Black Volunteers For Trump

[Ario]

I am very frustrated...I simply cant vote for Trump because of his ego and crazy remarks and comments. The last straw for me with Trump was his disrespect of the Bushes and John McCain. I cant vote for Cruz because he is way too far to the right and after the Carson dropping out drama I now think he is sleezy. I cant vote for Rubio because of his immigration stance...remember I live in Miami! I cant vote for Christie...sorry but last nights debate showed a side of him to be a big nasty bully. I cant vote for Hillary.....for heavens sakes she is under FBI investigation and I cant vote for Bernie because socialism is not my thing at all. This election is a travesty! If Jeb or Carly is not anywhere on the ticket I will be sitting this one out.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Trump would get around 7 or 8% of the black vote in a general election just like every other Republican has since Bush 41

 

[eagle1462010]

Trump would get around 7 or 8% of the black vote in a general election just like every other Republican has since Bush 41

If by some miracle............Carson won the nomination................what would that estimated percentage be..........................

 

[eagle1462010]

I am very frustrated...I simply cant vote for Trump because of his ego and crazy remarks and comments. The last straw for me with Trump was his disrespect of the Bushes and John McCain. I cant vote for Cruz because he is way too far to the right and after the Carson dropping out drama I now think he is sleezy. I cant vote for Rubio because of his immigration stance...remember I live in Miami! I cant vote for Christie...sorry but last nights debate showed a side of him to be a big nasty bully. I cant vote for Hillary.....for heavens sakes she is under FBI investigation and I cant vote for Bernie because socialism is not my thing at all. This election is a travesty! If Jeb or Carly is not anywhere on the ticket I will be sitting this one out.

If we sit this one out...................the Dems get the SCOTUS selections coming up..................................

 

[Ario]

I am very frustrated...I simply cant vote for Trump because of his ego and crazy remarks and comments. The last straw for me with Trump was his disrespect of the Bushes and John McCain. I cant vote for Cruz because he is way too far to the right and after the Carson dropping out drama I now think he is sleezy. I cant vote for Rubio because of his immigration stance...remember I live in Miami! I cant vote for Christie...sorry but last nights debate showed a side of him to be a big nasty bully. I cant vote for Hillary.....for heavens sakes she is under FBI investigation and I cant vote for Bernie because socialism is not my thing at all. This election is a travesty! If Jeb or Carly is not anywhere on the ticket I will be sitting this one out.

If we sit this one out...................the Dems get the SCOTUS selections coming up..................................

Sorry I am a firm believer in a country deserves who it elects. If the country wants to elect a community organizer that failed to actually organize his community of Southside Chicago...if the people want to elect a woman under investigation of the FBI or if the country wants to elect a super star that likes to run in circles cursing and fuming at the mouth..or a socialist that is advocating for a system of government that has failed in every country it was implemented and that same government being a major factor in why we have soooo many immigrants coming here ..then so be it! I really believe this country must hit rock bottom before it wakes up and stop all this craziness. So Jeb or Carly for me.

 

[Toro]

"Black Volunteers For Trump"

All six of them...

Any day now Trump is going to pivot toward the center to widen his potential constituency.....any day now.

He did so last night in the debate when he said that we should take care of everyone.

He was channeling his inner Democrat.

It was a far cry from the debate in 2012 when members of the Republican crowd were all for letting people without health insurance die.

 

[eagle1462010]

I am very frustrated...I simply cant vote for Trump because of his ego and crazy remarks and comments. The last straw for me with Trump was his disrespect of the Bushes and John McCain. I cant vote for Cruz because he is way too far to the right and after the Carson dropping out drama I now think he is sleezy. I cant vote for Rubio because of his immigration stance...remember I live in Miami! I cant vote for Christie...sorry but last nights debate showed a side of him to be a big nasty bully. I cant vote for Hillary.....for heavens sakes she is under FBI investigation and I cant vote for Bernie because socialism is not my thing at all. This election is a travesty! If Jeb or Carly is not anywhere on the ticket I will be sitting this one out.

If we sit this one out...................the Dems get the SCOTUS selections coming up..................................

