Both sides won’t like my take on policing.

[progressive hunter]

OP, who was "Stop & Frisk" targetted to?

Which poor communities you think are policed more, white or black ones?

Answer those if you don't mind.

the answer to that falls under to pretext of the OP,,,

 

[sakinago]

OP, who was "Stop & Frisk" targetted to?

Which poor communities you think are policed more, white or black ones?

Answer those if you don't mind.

There is so much more then that. All abuses from recent decades must be included in this reform package. Or there will be people who have not had justice with lingering thoughts of those abuses and what can go with it from some. All police/corrections/judicial fiefdoms members that were involved need to have justice imposed on them with financial rewards to the citizens abused by their egos and power. That includes the fiefdom using the private businesses also to mess with any citizen.

That’s unenforceable. Like I already stated, white people are getting murked by police more on average than black people are. You cannot have collective guilt. Black people are disproportionately committing more crimes than whites on average. There should be ZERO collective guilt established there on behalf of black people. It’s WRONG to do. It’s also WRONG to do to police. What we’ve been seeing with police is the natural progression of governments at all levels. They naturally seek power. It hasn’t just been the local or state police militarizing. The fucking department of education has SWAT teams. Same with the IRS. Bureau of Land Management. Basically it’s hard to name a federal department that doesn’t have its own tactical SWAT team they spent millions of taxpayer dollars on. They collect power in different ways than just guns too. Data collection by intelligence services. A new bill just got passed dealing with this.

 

[MarcATL]

the answer to that falls under to pretext of the OP,,,

Which is...?

 

[progressive hunter]

the answer to that falls under to pretext of the OP,,,

Which is...?

cops are out of control and think they can do as they please,,,

 

[MarcATL]

cops are out of control and think they can do as they please,,,

And you agree w/this assessment?

 

[progressive hunter]

cops are out of control and think they can do as they please,,,

And you agree w/this assessment?

I agree its happening and is why I stand against it,,,

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

The issues we see today are NOT a race problem. They are a policing problem. Yes there IS a policing problem. I’ve been on this train long before Micheal Brown made it in the news. The stats simply don’t point to it being a race problem. Now, stick with me black folk. YES more black people per capita are killed by police than white people, despite only making up 13% of the population. What you have to take into account is the amount of police interactions each race is having. Around 20% of black men are felons. The number for whites is much lower. Not an indictment of race, has more to do with social status than anything. Low income white neighborhoods are basically indistinguishable from low income black neighborhoods, outside of the drugs used and choice of music. To become a felon means some sort of interaction with law enforcement. If you want to debate why that is, take it up in a different thread. Point of this is that when amount of police interaction are taken into consideration, whites are killed more often than blacks. Blacks on the other hand are the ones feeling the effects more so than whites in general.

Let’s use philando Castile as a case study. Yes he’s black, but there’s also a similar case of the white kid in Nevada sobbing on his knees begging the police not to shoot him, reaches to pull his pants up (that he already stated we’re falling down) and gets smoked. I digress. Philandos case recap: he’s pulled over, correctly tells the officer that he is carrying, and that he has his carrier permit. Officer tells him not to reach, Philando says something to the effect of I’m just grabbing my wallet, and then gets smoked. Officers in both cases were found to be completely within their rights to shoot. There lies your problem. Both officers were wrong to do so. But both officers were trained to do so. It’s ridiculous to me that police have a lower standard of use of lethal force than our soldiers do in literal war zones. Movies like lethal weapon have cops in gunfights on a daily basis. Policing overall is a fairly safe job. More dangerous than most, but other jobs like construction and garbage collection are more dangerous. Truth is that far more cops die when they’re hit by a car after pulling someone over than the apocalypse scenario they keep citing of getting shot by the driver they just pulled over. Yes that still happens, it’s tragic, but also extremely rare. Truth is what’s really killing cops is traffic accidents and diabetes (they are among the most overweight professions out there). Yet the amount of SWAT teams being created, tactical weaponry and vehicles being issued, and the no knock warrants has been exploding. This explosion was happening despite the already quickly declining crime rates.

