Buy Ford.

[Missourian]

I have nothing to back this up other than intuition.

 

[DavidS]

I have nothing to back this up other than intuition.

Up 13 cents.

F: Summary for FORD MOTOR CO - Yahoo! Finance

 

[Missourian]

I mean for the long haul. It started the day today at $1.43 - in five years it will be $30.

 

[DavidS]

I mean for the long haul. It started the day today at $1.43 - in five years it will be $30.

I don't believe in long haul investing. If I'm in a stock more than a week something's wrong.

 

[Luissa]

I have nothing to back this up other than intuition.

That is what I was thinking, these stocks can only go up if they stay in business plus we need to start stimulating the stock market!

 

[Missourian]

That is what I was thinking, these stocks can only go up if they stay in business plus we need to start stimulating the stock market!

Exactly...if any of them make it, it will be FoMoCo.

 

[Luissa]

Exactly...if any of them make it, it will be FoMoCo.

I would go with Chevy actually which actually is more green then any of them and has green vehicles in production. I watched this thing on CBS last week about their factories and how they have already started improvements that people have been demanding these companies do during the bail out talks. I am not an expert though. I can tell you it for sure will not be Chrysler, I think they should just let them go!

 

[DavidS]

Ford went up 9 cents today or 4.9%. GM went up 36 cents or 11.75%.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

I can't imagine putting any money into them or GM until they start closing jobs banks, breaking union contracts, reneging on pension obligations, and closing dealerships. And apparently they can't do any of this without declaring bankruptcy, so yeah. If they could, someone would have bought them already and started making the changes.

 

[Missourian]

Ford is up to $2.15.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Ford is up to $2.15.

I agree, it is a great long term investment. Chapter 11 will only help them. Buy now and hold it.

 

[Luissa]

I agree, it is a great long term investment. Chapter 11 will only help them. Buy now and hold it.

If only people would do this!

 

[NOBama]

I agree, it is a great long term investment. Chapter 11 will only help them. Buy now and hold it.

Man, proceed with caution if they go into bankruptcy. Personally, I hold several thousand shares of Ford and I’ll bail, when I think the time is right, if they go Chapter 11 because, I believe the common shareholder will get wiped out. FWIW, I say this based on experience... Bad experience.

The irony is, if they do file Chapter 11, the stock will probably pop (multifold) because a lot of people will get caught in the “good news” trap that Ford will emerge a better and stronger company, which it will.

On the other hand, maybe they’ll have enough cash to pay off all their creditors, restructure, and leave the common shareholder in tact, but I doubt it.

IMO, the long term buy and hold opportunity for Ford will be after they emerge from bankruptcy, if it happens.

In my mind this is still a Lotto play.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I can't imagine putting any money into them or GM until they start closing jobs banks, breaking union contracts, reneging on pension obligations, and closing dealerships. And apparently they can't do any of this without declaring bankruptcy, so yeah. If they could, someone would have bought them already and started making the changes.

I'm with you BVBM... I'll hold off on Ford until the restructure is announced that will break the strangleholds of both the union and executive compensation packages.

Being in Florida, I have met relatively young retired auto workers who put 35+ years in on the line, starting when they were 19 - 20 years old, and now they draw $4,000 to $5,000 per month plus full medical with no co-pay. I can only imagine what the retired executives bring in while sitting on their yachts. Taking care of retired workers is one thing... the UAW contract and corresponding executive package are ridiculous, and killing the companies.

-Joe

 

[Missourian]

Man, proceed with caution if they go into bankruptcy. Personally, I hold several thousand shares of Ford and I’ll bail, when I think the time is right, if they go Chapter 11 because, I believe the common shareholder will get wiped out. FWIW, I say this based on experience... Bad experience.

The irony is, if they do file Chapter 11, the stock will probably pop (multifold) because a lot of people will get caught in the “good news” trap that Ford will emerge a better and stronger company, which it will.

