BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Conservatives: masters of the hasty generalization fallacy.

 

[Hellbilly]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Mangling of the language.. NOBODY SAYS (at least nobody well-read) that "Blacks commit more crimes"... NO fucking BODY...

Tell that to Harmonica. He/she/it says it every day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Mangling of the language.. NOBODY SAYS (at least nobody well-read) that "Blacks commit more crimes"... NO fucking BODY...

What is correct is that blacks, especially in predominately black areas "ARE MORE LIKELY" to commit crimes.

The 2 assertions are entirely different and only confusing to you because you refuse to learn the basics of statistics...

Perhaps I've been misled, but I've read that blacks commit more violent crime many times. That African-American males commit between 47% and 52% of homicides and violent crime but only represent 13% of the population.

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

Actually it's a much smaller percentage. Black males make up 7% of the population and that number goes down further when you remove the elderly and the very young.
So what are we left with? Maybe 4% ?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

by the numbers whites commit more crimes
by the percentages blacks are out of frigging control
and a lot of it is black on black crime

stop blaming the white man and take advantage of the world hes built in north America ..no matter if you're ancestors got here in chains or were shoved onto a reservation .
after all the shit blacks have been through in this country under the law Youre actually free and equal Americans

ya fought long and hard and won it dumb asses ...

any one still sitting around crying about evil Y/T is worthless and weak
what do ya want a race war ? you already shed enough of you're own blood

Love that video!!!

 

[Meathead]

Mangling of the language.. NOBODY SAYS (at least nobody well-read) that "Blacks commit more crimes"... NO fucking BODY...

What is correct is that blacks, especially in predominately black areas "ARE MORE LIKELY" to commit crimes.

The 2 assertions are entirely different and only confusing to you because you refuse to learn the basics of statistics...

Perhaps I've been misled, but I've read that blacks commit more violent crime many times. That African-American males commit between 47% and 52% of homicides and violent crime but only represent 13% of the population.

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

NO, black males represent 6% of the population, not 13. Still, they commit most of the murders.

 

[Missourian]

Mangling of the language.. NOBODY SAYS (at least nobody well-read) that "Blacks commit more crimes"... NO fucking BODY...

What is correct is that blacks, especially in predominately black areas "ARE MORE LIKELY" to commit crimes.

The 2 assertions are entirely different and only confusing to you because you refuse to learn the basics of statistics...

Perhaps I've been misled, but I've read that blacks commit more violent crime many times. That African-American males commit between 47% and 52% of homicides and violent crime but only represent 13% of the population.

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

You have been misled. Channel4.com is not fact check. And whites commit the most violent crime.

Channel 4 is BBC 4...not what I'd call right-leaning or fringe. If you don't trust the BBC, hey, I get that...mainstream media can't be trusted...a lot of fake news out there. Give me something reliable that refutes it and I'll read it.

Yup... here it is from fbi.gov...

Table 43

Homicide and Robbery higher than Whites, and I'm pretty sure that Hispanic is grouped in with White in this chart.

Yep and every other crime lower. Stop blaming Hispanics when there are more whites and there are black Hispanics.

Who's blaming Hispanics?

After being corrected above (thanks HereWeGoAgain & Meathead ) I went to Wikipedia and retrieved the stats.

Whites are 73.3% of the population and Blacks are 12.6%

But that 12.6% is commiting 49.4% of all murders.
And the 73.3% of the population that is white is commiting 48.2%.

Even when the percentage is lower...like aggravated assault statistics, you have 12.6% of the population commiting 34% of the assaults while 73.3% of the population commits 62% of assaults.


How does that apply to the OP?

If Black crime was proportional to population demographics, African-Americans would commit 12.6% of murders and 12.6% of violent crime. That is obviously not the case. The fact is, African-American violent crime is roughly three times higher (33%), and homicides are four times higher (49%) proportionally compared to their population percentage.

It follows that the number of African-Americans killed by police should be in line not with percentage of population (12.6%) but with likelyhood of commiting violent crime (roughly 36%), or perhaps at a minimum, the total percentage of arrests of African-Americans (28%)...but it is actually lower than both at 23%.(link)

If there is a flaw in this logic, I'm happy to hear it.

I also understand the point of the OP. The majority of society is law abiding. But we are discussing the statistic that police shootings of African-Americans are double their population percentage...and the reason, statistically speaking, is likely that African-Americans are committing crimes at a rate of three to four times that which their population percentage dictates should be the norm.

 

[AveryJarhman]

​

For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Why is it few Americans address the very first crime far too many American children experience, THRU NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN!

