Bush has mind control on France

[Dr Grump]

Once again for clarity, you have already admitted the ambitions of Iran to gain Nuclear weapons predates 2003, So exactly HOW did we cause Iran to pursue nuclear weapons? And you may want to check your facts, Europe is HEAVILY involved in th Iran Nuclear situation, France has said it may mean WAR. And they don't mean US Iran they mean Europe may need to go to war with Iran.

What were their ambitions pre 2003? Can you give evidence? Also, in your first link, if you click on the photo of the revolutionary guards, it quotes the French PM disagreeing with its foreign minister. And since when is the foreign minister speaking for A) French politicos, B) Europe C) Words have become sacrosanct...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What were their ambitions pre 2003? Can you give evidence? Also, in your first link, if you click on the photo of the revolutionary guards, it quotes the French PM disagreeing with its foreign minister. And since when is the foreign minister speaking for A) French politicos, B) Europe C) Words have become sacrosanct...

Iran has had ambitions on all the oil in the middle east for sometime. But more importantly they want to destroy Israel. Iraq under Saddam Hussein was the threat to Iran. He started an 8 year war with them. A war in which we helped both sides. The US has made no threats against Iran until recently and then only because they are trying to gain nuclear weapons.

But do remind us how since 2003 the Iranians have just started a nuclear weapons program and are so good at it they will have the bomb in the next few years. Remind us how the US forced Europe and Asia and the whole world to be dependent on oil and specifically Iraqi oil.

 

[maineman]

Iran has had ambitions on all the oil in the middle east for sometime. But more importantly they want to destroy Israel. Iraq under Saddam Hussein was the threat to Iran. He started an 8 year war with them. A war in which we helped both sides. The US has made no threats against Iran until recently and then only because they are trying to gain nuclear weapons.

But do remind us how since 2003 the Iranians have just started a nuclear weapons program and are so good at it they will have the bomb in the next few years. Remind us how the US forced Europe and Asia and the whole world to be dependent on oil and specifically Iraqi oil.

Iraq under Saddam was a threat to Iran? No kidding?
Iraq under Saddam was a place where Islamic extremists were pretty much persona non grata
Iraq under Saddam was a place where sunnis and shiites did not engage in wholesale slaughter of one another.

Tell me again, in the aftermath of 9/11, when our real enemies remained on the loose, tell me again why it was such an immediately necessary thing to do to shift focus and invade Iraq to depose Saddam.

 

[Dr Grump]

Iran has had ambitions on all the oil in the middle east for sometime.

Really? Your proof of this is where?

But more importantly they want to destroy Israel.

As do all Muslim countries - even those who have a peace treaty with them. And?

But do remind us how since 2003 the Iranians have just started a nuclear weapons program and are so good at it they will have the bomb in the next few years. Remind us how the US forced Europe and Asia and the whole world to be dependent on oil and specifically Iraqi oil.

You still haven't answered as to what that has to do with you guys stirring up a hornets nest over there. Are you now saying the invasion of Iraq was now really about sorting Iran out?

 

[doniston]

Remind me again how Iran is no threat and Bush is Unilaterally pushing for action against a peaceful, friendly Iran.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070916/wl_nm/iran_france_war_dc

A better question would be--- "Remind me again why ANYONE should pay the slightest attention to what France says"

 

[Annie]

A better question would be--- "Remind me again why ANYONE should pay the slightest attention to what France says"

Of course, today when they backed off from that, you felt exactly the same way?

 

[doniston]

Iran has had ambitions on all the oil in the middle east for sometime. But more importantly they want to destroy Israel. Iraq under Saddam Hussein was the threat to Iran. He started an 8 year war with them. A war in which we helped both sides. The US has made no threats against Iran until recently and then only because they are trying to gain nuclear weapons.


QUOTE] Correction..... because the US ASSUMES that Iran desires Nukes.

In my firm belief, they already HAVE Nukes (by purchase, and if they don't they can get them.

 

[doniston]

Of course, today when they backed off from that, you felt exactly the same way?

Today when they backed off of "WHAT"??? My feelings go back to WWII

I was later stationed there. and learned first hand.

 

[Annie]

Today when they backed off of "WHAT"??? My feelings go back to WWII

I was later stationed there. and learned first hand.

Read sir.

 

[doniston]

Read sir.

Read what???? kindly clarify your thoughts.

