Bob Barr At CPAC: 'How Would You Like To Be Waterboarded?'

[Claudette]

silly hypothetical.... and it falls squarely in the "slippery slope" category, doesn't it?

If you have one captive whose information can save 10K lives, you say torture them.

What if the number is only 1K instead of 10K? I would assume you would torture them.

What if we had ten captives and we were almost certain that at least one of them had informatin that would save 500 lives? I would assume you would torture them all.

What if we had five hundred captives and we had a pretty good idea that one of them had information that would save TEN lives? torture them all?

The point being..... once you start down that slope, it is impossible to use any moral justification to refrain from continuing down it.

My hypothetical is no sillier than yours is. LOL

Suffice to say that I am not going to agree with you and you are not going to agree with me. End of story.

Peace

Would you be willing to go to prison for torturing your so called terrorist?

Would you be willing to live with yourself by letting 10,000 people die even if you knew you had the right dirtbag???

 

[bodecea]

My hypothetical is no sillier than yours is. LOL

Suffice to say that I am not going to agree with you and you are not going to agree with me. End of story.

Peace

Would you be willing to go to prison for torturing your so called terrorist?

Would you be willing to live with yourself by letting 10,000 people die even if you knew you had the right dirtbag???

Would you be willing to go to prison for torturing your so called terrorist? Answer the question.

 

[CMike]

silly hypothetical.... and it falls squarely in the "slippery slope" category, doesn't it?

If you have one captive whose information can save 10K lives, you say torture them.

What if the number is only 1K instead of 10K? I would assume you would torture them.

What if we had ten captives and we were almost certain that at least one of them had informatin that would save 500 lives? I would assume you would torture them all.

What if we had five hundred captives and we had a pretty good idea that one of them had information that would save TEN lives? torture them all?

The point being..... once you start down that slope, it is impossible to use any moral justification to refrain from continuing down it.

It's not at all hypothetical. And I don't buy your definition of torture.

If waterboarding 3 arch mass murdering terrorists stops a terrorist attack, I would be happy to pour the first bucket of water.

How would you KNOW they were terrorists?

I want to stress that I am not dealing with hypotheticals. I am dealing with the reality of what happened.

If you question the terrorists about terrorist attacks, and there response is "soon, you will know" that is a good indication that they are terrorists.

How would you KNOW that torturing them would stop a terror attack?

You can never guarantee what will happen in the future.

However, in the case of the 3 terrorists all other measures failed. This was right after 911 when I am sure the intelligence agencies were scared anything can happen. When asked about terrorist attacks the terrorists response was "soon you will know"

So the CIA had two choices.

They could wait and see what terrorist attack will be successully implemented and suffer the consequences or they can do what they need to do to find out what terrorist attacks they were planning and do whatever they can to thwart them.

Thank G-D they did the second approach and thousands of american lives were spared as a result.

Once again waterboarding the three terrorists stopped two major terrorist attacks which saved thousands of lives.

I am still waiting for the proof that that is true at all.

I have provided it numerous times. Pages 8-11. I am providing the actual documentation, not news stories or reports about the documentation, but the ACTUAL DOCUMENTATION.

http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/clients/aclu/olc_05302005_bradbury.pdf

The better question is would you allow thousands of americans to be tortured by dying agonizing deaths because you refuse to wateboard 3 arch terrorists, whose information would thwart the attacks?

Hey, if we kill every prisoner in our prisons, that would save some thousands of Americans from theft and death in the future.

If we shut down our roads, that would save some hundreds of thousands of Americans from fiery deaths in the future.

If we stop the manufacture and sale of cigarettes, that would save some millions of Americans from cancer deaths.

You up for that too?

Relevance?

 

[CMike]

Would you be willing to go to prison for torturing your so called terrorist?

Would you be willing to live with yourself by letting 10,000 people die even if you knew you had the right dirtbag???

Would you be willing to go to prison for torturing your so called terrorist? Answer the question.

Would you be willing to go to prison for allowing thousands of americans to die because you were too much of a pussy to cause discomfort to mass murdering terrorists?