Sorry I am a firm believer in a country deserves who it elects. If the country wants to elect a community organizer that failed to actually organize his community of Southside Chicago...if the people want to elect a woman under investigation of the FBI or if the country wants to elect a super star that likes to run in circles cursing and fuming at the mouth..or a socialist that is advocating for a system of government that has failed in every country it was implemented and that same government being a major factor in why we have soooo many immigrants coming here ..then so be it! I really believe this country must hit rock bottom before it wakes up and stop all this craziness. So Jeb or Carly for me.

To each his own.......................I could deal with Carly but not Bush.................................My choice stands with Carson..............................

I will stand with whoever wins in the general.........................I may be voting for the lesser of evils but I may prevent more selections to SCOTUS from the Dems...................

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Donald Trump is evidently expanding his base of support by making inroads with the African American community. Just listen to the enthusiasm this young volunteer has for the Trump campaign.

This will be devastating news for rderp. Someone get Suicide watch on the line!

 

[bripat9643]

I am very frustrated...I simply cant vote for Trump because of his ego and crazy remarks and comments. The last straw for me with Trump was his disrespect of the Bushes and John McCain. I cant vote for Cruz because he is way too far to the right and after the Carson dropping out drama I now think he is sleezy. I cant vote for Rubio because of his immigration stance...remember I live in Miami! I cant vote for Christie...sorry but last nights debate showed a side of him to be a big nasty bully. I cant vote for Hillary.....for heavens sakes she is under FBI investigation and I cant vote for Bernie because socialism is not my thing at all. This election is a travesty! If Jeb or Carly is not anywhere on the ticket I will be sitting this one out.

One of the main things I like about Trump is his disrespect for McCain and the Bushes. Few people have done more damage to the republican party than these two-faced establishment RINOs. They deserve to be treated with contempt.

 

[bripat9643]

I am very frustrated...I simply cant vote for Trump because of his ego and crazy remarks and comments. The last straw for me with Trump was his disrespect of the Bushes and John McCain. I cant vote for Cruz because he is way too far to the right and after the Carson dropping out drama I now think he is sleezy. I cant vote for Rubio because of his immigration stance...remember I live in Miami! I cant vote for Christie...sorry but last nights debate showed a side of him to be a big nasty bully. I cant vote for Hillary.....for heavens sakes she is under FBI investigation and I cant vote for Bernie because socialism is not my thing at all. This election is a travesty! If Jeb or Carly is not anywhere on the ticket I will be sitting this one out.

If we sit this one out...................the Dems get the SCOTUS selections coming up..................................

Sorry I am a firm believer in a country deserves who it elects. If the country wants to elect a community organizer that failed to actually organize his community of Southside Chicago...if the people want to elect a woman under investigation of the FBI or if the country wants to elect a super star that likes to run in circles cursing and fuming at the mouth..or a socialist that is advocating for a system of government that has failed in every country it was implemented and that same government being a major factor in why we have soooo many immigrants coming here ..then so be it! I really believe this country must hit rock bottom before it wakes up and stop all this craziness. So Jeb or Carly for me.

The people who vote for this trash certain deserve it. The rest of us don't.

 

[Liminal]

"Black Volunteers For Trump"

All six of them...

Any day now Trump is going to pivot toward the center to widen his potential constituency.....any day now.

He did so last night in the debate when he said that we should take care of everyone.

He was channeling his inner Democrat.

It was a far cry from the debate in 2012 when members of the Republican crowd were all for letting people without health insurance die.

Just goes to show that Trump doesn't stand for any conservative principles.

 

[Boss]

I've had a really, really weird mix of people tell me they love Trump. All over the place.

Me, I'm still existing in my little cocoon of denial that a person like this could actually get the nomination of a "major" party.
.

Seriously Mac, all partisanship aside, what do expect disenfranchised people to do? On that and the Democratic stage, if you take Trump, Carson, and Cruz off, every one of these people has had a hand in creating this mess we are in. Yes, some were governors, but who stood up against their own party as they pushed us down to where we are?

Trump didn't pass legislation. Carson didn't pass legislation. Cruz fought most, if not all of the legislation. The other people went along, to get along; or ignored what was going on for political expediency.