So, what are solutions. Obviously there needs to be training reform. SOME departments are trained that if you draw your weapon, that is more often than not a failure because the police in the situation failed to de-escalate the situation. Most of the people they’re smoking are people with mental disabilities. Plenty are violent criminals, yes. Now I want cops to be armed and have every ability to defend themselves. But I also want there to be clear rules for use of lethal force. Clear rules for how they detain and subdue someone. We also need to get rid of police unions. Anytime a public sector union negotiates, THEY ARE NEGOTIATING AGAINST THE PUBLIC TAXPAYER. That goes for the rules they advocate, as well as the money they get. Some examples of some of those rules. The biggest is the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights (LEBOR). Basically many states have the LEBOR that’s states that police have to be treated with kid gloves when being investigated. This is immoral. Plain and simple. They have one system of justice, we have another. Another one that’s been mentioned a lot, that concerns me less, is the qualified immunity, which deals with civil suits. Still bullshit though.

More crime and murders are committed by black per capita, but you left that part out...

 

[anynameyouwish]

the answer to that falls under to pretext of the OP,,,

Which is...?

cops are out of control and think they can do as they please,,,

"cops are out of control and think they can do as they please"

SOME cops

or...perhaps...(too) MANY....

But I would contend that MOST cops actually abide by their oath!?

at least I like to think this is true.

 

[sakinago]

The issues we see today are NOT a race problem. They are a policing problem. Yes there IS a policing problem. I’ve been on this train long before Micheal Brown made it in the news. The stats simply don’t point to it being a race problem. Now, stick with me black folk. YES more black people per capita are killed by police than white people, despite only making up 13% of the population. What you have to take into account is the amount of police interactions each race is having. Around 20% of black men are felons. The number for whites is much lower. Not an indictment of race, has more to do with social status than anything. Low income white neighborhoods are basically indistinguishable from low income black neighborhoods, outside of the drugs used and choice of music. To become a felon means some sort of interaction with law enforcement. If you want to debate why that is, take it up in a different thread. Point of this is that when amount of police interaction are taken into consideration, whites are killed more often than blacks. Blacks on the other hand are the ones feeling the effects more so than whites in general.

Let’s use philando Castile as a case study. Yes he’s black, but there’s also a similar case of the white kid in Nevada sobbing on his knees begging the police not to shoot him, reaches to pull his pants up (that he already stated we’re falling down) and gets smoked. I digress. Philandos case recap: he’s pulled over, correctly tells the officer that he is carrying, and that he has his carrier permit. Officer tells him not to reach, Philando says something to the effect of I’m just grabbing my wallet, and then gets smoked. Officers in both cases were found to be completely within their rights to shoot. There lies your problem. Both officers were wrong to do so. But both officers were trained to do so. It’s ridiculous to me that police have a lower standard of use of lethal force than our soldiers do in literal war zones. Movies like lethal weapon have cops in gunfights on a daily basis. Policing overall is a fairly safe job. More dangerous than most, but other jobs like construction and garbage collection are more dangerous. Truth is that far more cops die when they’re hit by a car after pulling someone over than the apocalypse scenario they keep citing of getting shot by the driver they just pulled over. Yes that still happens, it’s tragic, but also extremely rare. Truth is what’s really killing cops is traffic accidents and diabetes (they are among the most overweight professions out there). Yet the amount of SWAT teams being created, tactical weaponry and vehicles being issued, and the no knock warrants has been exploding. This explosion was happening despite the already quickly declining crime rates.

So, what are solutions. Obviously there needs to be training reform. SOME departments are trained that if you draw your weapon, that is more often than not a failure because the police in the situation failed to de-escalate the situation. Most of the people they’re smoking are people with mental disabilities. Plenty are violent criminals, yes. Now I want cops to be armed and have every ability to defend themselves. But I also want there to be clear rules for use of lethal force. Clear rules for how they detain and subdue someone. We also need to get rid of police unions. Anytime a public sector union negotiates, THEY ARE NEGOTIATING AGAINST THE PUBLIC TAXPAYER. That goes for the rules they advocate, as well as the money they get. Some examples of some of those rules. The biggest is the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights (LEBOR). Basically many states have the LEBOR that’s states that police have to be treated with kid gloves when being investigated. This is immoral. Plain and simple. They have one system of justice, we have another. Another one that’s been mentioned a lot, that concerns me less, is the qualified immunity, which deals with civil suits. Still bullshit though.