"Black Children Have Highest Abuse Rates" By Jazelle Hunt, BlackVoiceNews.com

Black Children Have Highest Abuse Rates

Jazelle Hunt, a Washington correspondent for the National Newspaper Publishers Association News Service, recently completed week-long training at the University of Southern California as one of 14 journalists awarded a 2014 National Health Fellowship.

___


___​

Introducing 'SOULutions' oriented Child Abuse Awareness, Education & PREVENTION Advocate, California Surgeon General Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, MD, FAAP, MPH, Founder and CEO of the 'Center for Youth Wellness'.



Peace.

 

[boedicca]

Oh Goody!

Yet another Racist Race Baiting thread by a Racist Race Baiting Race Baiter.

 

[MarathonMike]

50 years of listening to Al Sharpton and the rest of America's Black "leaders" has led to violence, failure and unhappiness. Try listening to men like Dr. Shelby Steele he speaks common sense and plain truth.
https://www.newsmax.com/Politics/shelby-steele-blacks-victimized-by-liberalism/2017/11/12/id/825604/

 

[protectionist]

Shut up. The white man will be held accountable for what he has done and keeps doing. And listen punk, you can stop trying to threaten people with a race war every time your white ass gets butthurt. We all gotta die one day so do I shut up because some punk ass saltine threatens a war, or do I allow myself to get punked then stand before God with eternity on the line and he asks me why didn't I stand against racism? My choice is easy so until the white man stops, the fight doesn't.

So when you "stand before God with eternity on the line, and he asks you why didn't you stand against racism", you will have to admit that you did not stand against Affirmative Action's racism. Good luck.

Glad I won't be standing in those kind of shoes.

 

[protectionist]

So being armed is a valid reason for the cops to kill you? I thought it was a constitutional right to be armed. Please make up your mind.

Being a THREAT is a valid reason for cops to shoot you (whether you are armed or not)

 

[Flash]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Libtard denial "Ma babydidunutin".

 

[flacaltenn]

Yup... here it is from fbi.gov...

Table 43

Homicide and Robbery higher than Whites, and I'm pretty sure that Hispanic is grouped in with White in this chart.

That's an anomaly because homicides are a relatively rare crime.. And still, in 90% of america, WHITES commit the majority of homicides. It's those 8 or 10 pestilent, dangerous communities that run up the numbers.. USUALLY with black on black homicides...

For more evenly distributed crimes -- it's only a statistical argument about being "more likely" to commit crime..And STILL the numbers that back this up are WARPED by those 8 or 10 communities.. And we know which place those are...

 

[flacaltenn]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Mangling of the language.. NOBODY SAYS (at least nobody well-read) that "Blacks commit more crimes"... NO fucking BODY...

What is correct is that blacks, especially in predominately black areas "ARE MORE LIKELY" to commit crimes.

The 2 assertions are entirely different and only confusing to you because you refuse to learn the basics of statistics...

You obviously haven't read many posts on this site. The claim that blacks commit more crimes is made EVERY DAY. The fact that more blacks than whites are in prison is used to justify that claim EVERY DAY.

Well those idiots are just as wrong as IM2 asserting that "committing more crimes" is just another way of saying "more LIKELY to commit crimes".. Both are wrong. That's why you and I are here to set the record straight...

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

by the numbers whites commit more crimes
by the percentages blacks are out of frigging control
and a lot of it is black on black crime

stop blaming the white man and take advantage of the world hes built in north America ..no matter if you're ancestors got here in chains or were shoved onto a reservation .
after all the shit blacks have been through in this country under the law Youre actually free and equal Americans

ya fought long and hard and won it dumb asses ...

any one still sitting around crying about evil Y/T is worthless and weak
what do ya want a race war ? you already shed enough of you're own blood

Shut up. The white man will be held accountable for what he has done and keeps doing. And listen punk, you can stop trying to threaten people with a race war every time your white ass gets butthurt. We all gotta die one day so do I shut up because some punk ass saltine threatens a war, or do I allow myself to get punked then stand before God with eternity on the line and he asks me why didn't I stand against racism? My choice is easy so until the white man stops, the fight doesn't.

i didnt threaten a race war .i simply asked if thats what you want? ....ya big CRYING half a fag baby
so youre just gonna cry like a bitch until the white man stops "opressing you "

knock yourself out homie homeslice
let us know when ya wanna leave the hate filled dem plantation kunta

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

blacks commit crimes at MUCH higher rates than whites
FACT
???!!!!!!???
blacks graduate at lower rates--- FACT
ASterling = cops did everything right--they tried their best NOT to shoot him
.....but he kept resisting/kept escalating the problem and he KNEW he had a pistol--but he kept resisting
etc
this is not rocket science for '''scholars'' [ hahahahahhahaha ] to discuss
you have a pistol and resist arrest = you probably will JUSTIFIABLY get shot
K Scott had a pistol
..you act in a threatening manner/etc you will get shot

When did you graduate Harmonica?