Who on either stage went to the rally in Washington where 100s of thousands showed against the Iran deal? Want to know who? Trump/Cruz. The rest of them were to busy, but now they think it is important. (on the GOP side that is)

Now you could say it is easy for them to show up, and you are probably correct; but the point is.............if the deal is perceived as capitulation to Iran to allow a nuclear weapon as all the GOP candidates proclaim it is, then why wouldn't they show if it is really a very important issue?

A lot of people have smoke coming out of their ears at Washington. Few in Washington "say what they mean, and mean what they say." They run one way to get elected, then govern another. It is standard operating procedure in Washington, wouldn't you agree?

African Americans are no different than anyone else as Americans. In fact, they have been lied to more than any other group in this country, if you want to take the liberal route, and dissect the population into segments.

And so, the bottom line is that even if Trump leans slightly left, so what! He says what he means, and means what he says. This partisan purity test is ridiculous.

Here---------> If JFK came back from the grave and ran as a Democrat against GW, who should I vote for? JFK! Hey, guess I didn't pass the purity test, but I did pass the American test, which is what is best for America as a whole. Just because a Democrat comes up with an idea, doesn't instantly make it wrong, and vice-versa.

Personally, I want/most want someone who will stand up to BOTH party's and their idiocy. For that to happen, an establishment candidate just isn't going to cut it.

I think I understand that, and I can't blame anyone who is paying attention for being frustrated and angry.

And worse, it's possible that my reaction to my own frustrations with politics have caused me to mentally check out in many ways. Stipulated. If I didn't have to follow politics and politicians for my profession I'd probably ignore the whole fucking thing, seriously.

To put this as succinctly as I can, it just seems to me that the GOP has allowed itself to express its frustrations in unhealthy ways - purity tests, pledges, general knee-jerking, absolutism. A real line has been crossed when anyone running for office who says they will work with the other side is shunned like this.

I sure as hell don't have an answer, but it does seem to me that the current source of energy within the party is causing it more harm than good.
.

Except Trump is saying he can work with the other side of the aisle and leading the GOP polls while saying it...and yet YOU shun him and belittle his supporters.

Yep, I've seen that, and it's one of the reasons this stuff isn't making sense.

One Trump supporter I've talked to here says that he's pretty sure that, when Trump worked with the Democrats, his style & skills will help him consistently win with conservative issues.

Would you agree with that? I don't think it can be done without significant compromise. That's what deal-making is.
.

Conservatism as a philosophy is, and always has been, the way to go. This is what Reagan understood, and in fact, redefined Conservatism with for his time. It is a way of life... a way of problem solving by using time-tested and common-sense solutions. It's totally NOT about an ideology. It's actually the antithesis of radical ideology and seeks to find more reasonable solutions which resolve issues to some degree on both sides of the argument.

Laugh at the personality of Trump all you like, he can certainly be a clown, cartoonish, bombastic... whatever... I think he brings a wherewithal to cut to the chase and work deals to the best of our advantage as Americans. We're not getting screwed if Trump works the deal... I can tell you that....it's gunna be yuge!

But seriously, in the spirit of Conservative philosophy, I think Trump is that and always has been. I have never known of him to be a flaming radical liberal.

 

[Mac1958]

I've had a really, really weird mix of people tell me they love Trump. All over the place.

Me, I'm still existing in my little cocoon of denial that a person like this could actually get the nomination of a "major" party.
.

Seriously Mac, all partisanship aside, what do expect disenfranchised people to do? On that and the Democratic stage, if you take Trump, Carson, and Cruz off, every one of these people has had a hand in creating this mess we are in. Yes, some were governors, but who stood up against their own party as they pushed us down to where we are?

Trump didn't pass legislation. Carson didn't pass legislation. Cruz fought most, if not all of the legislation. The other people went along, to get along; or ignored what was going on for political expediency.

Who on either stage went to the rally in Washington where 100s of thousands showed against the Iran deal? Want to know who? Trump/Cruz. The rest of them were to busy, but now they think it is important. (on the GOP side that is)

Now you could say it is easy for them to show up, and you are probably correct; but the point is.............if the deal is perceived as capitulation to Iran to allow a nuclear weapon as all the GOP candidates proclaim it is, then why wouldn't they show if it is really a very important issue?

