The ClayTaurus
Senior Member
- Sep 19, 2005
- 7,062
- 333
- 48
Is it manly to pose as a woman?Who's posing?
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Is it manly to pose as a woman?Who's posing?
I am.Ask the man who is.
I am.
You seem to have your parties mixed up, dear.I thought you were posing as Arch? :fifty: Those romantic boat rides with your grandkids gave you away.
As near as I can tell Pentecostals are the only group in Christendom that pushes tithes. The practice is utterly despicable. I have an elderly friend whose only source of income (apart from what her husband could earn when he was working) is a Social Security disability pension. I think she had a nervous breakdown in her early 30s so her mental state has never been good. The whole time I have known this woman she has never been a regular member of any church, but she was on the begging list of dozens of preachers. There were times when this woman would pay the preachers before shed pay her light or water bill.
The womans husband died in 2001 and a little over a year ago she was put into nursing home against her will. She insists that she is being held prisoner so the nursing home can steal her Social Security and Medicaid money. The woman honestly believes that God put her in this nursing home as punishment because she did pay Him enough over the years.
Any preacher that preaches tithes is a crook.
Absolutely not.........The old Presbyterian church that my folks belonged to in Cupertino, Calif, back in the 50's-60's would send around their elders to each member's house, once a year to discuss tithing, and get committments for the following year.
Even though, I don't recognize the Mormon Church as a biblical, Christian church, they have very strict tithing with their members..........to stay in good standing.
I still have a problem with this pressure enacted by churches on their members to "tithe". In some ways, I see it as being rather legalistic. As an earlier poster mentioned; giving should be from the "heart" or as one is "moved" to do it, but not doing it by following
the "letter" of a law, or scripture.
Tithing was trully an O.T. thing.......and I don't believe you'll find Tithing in the N.T. scriptures, as it was tied in so many ways to a legalist, obedience, or performance-based acceptance type of religious life.
Understanding what it means to be in Christ is the key to understanding why tithing is not part of the New Covenant.
In Christ, we are no longer just servants of God who live by laws and principles as people did before the cross and the resurrection. We are now spiritually re-born of God and live by the indwelling Christ himself.
Tithing was instituted for people who had a different relation to God than we now have in Christ. Tithing is inconsistent with the most important aspects of the New Covenant and the believer's new nature in Christ.
Simple application of context reveals the truth of my response:Posing as a woman? Shame on you! Although it does make sense with your name, CliTaurus.
glockmail said:Ask the man who is
The ClayTaurus said:I am (asking the man who is)
Curious that you do not outright deny it. Curious, but not surprising. Perhaps you are ashamed of your gender?What-ever, Clit!
My two cents on this (no pun intended):
I believe that tithing is a Biblical concept. I believe that a Christian's giving should begin with tithing and go up from there. After all, we are not giving God anything except that which is already His. Look through the Bible, and see if you can find one place where God gives up ownership of anything. It's not there. God has called humankind to be stewards of His creation, to include the money that we have. (Not to mention, the practice of tithing was established by Abraham, not the Mosiac law, and so is not "invalidated" by the new covenant.)
I believe that a Christian's tithe should go to the church which he attends. I read through glockmail's posts about his church's budget. I am the stewardship/finance chair at my church, so I'm responsible for putting the church's budget together. We, too, experience about a 1.5-2% "effective tithe." If we got people to tithe fully, we'd be spending about $10 million a year. (As it is, we get about $2.5M/yr.) Frankly, the extra money we get would go to support the several missionaries and charities that we support. It's not accurate to say that all the money in a church goes to line the pockets of the pastors.
I would encourage every Christian to 1) find a church they feel comfortable tithing to, and 2) start tithing.
If the church were to provide all of the services that they did during Abraham's time, then 10% would be more than reasonable. As the guv'mint has taken over most of these duties, and taxes us well in excess of 10% (I figger 50% in many cases) then the 10% asked by some churches is totally unreasonable.
And as I said before, the preists in my church have taken vows of poverty and have the salaries to prove it.
My church has outreach programs as well with a scope far greater than anything Moses could have imagined. Could they do more with 10% of my earnings vs 1 or 2%? Of course. But that's not the point.Some churches do provide those services, albeit in smaller quantities, to the less fortunate members of the congregation or society. Also, the modern church has a mission (i.e. Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all nations) that the Israelites did not have. That mission takes a good bit of money to support - about 15% of my church's budget, IIRC.
My church has outreach programs as well with a scope far greater than anything Moses could have imagined. Could they do more with 10% of my earnings vs 1 or 2%? Of course. But that's not the point.
The Bible decribes the mission of the early church, as well as the required contribution. There was no government, as the church did it all. In contemporay times we have the church and government providing these services and much more, and taking much more. Right now I'm giving about 50% to support these two entities. Where does it end? Does it end when I give everything but 10% to live on?
I understand your concern. However, we are to "give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and give to God what is God's." In other words, what we give to the government shouldn't affect what we give to God.
....
20Keeping a close watch on him, they sent spies, who pretended to be honest. They hoped to catch Jesus in something he said so that they might hand him over to the power and authority of the governor. 21So the spies questioned him: "Teacher, we know that you speak and teach what is right, and that you do not show partiality but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. 22Is it right for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"
23He saw through their duplicity and said to them, 24"Show me a denarius. Whose portrait and inscription are on it?"
25"Caesar's," they replied.
He said to them, "Then give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."
26They were unable to trap him in what he had said there in public. And astonished by his answer, they became silent.