Bronze and Silver Obamacare Program are GARBAGE - Liberals let’s not forget this.

[flacaltenn]

That was selected out of GROUP of Cigna plans and has the most MINIMAL network of providers.

Looks like virtually every acute care hospital in Nashville is in that plan's network. So whichever one your hypothetical kid went to was in.

For instance. I looked at one of these plans. I have bi-annual derm appointments. They are BOOKED 4 to 6 months in advance. The skinny plan that you picked uses a network with ONE dermatology group within 20 miles of my location... And it wasn't anyone that I WANTED to use.

Not sure why we need a dermatologist to fix the child's clavicle. But that network has at least 30 dermatologists within 20 miles of Nashville.

And NEITHER of these calculations account for the ACTUAL health needs of the REST of that family..
That year- it's VERY likely that on THAT plan -- they would come close or exceed the FAMILY deductible of $1600.. Another $500 or $800 out of their pockets.

If more people break more bones and use more services, they'll pay more for health care, sure. Their income is still substantially protected by their out-of-pocket limit. Hitting the family OOP max would require two family members to each incur costs of at least $17.3K. That is to say, family costs of $34.6K. Hard to argue in that situation their premiums + OOP contributions aren't worth it.

But I guess we could further expand Medicaid to even higher incomes so they pay nothing if that's what you're getting at.

I'm not IN Nashville. My preferred hospital is in NONE of the plans that I can afford without subsidy. I am SUBSIDIZING all those Medicaid expansion folks. MY premiums are TEN TIMES what the "expansion" folks pay.

Medicare costs should not be HIDDEN in the Pool. That's what they did. It's quite possible that Medicare plans state by state ought to INCLUDE a paid up CATASTROPHIC health plan thru the market providers. But under the terms of O'care --- CATASTROPHIC plans are illegal. Medicaid costs need to be covered by the GENERAL taxpayer base.

Hitting the family OOP max would require two family members to each incur costs of at least $17.3K. That is to say, family costs of $34.6K

Don't know where you got this. The FAMILY deductible is $1600 for the crappy clinic plan you cherry picked. The only time you hit the higher OOP limits is when you've used OUT OF NETWORK or UNPREFERRED providers. Which might happen under a "skinny network" plan..

 

[Greenbeard]

I'm not IN Nashville. My preferred hospital is in NONE of the plans that I can afford without subsidy. I am SUBSIDIZING all those Medicaid expansion folks. MY premiums are TEN TIMES what the "expansion" folks pay.

Are we now talking about you or a hypothetical family making less than $40K that has a kid with a broken clavicle?

Plans in the open market price network breadth for you. If you want the most expensive hospital in your area in-network, you'll pay more than if you buy a plan that only has less expensive hospitals in network. If the additional premium is worth it to you, go for it. If it's not, buy a cheaper plan and take your business to that hospital's competitors. This is what markets look like.

Don't know where you got this. The FAMILY deductible is $1600 for the crappy clinic plan you cherry picked. The only time you hit the higher OOP limits is when you've used OUT OF NETWORK or UNPREFERRED providers. Which might happen under a "skinny network" plan..

Weren't you trying to argue that your hypothetical family is paying a lot out of pocket toward the thousands of dollars of hospital bills they're racking up?

 

[dblack]

According to facts that proved the shit policies to be shit policies....ripoffs. Simple. The government regulates businesses to protect consumers. It is how shit is done in places with laws and stuff. Catch up.

Right. Government knows what's best for us and we should just shut up and follow orders. Piss off.

 

[LoneLaugher]

According to facts that proved the shit policies to be shit policies....ripoffs. Simple. The government regulates businesses to protect consumers. It is how shit is done in places with laws and stuff. Catch up.

Right. Government knows what's best for us and we should just shut up and follow orders. Piss off.

Asshole. We elect the people who run the government. It’s within our power to make them do our bidding. If retards like you would at least try to work from a position grounded in facts and evidence, the task would become much easier.