A lot of people have smoke coming out of their ears at Washington. Few in Washington "say what they mean, and mean what they say." They run one way to get elected, then govern another. It is standard operating procedure in Washington, wouldn't you agree?

African Americans are no different than anyone else as Americans. In fact, they have been lied to more than any other group in this country, if you want to take the liberal route, and dissect the population into segments.

And so, the bottom line is that even if Trump leans slightly left, so what! He says what he means, and means what he says. This partisan purity test is ridiculous.

Here---------> If JFK came back from the grave and ran as a Democrat against GW, who should I vote for? JFK! Hey, guess I didn't pass the purity test, but I did pass the American test, which is what is best for America as a whole. Just because a Democrat comes up with an idea, doesn't instantly make it wrong, and vice-versa.

Personally, I want/most want someone who will stand up to BOTH party's and their idiocy. For that to happen, an establishment candidate just isn't going to cut it.

I think I understand that, and I can't blame anyone who is paying attention for being frustrated and angry.

And worse, it's possible that my reaction to my own frustrations with politics have caused me to mentally check out in many ways. Stipulated. If I didn't have to follow politics and politicians for my profession I'd probably ignore the whole fucking thing, seriously.

To put this as succinctly as I can, it just seems to me that the GOP has allowed itself to express its frustrations in unhealthy ways - purity tests, pledges, general knee-jerking, absolutism. A real line has been crossed when anyone running for office who says they will work with the other side is shunned like this.

I sure as hell don't have an answer, but it does seem to me that the current source of energy within the party is causing it more harm than good.
.

Except Trump is saying he can work with the other side of the aisle and leading the GOP polls while saying it...and yet YOU shun him and belittle his supporters.

Yep, I've seen that, and it's one of the reasons this stuff isn't making sense.

One Trump supporter I've talked to here says that he's pretty sure that, when Trump worked with the Democrats, his style & skills will help him consistently win with conservative issues.

Would you agree with that? I don't think it can be done without significant compromise. That's what deal-making is.
.

Conservatism as a philosophy is, and always has been, the way to go. This is what Reagan understood, and in fact, redefined Conservatism with for his time. It is a way of life... a way of problem solving by using time-tested and common-sense solutions. It's totally NOT about an ideology. It's actually the antithesis of radical ideology and seeks to find more reasonable solutions which resolve issues to some degree on both sides of the argument.

Laugh at the personality of Trump all you like, he can certainly be a clown, cartoonish, bombastic... whatever... I think he brings a wherewithal to cut to the chase and work deals to the best of our advantage as Americans. We're not getting screwed if Trump works the deal... I can tell you that....it's gunna be yuge!

But seriously, in the spirit of Conservative philosophy, I think Trump is that and always has been. I have never known of him to be a flaming radical liberal.

I had an interesting conversation with another Trump supporter here, and he surprised me on something. I'd like your take on it.

I pointed out how Trump says he'll make the best deals. Okay, that would be good, mutually-satisfactory agreements to unclog the toilet. But that would mean that he'd be giving up things too. He won't be able to make big deals without big concessions.

The poster agreed, and even offered examples of giving up one issue (say, a higher minimum wage) to get another (say, air-tight border security).

That would necessarily mean not having a top-to-bottom conservative agenda win the day. How would you feel about that - do you think that poster represents the opinions of most Trump supporters?
.

 

[Boss]

Seriously Mac, all partisanship aside, what do expect disenfranchised people to do? On that and the Democratic stage, if you take Trump, Carson, and Cruz off, every one of these people has had a hand in creating this mess we are in. Yes, some were governors, but who stood up against their own party as they pushed us down to where we are?

Trump didn't pass legislation. Carson didn't pass legislation. Cruz fought most, if not all of the legislation. The other people went along, to get along; or ignored what was going on for political expediency.

Who on either stage went to the rally in Washington where 100s of thousands showed against the Iran deal? Want to know who? Trump/Cruz. The rest of them were to busy, but now they think it is important. (on the GOP side that is)

Now you could say it is easy for them to show up, and you are probably correct; but the point is.............if the deal is perceived as capitulation to Iran to allow a nuclear weapon as all the GOP candidates proclaim it is, then why wouldn't they show if it is really a very important issue?