 

[Claudette]

Would you be willing to go to prison for torturing your so called terrorist?

Would you be willing to live with yourself by letting 10,000 people die even if you knew you had the right dirtbag???

Would you be willing to go to prison for torturing your so called terrorist? Answer the question.

If it saved 10,00 American lives, yes I would.

How about answering mine?? Would you let 10,000 americans die even though you knew you had the right dirtbag with the info you needed to save em???

 

[maineman]

Since we are speaking hypothetically here. Lets assume the captured dirtbag has all the iinfo you need to save those 10,000 lives and you have a limited amount of time to act.

What would you do???

silly hypothetical.... and it falls squarely in the "slippery slope" category, doesn't it?

If you have one captive whose information can save 10K lives, you say torture them.

What if the number is only 1K instead of 10K? I would assume you would torture them.

What if we had ten captives and we were almost certain that at least one of them had informatin that would save 500 lives? I would assume you would torture them all.

What if we had five hundred captives and we had a pretty good idea that one of them had information that would save TEN lives? torture them all?

The point being..... once you start down that slope, it is impossible to use any moral justification to refrain from continuing down it.

It's not at all hypothetical. And I don't buy your definition of torture.

If waterboarding 3 arch mass murdering terrorists stops a terrorist attack, I would be happy to pour the first bucket of water.

I would guess most americans would say the same thing.

Once again waterboarding the three terrorists stopped two major terrorist attacks which saved thousands of lives.

The better question is would you allow thousands of americans to be tortured by dying agonizing deaths because you refuse to wateboard 3 arch terrorists, whose information would thwart the attacks?

again...silly hypothetical.. How would anyone KNOW that the information any captive had would save lives until after they had divulged it?

And why not answer the rest of my slippery slope comparisons. Where does torture stop?

It reminds me of a joke. A man sit down next to a stunningly beautiful woman at a bar. He says, "Please excuse me for being so forward, but you'll soon realize that I really don't have a lot of time for small talk. I am a wealthy entrepreneur who just found out that I have pancreatic cancer and have about six months to live. I have always put work ahead of romance and that needs to stop right now. If I gave you ten million dollars, would you come away with me to my private yacht in the Mediterranean and be my lover while I still have life?" She was stunned, but he looked so sincere and was pretty good looking... and ten million dollars was a LOT of money... so she said, "Yes, you poor kind man...YES! I will go with you to your yacht in the Mediterranean". He then said, "Great! Would you slip out into the alley behind the bar right now and give me a blowjob for ten bucks?" She said, "What???? What sort of woman do you take me for????" He said, "We've already established that, now we're just haggling over the price!"

Today you torture one terrorist to save 10K Americans, tomorrow, you'll torture five hundred terrorists to maybe save ten Americans.... next year, you'll torture bank robbers to get them to tell you where they hid the loot. Once you start, you no longer can make ANY moral argument to stop.

 

[bodecea]

Would you be willing to live with yourself by letting 10,000 people die even if you knew you had the right dirtbag???

Would you be willing to go to prison for torturing your so called terrorist? Answer the question.

If it saved 10,00 American lives, yes I would.

Thank you for admitting that you understand torture to be a crime. There is hope for you yet.


However, CMike is too much a coward to answer my question. He (and "Sgt" Ollie) talk tough...only.

 

[CMike]

silly hypothetical.... and it falls squarely in the "slippery slope" category, doesn't it?

If you have one captive whose information can save 10K lives, you say torture them.

What if the number is only 1K instead of 10K? I would assume you would torture them.

What if we had ten captives and we were almost certain that at least one of them had informatin that would save 500 lives? I would assume you would torture them all.

What if we had five hundred captives and we had a pretty good idea that one of them had information that would save TEN lives? torture them all?

The point being..... once you start down that slope, it is impossible to use any moral justification to refrain from continuing down it.

It's not at all hypothetical. And I don't buy your definition of torture.

If waterboarding 3 arch mass murdering terrorists stops a terrorist attack, I would be happy to pour the first bucket of water.

