Breaking: MSNBC : Prez Obama REJECTS ALL MILITARY OPTIONS IN AFGHANISTAN

[Liability]

I think it's time to bring the troops home from Afganistan. Without a strategy of a victory, or an end game, this will end up like Viet Nam, with a lot of our military becoming statistics. I don't want to see that again.....ever.

I agree. If they can't come up with cogent plan to get the entire job done then the best thing to do is get the hell out.

The notion of an "exit strategy" is over-used pablum.

Having a grand strategy in wartime is no guarantee that the strategy will pan out.

The question is not, therefore, whether we have a fucking "exit strategy" of not.

The question is whether we have properly identified whether there is a clear goal or objective in fighting. If there is, and the price is worth it (itself difficult to calculate sometimes), then the decision is obvious. Fight. And when you fight, employ overwhelming force. Fight to win.

If the goal or objective is not considered worthy enough to justify the massive costs (meaning primarily the lives and blood of our fighting men and women), then don't get involved.

But once we are involved, the candy ass half measures and head fakes these politicians engage in make a mockery of the sacrifices our fighting forces make.

We are going to very much regret the election of President Obama and the stupid-ass decisions he is making as President.

Does ANYBODY think that any of the evil ass-suckers in the world who want us fucking DEAD now see us as a legitimate power anymore? Are we a credible opponent? Or are they now even more emboldened to take us on in a manner of their choosing at times of their choosing, confident that in the end we will simply fold?

The law of unintended consequences is going to bite us hard in the future. Real hard. And I am not at all confidant that we have time enough to set our affairs straight and get our shit together before "they" take some really tragic actions directed against us.

The eventual legacy of this President will be written in blood I am afraid. What the hell did we do?

 

[del]

I think it's time to bring the troops home from Afganistan. Without a strategy of a victory, or an end game, this will end up like Viet Nam, with a lot of our military becoming statistics. I don't want to see that again.....ever.

I agree. If they can't come up with cogent plan to get the entire job done then the best thing to do is get the hell out.

The notion of an "exit strategy" is over-used pablum.

Having a grand strategy in wartime is no guarantee that the strategy will pan out.

The question is not, therefore, whether we have a fucking "exit strategy" of not.

The question is whether we have properly identified whether there is a clear goal or objective in fighting. If there is, and the price is worth it (itself difficult to calculate sometimes), then the decision is obvious. Fight. And when you fight, employ overwhelming force. Fight to win.

If the goal or objective is not considered worthy enough to justify the massive costs (meaning primarily the lives and blood of our fighting men and women), then don't get involved.

But once we are involved, the candy ass half measures and head fakes these politicians engage in make a mockery of the sacrifices our fighting forces make.

We are going to very much regret the election of President Obama and the stupid-ass decisions he is making as President.

Does ANYBODY think that any of the evil ass-suckers in the world who want us fucking DEAD now see us as a legitimate power anymore? Are we a credible opponent? Or are they now even more emboldened to take us on in a manner of their choosing at times of their choosing, confident that in the end we will simply fold?

The law of unintended consequences is going to bite us hard in the future. Real hard. And I am not at all confidant that we have time enough to set our affairs straight and get our shit together before "they" take some really tragic actions directed against us.

The eventual legacy of this President will be written in blood I am afraid. What the hell did we do?

that's entirely possible, but he's not the one who decided to go into afghanistan.

why, exactly, are we there?

 

[bodecea]

Obama's a fucktwit.

Easy to say...what is YOUR Afghanistan strategy?

 

[bodecea]

So he rejected a bunch of plans that had no clear end game and exit strategy. Good.

he's supposed to be the one with the strategy.. "Afghanistan is a war worth fighting."

To us it appears to be...to the Afghan government, not so much. How long to you want us carrying their water, Willow?

 

[PixieStix]

Obama knows nothing of war, he is a Soros puppet and his timing stinks.

Why did he wait so long to "reject" the options?