 

[beagle9]

I'm not IN Nashville. My preferred hospital is in NONE of the plans that I can afford without subsidy. I am SUBSIDIZING all those Medicaid expansion folks. MY premiums are TEN TIMES what the "expansion" folks pay.

Are we now talking about you or a hypothetical family making less than $40K that has a kid with a broken clavicle?

Plans in the open market price network breadth for you. If you want the most expensive hospital in your area in-network, you'll pay more than if you buy a plan that only has less expensive hospitals in network. If the additional premium is worth it to you, go for it. If it's not, buy a cheaper plan and take your business to that hospital's competitors. This is what markets look like.

Don't know where you got this. The FAMILY deductible is $1600 for the crappy clinic plan you cherry picked. The only time you hit the higher OOP limits is when you've used OUT OF NETWORK or UNPREFERRED providers. Which might happen under a "skinny network" plan..

Weren't you trying to argue that your hypothetical family is paying a lot out of pocket toward the thousands of dollars of hospital bills they're racking up?

. Buy a cheaper plan, and go get some of that cheaper care at that cheaper hospital who accepts the cheaper plans eh ?? So you go in with that broken clavicle, and come out with a missing arm eh ?? LOL

 

[Greenbeard]

Buy a cheaper plan, and go get some of that cheaper care at that cheaper hospital who accepts the cheaper plans eh ?? So you go in with that broken clavicle, and come out with a missing arm eh ?? LOL

When you stay at the Hilton you're going to pay more than when you stay at the Holiday Inn. Welcome to real life.

 

[deanrd]

Silly Republicans, such funi fukers. Trying to convince us nothing was better.

 

[beagle9]

Buy a cheaper plan, and go get some of that cheaper care at that cheaper hospital who accepts the cheaper plans eh ?? So you go in with that broken clavicle, and come out with a missing arm eh ?? LOL

When you stay at the Hilton you're going to pay more than when you stay at the Holiday Inn. Welcome to real life.

. You equating a Hotel stay with someone's surgical procedure ?? Really you just did that ?? Pathetic !

 

[Greenbeard]

You equating a Hotel stay with someone surgical procedure ?? Really you just did that ?? Pathetic !

Yes. More expensive things cost more. It's tautological.

If you want to go to a pricier hospital, by all means go. But don't complain about paying more.

 

[beagle9]

You equating a Hotel stay with someone surgical procedure ?? Really you just did that ?? Pathetic !

Yes. More expensive things cost more. It's tautological.

If you want to go to a pricier hospital, by all means go. But don't complain about paying more.

. When it comes to the Healthcare of human beings, there shouldn't be none of this bullcrap of this one gets a bionic hand, and this one gets a chicken foot for a hand. LOL

 

[beagle9]

You equating a Hotel stay with someone surgical procedure ?? Really you just did that ?? Pathetic !

Yes. More expensive things cost more. It's tautological.

If you want to go to a pricier hospital, by all means go. But don't complain about paying more.

. So if you live alone and ride a moped, and your distance is only to that expensive hospital, then you're supposed to say to yourself hmmm, I best get me a bigger coat, some extra gallons of gasoline in milk jugs, and try to make it to that cheaper facility that is 40 miles away somehow eh ?? Do you realize how many people live out in rural small towns ??

 

[LoneLaugher]

You equating a Hotel stay with someone surgical procedure ?? Really you just did that ?? Pathetic !

Yes. More expensive things cost more. It's tautological.

If you want to go to a pricier hospital, by all means go. But don't complain about paying more.

. When it comes to the Healthcare of human beings, there shouldn't be none of this bullcrap of this one gets a bionic hand, and this one gets a chicken foot for a hand. LOL

You are beginning to sound like a lib. Careful.