A lot of people have smoke coming out of their ears at Washington. Few in Washington "say what they mean, and mean what they say." They run one way to get elected, then govern another. It is standard operating procedure in Washington, wouldn't you agree?

African Americans are no different than anyone else as Americans. In fact, they have been lied to more than any other group in this country, if you want to take the liberal route, and dissect the population into segments.

And so, the bottom line is that even if Trump leans slightly left, so what! He says what he means, and means what he says. This partisan purity test is ridiculous.

Here---------> If JFK came back from the grave and ran as a Democrat against GW, who should I vote for? JFK! Hey, guess I didn't pass the purity test, but I did pass the American test, which is what is best for America as a whole. Just because a Democrat comes up with an idea, doesn't instantly make it wrong, and vice-versa.

Personally, I want/most want someone who will stand up to BOTH party's and their idiocy. For that to happen, an establishment candidate just isn't going to cut it.

I think I understand that, and I can't blame anyone who is paying attention for being frustrated and angry.

And worse, it's possible that my reaction to my own frustrations with politics have caused me to mentally check out in many ways. Stipulated. If I didn't have to follow politics and politicians for my profession I'd probably ignore the whole fucking thing, seriously.

To put this as succinctly as I can, it just seems to me that the GOP has allowed itself to express its frustrations in unhealthy ways - purity tests, pledges, general knee-jerking, absolutism. A real line has been crossed when anyone running for office who says they will work with the other side is shunned like this.

I sure as hell don't have an answer, but it does seem to me that the current source of energy within the party is causing it more harm than good.
.

Except Trump is saying he can work with the other side of the aisle and leading the GOP polls while saying it...and yet YOU shun him and belittle his supporters.

Yep, I've seen that, and it's one of the reasons this stuff isn't making sense.

One Trump supporter I've talked to here says that he's pretty sure that, when Trump worked with the Democrats, his style & skills will help him consistently win with conservative issues.

Would you agree with that? I don't think it can be done without significant compromise. That's what deal-making is.
.

Conservatism as a philosophy is, and always has been, the way to go. This is what Reagan understood, and in fact, redefined Conservatism with for his time. It is a way of life... a way of problem solving by using time-tested and common-sense solutions. It's totally NOT about an ideology. It's actually the antithesis of radical ideology and seeks to find more reasonable solutions which resolve issues to some degree on both sides of the argument.

Laugh at the personality of Trump all you like, he can certainly be a clown, cartoonish, bombastic... whatever... I think he brings a wherewithal to cut to the chase and work deals to the best of our advantage as Americans. We're not getting screwed if Trump works the deal... I can tell you that....it's gunna be yuge!

But seriously, in the spirit of Conservative philosophy, I think Trump is that and always has been. I have never known of him to be a flaming radical liberal.

I had an interesting conversation with another Trump supporter here, and he surprised me on something. I'd like your take on it.

I pointed out how Trump says he'll make the best deals. Okay, that would be good, mutually-satisfactory agreements to unclog the toilet. But that would mean that he'd be giving up things too. He won't be able to make big deals without big concessions.

The poster agreed, and even offered examples of giving up one issue (say, a higher minimum wage) to get another (say, air-tight border security).

That would necessarily mean not having a top-to-bottom conservative agenda win the day. How would you feel about that - do you think that poster represents the opinions of most Trump supporters?
.

I think many Conservative ideologues will be disappointed in Trump. By this, I mean conservatives who have a strong libertarian, social conservative or neocon agenda. He's not going to please those people because he is not, at his core, an ideologue. He is very much a problem-solver. Someone who can objectively evaluate the various arguments and sides of an issue and find some reasonable middle ground where everyone gets to claim a little victory and everyone has to settle for a little defeat.

I think, in a particularly polarized and volatile political climate, that might not be a bad way to go. Otherwise, we're going to have gridlock and 4 more years of kicking the can down the road on the budget, on all the mounting problems, on foreign policy, on domestic policy... on everything under the sun that can be politically divisive.

Personally, I would rather have a strong Constitutional Conservative like Ted Cruz as president.... but that's MY preference. I will continue to support Cruz and work to help him win the party nomination but if Trump pulls it off instead, then I will support him in the general and be content with my choice. It's definitely not the worst thing that could happen.... that would be President Bernie Sanders, imho.