I would guess most americans would say the same thing.

Once again waterboarding the three terrorists stopped two major terrorist attacks which saved thousands of lives.

The better question is would you allow thousands of americans to be tortured by dying agonizing deaths because you refuse to wateboard 3 arch terrorists, whose information would thwart the attacks?

again...silly hypothetical.. How would anyone KNOW that the information any captive had would save lives until after they had divulged it?

And why not answer the rest of my slippery slope comparisons. Where does torture stop?

It reminds me of a joke. A man sit down next to a stunningly beautiful woman at a bar. He says, "Please excuse me for being so forward, but you'll soon realize that I really don't have a lot of time for small talk. I am a wealthy entrepreneur who just found out that I have pancreatic cancer and have about six months to live. I have always put work ahead of romance and that needs to stop right now. If I gave you ten million dollars, would you come away with me to my private yacht in the Mediterranean and be my lover while I still have life?" She was stunned, but he looked so sincere and was pretty good looking... and ten million dollars was a LOT of money... so she said, "Yes, you poor kind man...YES! I will go with you to your yacht in the Mediterranean". He then said, "Great! Would you slip out into the alley behind the bar right now and give me a blowjob for ten bucks?" She said, "What???? What sort of woman do you take me for????" He said, "We've already established that, now we're just haggling over the price!"

Today you torture one terrorist to save 10K Americans, tomorrow, you'll torture five hundred terrorists to maybe save ten Americans.... next year, you'll torture bank robbers to get them to tell you where they hid the loot. Once you start, you no longer can make ANY moral argument to stop.

The better comfort is too what lengths would you not go to in order to save american lives?

Would you interorgate them without a lawyer? That would could be pretty upsetting to the terrorist

Would you threaten them with longer prison sentences? That could cause emotional trauma

Would you put them in solitary confinement? People are social animals and that could be considered torture

Would you not give them high quality food? That could be pretty upseetting

Would you keep them handcuffed during interrogation? That could be considered torture and uncomfortable

Bottom line- The three terrorists were taunting the interrogators.

The waterboarding was midler than done to some of our CIA personnel in their training

All other measures failed

It worked

It stopped two major terrorist attacks, and saved thousands of american lives.

To the CIA people who did it

 

[Claudette]

Would you be willing to go to prison for torturing your so called terrorist? Answer the question.

If it saved 10,00 American lives, yes I would.

Thank you for admitting that you understand torture to be a crime. There is hope for you yet.


However, CMike is too much a coward to answer my question. He (and "Sgt" Ollie) talk tough...only.

I still don't believe waterboarding to be torture but to save those American lives I would be willing to go to jail.

Now answer my questioin?? Lets see where you really stand.

 

[bodecea]

It's not at all hypothetical. And I don't buy your definition of torture.

If waterboarding 3 arch mass murdering terrorists stops a terrorist attack, I would be happy to pour the first bucket of water.

I would guess most americans would say the same thing.

Once again waterboarding the three terrorists stopped two major terrorist attacks which saved thousands of lives.

The better question is would you allow thousands of americans to be tortured by dying agonizing deaths because you refuse to wateboard 3 arch terrorists, whose information would thwart the attacks?

again...silly hypothetical.. How would anyone KNOW that the information any captive had would save lives until after they had divulged it?

And why not answer the rest of my slippery slope comparisons. Where does torture stop?

It reminds me of a joke. A man sit down next to a stunningly beautiful woman at a bar. He says, "Please excuse me for being so forward, but you'll soon realize that I really don't have a lot of time for small talk. I am a wealthy entrepreneur who just found out that I have pancreatic cancer and have about six months to live. I have always put work ahead of romance and that needs to stop right now. If I gave you ten million dollars, would you come away with me to my private yacht in the Mediterranean and be my lover while I still have life?" She was stunned, but he looked so sincere and was pretty good looking... and ten million dollars was a LOT of money... so she said, "Yes, you poor kind man...YES! I will go with you to your yacht in the Mediterranean". He then said, "Great! Would you slip out into the alley behind the bar right now and give me a blowjob for ten bucks?" She said, "What???? What sort of woman do you take me for????" He said, "We've already established that, now we're just haggling over the price!"