I can agree with a lot of what you said but I didnt see the need to go off on a tangent on how cops die. Thats totally irrelevant to the discussion.

I felt it was necessary. I still hear about how “dangerous” policing is. Rural counties with nothing but Amish people are getting vehicles used in Iraq made to withstand IED blasts. It’s absurd how they are using the war on drugs to justify becoming a paramilitary force. And in areas where there’s a murder once every 5 years. I’m fine with having SWAT teams in cities and areas of high crime, but when your most frequent 911 call is because some cows escaped and are blocking the road, that police department does not need a tank.

The truth is criminals don’t kill cops anymore. It’s just not worth it to them. You’re better off being a cop in a high crime area than a civilian. But I keep hearing how dangerous it is to be cop. It’s because of these fucking cop shows and movies. They don’t reflect reality, yet it’s what they keep putting on tv, because no one wants to watch the episode where the cop has to direct traffic in front of the road repair crew. People want to see them decked out in their SWAT gear taking down bad guys.

 

[gipper]

Yes. We need to focus on the ACTUAL problem. That is police brutality. Not race.
Police brutality comes in all shapes, sizes and colors.

I've never been "brutalized" by the police. But then again, except for two speeding infractions I've never broken any laws.

So?

 

[sakinago]

The issues we see today are NOT a race problem. They are a policing problem. Yes there IS a policing problem. I’ve been on this train long before Micheal Brown made it in the news. The stats simply don’t point to it being a race problem. Now, stick with me black folk. YES more black people per capita are killed by police than white people, despite only making up 13% of the population. What you have to take into account is the amount of police interactions each race is having. Around 20% of black men are felons. The number for whites is much lower. Not an indictment of race, has more to do with social status than anything. Low income white neighborhoods are basically indistinguishable from low income black neighborhoods, outside of the drugs used and choice of music. To become a felon means some sort of interaction with law enforcement. If you want to debate why that is, take it up in a different thread. Point of this is that when amount of police interaction are taken into consideration, whites are killed more often than blacks. Blacks on the other hand are the ones feeling the effects more so than whites in general.

Let’s use philando Castile as a case study. Yes he’s black, but there’s also a similar case of the white kid in Nevada sobbing on his knees begging the police not to shoot him, reaches to pull his pants up (that he already stated we’re falling down) and gets smoked. I digress. Philandos case recap: he’s pulled over, correctly tells the officer that he is carrying, and that he has his carrier permit. Officer tells him not to reach, Philando says something to the effect of I’m just grabbing my wallet, and then gets smoked. Officers in both cases were found to be completely within their rights to shoot. There lies your problem. Both officers were wrong to do so. But both officers were trained to do so. It’s ridiculous to me that police have a lower standard of use of lethal force than our soldiers do in literal war zones. Movies like lethal weapon have cops in gunfights on a daily basis. Policing overall is a fairly safe job. More dangerous than most, but other jobs like construction and garbage collection are more dangerous. Truth is that far more cops die when they’re hit by a car after pulling someone over than the apocalypse scenario they keep citing of getting shot by the driver they just pulled over. Yes that still happens, it’s tragic, but also extremely rare. Truth is what’s really killing cops is traffic accidents and diabetes (they are among the most overweight professions out there). Yet the amount of SWAT teams being created, tactical weaponry and vehicles being issued, and the no knock warrants has been exploding. This explosion was happening despite the already quickly declining crime rates.

So, what are solutions. Obviously there needs to be training reform. SOME departments are trained that if you draw your weapon, that is more often than not a failure because the police in the situation failed to de-escalate the situation. Most of the people they’re smoking are people with mental disabilities. Plenty are violent criminals, yes. Now I want cops to be armed and have every ability to defend themselves. But I also want there to be clear rules for use of lethal force. Clear rules for how they detain and subdue someone. We also need to get rid of police unions. Anytime a public sector union negotiates, THEY ARE NEGOTIATING AGAINST THE PUBLIC TAXPAYER. That goes for the rules they advocate, as well as the money they get. Some examples of some of those rules. The biggest is the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights (LEBOR). Basically many states have the LEBOR that’s states that police have to be treated with kid gloves when being investigated. This is immoral. Plain and simple. They have one system of justice, we have another. Another one that’s been mentioned a lot, that concerns me less, is the qualified immunity, which deals with civil suits. Still bullshit though.