 

[Jackson]

The Viewers View

Now, that was fun! I really enjoy those two!

 

[Jackson]

Seriously Mac, all partisanship aside, what do expect disenfranchised people to do? On that and the Democratic stage, if you take Trump, Carson, and Cruz off, every one of these people has had a hand in creating this mess we are in. Yes, some were governors, but who stood up against their own party as they pushed us down to where we are?

Trump didn't pass legislation. Carson didn't pass legislation. Cruz fought most, if not all of the legislation. The other people went along, to get along; or ignored what was going on for political expediency.

Who on either stage went to the rally in Washington where 100s of thousands showed against the Iran deal? Want to know who? Trump/Cruz. The rest of them were to busy, but now they think it is important. (on the GOP side that is)

Now you could say it is easy for them to show up, and you are probably correct; but the point is.............if the deal is perceived as capitulation to Iran to allow a nuclear weapon as all the GOP candidates proclaim it is, then why wouldn't they show if it is really a very important issue?

A lot of people have smoke coming out of their ears at Washington. Few in Washington "say what they mean, and mean what they say." They run one way to get elected, then govern another. It is standard operating procedure in Washington, wouldn't you agree?

African Americans are no different than anyone else as Americans. In fact, they have been lied to more than any other group in this country, if you want to take the liberal route, and dissect the population into segments.

And so, the bottom line is that even if Trump leans slightly left, so what! He says what he means, and means what he says. This partisan purity test is ridiculous.

Here---------> If JFK came back from the grave and ran as a Democrat against GW, who should I vote for? JFK! Hey, guess I didn't pass the purity test, but I did pass the American test, which is what is best for America as a whole. Just because a Democrat comes up with an idea, doesn't instantly make it wrong, and vice-versa.

Personally, I want/most want someone who will stand up to BOTH party's and their idiocy. For that to happen, an establishment candidate just isn't going to cut it.

I think I understand that, and I can't blame anyone who is paying attention for being frustrated and angry.

And worse, it's possible that my reaction to my own frustrations with politics have caused me to mentally check out in many ways. Stipulated. If I didn't have to follow politics and politicians for my profession I'd probably ignore the whole fucking thing, seriously.

To put this as succinctly as I can, it just seems to me that the GOP has allowed itself to express its frustrations in unhealthy ways - purity tests, pledges, general knee-jerking, absolutism. A real line has been crossed when anyone running for office who says they will work with the other side is shunned like this.

I sure as hell don't have an answer, but it does seem to me that the current source of energy within the party is causing it more harm than good.
.

Except Trump is saying he can work with the other side of the aisle and leading the GOP polls while saying it...and yet YOU shun him and belittle his supporters.

Yep, I've seen that, and it's one of the reasons this stuff isn't making sense.

One Trump supporter I've talked to here says that he's pretty sure that, when Trump worked with the Democrats, his style & skills will help him consistently win with conservative issues.

Would you agree with that? I don't think it can be done without significant compromise. That's what deal-making is.
.

Conservatism as a philosophy is, and always has been, the way to go. This is what Reagan understood, and in fact, redefined Conservatism with for his time. It is a way of life... a way of problem solving by using time-tested and common-sense solutions. It's totally NOT about an ideology. It's actually the antithesis of radical ideology and seeks to find more reasonable solutions which resolve issues to some degree on both sides of the argument.

Laugh at the personality of Trump all you like, he can certainly be a clown, cartoonish, bombastic... whatever... I think he brings a wherewithal to cut to the chase and work deals to the best of our advantage as Americans. We're not getting screwed if Trump works the deal... I can tell you that....it's gunna be yuge!

But seriously, in the spirit of Conservative philosophy, I think Trump is that and always has been. I have never known of him to be a flaming radical liberal.

I had an interesting conversation with another Trump supporter here, and he surprised me on something. I'd like your take on it.

I pointed out how Trump says he'll make the best deals. Okay, that would be good, mutually-satisfactory agreements to unclog the toilet. But that would mean that he'd be giving up things too. He won't be able to make big deals without big concessions.

The poster agreed, and even offered examples of giving up one issue (say, a higher minimum wage) to get another (say, air-tight border security).

