'Bout 37 hours left.. Time to see how many folks are brain-washed

[Jimmyeatworld]

fair point jimmy, that IS moores agenda, but at the same time creating fear in the general population is a government agenda. in my opinion terrorists are simply the new soviets. people rally around authority figues in times of danger and uncertainity.

Creating fear is an interesting topic. The Democrats keep saying the President is trying to scare everyone and running on a platform of fear. Terrorism is not a product of propaganda, it's real. We can't change that, and it certainly is soemthing that needs to be addressed. Talking about the fact that there are terrorists that want to kill Americans just because they are Americans is not trying to strike fear in people, it's talking about facts.

Now, the look at what comes from the Democrats. They are trying to strike fear in people, just in a different way. Trying to scare seniors or people near retirement age into thinking they will have their social security taken away. Trying to scare people into believing the draft will be reinstated with a Bush re-election, when the only ones to bring up a draft are the Democrats.

Fear often stems from conspiracy. If fear stems from the facts that are at hand, that's not because of spin or propaganda, that comes from that person.

 

[Redz]

the propensity for it........ Lesseeeee Libs hate capitalism..Capitalism is the economic basis for the United States....Libs believe in "proportional representation" just as many of the Socialist "democracies" of Europe.... The winner doesn't really win,,,there is no loser......Resulting in an indeterminate electorate... Understand now? Further elucidation required?

YES!
libs don't hate capitalism, kerrys economic policies are essentially the same as bushs. like politics in england the main parties all same economic policies. capitalism is major factor in us economy, however its not pure capitalism as goverment plays big role, trade barriers, defence industry medicare etc..
ireland where im from uses proportional representation..leads to weak governmet, but crucially more representive of the voice of the people.
Do you think its possible to have liberal views in terms of personal life eg: gay marrige, abortion etc and have capitalist economic views? cos i do
i don't anyones all liberal or all conservative, we are all a mixture of different beliefs in different areas

 

[theim]

Of couse Islamists are trying to kill us. How is that fearmongering? It's true!

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

emotive statement..How do you know they are trying to kill you? your government or media tells you.
yes 9/11 i know,but one horrible terrorist attack does not mean the muslim world is trying to kill you or your family. and as for being subjegated by a religious theocracy. well in many ways the lines between religion and state are being blurred in america, to appeal to the large christan community!. how is it different to a muslim theocracy except that we grew up as christians in the west

First, it's been more than one attack. Only one of the magnitude of 9/11, but more than one. Maybe you should take a look at the latest tape from Osama Bin Laden where he says he wants to kill a lot of us, or maybe look at the countless number of times he and other terrorists have threatened to make blood run in our streets. The fact that terrorists want to kill us doesn't come from the government and only comes from the media as they show the tapes and report what terrorists have done and said.

I'll also add that terrorists are hiding behind the muslim religion. I don't believe a true muslim supports terrorists acts in any way.

 

[Redz]

Why is it wrong to fear someone who:

1) Has been attacking your country for years and randomly killing innocents.

2) Committed 9/11 - killing 3,000 innocentso n our home soil and impacting the economy by hundreds of billions of dollars

3) Openly threatens to commit an act which will dwarf 9/11?

nothing at all, its understandable, but over here in ireland we get the impression that this hurt inflicted on your country has been used and manipulated by politicans for their own agendas. for example the linking of Iraq to 9/11 by goverment.

 

[phadras]

YES!
libs don't hate capitalism, kerrys economic policies are essentially the same as bushs. like politics in england the main parties all same economic policies. capitalism is major factor in us economy, however its not pure capitalism as goverment plays big role, trade barriers, defence industry medicare etc..
ireland where im from uses proportional representation..leads to weak governmet, but crucially more representive of the voice of the people.
Do you think its possible to have liberal views in terms of personal life eg: gay marrige, abortion etc and have capitalist economic views? cos i do
i don't anyones all liberal or all conservative, we are all a mixture of different beliefs in different areas

.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

YES!
libs don't hate capitalism, kerrys economic policies are essentially the same as bushs. like politics in england the main parties all same economic policies. capitalism is major factor in us economy, however its not pure capitalism as goverment plays big role, trade barriers, defence industry medicare etc..
ireland where im from uses proportional representation..leads to weak governmet, but crucially more representive of the voice of the people.
Do you think its possible to have liberal views in terms of personal life eg: gay marrige, abortion etc and have capitalist economic views? cos i do
i don't anyones all liberal or all conservative, we are all a mixture of different beliefs in different areas

What Kerry is saying NOW lines up somewhat with President Bush because he is trying to move himself to the middle to appeal to more voters. His history and his opinions less than a year ago point to something very different.