 

[Annie]

Read what???? kindly clarify your thoughts.

Kindly follow along.

 

[Gunny]

With the world relying on oil supplies, the world vicariously becomes an unsafer place. Why should the world take on a problem the US created?

The US created the problem in Iran? I don't think so. The problem in Iran is religious fundamnetalism.

 

[Dr Grump]

The US created the problem in Iran? I don't think so. The problem in Iran is religious fundamnetalism.

Fundamentalism is a problem for sure. I mean the latest problem. Iran was a regional problem. It was a problem for Iraq, it wasn't a world problem. Now it is thanks to the US saber rattling. Shoulda just kept its nose out of the region. However like 9-11 where Bush had to be seen to be doing something (even if it was aimed at the wrong target), the US problem with Iran is that the Persians spanked your bums back in 1980 with the hostage crisis and they have never been forgiven for doing so. If there is one thing that the US hates more than anything it's having its arse handed to it on a platter. IOW, it hates being embarrassed and therefore retaliates accordingly instead of letting a sleeping dog lie...

 

[Gunny]

Fundamentalism is a problem for sure. I mean the latest problem. Iran was a regional problem. It was a problem for Iraq, it wasn't a world problem. Now it is thanks to the US saber rattling. Shoulda just kept its nose out of the region. However like 9-11 where Bush had to be seen to be doing something (even if it was aimed at the wrong target), the US problem with Iran is that the Persians spanked your bums back in 1980 with the hostage crisis and they have never been forgiven for doing so. If there is one thing that the US hates more than anything it's having its arse handed to it on a platter. IOW, it hates being embarrassed and therefore retaliates accordingly instead of letting a sleeping dog lie...

You actually believe that Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons is because of US saber-rattling? I disagree.

And Iran didn't spank anything. Jimmy Carter spanked his own ass.

If that supposedly "sleeping dog" is trying to attain the power to destroy the entire world, no it should not be left alone. It should be hounded until it either abandons its plans or is killed.

 

[Dr Grump]

You actually believe that Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons is because of US saber-rattling? I disagree.

And Iran didn't spank anything. Jimmy Carter spanked his own ass.

If that supposedly "sleeping dog" is trying to attain the power to destroy the entire world, no it should not be left alone. It should be hounded until it either abandons its plans or is killed.

I have never seen any actual (or rhetorical to be honest) evidence that Iran wants to rule the world.

 

[Annie]

I have never seen any actual (or rhetorical to be honest) evidence that Iran wants to rule the world.

Funny how 'literal' libs can be, when it suits them. Most of the time, they are crying for 'context.'

 

[Dr Grump]

Funny how 'literal' libs can be, when it suits them. Most of the time, they are crying for 'context.'

It's a pretty heavy charge. One would think it would be easily provable....

 

[Gunny]

I have never seen any actual (or rhetorical to be honest) evidence that Iran wants to rule the world.

Other than its radical Islamist gov't's doctrine? No radical regime should have the power to destroy anything more than itself.

 

[DeadCanDance]

And lets see, FRANCE and the IAEA DO say Ira is a threat, FRANCE says War may be required.... But do pretend otherwise.

Do you just routinely pull stuff out of your ass and hope no one checks?

IAEA has not said Iran is a threat...they have not said iran has or is even developing nuclear weapons.

http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/News/2007/dg_gcstatement.html

IAEA says they ARE able to verify the non-diversion of nuclear material in Iran. That means they are able to verify that nuclear material IS going only into the civilian program, and not a weapons program. There are other verifications issues they are haggling about, but those are details that need to be hashed out. There's no proof of a nuclear weapons program.

The burden of proof is on you and Bush, after your Iraq fiasco.
Bush says they are developing nuclear weapons, but has provided no evidence. That's not good enough given your and Bush's history.

This is not to say we don't keep the pressure on iran to compel them to upgrade the IAEA verification inspections. But, if you want a war, you've got to do better than this. Given your track record of nearly always being wrong.

 

[Dr Grump]

Other than its radical Islamist gov't's doctrine? No radical regime should have the power to destroy anything more than itself.

I have never seen wanting to export their version of Islam by force. They have supported terrorist groups that they think can help their version of Islam, but generally that was in the ME, and IMO, it is the MEs's problem. But in saying that, when have they ever shown expansionist tendancies? I agree with your last statement, and as far as I can make out, they have no intention of destroying anything...