That would necessarily mean not having a top-to-bottom conservative agenda win the day. How would you feel about that - do you think that poster represents the opinions of most Trump supporters?
.

Whatever it takes...

 

[Mac1958]

I think I understand that, and I can't blame anyone who is paying attention for being frustrated and angry.

And worse, it's possible that my reaction to my own frustrations with politics have caused me to mentally check out in many ways. Stipulated. If I didn't have to follow politics and politicians for my profession I'd probably ignore the whole fucking thing, seriously.

To put this as succinctly as I can, it just seems to me that the GOP has allowed itself to express its frustrations in unhealthy ways - purity tests, pledges, general knee-jerking, absolutism. A real line has been crossed when anyone running for office who says they will work with the other side is shunned like this.

I sure as hell don't have an answer, but it does seem to me that the current source of energy within the party is causing it more harm than good.
.

Except Trump is saying he can work with the other side of the aisle and leading the GOP polls while saying it...and yet YOU shun him and belittle his supporters.

Yep, I've seen that, and it's one of the reasons this stuff isn't making sense.

One Trump supporter I've talked to here says that he's pretty sure that, when Trump worked with the Democrats, his style & skills will help him consistently win with conservative issues.

Would you agree with that? I don't think it can be done without significant compromise. That's what deal-making is.
.

Conservatism as a philosophy is, and always has been, the way to go. This is what Reagan understood, and in fact, redefined Conservatism with for his time. It is a way of life... a way of problem solving by using time-tested and common-sense solutions. It's totally NOT about an ideology. It's actually the antithesis of radical ideology and seeks to find more reasonable solutions which resolve issues to some degree on both sides of the argument.

Laugh at the personality of Trump all you like, he can certainly be a clown, cartoonish, bombastic... whatever... I think he brings a wherewithal to cut to the chase and work deals to the best of our advantage as Americans. We're not getting screwed if Trump works the deal... I can tell you that....it's gunna be yuge!

But seriously, in the spirit of Conservative philosophy, I think Trump is that and always has been. I have never known of him to be a flaming radical liberal.

I had an interesting conversation with another Trump supporter here, and he surprised me on something. I'd like your take on it.

I pointed out how Trump says he'll make the best deals. Okay, that would be good, mutually-satisfactory agreements to unclog the toilet. But that would mean that he'd be giving up things too. He won't be able to make big deals without big concessions.

The poster agreed, and even offered examples of giving up one issue (say, a higher minimum wage) to get another (say, air-tight border security).

That would necessarily mean not having a top-to-bottom conservative agenda win the day. How would you feel about that - do you think that poster represents the opinions of most Trump supporters?
.

I think many Conservative ideologues will be disappointed in Trump. By this, I mean conservatives who have a strong libertarian, social conservative or neocon agenda. He's not going to please those people because he is not, at his core, an ideologue. He is very much a problem-solver. Someone who can objectively evaluate the various arguments and sides of an issue and find some reasonable middle ground where everyone gets to claim a little victory and everyone has to settle for a little defeat.

I think, in a particularly polarized and volatile political climate, that might not be a bad way to go. Otherwise, we're going to have gridlock and 4 more years of kicking the can down the road on the budget, on all the mounting problems, on foreign policy, on domestic policy... on everything under the sun that can be politically divisive.

Personally, I would rather have a strong Constitutional Conservative like Ted Cruz as president.... but that's MY preference. I will continue to support Cruz and work to help him win the party nomination but if Trump pulls it off instead, then I will support him in the general and be content with my choice. It's definitely not the worst thing that could happen.... that would be President Bernie Sanders, imho.

Interesting. I'm getting a better handle on this. I do think there are many (I don't know the percentage) who are expecting him to stay on a conservative course, which is nothing more than wishful thinking. They'd be in for some serious disappointments if he won.
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[Mac1958]

I think I understand that, and I can't blame anyone who is paying attention for being frustrated and angry.

And worse, it's possible that my reaction to my own frustrations with politics have caused me to mentally check out in many ways. Stipulated. If I didn't have to follow politics and politicians for my profession I'd probably ignore the whole fucking thing, seriously.