Today you torture one terrorist to save 10K Americans, tomorrow, you'll torture five hundred terrorists to maybe save ten Americans.... next year, you'll torture bank robbers to get them to tell you where they hid the loot. Once you start, you no longer can make ANY moral argument to stop.

The better comfort is too what lengths would you not go to in order to save american lives?

Would you interorgate them without a lawyer? That would could be pretty upsetting to the terrorist

Would you threaten them with longer prison sentences? That could cause emotional trauma

Would you put them in solitary confinement? People are social animals and that could be considered torture

Would you not give them high quality food? That could be pretty upseetting

Would you keep them handcuffed during interrogation? That could be considered torture and uncomfortable

Bottom line- The three terrorists were taunting the interrogators.

The waterboarding was midler than done to some of our CIA personnel in their training

All other measures failed

It worked

It stopped two major terrorist attacks, and saved thousands of american lives.

To the CIA people who did it

Prove. It.

Where were these terrorist attacks to take place?

When were these terrorist attacks to take place?

How many people were saved from these so-called terrorist attacks?

 

[Claudette]

again...silly hypothetical.. How would anyone KNOW that the information any captive had would save lives until after they had divulged it?

And why not answer the rest of my slippery slope comparisons. Where does torture stop?

It reminds me of a joke. A man sit down next to a stunningly beautiful woman at a bar. He says, "Please excuse me for being so forward, but you'll soon realize that I really don't have a lot of time for small talk. I am a wealthy entrepreneur who just found out that I have pancreatic cancer and have about six months to live. I have always put work ahead of romance and that needs to stop right now. If I gave you ten million dollars, would you come away with me to my private yacht in the Mediterranean and be my lover while I still have life?" She was stunned, but he looked so sincere and was pretty good looking... and ten million dollars was a LOT of money... so she said, "Yes, you poor kind man...YES! I will go with you to your yacht in the Mediterranean". He then said, "Great! Would you slip out into the alley behind the bar right now and give me a blowjob for ten bucks?" She said, "What???? What sort of woman do you take me for????" He said, "We've already established that, now we're just haggling over the price!"

Today you torture one terrorist to save 10K Americans, tomorrow, you'll torture five hundred terrorists to maybe save ten Americans.... next year, you'll torture bank robbers to get them to tell you where they hid the loot. Once you start, you no longer can make ANY moral argument to stop.

The better comfort is too what lengths would you not go to in order to save american lives?

Would you interorgate them without a lawyer? That would could be pretty upsetting to the terrorist

Would you threaten them with longer prison sentences? That could cause emotional trauma

Would you put them in solitary confinement? People are social animals and that could be considered torture

Would you not give them high quality food? That could be pretty upseetting

Would you keep them handcuffed during interrogation? That could be considered torture and uncomfortable

Bottom line- The three terrorists were taunting the interrogators.

The waterboarding was midler than done to some of our CIA personnel in their training

All other measures failed

It worked

It stopped two major terrorist attacks, and saved thousands of american lives.

To the CIA people who did it

Prove. It.

Where were these terrorist attacks to take place?

When were these terrorist attacks to take place?

How many people were saved from these so-called terrorist attacks?

You still haven't answered my very simple question?? Lets see what stand you would take. Save the lives or not???

 

[bodecea]

The better comfort is too what lengths would you not go to in order to save american lives?

Would you interorgate them without a lawyer? That would could be pretty upsetting to the terrorist

Would you threaten them with longer prison sentences? That could cause emotional trauma

Would you put them in solitary confinement? People are social animals and that could be considered torture

Would you not give them high quality food? That could be pretty upseetting

Would you keep them handcuffed during interrogation? That could be considered torture and uncomfortable

Bottom line- The three terrorists were taunting the interrogators.

The waterboarding was midler than done to some of our CIA personnel in their training

All other measures failed

It worked

It stopped two major terrorist attacks, and saved thousands of american lives.