On the other hand, maybe they’ll have enough cash to pay off all their creditors, restructure, and leave the common shareholder in tact, but I doubt it.

IMO, the long term buy and hold opportunity for Ford will be after they emerge from bankruptcy, if it happens.

In my mind this is still a Lotto play.

I got one word for you Nobama....Kmart.

In 2002, before entering bankruptcy, it was trading at something like 74 cents a share.

By 2004 they were buying Sears.

Today they trade close to $30 a share.

 

[Missourian]

I'm with you BVBM... I'll hold off on Ford until the restructure is announced that will break the strangleholds of both the union and executive compensation packages.

IMO the Democrats won't allow that to happen. The Unions are one of the key columns of party support, one they can't afford to lose. Forcing this December 2 meeting is just a dog and pony show. The Democrat party can't allow a union-busting on their watch.

 

[NOBama]

IMO the Democrats won't allow that to happen. The Unions are one of the key columns of party support, one they can't afford to lose. Forcing this December 2 meeting is just a dog and pony show. The Democrat party can't allow a union-busting on their watch.

I agree. That's a great risk/reward equalizer, for me.

 

[Missourian]

Ford stock up to $2.69.

 

[NOBama]

I got one word for you Nobama....Kmart.

Didn’t the pre-bankruptcy K-Mart shareholders get wiped out?

Fair Funds for Investors: Comparing WorldCom and Kmart

Excerpt

KMART
Like WorldCom, Kmart wound up in Chapter 11. Like WorldCom, Kmart went into Chapter 11 balance-sheet insolvent. But unlike WorldCom’s shareholders, and despite the presence of an equity security holders committee that was supposed to represent Kmart shareholders, the pre-bankruptcy Kmart shareholders got nothing under Kmart’s plan of reorganization, recently confirmed by the Bankruptcy Court.

Outraged Kmart shareholders, including thousands of former employees, are looking for justice, and they believe the law and the system have mistreated them. The problem for Kmart shareholders is that the bankruptcy laws were administered as required, and the shareholders therefore received nothing.

More

Also, Didn't Sears buy up a bunch of K-Mart stores after K-Mart emerged from bankruptcy and before K-Mart bought Sears out? I don’t recall specifically but, I think that was a key factor in making sure K-Mart had enough cash to execute the transaction which ultimately created the Sears Holding Corp., which now owns both K-Mart and Sears.

These are moot points really because, like yourself, I doubt that Ford's going into bankruptcy.

 

[Missourian]

"During Chapter 11 bankruptcy, bondholders stop receiving interest and principal payments, and stockholders stop receiving dividends. If you are a bondholder, you may receive new stock in exchange for your bonds, new bonds or a combination of stock and bonds. If you are a stockholder, the trustee may ask you to send back your stock in exchange for shares in the reorganized company. The new shares may be fewer in number and worth less. The reorganization plan spells out your rights as an investor and what you can expect to receive, if anything, from the company." ...

...Conclusion From an investor's point of view, there isn't much good to say about bankruptcy. No matter what type of investment you made in a company, once it goes bankrupt you are probably going to get a lower return on your investment than you once expected. As an individual investor, you don't have any more say in a company's restructuring plan than you do in any other corporate actions on which shareholders vote.

In general, Chapter 11 is better than Chapter 7, but in either case you shouldn't expect much of your investment back. Relatively few firms undergoing Chapter 11 proceedings are able to be profitable again after a reorganization, and if they do, it is not a quick process. As an investor, you should react to a company's bankruptcy the same way you would if one of your stocks took an unexpected dive: recognize and accept the dramatically reduced prospects of the company, and ask yourself whether or not you still want to be invested in the company. If the answer is no, let go of your failed investment - holding on while the company undergoes bankruptcy proceedings will only lead to sleepless nights and perhaps even greater losses in the future.

More - An Overview Of Corporate Bankruptcy