Having liberal views like supporting gay marriage, pro-choice, etc. and capitalist economic views is possible. It's essentially a Libertarian.

 

[Redz]

Of couse Islamists are trying to kill us. How is that fearmongering? It's true!

it is true that some want to kill you, but their number, strenght and real support is not known. bin ladens latest tape seemed to say leave us alone and we will leave you alone, reasonable point from an undoubted psycotic murderer

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

nothing at all, its understandable, but over here in ireland we get the impression that this hurt inflicted on your country has been used and manipulated by politicans for their own agendas. for example the linking of Iraq to 9/11 by goverment.

Saddam was linked to the terrorists behind the 9/11 attack, though nothing has surfaced directly linking him to that attack. President Bush never said anything different. Every time something is said about the fact that there was a link between Saddam and the terrorists, certain people try to make it sound like he is linking Saddam to 9/11. He has made it quite clear there is no evidense that Saddam was directly related to 9/11.

 

[Flying Duck]

nothing at all, its understandable, but over here in ireland we get the impression that this hurt inflicted on your country has been used and manipulated by politicans for their own agendas. for example the linking of Iraq to 9/11 by goverment.

Iraq IS linked to 9/11. It is the war on TERROR, not the war on Al Queda. Saddam was an outspoken enemy of the US and complcit with numerous terrorists and terrorist organization. ONE of the many reasons for taking out Saddam was to limit the possiblity that he would share WMD's or WMD technology with anti-US terrorists. Get it?

The difference is a pre-9/11 mindset vs. a post 9/11 mindset. Some dumb ole Americans want to make sure 9/11 does not happen again - or at least do our best to prevent it.

 

[Redz]

It's essentially a Libertarian.

i thought bush was going to be libertarian at the start of his rule, but things like the patriot act don't seem to fit with that image. even the name of the act is pure propaganda. in addition his big defcit spending is not exactly traditional conservative economic policy.
kerrys economic policy will be the same as clintons, and that was pretty good for america

 

[theim]

And Kerry's economic plans are polar opposites of Bush's

Bush: Lower taxes on everyone who pays taxes. Since rich people pay more taxes, they will save more money. Since a poor person pays no taxes, they won't save any money. This frees up money for business and consumers to buy things, thereby stimulating the economy, creating jobs, etc. A fairly simple forumla. Slow outsourcing by making America a better place to do business than India with low taxes.

Kerry: Lower taxes on Middle/Lower Classes. Raise Taxes on Upper Class. Income Redistribution (PC talk for Socialism). This will raise taxes on small businesses which pay taxes on the personal income tax level, which will...take more of their money and give it to poor people? Will supposedly stop outsourcing by raising taxes on outsourcing companies and at the same time raising minimum wage for all companies.

That is why Kerry's plan is such a joke. Let's say I'm company X. It is expensive to do business in the USA. So I lay off some American workers, and open up an office in Japan. Kerry is elected. Uh, oh, if I don't stop outsourcing my taxes will be raised. But if I stay in America the minimum wage goes up. Solution?

Best case scenario: I stop outsourcing to Japan, and deal with the increased cost of business in America.

More Likely Scenario: Due to increased cost of keeping employees ($7/hr) , I lay off a bunch of American workers. To get the taxes off my ass, I also quit outsourcing to Japan. In this day and age, computers are great labor-saving devices, so I can deal with the reduced employment roster. All my Japanese workers lose their jobs. In retaliation, the Japanese government pressures Toyota, Sony, etc. to close some of their plants/offices in America. Which they do, causing more Americans to lose their jobs.