To the CIA people who did it

Prove. It.

Where were these terrorist attacks to take place?

When were these terrorist attacks to take place?

How many people were saved from these so-called terrorist attacks?

You still haven't answered my very simple question?? Lets see what stand you would take. Save the lives or not???

I most certainly DID answer your question.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2052895-post436.html

 

[Claudette]

Prove. It.

Where were these terrorist attacks to take place?

When were these terrorist attacks to take place?

How many people were saved from these so-called terrorist attacks?

You still haven't answered my very simple question?? Lets see what stand you would take. Save the lives or not???

I most certainly DID answer your question.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2052895-post436.html

My apologies.

You did answer and your answer is basically the same as mine. You would do what it took to save those lives.

 

[CMike]

again...silly hypothetical.. How would anyone KNOW that the information any captive had would save lives until after they had divulged it?

And why not answer the rest of my slippery slope comparisons. Where does torture stop?

It reminds me of a joke. A man sit down next to a stunningly beautiful woman at a bar. He says, "Please excuse me for being so forward, but you'll soon realize that I really don't have a lot of time for small talk. I am a wealthy entrepreneur who just found out that I have pancreatic cancer and have about six months to live. I have always put work ahead of romance and that needs to stop right now. If I gave you ten million dollars, would you come away with me to my private yacht in the Mediterranean and be my lover while I still have life?" She was stunned, but he looked so sincere and was pretty good looking... and ten million dollars was a LOT of money... so she said, "Yes, you poor kind man...YES! I will go with you to your yacht in the Mediterranean". He then said, "Great! Would you slip out into the alley behind the bar right now and give me a blowjob for ten bucks?" She said, "What???? What sort of woman do you take me for????" He said, "We've already established that, now we're just haggling over the price!"

Today you torture one terrorist to save 10K Americans, tomorrow, you'll torture five hundred terrorists to maybe save ten Americans.... next year, you'll torture bank robbers to get them to tell you where they hid the loot. Once you start, you no longer can make ANY moral argument to stop.

The better comfort is too what lengths would you not go to in order to save american lives?

Would you interorgate them without a lawyer? That would could be pretty upsetting to the terrorist

Would you threaten them with longer prison sentences? That could cause emotional trauma

Would you put them in solitary confinement? People are social animals and that could be considered torture

Would you not give them high quality food? That could be pretty upseetting

Would you keep them handcuffed during interrogation? That could be considered torture and uncomfortable

Bottom line- The three terrorists were taunting the interrogators.

The waterboarding was midler than done to some of our CIA personnel in their training

All other measures failed

It worked

It stopped two major terrorist attacks, and saved thousands of american lives.

To the CIA people who did it

Prove. It.

Where were these terrorist attacks to take place?

When were these terrorist attacks to take place?

How many people were saved from these so-called terrorist attacks?

I did numerous times

Once again pages 8-11

http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/clients/aclu/olc_05302005_bradbury.pdf

 

[maineman]

It's not at all hypothetical. And I don't buy your definition of torture.

If waterboarding 3 arch mass murdering terrorists stops a terrorist attack, I would be happy to pour the first bucket of water.

I would guess most americans would say the same thing.

Once again waterboarding the three terrorists stopped two major terrorist attacks which saved thousands of lives.

The better question is would you allow thousands of americans to be tortured by dying agonizing deaths because you refuse to wateboard 3 arch terrorists, whose information would thwart the attacks?

again...silly hypothetical.. How would anyone KNOW that the information any captive had would save lives until after they had divulged it?

And why not answer the rest of my slippery slope comparisons. Where does torture stop?

It reminds me of a joke. A man sit down next to a stunningly beautiful woman at a bar. He says, "Please excuse me for being so forward, but you'll soon realize that I really don't have a lot of time for small talk. I am a wealthy entrepreneur who just found out that I have pancreatic cancer and have about six months to live. I have always put work ahead of romance and that needs to stop right now. If I gave you ten million dollars, would you come away with me to my private yacht in the Mediterranean and be my lover while I still have life?" She was stunned, but he looked so sincere and was pretty good looking... and ten million dollars was a LOT of money... so she said, "Yes, you poor kind man...YES! I will go with you to your yacht in the Mediterranean". He then said, "Great! Would you slip out into the alley behind the bar right now and give me a blowjob for ten bucks?" She said, "What???? What sort of woman do you take me for????" He said, "We've already established that, now we're just haggling over the price!"

