may be eligible to consolidate them into the Direct Loan Program to take advantage of the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program. However, only the on-time, full monthly payments made under IBR or certain other repayment plans while you are a Direct Loan borrower will count toward the required 120 monthly payments. For more information about this program, review the Department’s Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program Fact Sheet.

So you don't NEED to wait 20 or 25 years to chuck that student loan.. If you CHOOSE your major wisely, meaning largely no real marketable skills for the 21st Century, like Womens Studies or Art History (hope I offended someone ) --- You can bail into public service for 10 years and come out Student loan free.

Is that what this country should be encouraging given the race we're in to stay a tech innovative country that can compete in the world? That our kids should calculating on a parachute landing into a comfy GOVT position that's gonna forgive your student loan?

 

[Zander]

It's a recruiting program for the DNC. Indoctrinate the kids in college, get 'em in debt up to their eyeballs, then put them in "public service" to pay off the debt. It's indentured servitude....

Brilliant.

 

[flacaltenn]

Good point.

And if this nation followed my proposal for UNIVERSAL SECONDARY OR TRADE EDUCATION, the price of education would certainly rise still faster, too.

What would really be happening (or at least another way to look at what it would do) is this:

The Aggregate amount of investment we'd be making into educating our next generation would be going up faster than for all other investments we make.

And THAT would be a good thing in my (never humble) opinion.

OK...so we overhaul the education system and make it simple for everyone to get a college degree.

SO now we will have 5 college degree unemployed vying for 2 college degree jobs....and 1 non degree person vying for 3 non degree jobs.

And ther end result? College degreed people doing non degreed jobs.....at the cost of the tax payer.

You know...there are many social programs that seem "honorable" on paper....but you must think about the long term ramifications.

Jar,

You make a good point.

Yes I do NOT think that education will solve every one of society's ills.


Formost among those ills, (as it regards this issue, at least) is this:

When are we going to ADMIT that technology is making an every increasing amount of people REDUNDANT and basically economically UNEMPLOYABLE?


Bottom line?

NOT 1% of the human population will be able to educate themselves faster than techology will replace HUMAN LABOR with technology.

We are just now beginning to see the effects of this disrupting our ecponomi9c system.

But the speed at which this is happening is advancing so rapidly that it is catching us unaware and unable to even IMAGINE how we solve this problem.

Basically until we change the social cntract (one that is based on SCARCITY) to a social contract (based on the PLENTY that technology is creating for us) we (meaning all of mankind) are going to continue down the road to a THIRD WORLD ECONOMY.

Why?

Because in a society where technology rapidly replaces workers?

ONLY CAPITAL wins.

Workers, and more and more worker, find themselves no longer employable.

And no amount of educating our children is going solve THAT problem.

You got the right mojo -- which is to look at where we're heading rather then beat up on FDR and Reagan like so posts do... But there is no choice but to accept that education will be FUNDAMENTAL to surviving in the future. In fact, education will likely be a lifetime process and NOT defined by dorm life in your late teens and 20s. I see methods whereby you earn continuing credits and degrees on your Kindle or at home or at work.

And technology is NOT gonna replace workers, it's gonna liberate them from menial tasks and increase their productivity. I sit here now with email conversations going on with technical counterparts in Germany and China in another window. Cheap labor is dead. It's only got maybe 10 years to run it's course. Robotic assembly, artificial intelligience, materials science and all those hi tech fields are gonna ENABLE smart manufacturing where CUSTOM products and SPECIALIZED products are commonplace. We will need folks to write scripts for assembly like people write HTML for webpages. We will need people to babysit and repair robotic assemblers. And like the agriculture industry, whole businesses will sprout up to replace the lost manual labor that USED to categorize farming.

If we don't ENCOURAGE advanced education either on a vocational track or academic track, there will be plenty of economic zombie victims for the nanny state to support. I doubt you'll find 1/2 of the low skill set service jobs that exist today in 20 years. Simply won't be an option.

So although the Luddite way of life MIGHT start sounding attractive -- it's not really an option if you want to be a CONTRIBUTING member of future societies..

 

[edthecynic]

Right now, graduates enrolled in the federal government’s student loan Income-Based Repayment Plan make monthly payments of 15 percent of their discretionary income — and all debt is forgiven after 25 years. Congress has already passed a law to change that program to require students to make payments of just 10 percent of their monthly discretionary income — and to forgive the loan after just 20 years. That law will take effect in 2014 — unless Obama has his way. The president would like to promote the start date to 2012. Hmm. What else happens in 2012?