Why is he making "strategic" decisions on war?

Because it is about politics and appeasement of the left?

Let's face it people, obama is an ass in epic proportions.

I talk to people everyday, many of which are liberals, and guess what?; they are livid with this administration, they and all real Americans have had it with the political games with peoples lives.

He may as well let major hasan the terrorist make strategic war decisions

I don't buy what he says. EVER

 

[DiamondDave]

So he rejected a bunch of plans that had no clear end game and exit strategy. Good.

What an asshat. Wh the fuck gets into a war with their eye on how to get out of it.

What diminished intellect you demonstrate, Soggy. One goes into a war know exactly what the goals are, how to accomplish them, dedicate the signficant resources necessary, and have an exit strategy. The last administration failed miserably on how to successfully manage the initial military victories.

And you want to blame this administration for the failures of the previous administration?

No wonder you have no relevance when you post.

You are truly clueless...

The one part you got right was about dedicating the resources necessary... which our government has not done in terms of manpower or with out PC feelings on how we wage war

Yes.. the last administration made errors in the waging of the wars we are in... but Obama is making that look like genius... his so-called plan of doing nothing more in Afghanistan will have serious repercussions and now shows the US as having more of a propensity not to commit to the battle against the Taliban and terrorism... Obama is setting us up for failure... not that I think he is willingly trying to.. but his absolute ignorance is making it happen

 

[bodecea]

I'd like to see us get out of Afghanistan, but I think we would be damning the female Afghanis to hell.

Maybe we could offer them sanctuary and leave the country to the assholes.

Even before this whole debacle, I used to think that we should allow Afghan women and male children under the age of...9 to get out of there and not let anyone else out as best we could. Let the men have their little masculine utopia without the women.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

So he rejected a bunch of plans that had no clear end game and exit strategy. Good.

What an asshat. Wh the fuck gets into a war with their eye on how to get out of it.

What diminished intellect you demonstrate, Soggy. One goes into a war know exactly what the goals are, how to accomplish them, dedicate the signficant resources necessary, and have an exit strategy. The last administration failed miserably on how to successfully manage the initial military victories.

And you want to blame this administration for the failures of the previous administration?

No wonder you have no relevance when you post.

Please.....this isn't "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare" .....

When one goes to war one does have a set of goals, it's called winning....but one must adapt, change and plan new strategies along the way as the big picture changes. Right now the "how" from Obama's grandiose strategy speech in March of 2009 was a dismal failure. Right now our troops have no clear cut strategy, no leadership from the White House and no support outside their military chain of command. An exit strategy, at this point, appears to be a general retreat into the cities and then to leave once the American public is bamboozled into thinking the Taliban has been eradicated. This will result in us having to go back there again.

What exactly was the failure of the last Administration in Afghanistan? Explain in detail.

 

[Maple]

Another day, another Afghanistan strategy.

He's making Jimmy Carter look strong and decisive

so you would have him choose a plan that he didn't like and probably wouldn't work and probably mean more soldiers being sent over there just to make you idiots happy?

He needs to "shit or get off the pot," you don't let our troops sit over there and get shot at and killed everyday while you take your time making up your mind what to do about things. The general on the ground has stated he needs help, that's the only thing Obama should be concerned about right now. It's puts our troops at more risk because they do not have the additional support that they need. There is strength in numbers and our numbers are dwindling while Obama is dithering. He needs to make a decision now.

He is making Jimmy Carter look strong and decisive.

 

[PixieStix]

mdn: a definition

A poster who has no clue to matters military. Move on.

"matters military"???

You mean a president, making decisions on military matters. He should let the Military Generals make the decisions and support them openly

Go away

 

[Sarah G]

I'd like to see us get out of Afghanistan, but I think we would be damning the female Afghanis to hell.

Maybe we could offer them sanctuary and leave the country to the assholes.