Today you torture one terrorist to save 10K Americans, tomorrow, you'll torture five hundred terrorists to maybe save ten Americans.... next year, you'll torture bank robbers to get them to tell you where they hid the loot. Once you start, you no longer can make ANY moral argument to stop.

The better comfort is too what lengths would you not go to in order to save american lives?

Would you interorgate them without a lawyer? That would could be pretty upsetting to the terrorist

Would you threaten them with longer prison sentences? That could cause emotional trauma

Would you put them in solitary confinement? People are social animals and that could be considered torture

Would you not give them high quality food? That could be pretty upseetting

Would you keep them handcuffed during interrogation? That could be considered torture and uncomfortable

Bottom line- The three terrorists were taunting the interrogators.

The waterboarding was midler than done to some of our CIA personnel in their training

All other measures failed

It worked

It stopped two major terrorist attacks, and saved thousands of american lives.

To the CIA people who did it

the point is: waterboarding has been considered torture since the days of the spanish inquisition... if THAT hadn't worked, clearly you would have been all for whatever OTHER even MORE painful method of torture that could be found that DID work... cutting off digits? electric leads to the genitals? who would care? right?

slippery slope.

 

[bodecea]

The better comfort is too what lengths would you not go to in order to save american lives?

Would you interorgate them without a lawyer? That would could be pretty upsetting to the terrorist

Would you threaten them with longer prison sentences? That could cause emotional trauma

Would you put them in solitary confinement? People are social animals and that could be considered torture

Would you not give them high quality food? That could be pretty upseetting

Would you keep them handcuffed during interrogation? That could be considered torture and uncomfortable

Bottom line- The three terrorists were taunting the interrogators.

The waterboarding was midler than done to some of our CIA personnel in their training

All other measures failed

It worked

It stopped two major terrorist attacks, and saved thousands of american lives.

To the CIA people who did it

Prove. It.

Where were these terrorist attacks to take place?

When were these terrorist attacks to take place?

How many people were saved from these so-called terrorist attacks?

I did numerous times

Once again pages 8-11

http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/clients/aclu/olc_05302005_bradbury.pdf

40 pages of half blacked out stuff? LOL....either you are a fool, or you take me for one.

I'll ask again.

Prove it.

 

[Old Rocks]

MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T CRASH PLANES INTO BUILDINGS THEN!!!!!1!! one one one!!!

So that makes it OK to torture a poor taxi driver in Afghanistan to death?

 

[Vanquish]

WTF is this "would you save lives" bullshit? Again? Seriously?

You Claudette lives in some dreamworld where bad guys have big blinking lights over their heads and it's easy to save people.

She's also decided that it's ok to screw with the rules our Founding fathers had (cruel and unusual punishment) to TRY to save lives.

Talk about a fantasy world.

 

[bodecea]

WTF is this "would you save lives" bullshit? Again? Seriously?

You Claudette lives in some dreamworld where bad guys have big blinking lights over their heads and it's easy to save people.

She's also decided that it's ok to screw with the rules our Founding fathers had (cruel and unusual punishment) to TRY to save lives.

Talk about a fantasy world.

They've watched too much "24", which is a FICTIONAL show, folks.

 

[SFC Ollie]

WTF is this "would you save lives" bullshit? Again? Seriously?

You Claudette lives in some dreamworld where bad guys have big blinking lights over their heads and it's easy to save people.

She's also decided that it's ok to screw with the rules our Founding fathers had (cruel and unusual punishment) to TRY to save lives.

Talk about a fantasy world.

I'm pretty certain that the CIA knew who they had and they chose those 3 very carefully for enhanced interrogations.