 

[flacaltenn]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Mangling of the language.. NOBODY SAYS (at least nobody well-read) that "Blacks commit more crimes"... NO fucking BODY...

What is correct is that blacks, especially in predominately black areas "ARE MORE LIKELY" to commit crimes.

The 2 assertions are entirely different and only confusing to you because you refuse to learn the basics of statistics...

I know understand stats far better than you. And I've shown you that. Now, if you have a problem with the title of the article used in the OP, the writers name is listed and there is a link to the article. So you go argue with him about what you conservatives have never said.

And YET you've continually showed an inability to grasp how to NORMALIZE a "likelihood of any simple event".. Likelihoods are NOT not comparable by RAW numbers of that event. But since you're the genius of "know understanding statistics" (sic) -- you already knew that..

I'm actually SUPPORTING your argument here. But you "know understand" statistics so poorly, you don't even realize I'm trying to help you out...

 

[katsteve2012]

blacks commit crimes at MUCH higher rates than whites
FACT
???!!!!!!???
blacks graduate at lower rates--- FACT
ASterling = cops did everything right--they tried their best NOT to shoot him
.....but he kept resisting/kept escalating the problem and he KNEW he had a pistol--but he kept resisting
etc
this is not rocket science for '''scholars'' [ hahahahahhahaha ] to discuss
you have a pistol and resist arrest = you probably will JUSTIFIABLY get shot
K Scott had a pistol
..you act in a threatening manner/etc you will get shot

When did you graduate Harmonica?

blacks commit crimes at MUCH higher rates than whites
FACT
???!!!!!!???
blacks graduate at lower rates--- FACT
ASterling = cops did everything right--they tried their best NOT to shoot him
.....but he kept resisting/kept escalating the problem and he KNEW he had a pistol--but he kept resisting
etc
this is not rocket science for '''scholars'' [ hahahahahhahaha ] to discuss
you have a pistol and resist arrest = you probably will JUSTIFIABLY get shot
K Scott had a pistol
..you act in a threatening manner/etc you will get shot

When did you graduate Harmonica?

Does passing 6th grade, count as "graduating"?

 

[Meathead]

blacks commit crimes at MUCH higher rates than whites
FACT
???!!!!!!???
blacks graduate at lower rates--- FACT
ASterling = cops did everything right--they tried their best NOT to shoot him
.....but he kept resisting/kept escalating the problem and he KNEW he had a pistol--but he kept resisting
etc
this is not rocket science for '''scholars'' [ hahahahahhahaha ] to discuss
you have a pistol and resist arrest = you probably will JUSTIFIABLY get shot
K Scott had a pistol
..you act in a threatening manner/etc you will get shot

When did you graduate Harmonica?

blacks commit crimes at MUCH higher rates than whites
FACT
???!!!!!!???
blacks graduate at lower rates--- FACT
ASterling = cops did everything right--they tried their best NOT to shoot him
.....but he kept resisting/kept escalating the problem and he KNEW he had a pistol--but he kept resisting
etc
this is not rocket science for '''scholars'' [ hahahahahhahaha ] to discuss
you have a pistol and resist arrest = you probably will JUSTIFIABLY get shot
K Scott had a pistol
..you act in a threatening manner/etc you will get shot

When did you graduate Harmonica?

Does passing 6th grade, count as "graduating"?

|In the hood a 6th-grade education and an IQ of 80 passes for scholars and geniuses.

 

[harmonica]

blacks commit crimes at MUCH higher rates than whites
FACT
???!!!!!!???
blacks graduate at lower rates--- FACT
ASterling = cops did everything right--they tried their best NOT to shoot him
.....but he kept resisting/kept escalating the problem and he KNEW he had a pistol--but he kept resisting
etc
this is not rocket science for '''scholars'' [ hahahahahhahaha ] to discuss
you have a pistol and resist arrest = you probably will JUSTIFIABLY get shot
K Scott had a pistol
..you act in a threatening manner/etc you will get shot

When did you graduate Harmonica?

I didn't
this is me