More crime and murders are committed by black per capita, but you left that part out...

No I didn’t...

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The issues we see today are NOT a race problem. They are a policing problem. Yes there IS a policing problem. I’ve been on this train long before Micheal Brown made it in the news. The stats simply don’t point to it being a race problem. Now, stick with me black folk. YES more black people per capita are killed by police than white people, despite only making up 13% of the population. What you have to take into account is the amount of police interactions each race is having. Around 20% of black men are felons. The number for whites is much lower. Not an indictment of race, has more to do with social status than anything. Low income white neighborhoods are basically indistinguishable from low income black neighborhoods, outside of the drugs used and choice of music. To become a felon means some sort of interaction with law enforcement. If you want to debate why that is, take it up in a different thread. Point of this is that when amount of police interaction are taken into consideration, whites are killed more often than blacks. Blacks on the other hand are the ones feeling the effects more so than whites in general.

Let’s use philando Castile as a case study. Yes he’s black, but there’s also a similar case of the white kid in Nevada sobbing on his knees begging the police not to shoot him, reaches to pull his pants up (that he already stated we’re falling down) and gets smoked. I digress. Philandos case recap: he’s pulled over, correctly tells the officer that he is carrying, and that he has his carrier permit. Officer tells him not to reach, Philando says something to the effect of I’m just grabbing my wallet, and then gets smoked. Officers in both cases were found to be completely within their rights to shoot. There lies your problem. Both officers were wrong to do so. But both officers were trained to do so. It’s ridiculous to me that police have a lower standard of use of lethal force than our soldiers do in literal war zones. Movies like lethal weapon have cops in gunfights on a daily basis. Policing overall is a fairly safe job. More dangerous than most, but other jobs like construction and garbage collection are more dangerous. Truth is that far more cops die when they’re hit by a car after pulling someone over than the apocalypse scenario they keep citing of getting shot by the driver they just pulled over. Yes that still happens, it’s tragic, but also extremely rare. Truth is what’s really killing cops is traffic accidents and diabetes (they are among the most overweight professions out there). Yet the amount of SWAT teams being created, tactical weaponry and vehicles being issued, and the no knock warrants has been exploding. This explosion was happening despite the already quickly declining crime rates.

So, what are solutions. Obviously there needs to be training reform. SOME departments are trained that if you draw your weapon, that is more often than not a failure because the police in the situation failed to de-escalate the situation. Most of the people they’re smoking are people with mental disabilities. Plenty are violent criminals, yes. Now I want cops to be armed and have every ability to defend themselves. But I also want there to be clear rules for use of lethal force. Clear rules for how they detain and subdue someone. We also need to get rid of police unions. Anytime a public sector union negotiates, THEY ARE NEGOTIATING AGAINST THE PUBLIC TAXPAYER. That goes for the rules they advocate, as well as the money they get. Some examples of some of those rules. The biggest is the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights (LEBOR). Basically many states have the LEBOR that’s states that police have to be treated with kid gloves when being investigated. This is immoral. Plain and simple. They have one system of justice, we have another. Another one that’s been mentioned a lot, that concerns me less, is the qualified immunity, which deals with civil suits. Still bullshit though.

I can agree with a lot of what you said but I didnt see the need to go off on a tangent on how cops die. Thats totally irrelevant to the discussion.

I felt it was necessary. I still hear about how “dangerous” policing is. Rural counties with nothing but Amish people are getting vehicles used in Iraq made to withstand IED blasts. It’s absurd how they are using the war on drugs to justify becoming a paramilitary force. And in areas where there’s a murder once every 5 years. I’m fine with having SWAT teams in cities and areas of high crime, but when your most frequent 911 call is because some cows escaped and are blocking the road, that police department does not need a tank.