Economic Protectionism is a baaaad idea.

 

[theim]

i thought bush was going to be libertarian at the start of his rule, but things like the patriot act don't seem to fit with that image. even the name of the act is pure propaganda. in addition his big defcit spending is not exactly traditional conservative economic policy.
kerrys economic policy will be the same as clintons, and that was pretty good for america

Clinton's economic policy was similar to that of the 20's in respect to the fact that the economic boom was an illusion. The difference is that when the bubble burst in '00/01, we only had a nice little recession, instead of a depression.

 

[Redz]

Saddam was linked to the terrorists behind the 9/11 attack, though nothing has surfaced directly linking him to that attack. President Bush never said anything different.

exactly ever word out of a modern politicans mouth is carefully scripted, so they never really say anything. the fact that so many americans believe in the iraq 9/11 link is proof of their skills at manipulation

 

[UsaPride]

bin ladens latest tape seemed to say leave us alone and we will leave you alone, reasonable point from an undoubted psycotic murderer

Reasonable point? For us to leave him alone? HE attacked US!! Why in the hell should we leave him alone?

 

[theim]

it is true that some want to kill you, but their number, strenght and real support is not known. bin ladens latest tape seemed to say leave us alone and we will leave you alone, reasonable point from an undoubted psycotic murderer

That is the prime difference between the US and Old Europe. You would prefer just to let well enough alone and say (whiny voice) "If we would stop butting into other people's business they wouldn't wanna kill us!"

Well that's what Clinton tried. And it failed. A good theory, to be sure. But a failed one. It got us more terror attacks in a single decade then ever before, culminating in 9/11. The "leave us alone and we will leave you alone" theory proved its uselessness. 9/11 was the last straw. We are not gonna take that shit anymore, and we're gonna kick some ass. If Europe disagrees, fine, but stay the hell out of our way; because neither the them, the UN, nor pissant little countries like Belgium and France (who are currently trying to justify their own worthless existance) are going to stop us from trying to defend ourselves.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

exactly ever word out of a modern politicans mouth is carefully scripted, so they never really say anything. the fact that so many americans believe in the iraq 9/11 link is proof of their skills at manipulation

Sometimes people hear what they want to hear, especially in an election year.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3118262.stm
"We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the 11 September attacks," Mr Bush told reporters as he met members of Congress on energy legislation.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/140133_bushiraq18.html
White House spokesman Scott McClellan reiterated to reporters yesterday that the administration never directly linked Saddam to the Sept. 11 strikes.
"If you're talking specifically about the September 11th attacks, we never made that claim," McClellan said. "We do know that there is a long history of Saddam Hussein and his regime and ties to terrorism, including al-Qaida."



http://www.jerusalemites.org/news/english/sept2003/18a.htm

There's no question that Saddam Hussein had al-Qaida ties," the president said. But he also said, "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th."



There are others. I don't think it's fair to hold the Bush administration responsible because there are so many people out there that either don't a pay attention or hear what they want to hear.

 

[Redz]

Iraq IS linked to 9/11. It is the war on TERROR, not the war on Al Queda. Saddam was an outspoken enemy of the US and complcit with numerous terrorists and terrorist organization. ONE of the many reasons for taking out Saddam was to limit the possiblity that he would share WMD's or WMD technology with anti-US terrorists. Get it?

what WMD the ones your own survey group could't find?
no proven links with 9/11
many of the reasons for taking out saddam were based on possibilities, not realities. in my opinion war should always be based on realities.
yes its fair that you try to defend your nation, just be careful how you do it, curtailing civil liberties and invading soverign nations preemptively is not the best way to protect your country in my opinion, maybe solving the palestinian issue and withdrawing your troops from the middle east would help

 

[Redz]

good reply jimmy, lots of evidence etc.. but from my perpective the administration encouraged this blurring of the lines, and this helped them sell their war to american people, even thought Iraq was about other things, and no not just oil. i think we are both firmly stuck in our positions but it still good to exchange views

 

[theim]

Giving the terrorist PLO their own country and removing our troops from the terrorist hotbed of the world. Genius! Why didn't we think of that? :duh3: