Breaking: Obama To Address Nation Tonight. Will Bypass Congress & Invoke 14th Amendmt

[dilloduck]

Read the powers of the branches of Government. Only Congress has the power to incur debt for the Government.

I don't think raising the ceiling is incurring debt. I think it is subjective. I get credit card offers in the mail everyday. It's up to me (Congress) to decide to use them.

However the move as I see it is also political suicide for the President.

Oh...I see the point you are making.

Saying "we can borrow more" is not the same as actually borrowing more.

Yoiu are correct.

But what happens when it is time to borrow more?

He blames Congress for not doing it.

 

[MaggieMae]

Watching the news right now. Boehner just laid out a plan about 40 minutes ago. Now Obama has decided before the nation tonight at 9 eastern (8 Central time) and aids are saying he will go ahead and bypass congress and invoke the 14th amendment which experts say will increase the crisis because the Constitution states that he can't do it without the lawful approval of Congress. Does this mean that SS checks will not go out for seniors and veterans? We will find out I guess. The word is that he can be impeached if he allows us to default. The sign that hints to Obama stating he will invoke the 14th Amendment was this in his La Raza speech earlier today which is in this link.

Obama: I'd Like 'to Bypass Congress and Change the Rules on My Own' - George E. Condon Jr. - NationalJournal.com

President Obama let his frustration over the stalled debt talks seep into an address on Latino issues on Monday, confessing that he’d like to “bypass Congress and change the laws on my own.”

What does sound like he wants to be? That's right, a dictator. I guess we will find out tonight.

This is such a no-brainer, it's shocking that a once respectable publication like The National Journal would even jump into the ridiciculous fray. The 14th amendment REQUIRES that existing debt obligations be paid.

OPERATIVE WORD: EXISTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Here’s what the amendment actually says:

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned...[It goes on to say]...But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void."

The Republican talking heads continue to assert that raising the debt ceiling gives the president carte blanche permission to continue to borrow more money—without the approval of Congress—in order to keep paying off past loans. That is NOT the purpose, nor is it what would happen with a one-paragraph bill raising the debt ceiling this time around.

Republicans are insisting on making this political by choosing to incorporate future budget propositions into this singular CONSTITUTIONAL requirement. Enough!!!

For Congress to limit the amount of the FUTURE debt has NOTHING to do with the debt that has been already authorized by law.

You are wrong. The US Government CAN still pay the debt without a raise in the debt ceiling. Further the 14th does not say the Government MUST pay it says they may not deny the debt.

If Obama does this he is usurping the power of Congress and that is Unconstitutional.

Are you a member of the United States Supreme Court?

 

[boedicca]

Obama isn't, and never has been, too interested in anything the Constitution has to say.

He TAUGHT constitutional law. I'm sure he understands if FAR better than Palin, Bachmann, and the so-called tea party purists who are always spouting off.

Are you sure he taught it?

I'd like to see his lecture notes about how the 57 states apportion house seats and electoral votes.

 

[MaggieMae]

I am not a supporter of this current President however I do not see that he can not raise the ceiling by himself. The way I see the Debt Ceiling, it is an approval of credit. No money is actually being spent. The Congress will still approve spending.

 

[Jarhead]

Watching the news right now. Boehner just laid out a plan about 40 minutes ago. Now Obama has decided before the nation tonight at 9 eastern (8 Central time) and aids are saying he will go ahead and bypass congress and invoke the 14th amendment which experts say will increase the crisis because the Constitution states that he can't do it without the lawful approval of Congress. Does this mean that SS checks will not go out for seniors and veterans? We will find out I guess. The word is that he can be impeached if he allows us to default. The sign that hints to Obama stating he will invoke the 14th Amendment was this in his La Raza speech earlier today which is in this link.

Obama: I'd Like 'to Bypass Congress and Change the Rules on My Own' - George E. Condon Jr. - NationalJournal.com

President Obama let his frustration over the stalled debt talks seep into an address on Latino issues on Monday, confessing that he’d like to “bypass Congress and change the laws on my own.”

What does sound like he wants to be? That's right, a dictator. I guess we will find out tonight.