The truth is criminals don’t kill cops anymore. It’s just not worth it to them. You’re better off being a cop in a high crime area than a civilian. But I keep hearing how dangerous it is to be cop. It’s because of these fucking cop shows and movies. They don’t reflect reality, yet it’s what they keep putting on tv, because no one wants to watch the episode where the cop has to direct traffic in front of the road repair crew. People want to see them decked out in their SWAT gear taking down bad guys.

Oh no doubt the vast majority of small towns dont need surplus armored personnel carriers ,lets not call them tanks thats pure hyperbole,unless they're on our southern border.

It has gotten more dangerous to be a cop over the last say ten years.
Ambushes have become more common these days than ever before.
People are just walking up to cops and shooting them in the head these days.

 

[OnePercenter]

There is no policing problem and no systematic racism of systematic systems problem.

There is a children crying for free shit problem.

"Free shit" crosses all realms of economics in the US. The fact is Corporate America and the wealthy gain more from "free shit" than anyone else. That being said, the supposed systematic racism problem isn't a fight for equality, it's a fight for supremacy.

 

[OnePercenter]

Yes. We need to focus on the ACTUAL problem. That is police brutality. Not race.
Police brutality comes in all shapes, sizes and colors.

I've never been "brutalized" by the police. But then again, except for two speeding infractions I've never broken any laws.

So?

Really? Your reading comprehension sub-par. What I said is that criminals are brutalized by the police, as it should be.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The issues we see today are NOT a race problem. They are a policing problem. Yes there IS a policing problem. I’ve been on this train long before Micheal Brown made it in the news. The stats simply don’t point to it being a race problem. Now, stick with me black folk. YES more black people per capita are killed by police than white people, despite only making up 13% of the population. What you have to take into account is the amount of police interactions each race is having. Around 20% of black men are felons. The number for whites is much lower. Not an indictment of race, has more to do with social status than anything. Low income white neighborhoods are basically indistinguishable from low income black neighborhoods, outside of the drugs used and choice of music. To become a felon means some sort of interaction with law enforcement. If you want to debate why that is, take it up in a different thread. Point of this is that when amount of police interaction are taken into consideration, whites are killed more often than blacks. Blacks on the other hand are the ones feeling the effects more so than whites in general.

Let’s use philando Castile as a case study. Yes he’s black, but there’s also a similar case of the white kid in Nevada sobbing on his knees begging the police not to shoot him, reaches to pull his pants up (that he already stated we’re falling down) and gets smoked. I digress. Philandos case recap: he’s pulled over, correctly tells the officer that he is carrying, and that he has his carrier permit. Officer tells him not to reach, Philando says something to the effect of I’m just grabbing my wallet, and then gets smoked. Officers in both cases were found to be completely within their rights to shoot. There lies your problem. Both officers were wrong to do so. But both officers were trained to do so. It’s ridiculous to me that police have a lower standard of use of lethal force than our soldiers do in literal war zones. Movies like lethal weapon have cops in gunfights on a daily basis. Policing overall is a fairly safe job. More dangerous than most, but other jobs like construction and garbage collection are more dangerous. Truth is that far more cops die when they’re hit by a car after pulling someone over than the apocalypse scenario they keep citing of getting shot by the driver they just pulled over. Yes that still happens, it’s tragic, but also extremely rare. Truth is what’s really killing cops is traffic accidents and diabetes (they are among the most overweight professions out there). Yet the amount of SWAT teams being created, tactical weaponry and vehicles being issued, and the no knock warrants has been exploding. This explosion was happening despite the already quickly declining crime rates.

So, what are solutions. Obviously there needs to be training reform. SOME departments are trained that if you draw your weapon, that is more often than not a failure because the police in the situation failed to de-escalate the situation. Most of the people they’re smoking are people with mental disabilities. Plenty are violent criminals, yes. Now I want cops to be armed and have every ability to defend themselves. But I also want there to be clear rules for use of lethal force. Clear rules for how they detain and subdue someone. We also need to get rid of police unions. Anytime a public sector union negotiates, THEY ARE NEGOTIATING AGAINST THE PUBLIC TAXPAYER. That goes for the rules they advocate, as well as the money they get. Some examples of some of those rules. The biggest is the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights (LEBOR). Basically many states have the LEBOR that’s states that police have to be treated with kid gloves when being investigated. This is immoral. Plain and simple. They have one system of justice, we have another. Another one that’s been mentioned a lot, that concerns me less, is the qualified immunity, which deals with civil suits. Still bullshit though.