Women are really treated that way all over the Middle East, in degrees for sure but how do we find a strategy to turn all of that around? I don't know.

Show them the movie The Burning Bed or arm them.. J/K. Maybe.

 

[Sarah G]

mdn: a definition

A poster who has no clue to matters military. Move on.

"matters military"???

You mean a president, making decisions on military matters. He should let the Military Generals make the decisions and support them openly

Go away

Uh.. No.

 

[bodecea]

What an asshat. Wh the fuck gets into a war with their eye on how to get out of it.

What diminished intellect you demonstrate, Soggy. One goes into a war know exactly what the goals are, how to accomplish them, dedicate the signficant resources necessary, and have an exit strategy. The last administration failed miserably on how to successfully manage the initial military victories.

And you want to blame this administration for the failures of the previous administration?

No wonder you have no relevance when you post.

Please.....this isn't "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare" .....

When one goes to war one does have a set of goals, it's called winning....but one must adapt, change and plan new strategies along the way as the big picture changes. Right now the "how" from Obama's grandiose strategy speech in March of 2009 was a dismal failure. Right now our troops have no clear cut strategy, no leadership from the White House and no support outside their military chain of command. An exit strategy, at this point, appears to be a general retreat into the cities and then to leave once the American public is bamboozled into thinking the Taliban has been eradicated. This will result in us having to go back there again.

What exactly was the failure of the last Administration in Afghanistan? Explain in detail.

Um, pulling the majority of the troops out to Iraq when we were very close to getting Osama at Tora Bora?

 

[bodecea]

I'd like to see us get out of Afghanistan, but I think we would be damning the female Afghanis to hell.

Maybe we could offer them sanctuary and leave the country to the assholes.

Women are really treated that way all over the Middle East, in degrees for sure but how do we find a strategy to turn all of that around? I don't know.

Show them the movie The Burning Bed or arm them.. J/K. Maybe.

Arming them is an excellent idea...

 

[Navy1960]

Network Centric Warfare (NCW) is a key component of DOD planning for
transformation of the military. NCW relies on computer processing power and
networked communications technology to provide a shared awareness of the battle
space for U.S. forces. Proponents say that a shared awareness increases synergy for
command and control, resulting in superior decision-making, and the ability to
coordinate complex military operations over long distances for an overwhelming
war-fighting advantage. NCW technology saw limited deployment in Afghanistan
and, more recently, increased deployment in Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). Several
DOD key programs are now underway for deployment throughout all services.
Congress may be concerned with oversight of the DOD organization and the
individual services as they transform through NCW programs that are intended to
promote a management style and culture with joint objectives. Oversight may
involve a review of service efforts to improve interoperability of computer and
communications systems, and may also involve questions from some observers about
whether DOD has given adequate attention to possible unintended outcomes resulting
from over-reliance on high technology. Updates may also be required on emerging
threats that may be directed against increasingly complex military equipment.
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/33858.pdf

Let me see if I can explain this somewhat, the US Military doctrine as of now (see above) combines that with the concept of lighter, lethal, and more mobile rather than what you would have seen in the Gulf War with 500,000 troops. DoD believes that the objectives that are needed can be be achieved on the battlespace with less troops and less damage with more application of technology. This is only opinion as I am an old aviator and don't happen to agree with this Doctrine as it applies to Afghanistan. Afghanistan is NOT Iraq both in terms of who you are fighting, and the terrain you have to fight in. The very fact that you have to cover large area's and go to places that fixed wing, and rotary wing aircraft cannot go contradicts the current Doctrine and calls for more of a combination of the old Doctirne of ALB and this one. In other words more boots on the ground to interact with the local population. If we continue to fight this war on the cheap, or using the current doctine of light and lethal with technology application then we place US Forces in jeopardy and without the support from a command structure willing to make the commitment to battle then it's best to withdraw from the battlespace. The US Military should be a Hammer, it force should be applied so there is no doubt as to the outcome, with lethal results. Let the world find someone else willing to be a small police force as the US Military is not a police force.

 

[del]

What an asshat. Wh the fuck gets into a war with their eye on how to get out of it.

What diminished intellect you demonstrate, Soggy. One goes into a war know exactly what the goals are, how to accomplish them, dedicate the signficant resources necessary, and have an exit strategy. The last administration failed miserably on how to successfully manage the initial military victories.

And you want to blame this administration for the failures of the previous administration?

No wonder you have no relevance when you post.

Please.....this isn't "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare" .....

When one goes to war one does have a set of goals, it's called winning....but one must adapt, change and plan new strategies along the way as the big picture changes. Right now the "how" from Obama's grandiose strategy speech in March of 2009 was a dismal failure. Right now our troops have no clear cut strategy, no leadership from the White House and no support outside their military chain of command. An exit strategy, at this point, appears to be a general retreat into the cities and then to leave once the American public is bamboozled into thinking the Taliban has been eradicated. This will result in us having to go back there again.

What exactly was the failure of the last Administration in Afghanistan? Explain in detail.

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

any more blindingly stupid questions you'd like to pose?

 

[Missourian]

This thread makes me sick to my stomach.

Obama is worthless...and a liar and a coward.

The only good thing I can say about Obama is he has done more to salvage the Bush legacy than the staunchest of Bush supporters...at least that's something.

 

[Polk]

It's not a weakness to base your tactics off of the facts on the ground. As for your definition of victory, that's fine if you want to define things that way, but it gets to the heart of the issue. What you spelled out is a goal that can never be accomplished with force. The military is there to flatten enemy forces. It can't construct civil society. It can't ensure that the individual Afghan tribes will rally around a central government.

Obviously you are not a student of history or you wouldn't make such idiotic claims. All one has to do is look to the Allied victories over Germany and Japan.
Marshall plan?
General MacArthur WROTE the Japanese constitution.

Seems to me those 2 countries are quite "civil" now doesn't it?

That ONLY works if you fight TOTAL WAR.

The US has not fought a total war since WWII, ergo it hasn't won one since then.

Two things.
1. You don't hit a fly with a sledgehammer.
2. Even if we fought in that manner, there is no reason to assume it would result in Afghanistan developing more stable institutions.

 

[Sarah G]

I'd like to see us get out of Afghanistan, but I think we would be damning the female Afghanis to hell.

Maybe we could offer them sanctuary and leave the country to the assholes.

Women are really treated that way all over the Middle East, in degrees for sure but how do we find a strategy to turn all of that around? I don't know.

Show them the movie The Burning Bed or arm them.. J/K. Maybe.

Arming them is an excellent idea...

You'd have to change the mindset as well. Not easy after being the woman suffering abuse for years and years. They've already taken all power away from women.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

What diminished intellect you demonstrate, Soggy. One goes into a war know exactly what the goals are, how to accomplish them, dedicate the signficant resources necessary, and have an exit strategy. The last administration failed miserably on how to successfully manage the initial military victories.

And you want to blame this administration for the failures of the previous administration?

No wonder you have no relevance when you post.

Please.....this isn't "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare" .....

When one goes to war one does have a set of goals, it's called winning....but one must adapt, change and plan new strategies along the way as the big picture changes. Right now the "how" from Obama's grandiose strategy speech in March of 2009 was a dismal failure. Right now our troops have no clear cut strategy, no leadership from the White House and no support outside their military chain of command. An exit strategy, at this point, appears to be a general retreat into the cities and then to leave once the American public is bamboozled into thinking the Taliban has been eradicated. This will result in us having to go back there again.

What exactly was the failure of the last Administration in Afghanistan? Explain in detail.

Um, pulling the majority of the troops out to Iraq when we were very close to getting Osama at Tora Bora?

Ummmmm...I don't know what planet you were on but the Battle of Tora Bora took place in December of 2001...a LONG time before we ever went into Iraq.