Obama’s politically-motivated plan to help college students repay their loans « Hot Air

10% of DISCRETIONARY income; then 20 years - bye bye.

Discretionary income is money you have after you've paid off all of your bills. Discretionary income is income after subtracting taxes and normal expenses (such as rent or mortgage, utilities, insurance, medical, transportation, property maintenance, child support, inflation, food and sundries, &c.) to maintain a certain standard of living.[5] It is the amount of an individual's income available for spending after the essentials (such as food, clothing, and shelter) have been taken care of:

Let's say, Johnny owes 120K and gets a decent job making 40K.

How much will he screw the taxpayers for?

Can someone help me with the math?

If these idiots fall for this, they are stupid.

Today obama announced how he is going to save them all "a lot of money" on their Monthly payments.

So how much money? from 4.50 to 7.50 a month total.

Woot, talk about a wind fall.

Take this example: If Suzy Creamcheese gets into George Washington University and borrows from the government the requisite $212,000 to obtain an undergraduate degree, her repayment schedule will be based on what she earns. If Suzy opts to heed the president’s call for public service, and takes a job as a city social worker earning $25,000, her payments would be limited to $1,411 a year after the $10,890 of poverty-level income is subtracted from her total exposure.

Twenty years at that rate would have taxpayers recoup only $28,220 of their $212,000 loan to Suzy.

As in the housing bubble, cheap credit on easy terms increases the amount of money chasing the product (in this case a diploma) allowing schools to increase prices. This inflation makes it harder for middle-class families to afford paying their own tuitions, driving them into the government financing program, which, you guessed it, drives up costs further still.

The best part for Obama is that he can obligate the Treasury without Congressional approval thanks to the passage of what he described as a cost-saving measure in 2009.
Read more: Obama Taps Taxpayers For Student Stimulus | Fox News

Drudge Headline today: 'THE CANDY MAN: STIMULUS FOR STUDENTS"

obama's plan gives students between 5 and 7 dollars a month if you do the math. it's a joke.

What the hell are these kids protesting? Paying back a couple bucks a month? Seriously? Are they stupid or just too lazy to fill out the forms? If I am paying for my kids' college, can I get the same deal? Where's my fucking cookie?

This is infuriating to me.

You don't get a cookie. You get to pay for these deadbeats. How does this work out anyway? So, a kid gets 100k, in 25 years all is forgiven and SOMEONE is left holding this rotten bag. At the rate we're going, we'll be devolving back into monkeys in no time.

What's messed up is he is trying to buy them with a maximum of $4-8 a month.

Whats even more messed up, some people will like him for that.

How many times have I said CON$ always argue both sides of every issue??!!!!

No wonder CON$ don't want people to go to college and learn how to do math!!!

The OP argues that Obama is buying student's votes by forgiving a vast majority of the money borrowed to pay for college. Others agree and an example is given where over the course of 20 years the student saves $183,780 ($212,000 - $28,220) a savings of $765.75 per month over the 20 years. But alternately other CON$ say the savings to students is $5 to $7 per month, and using the max of $7 per month, which comes to a savings of $1,680 over the same 20 years.

So basically the CON$ are arguing that the same Obama policy saves the student almost nothing or almost everything!!!
And not a single CON$ervative will EVER see any conflict between the two arguments about the same policy.

 

[geauxtohell]

Right now, graduates enrolled in the federal government’s student loan Income-Based Repayment Plan make monthly payments of 15 percent of their discretionary income — and all debt is forgiven after 25 years. Congress has already passed a law to change that program to require students to make payments of just 10 percent of their monthly discretionary income — and to forgive the loan after just 20 years. That law will take effect in 2014 — unless Obama has his way. The president would like to promote the start date to 2012. Hmm. What else happens in 2012?

Obama’s politically-motivated plan to help college students repay their loans « Hot Air

10% of DISCRETIONARY income; then 20 years - bye bye.

Discretionary income is money you have after you've paid off all of your bills. Discretionary income is income after subtracting taxes and normal expenses (such as rent or mortgage, utilities, insurance, medical, transportation, property maintenance, child support, inflation, food and sundries, &c.) to maintain a certain standard of living.[5] It is the amount of an individual's income available for spending after the essentials (such as food, clothing, and shelter) have been taken care of:

Let's say, Johnny owes 120K and gets a decent job making 40K.

How much will he screw the taxpayers for?

Can someone help me with the math?

I will certainly take advantage of income based repayment, and I had planned to do so before any of you guys heard about it. My wife is an attorney and just set up her repayment for IBR. The monthly payment on her loans prior to that were absurd. She will also pay off her loans before 20 years. As a resident earning 40K a year and with a family and the expectation of tripling my income in three years, it makes more sense to tread water on the debt when the money is tight.

Anyone that strings their debt along for 20 years is an idiot. First, in 20 years a 7%, he's basically paid off the principle anyways. Secondly, do you think "Johnny" is going to earn $40K his entire career? Don't you think a house, children, and other issues of life are going to put a sense of urgency in paying off his school loans?

IBR recognizes that a lot of college graduates start out in lower paying jobs with the expectation of moving up and making more money. IBR allows them to make it through the low paying years so they can stay afloat and not go belly up and make it to a position of better earn-ability where they can pay off their loans. As it stands, if a student defaults, they are screwed and the government isn't going to get back their loan money anyways.

Acting like this is a hand out is simplistic and silly. If I am still paying my loans in 20 years, I will be of the belief that I really screwed up somewhere.

Frankly, I have yet to see a conservative accurately sum up how the process works.

I am also curious as to why you guys weren't bitching about this back in 2009 when it was introduced. I guess you weren't paying attention, huh?

 

[geauxtohell]

Hey, it's not his money.........................

Really? As soon as he has an income, he pays taxes and he starts to pay for the next generation of kids.

That's another thing, you guys like to act like this money has been ripped out of your wallet as opposed to the collective piggy bank that funds a lot of bullshit that doesn't help our country like higher education.

Get over yourselves. Believe it or not, people aside from the conservatives on USMB pay taxes.

 

[geauxtohell]

Funny. I got a loan for my last semester of undergrad. My parents guaranteed me four years and it took me an extra semester.

The terms of that loan were that I had a six month grace period from graduation to get a job, etc., then interest started adding onto it and I had to make payments.

I had to go overseas for two years immediately after college. Came back, and my first paycheck in the states had that as a deduction - garnished. I didn't know what it was (had forgotten...it happens *blush*) and found out. So, I paid it off in one check to get it out of the way.

Boy, loans sure have changed.

Not really. It's still basically the same. The 6 month grace period is still there and a loan for a single semester is a rarity. Most students are paying loans for 4 years of school.

There is no way I (or 99% of other medical students) could finance a medical degree without loans. The average Medical School debt is into the $150,000 range. I really searched through all my couch cushions but came up sufficiently short.

So, on the one hand, there is a societal need for physicians and lawyers and on the other hand the cost is beyond the reasonable ability of anyone to finance it. So, golly gee, we have a conundrum! How do we help motivated students to become physicians (and nurses and dentists and vets and lawyers)? I guess we could come up with something pragmatic.

Ironically, loans used to be deferred during medical residencies and guess what? Physicians still managed to pay off their loans in around 10 years when they actually had the income to make large payments.

IBR has been enacted so medical residents (and other people starting out at the bottom of the salary scale) aren't forced into the poor house when they are at the low end of the wage pool.

I fail to see why this bothers you guys so much. I am sure someone will be stupid enough to try and string out a loan for 20 years. Guess what? They are only hurting themselves.

As Dave Ramsey says, it's better to be debt free. It's just common sense.

 

[geauxtohell]

Blame the colleges. Prices have gone up twice the rate of inflation plus some. Why is there no discussion on that?

Because it's not going to be fixed anytime soon.

 

[geauxtohell]

I can't understand how anyone would support these lunatics. Like his antics are so obvious? How do you moronic liberals not see it? He wants to turn this country into a socialist society where no one has more money than another. He wants to bail out the bad and screw over the good. Why can't the people that do well in this country and not have debt be rewarded????? Only the people that made bad decisions benefit from Obama. WTF?

Just wait until you go to college. Maybe you will have a rich uncle or something.

 

[chanel]

Obama’s politically-motivated plan to help college students repay their loans « Hot Air

10% of DISCRETIONARY income; then 20 years - bye bye.

Let's say, Johnny owes 120K and gets a decent job making 40K.

How much will he screw the taxpayers for?

Can someone help me with the math?

If these idiots fall for this, they are stupid.

Today obama announced how he is going to save them all "a lot of money" on their Monthly payments.

So how much money? from 4.50 to 7.50 a month total.

Woot, talk about a wind fall.

You don't get a cookie. You get to pay for these deadbeats. How does this work out anyway? So, a kid gets 100k, in 25 years all is forgiven and SOMEONE is left holding this rotten bag. At the rate we're going, we'll be devolving back into monkeys in no time.

What's messed up is he is trying to buy them with a maximum of $4-8 a month.

Whats even more messed up, some people will like him for that.

How many times have I said CON$ always argue both sides of every issue??!!!!

No wonder CON$ don't want people to go to college and learn how to do math!!!

The OP argues that Obama is buying student's votes by forgiving a vast majority of the money borrowed to pay for college. Others agree and an example is given where over the course of 20 years the student saves $183,780 ($212,000 - $28,220) a savings of $765.75 per month over the 20 years. But alternately other CON$ say the savings to students is $5 to $7 per month, and using the max of $7 per month, which comes to a savings of $1,680 over the same 20 years.

So basically the CON$ are arguing that the same Obama policy saves the student almost nothing or almost everything!!!
And not a single CON$ervative will EVER see any conflict between the two arguments about the same policy.

Can you understand why I said I needed help with the math? It's not just me.

 

[Full-Auto]

If these idiots fall for this, they are stupid.

Today obama announced how he is going to save them all "a lot of money" on their Monthly payments.

So how much money? from 4.50 to 7.50 a month total.

Woot, talk about a wind fall.

What's messed up is he is trying to buy them with a maximum of $4-8 a month.

Whats even more messed up, some people will like him for that.

How many times have I said CON$ always argue both sides of every issue??!!!!

No wonder CON$ don't want people to go to college and learn how to do math!!!

The OP argues that Obama is buying student's votes by forgiving a vast majority of the money borrowed to pay for college. Others agree and an example is given where over the course of 20 years the student saves $183,780 ($212,000 - $28,220) a savings of $765.75 per month over the 20 years. But alternately other CON$ say the savings to students is $5 to $7 per month, and using the max of $7 per month, which comes to a savings of $1,680 over the same 20 years.

So basically the CON$ are arguing that the same Obama policy saves the student almost nothing or almost everything!!!
And not a single CON$ervative will EVER see any conflict between the two arguments about the same policy.

Can you understand why I said I needed help with the math? It's not just me.

Regardless of how tallied, its still an attempt at buying votes. The apparent reason for the government take over.

 

[chanel]

Tis very true. Perception is reality.

The funny thing is that I don't think the kids are buying it. They want FREE COLLEGE - not affordable.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The way things are going based on Obama vrs repubican state by state...Obama has a very high chance of being elected. I'd say Obama is 70 percent likely to be reelected to another term.

If you run cain against him he wins
Florida,
Ohio
Az
Co
NC
Iowa
Virgina appears to be 50/50

Romney is the only one that has a chance.

 

[rightwinger]

Tis very true. Perception is reality.

The funny thing is that I don't think the kids are buying it. They want FREE COLLEGE - not affordable.

Is a free education for those who are qualified, that bad a thing for this country? Is a free education less desirable for a society than an education you have to pay $100,000 plus for?

An educated workforce is good for an economy. It is critical in today's society that you have a highly educated worker to do increasingly complex skills. Do we want to return to a society where most the workers can't read and write and only the wealthy can afford higher education?

Much of the world, including China provide free higher education

 

[Jarhead]

Tis very true. Perception is reality.

The funny thing is that I don't think the kids are buying it. They want FREE COLLEGE - not affordable.

Is a free education for those who are qualified, that bad a thing for this country? Is a free education less desirable for a society than an education you have to pay $100,000 plus for?

An educated workforce is good for an economy. It is critical in today's society that you have a highly educated worker to do increasingly complex skills. Do we want to return to a society where most the workers can't read and write and only the wealthy can afford higher education?

Much of the world, including China provide free higher education

And exactly who will run the lathes in a machine shop? Drive the buses so people can get to work? Pick up garbage on collection day? Run the mailroom? Answer the phones? Pick the lettuce? Drive the taxi?

College grads?