TRUE STORIES!

back in the 1980s

2 incidents

only vaguely remember ....short on "details"

1. women is being violently abused and attacked by her exhusband/exboyfriend (repeatedly)

she gets a gun and shoots him (as he starts to attack her again)

4 shots.

kills him

she is arrested and told "one shot was enough! one shot was self defense!....the other 3 were murder!"

gets convicted, goes to prison

2. at around the same time somebody (black? white?) was shot dead by MULTIPLE COPS with 14 bullets!

nobody tells the cops; "one bullet was enough"...."the other 13 were murder"

When I was stationed up at Newport RI, they put me on the Security Force, which is basically base police. And, one of the main things that the Gunny stressed to us was ammo control, not to empty your gun into a suspect. On the range, we had to shoot from various positions, and each position required 1-3 shots depending on what the Gunny laid out for the range. And, if you got to the last couple of targets and didn't have any more bullets, you failed the course because you forgot about ammo control.

Police would do well to learn the same. Shoot at the suspect 1-3 times, stop, reassess the situation, and only if required, fire more shots downrange, not empty the entire weapon into them.

 

[MisterBeale]

the answer to that falls under to pretext of the OP,,,

Which is...?

cops are out of control and think they can do as they please,,,

The Police Are Still Out of Control
I should know.

By FRANK SERPICO

October 23, 2014

The Police Are Still Out of Control

The man who exposed New York City's crooked cops speaks out again.

www.politico.com

 

[task0778]

" We also need to get rid of police unions. "

Good OP, well written. I think we should get rid of all public unions, not just the police union. It frees up a lot of money, when Camden NJ disbanded their police force they ended up with more cops in the city at almost half the price per cop because the city dropped the police union when they disbanded the PD. And the same is true for teachers unions and others that are strangling so many cities, counties, and states in unfunded liabilities that they cannot possibly meet. That frees up money that could go to programs that might preclude kids from entering criminal activities in the 1st place. Or upgrade their educational facilities or something. And the city can hire people to do the non-violet stuff that cops are being misused for today. You don't need a cop issuing tickets for parking violations, or directing traffic when the church crowd is leaving after services are over.

But as much as anything else, eliminating the police unions means that mayors, DAs, police chiefs, judges and the like won't be receiving political campaign donations that might sway their decisions for prosecuting bad cops or keeping them on the force. We'v got to be able to fire the bad cops if enough evidence exists to warrant it. Maybe you can't prosecute them in a court of law, but we shouldn't be having bad cops being retained after repeated complaints if justified. Somebody has to look out for thecop's rigts but somebody else has to look out for the interests of the community too.

 

[MisterBeale]

The issues we see today are NOT a race problem. They are a policing problem. Yes there IS a policing problem. I’ve been on this train long before Micheal Brown made it in the news. The stats simply don’t point to it being a race problem. Now, stick with me black folk. YES more black people per capita are killed by police than white people, despite only making up 13% of the population. What you have to take into account is the amount of police interactions each race is having. Around 20% of black men are felons. The number for whites is much lower. Not an indictment of race, has more to do with social status than anything. Low income white neighborhoods are basically indistinguishable from low income black neighborhoods, outside of the drugs used and choice of music. To become a felon means some sort of interaction with law enforcement. If you want to debate why that is, take it up in a different thread. Point of this is that when amount of police interaction are taken into consideration, whites are killed more often than blacks. Blacks on the other hand are the ones feeling the effects more so than whites in general.