The 14th threat could just be maniacal posturing but I wouldn't be surprised if BO would actually attempt to pull such a stunt...especially if he can't sweep the debt problem under the rug till after 2012 elections...

And yet you people fail to see that the Republicans are USING the debt problem for campaign posturing for 2012.

The debt ceiling has been raised 74 times since 1962. The debt ceiling tripled under Ronald Reagan, and Congress also raised taxes 11 times for him. Republicans voted seven times to raise the debt ceiling for George W. Bush.

was the debt at such a high percentage of GDP any other time?

 

[jillian]

Obama isn't, and never has been, too interested in anything the Constitution has to say.

He TAUGHT constitutional law. I'm sure he understands if FAR better than Palin, Bachmann, and the so-called tea party purists who are always spouting off.

Are you sure he taught it?

yes....


and you wonder why i refer to the extremists as rightwingnuts...

oh...and before you make the same comment yet again... all conservatives are NOT rightwingnuts....

just rightwingnut extremists are.

 

[MaggieMae]

Watching the news right now. Boehner just laid out a plan about 40 minutes ago. Now Obama has decided before the nation tonight at 9 eastern (8 Central time) and aids are saying he will go ahead and bypass congress and invoke the 14th amendment which experts say will increase the crisis because the Constitution states that he can't do it without the lawful approval of Congress. Does this mean that SS checks will not go out for seniors and veterans? We will find out I guess. The word is that he can be impeached if he allows us to default. The sign that hints to Obama stating he will invoke the 14th Amendment was this in his La Raza speech earlier today which is in this link.

Obama: I'd Like 'to Bypass Congress and Change the Rules on My Own' - George E. Condon Jr. - NationalJournal.com

President Obama let his frustration over the stalled debt talks seep into an address on Latino issues on Monday, confessing that he’d like to “bypass Congress and change the laws on my own.”

What does sound like he wants to be? That's right, a dictator. I guess we will find out tonight.

This is such a no-brainer, it's shocking that a once respectable publication like The National Journal would even jump into the ridiciculous fray. The 14th amendment REQUIRES that existing debt obligations be paid.

OPERATIVE WORD: EXISTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Here’s what the amendment actually says:

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned...[It goes on to say]...But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void."

The Republican talking heads continue to assert that raising the debt ceiling gives the president carte blanche permission to continue to borrow more money—without the approval of Congress—in order to keep paying off past loans. That is NOT the purpose, nor is it what would happen with a one-paragraph bill raising the debt ceiling this time around.

Republicans are insisting on making this political by choosing to incorporate future budget propositions into this singular CONSTITUTIONAL requirement. Enough!!!

For Congress to limit the amount of the FUTURE debt has NOTHING to do with the debt that has been already authorized by law.

You might wanna check out section 5 of that amendment.

Indeed, Congress shall have the power to "enforce" the payment of the debt obligation. That would come into play if we had a president who refused to do it (vice versa from the current situation, in other words).

 

[RetiredGySgt]

This is such a no-brainer, it's shocking that a once respectable publication like The National Journal would even jump into the ridiciculous fray. The 14th amendment REQUIRES that existing debt obligations be paid.

OPERATIVE WORD: EXISTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Here’s what the amendment actually says:

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned...[It goes on to say]...But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void."

The Republican talking heads continue to assert that raising the debt ceiling gives the president carte blanche permission to continue to borrow more money—without the approval of Congress—in order to keep paying off past loans. That is NOT the purpose, nor is it what would happen with a one-paragraph bill raising the debt ceiling this time around.

Republicans are insisting on making this political by choosing to incorporate future budget propositions into this singular CONSTITUTIONAL requirement. Enough!!!

For Congress to limit the amount of the FUTURE debt has NOTHING to do with the debt that has been already authorized by law.

You are wrong. The US Government CAN still pay the debt without a raise in the debt ceiling. Further the 14th does not say the Government MUST pay it says they may not deny the debt.

If Obama does this he is usurping the power of Congress and that is Unconstitutional.

Are you a member of the United States Supreme Court?

Did you bother to read the 14th? It leaves to Congress the power to enforce it NOT the President. SO even if it did ( and it does not) say what you claim, it delegates the power BACK to Congress. Once again if Obama attempts to usurp powers granted by the Constitution to the Congress he is in direct violation of the Constitution. AN Impeachable offense that is sustained by his own public actions. If the Senate refused to vote guilty then those so voting would be supporting the violation of the Constitution. Our Government would cease to be a Republic and would no longer be of the people.

 

[Oddball]

He TAUGHT constitutional law. I'm sure he understands if FAR better than Palin, Bachmann, and the so-called tea party purists who are always spouting off.

Are you sure he taught it?

I'd like to see his lecture notes about how the 57 states apportion house seats and electoral votes.

I'm just dying to hear him regale us on the part of the Constitution that talks about "spreadin' the wealth around".

 

[MaggieMae]

I am not a supporter of this current President however I do not see that he can not raise the ceiling by himself. The way I see the Debt Ceiling, it is an approval of credit. No money is actually being spent. The Congress will still approve spending.

Read the powers of the branches of Government. Only Congress has the power to incur debt for the Government.

And they already did, which is what this is all about. What part of that can't you grasp?

 

[Oddball]

I don't think raising the ceiling is incurring debt. I think it is subjective. I get credit card offers in the mail everyday. It's up to me (Congress) to decide to use them.

However the move as I see it is also political suicide for the President.

Oh...I see the point you are making.

Saying "we can borrow more" is not the same as actually borrowing more.

Yoiu are correct.

But what happens when it is time to borrow more?

He blames Congress for not doing it.

...or blames Bush.

 

[boedicca]

I am not a supporter of this current President however I do not see that he can not raise the ceiling by himself. The way I see the Debt Ceiling, it is an approval of credit. No money is actually being spent. The Congress will still approve spending.

Read the powers of the branches of Government. Only Congress has the power to incur debt for the Government.

I don't think raising the ceiling is incurring debt. I think it is subjective. I get credit card offers in the mail everyday. It's up to me (Congress) to decide to use them.

However the move as I see it is also political suicide for the President.

Here's where you are incorrect. The U.S. is in the situation of someone who keeps getting new credit cards to pay the interest on his maxed out ones.

Are we broke yet?

How much money is in the federal bank account? These two graphs, updated daily, tell the story. - By Chris Wilson - Slate Magazine

 

[Jarhead]

He TAUGHT constitutional law. I'm sure he understands if FAR better than Palin, Bachmann, and the so-called tea party purists who are always spouting off.

Are you sure he taught it?

yes....


and you wonder why i refer to the extremists as rightwingnuts...

oh...and before you make the same comment yet again... all conservatives are NOT rightwingnuts....

just rightwingnut extremists are.

and how are you sure he taught it?

And by the way....then according to you, anyone right of center is an extremist.

IU have been reading your posts as of late and I have lost all respect for you. Anyone you disagree with is a wing nut.....it tends to get old

 

[uscitizen]

Watching the news right now. Boehner just laid out a plan about 40 minutes ago. Now Obama has decided before the nation tonight at 9 eastern (8 Central time) and aids are saying he will go ahead and bypass congress and invoke the 14th amendment which experts say will increase the crisis because the Constitution states that he can't do it without the lawful approval of Congress. Does this mean that SS checks will not go out for seniors and veterans? We will find out I guess. The word is that he can be impeached if he allows us to default. The sign that hints to Obama stating he will invoke the 14th Amendment was this in his La Raza speech earlier today which is in this link.

Obama: I'd Like 'to Bypass Congress and Change the Rules on My Own' - George E. Condon Jr. - NationalJournal.com

President Obama let his frustration over the stalled debt talks seep into an address on Latino issues on Monday, confessing that he’d like to “bypass Congress and change the laws on my own.”

What does sound like he wants to be? That's right, a dictator. I guess we will find out tonight.

sounds like the Republicans are getting exactly what they wanted to me.
And escalated fuss with no concern towatrds what is best for America.
Just what is best for republicans.

 

[jillian]

Are you sure he taught it?

I'd like to see his lecture notes about how the 57 states apportion house seats and electoral votes.