 

[Greenbeard]

So if you live alone and ride a moped, and your distance is only to that expensive hospital, then you're supposed to say to yourself hmmm, I best get me a bigger coat, some extra gallons of gasoline in milk jugs, and try to make it to that cheaper facility that is 40 miles away somehow eh ?? Do you realize how many people live out in rural small towns ??

Maybe you haven't realized this but health care generally costs more in rural areas. There's little to no competition and facilities have to support their fixed costs with a smaller patient base than hospitals in denser areas. That's just a structural reality they face. It's a cost of living in a rural area, just like higher rents are a cost of living in a dense urban area.

That doesn't change the fact that those who live in areas with multiple options are getting different network options priced for them by the market: wide network plans that include high-cost/high-priced hospitals will have higher premiums than small networks that don't include expensive providers. It's up to the consumer to choose whether a wider network is worth the cost.

 

[dblack]

According to facts that proved the shit policies to be shit policies....ripoffs. Simple. The government regulates businesses to protect consumers. It is how shit is done in places with laws and stuff. Catch up.

Right. Government knows what's best for us and we should just shut up and follow orders. Piss off.

Asshole. We elect the people who run the government. It’s within our power to make them do our bidding.

Yes, the good ole "will of the people". The founders knew better than to create a government based on unlimited democracy. The government isn't there to do your bidding - or anyone else's. It's there to protect each individual's rights to do their own "bidding". Not to enable them to force their will on others.

 

[LoneLaugher]

According to facts that proved the shit policies to be shit policies....ripoffs. Simple. The government regulates businesses to protect consumers. It is how shit is done in places with laws and stuff. Catch up.

Right. Government knows what's best for us and we should just shut up and follow orders. Piss off.

Asshole. We elect the people who run the government. It’s within our power to make them do our bidding.

Yes, the good ole "will of the people". The founders knew better than to create a government based on unlimited democracy. The government isn't there to do your bidding - or anyone else's. It's there to protect each individual's rights to do their own "bidding". Not to enable them to force their will on others.

Shadduppppp. You bore me. You take full advantage of what BIG GOVERNMENT provides for you but you don't want to contribute. You suck for that.

You wouldn't last a month without the collective funding of all that protects you and provides opportunity for you. And if you think you are a rugged outdoors type who can "make it on his own", you'd be lucky to ever have a cold drink or a toilet that is more than a hole in the ground. Asshole. It is called society. Join it.

 

[dblack]

According to facts that proved the shit policies to be shit policies....ripoffs. Simple. The government regulates businesses to protect consumers. It is how shit is done in places with laws and stuff. Catch up.

Right. Government knows what's best for us and we should just shut up and follow orders. Piss off.

Asshole. We elect the people who run the government. It’s within our power to make them do our bidding.

Yes, the good ole "will of the people". The founders knew better than to create a government based on unlimited democracy. The government isn't there to do your bidding - or anyone else's. It's there to protect each individual's rights to do their own "bidding". Not to enable them to force their will on others.

Shadduppppp. You bore me. You take full advantage of what BIG GOVERNMENT provides for you but you don't want to contribute. You suck for that.

You wouldn't last a month without the collective funding of all that protects you and provides opportunity for you. And if you think you are a rugged outdoors type who can "make it on his own", you'd be lucky to ever have a cold drink or a toilet that is more than a hole in the ground. Asshole. It is called society. Join it.

Personal attacks already? Thought you might actually have an argument this time. Oh well.

 

[LoneLaugher]

According to facts that proved the shit policies to be shit policies....ripoffs. Simple. The government regulates businesses to protect consumers. It is how shit is done in places with laws and stuff. Catch up.

Right. Government knows what's best for us and we should just shut up and follow orders. Piss off.

Asshole. We elect the people who run the government. It’s within our power to make them do our bidding.

Yes, the good ole "will of the people". The founders knew better than to create a government based on unlimited democracy. The government isn't there to do your bidding - or anyone else's. It's there to protect each individual's rights to do their own "bidding". Not to enable them to force their will on others.