Let’s use philando Castile as a case study. Yes he’s black, but there’s also a similar case of the white kid in Nevada sobbing on his knees begging the police not to shoot him, reaches to pull his pants up (that he already stated we’re falling down) and gets smoked. I digress. Philandos case recap: he’s pulled over, correctly tells the officer that he is carrying, and that he has his carrier permit. Officer tells him not to reach, Philando says something to the effect of I’m just grabbing my wallet, and then gets smoked. Officers in both cases were found to be completely within their rights to shoot. There lies your problem. Both officers were wrong to do so. But both officers were trained to do so. It’s ridiculous to me that police have a lower standard of use of lethal force than our soldiers do in literal war zones. Movies like lethal weapon have cops in gunfights on a daily basis. Policing overall is a fairly safe job. More dangerous than most, but other jobs like construction and garbage collection are more dangerous. Truth is that far more cops die when they’re hit by a car after pulling someone over than the apocalypse scenario they keep citing of getting shot by the driver they just pulled over. Yes that still happens, it’s tragic, but also extremely rare. Truth is what’s really killing cops is traffic accidents and diabetes (they are among the most overweight professions out there). Yet the amount of SWAT teams being created, tactical weaponry and vehicles being issued, and the no knock warrants has been exploding. This explosion was happening despite the already quickly declining crime rates.

So, what are solutions. Obviously there needs to be training reform. SOME departments are trained that if you draw your weapon, that is more often than not a failure because the police in the situation failed to de-escalate the situation. Most of the people they’re smoking are people with mental disabilities. Plenty are violent criminals, yes. Now I want cops to be armed and have every ability to defend themselves. But I also want there to be clear rules for use of lethal force. Clear rules for how they detain and subdue someone. We also need to get rid of police unions. Anytime a public sector union negotiates, THEY ARE NEGOTIATING AGAINST THE PUBLIC TAXPAYER. That goes for the rules they advocate, as well as the money they get. Some examples of some of those rules. The biggest is the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights (LEBOR). Basically many states have the LEBOR that’s states that police have to be treated with kid gloves when being investigated. This is immoral. Plain and simple. They have one system of justice, we have another. Another one that’s been mentioned a lot, that concerns me less, is the qualified immunity, which deals with civil suits. Still bullshit though.

TRUE STORIES!

back in the 1980s

2 incidents

only vaguely remember ....short on "details"

1. women is being violently abused and attacked by her exhusband/exboyfriend (repeatedly)

she gets a gun and shoots him (as he starts to attack her again)

4 shots.

kills him

she is arrested and told "one shot was enough! one shot was self defense!....the other 3 were murder!"

gets convicted, goes to prison

2. at around the same time somebody (black? white?) was shot dead by MULTIPLE COPS with 14 bullets!

nobody tells the cops; "one bullet was enough"...."the other 13 were murder"

When I was stationed up at Newport RI, they put me on the Security Force, which is basically base police. And, one of the main things that the Gunny stressed to us was ammo control, not to empty your gun into a suspect. On the range, we had to shoot from various positions, and each position required 1-3 shots depending on what the Gunny laid out for the range. And, if you got to the last couple of targets and didn't have any more bullets, you failed the course because you forgot about ammo control.

Police would do well to learn the same. Shoot at the suspect 1-3 times, stop, reassess the situation, and only if required, fire more shots downrange, not empty the entire weapon into them.

This was a good investigation into police training. . . . and a laugh. . . .

 

[MisterBeale]

The issues we see today are NOT a race problem. They are a policing problem. Yes there IS a policing problem. I’ve been on this train long before Micheal Brown made it in the news. The stats simply don’t point to it being a race problem. Now, stick with me black folk. YES more black people per capita are killed by police than white people, despite only making up 13% of the population. What you have to take into account is the amount of police interactions each race is having. Around 20% of black men are felons. The number for whites is much lower. Not an indictment of race, has more to do with social status than anything. Low income white neighborhoods are basically indistinguishable from low income black neighborhoods, outside of the drugs used and choice of music. To become a felon means some sort of interaction with law enforcement. If you want to debate why that is, take it up in a different thread. Point of this is that when amount of police interaction are taken into consideration, whites are killed more often than blacks. Blacks on the other hand are the ones feeling the effects more so than whites in general.

Let’s use philando Castile as a case study. Yes he’s black, but there’s also a similar case of the white kid in Nevada sobbing on his knees begging the police not to shoot him, reaches to pull his pants up (that he already stated we’re falling down) and gets smoked. I digress. Philandos case recap: he’s pulled over, correctly tells the officer that he is carrying, and that he has his carrier permit. Officer tells him not to reach, Philando says something to the effect of I’m just grabbing my wallet, and then gets smoked. Officers in both cases were found to be completely within their rights to shoot. There lies your problem. Both officers were wrong to do so. But both officers were trained to do so. It’s ridiculous to me that police have a lower standard of use of lethal force than our soldiers do in literal war zones. Movies like lethal weapon have cops in gunfights on a daily basis. Policing overall is a fairly safe job. More dangerous than most, but other jobs like construction and garbage collection are more dangerous. Truth is that far more cops die when they’re hit by a car after pulling someone over than the apocalypse scenario they keep citing of getting shot by the driver they just pulled over. Yes that still happens, it’s tragic, but also extremely rare. Truth is what’s really killing cops is traffic accidents and diabetes (they are among the most overweight professions out there). Yet the amount of SWAT teams being created, tactical weaponry and vehicles being issued, and the no knock warrants has been exploding. This explosion was happening despite the already quickly declining crime rates.

So, what are solutions. Obviously there needs to be training reform. SOME departments are trained that if you draw your weapon, that is more often than not a failure because the police in the situation failed to de-escalate the situation. Most of the people they’re smoking are people with mental disabilities. Plenty are violent criminals, yes. Now I want cops to be armed and have every ability to defend themselves. But I also want there to be clear rules for use of lethal force. Clear rules for how they detain and subdue someone. We also need to get rid of police unions. Anytime a public sector union negotiates, THEY ARE NEGOTIATING AGAINST THE PUBLIC TAXPAYER. That goes for the rules they advocate, as well as the money they get. Some examples of some of those rules. The biggest is the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights (LEBOR). Basically many states have the LEBOR that’s states that police have to be treated with kid gloves when being investigated. This is immoral. Plain and simple. They have one system of justice, we have another. Another one that’s been mentioned a lot, that concerns me less, is the qualified immunity, which deals with civil suits. Still bullshit though.

"[3] Police dislike defiance. Jonathan Rubinstein (1973), a sociologist who joined the Philadelphia police in order to study their everyday life (similar to Peter Moskos in the Baltimore PD 30 years later), found that their number-one priority is to be the person in control in all encounters with civilians. For the most part, a cop is out there alone, or with a single partner; they are almost always outnumbered by civilians. Particularly in areas where they know they are unpopular, they feel it is imperative to not let things get out of control. They want to be the one who starts and ends the encounter, who sets the speaking turns (micro-sociology of conversation), who sets the rhythm of the interaction. Acts of defiance, whether micro-actions on the level of voice and gesture, or more blatant words and body movements, will cause a cop to increase their own aggressiveness in order to maintain dominance (Alpert and Dunham 2004). This a reason why trivial encounters with the police can escalate to violence far beyond what seems called for by the original issue.

[3a] Inner-city black code of the street emphasizes defiance. Elijah Anderson’s ethnography of black street life (1999; also Krupnick and Winship 2015) point out that in dangerous areas, where the police are distrusted, most people adopt a stance of being hyper-vigilant about threats and disrespect, and portray themselves as ready to use violence. Anderson says this is mostly a Goffmanian frontstage, a pretence at being tough designed to avoid being victimized. When dealing with the police, this leads to another vicious circle. Black people, particularly on their home turf, are more defiant of police than are whites; often this is no more than a confrontational way of talking, but these are micro-interactions that arouse police aggressiveness. Anderson notes that one reason people in the ghetto are wary of calling police is that they themselves may end up being arrested, because of the tone of these micro-interactions. Donald Black (1980), who pioneered observer ride-alongs in police cars, found that police arrested black suspects more than whites, but this happened when black people were defiant, which was more often than whites...."

SEVEN REASONS WHY POLICE ARE DISLIKED

A theme of protest demonstrations since late May 2020 is that police violence persists despite previous episodes of public outrage ...

sociological-eye.blogspot.com

The sociology of police violence (racism isn't the real problem)

This is informative (much more so than the "cops are racist" blather on social media), from the always insightful Randall Collins (Penn); it sheds lights on both why people dislike the police, and the situational and social variables that incline...

leiterreports.typepad.com

 

[MarcATL]

I agree its happening and is why I stand against it,,,

Interesting.