I'm just dying to hear him regale us on the part of the Constitution that talks about "spreadin' the wealth around".

and i'm just dying to hear something that actually represents the letter and spirit of the constitution from the obama deranged.

so there ya go.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I am not a supporter of this current President however I do not see that he can not raise the ceiling by himself. The way I see the Debt Ceiling, it is an approval of credit. No money is actually being spent. The Congress will still approve spending.

Read the powers of the branches of Government. Only Congress has the power to incur debt for the Government.

And they already did, which is what this is all about. What part of that can't you grasp?

What part can not you grasp that the 14th provides no power to the President? It regulates enforcement of said Amendment TO THE CONGRESS. Any attempt by the President to usurp powers given by the Constitution to Congress IS High Crimes and misdemeanors. His very actions would prove the case.

 

[shintao]

Watching the news right now. Boehner just laid out a plan about 40 minutes ago. Now Obama has decided before the nation tonight at 9 eastern (8 Central time) and aids are saying he will go ahead and bypass congress and invoke the 14th amendment which experts say will increase the crisis because the Constitution states that he can't do it without the lawful approval of Congress. Does this mean that SS checks will not go out for seniors and veterans? We will find out I guess. The word is that he can be impeached if he allows us to default. The sign that hints to Obama stating he will invoke the 14th Amendment was this in his La Raza speech earlier today which is in this link.

Obama: I'd Like 'to Bypass Congress and Change the Rules on My Own' - George E. Condon Jr. - NationalJournal.com

President Obama let his frustration over the stalled debt talks seep into an address on Latino issues on Monday, confessing that he’d like to “bypass Congress and change the laws on my own.”

What does sound like he wants to be? That's right, a dictator. I guess we will find out tonight.

It has to do with equality, and taking from the poor to give to the rich in their con game is not equality.

Its Due Process Clause prohibits state and local governments from depriving persons of life, liberty, or property without certain steps being taken to ensure fairness. This clause has been used to make most of the Bill of Rights applicable to the states, as well as to recognize substantive and procedural rights.

Its Equal Protection Clause requires each state to provide equal protection under the law to all people within its jurisdiction.

You wouldn't recognize a dictator if your were giving him a bj.

 

[Sallow]

The Senate will never Impeach but this would be a direct violation of the Constitution. The Democrats will stand behind him and VIOLATE the law of the land.

If he does as claimed two things should happen instantly. One the House should vote to Impeach him and let the Senate go on record as supporting the violation of the Constitution. Two the House Speaker should go to the closest Federal Court and file a law suit AGAINST Obama. He should demand that since it is in direct violation of the Constitution that the Supreme Court should be involved.

Um..Reagan and Bush directly violated the Constitution. You guys had no problem with it. None.

Invoking the 14 Amendment would not be a violation.

And I am pretty sure that's not what's going to happen tonight.

Provide any evidence of your claim. As to the President, he has no power to raise the debt limit, that is solely a function of Congress, and specifically must originate in the House. The 14th Amendment provides no Constitutional authority for him to usurp the Power of Congress.

Which claim?

Reagan violated the Constitution at least twice, seriously, with Iran Contra.

Bush violated the Constitution with his order to torture prisoners, suspending Habeas on both foreign and domestic captures and easedropping on private citizens.

And the 14th..

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

That basically covers it. But it's doubtful that he would use it until after August 2nd.

 

[shintao]

Read the powers of the branches of Government. Only Congress has the power to incur debt for the Government.

And they already did, which is what this is all about. What part of that can't you grasp?

What part can not you grasp that the 14th provides no power to the President? It regulates enforcement of said Amendment TO THE CONGRESS. Any attempt by the President to usurp powers given by the Constitution to Congress IS High Crimes and misdemeanors. His very actions would prove the case.

Yes, we need a good impeachment while we are engaged in two wars and the economy teeters on the brink of collapse. Go for it.............LOL!

 

[boedicca]

McConnell told him what to do, since Tea Party moron fanatics are out of control, literally.So it's hardly even Obama's idea. When will these a-holes let the recovery continue?

Ever think that there area some of us who are not real high on THIS economy or THIS government recovering?

Whoa! Anachromism is banned? Did his ignore list break the forum code base?