Shadduppppp. You bore me. You take full advantage of what BIG GOVERNMENT provides for you but you don't want to contribute. You suck for that.

You wouldn't last a month without the collective funding of all that protects you and provides opportunity for you. And if you think you are a rugged outdoors type who can "make it on his own", you'd be lucky to ever have a cold drink or a toilet that is more than a hole in the ground. Asshole. It is called society. Join it.

Personal attacks already? Thought you might actually have an argument this time. Oh well.

You got the argument. You went stupid.

 

[dblack]

Right. Government knows what's best for us and we should just shut up and follow orders. Piss off.

Asshole. We elect the people who run the government. It’s within our power to make them do our bidding.

Yes, the good ole "will of the people". The founders knew better than to create a government based on unlimited democracy. The government isn't there to do your bidding - or anyone else's. It's there to protect each individual's rights to do their own "bidding". Not to enable them to force their will on others.

Shadduppppp. You bore me. You take full advantage of what BIG GOVERNMENT provides for you but you don't want to contribute. You suck for that.

You wouldn't last a month without the collective funding of all that protects you and provides opportunity for you. And if you think you are a rugged outdoors type who can "make it on his own", you'd be lucky to ever have a cold drink or a toilet that is more than a hole in the ground. Asshole. It is called society. Join it.

Personal attacks already? Thought you might actually have an argument this time. Oh well.

You got the argument. You went stupid.

Well you're a poo-poo head!

 

[beagle9]

So if you live alone and ride a moped, and your distance is only to that expensive hospital, then you're supposed to say to yourself hmmm, I best get me a bigger coat, some extra gallons of gasoline in milk jugs, and try to make it to that cheaper facility that is 40 miles away somehow eh ?? Do you realize how many people live out in rural small towns ??

Maybe you haven't realized this but health care generally costs more in rural areas. There's little to no competition and facilities have to support their fixed costs with a smaller patient base than hospitals in denser areas. That's just a structural reality they face. It's a cost of living in a rural area, just like higher rents are a cost of living in a dense urban area.

That doesn't change the fact that those who live in areas with multiple options are getting different network options priced for them by the market: wide network plans that include high-cost/high-priced hospitals will have higher premiums than small networks that don't include expensive providers. It's up to the consumer to choose whether a wider network is worth the cost.

. Good grief... How in the world can equality exist in the healthcare of human beings if we haven't figured out how to fix these crazy problems of this person paying more but getting less, and this person paying less and getting more, and this person getting better quality, while this person gets poor quality on and on and on ??? Don't all humans pull their pants up one leg at a time ? Well maybe not the one that went in for a hernia operation, but came out missing his leg.

 

[beagle9]

According to facts that proved the shit policies to be shit policies....ripoffs. Simple. The government regulates businesses to protect consumers. It is how shit is done in places with laws and stuff. Catch up.

Right. Government knows what's best for us and we should just shut up and follow orders. Piss off.

Asshole. We elect the people who run the government. It’s within our power to make them do our bidding.

Yes, the good ole "will of the people". The founders knew better than to create a government based on unlimited democracy. The government isn't there to do your bidding - or anyone else's. It's there to protect each individual's rights to do their own "bidding". Not to enable them to force their will on others.

Shadduppppp. You bore me. You take full advantage of what BIG GOVERNMENT provides for you but you don't want to contribute. You suck for that.

You wouldn't last a month without the collective funding of all that protects you and provides opportunity for you. And if you think you are a rugged outdoors type who can "make it on his own", you'd be lucky to ever have a cold drink or a toilet that is more than a hole in the ground. Asshole. It is called society. Join it.

No independent thinking in society eh ?

No pulling oneself up by one's own bootstrap's eh ?

No honor in merit type thinking eh ?

Let the collective drag down progress eh ?

You see it all depends on the type of collective in which you're promoting or that has been created over time in which does make a huge difference in the progress of society or the retracting of a society.