To put this as succinctly as I can, it just seems to me that the GOP has allowed itself to express its frustrations in unhealthy ways - purity tests, pledges, general knee-jerking, absolutism. A real line has been crossed when anyone running for office who says they will work with the other side is shunned like this.

I sure as hell don't have an answer, but it does seem to me that the current source of energy within the party is causing it more harm than good.
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Except Trump is saying he can work with the other side of the aisle and leading the GOP polls while saying it...and yet YOU shun him and belittle his supporters.

Yep, I've seen that, and it's one of the reasons this stuff isn't making sense.

One Trump supporter I've talked to here says that he's pretty sure that, when Trump worked with the Democrats, his style & skills will help him consistently win with conservative issues.

Would you agree with that? I don't think it can be done without significant compromise. That's what deal-making is.
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Conservatism as a philosophy is, and always has been, the way to go. This is what Reagan understood, and in fact, redefined Conservatism with for his time. It is a way of life... a way of problem solving by using time-tested and common-sense solutions. It's totally NOT about an ideology. It's actually the antithesis of radical ideology and seeks to find more reasonable solutions which resolve issues to some degree on both sides of the argument.

Laugh at the personality of Trump all you like, he can certainly be a clown, cartoonish, bombastic... whatever... I think he brings a wherewithal to cut to the chase and work deals to the best of our advantage as Americans. We're not getting screwed if Trump works the deal... I can tell you that....it's gunna be yuge!

But seriously, in the spirit of Conservative philosophy, I think Trump is that and always has been. I have never known of him to be a flaming radical liberal.

I had an interesting conversation with another Trump supporter here, and he surprised me on something. I'd like your take on it.

I pointed out how Trump says he'll make the best deals. Okay, that would be good, mutually-satisfactory agreements to unclog the toilet. But that would mean that he'd be giving up things too. He won't be able to make big deals without big concessions.

The poster agreed, and even offered examples of giving up one issue (say, a higher minimum wage) to get another (say, air-tight border security).

That would necessarily mean not having a top-to-bottom conservative agenda win the day. How would you feel about that - do you think that poster represents the opinions of most Trump supporters?
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Whatever it takes...

I'm not sure what that means. Do you mean "whatever it takes" to unclog the D.C. toilet, or something else?

Unclogging the toilet would require deal-making and compromise, yes?
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[Missourian]

Interesting. I'm getting a better handle on this. I do think there are many (I don't know the percentage) who are expecting him to stay on a conservative course, which is nothing more than wishful thinking. They'd be in for some serious disappointments if he won.
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I may be wrong about this, but I truly believe very little in the political spectrum that we argue about is firmly held belief.

How many times have we seen one side be firmly against something that just four years before, when their guy wanted it, they were rabidly in favor of...and vice versa.

Here's an example. The Dems were doves when Bush was in charge. Remember all that hubbub about the evils of nation building and deposing Saddam? But when their guy drew a red line that when crossed meant getting involved in Syria's civil war...suddenly they were fiercely arguing for it. And many Republicans were just as fiercely lobbying against it...not because they didn't want to see Assad deposed, but only because it made Obama look bad.

Securing the border and strictly limiting a path to citizenship for illegal aliens is different. Republicans, not Democrats, torpedoed Bush's push for amnesty based immigration reform. I think it is important enough for most to back off some less firmly held beliefs, like living wages for example.

I totally agree that Trump is much more of a problem solver than an ideologue...but I think that is exactly what we need...a little more problem solving and a lot less rhetoric.

 

[Mac1958]

Interesting. I'm getting a better handle on this. I do think there are many (I don't know the percentage) who are expecting him to stay on a conservative course, which is nothing more than wishful thinking. They'd be in for some serious disappointments if he won.
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I may be wrong about this, but I truly believe very little in the political spectrum that we argue about is firmly held belief.

How many times have we seen one side be firmly against something that just four years before, when their guy wanted it, they were rabidly in favor of...and vice versa.

Here's an example. The Dems were doves when Bush was in charge. Remember all that hubbub about the evils of nation building and deposing Saddam? But when their guy drew a red line that when crossed meant getting involved in Syria's civil war...suddenly they were fiercely arguing for it. And many Republicans were just as fiercely lobbying against it...not because they didn't want to see Assad deposed, but only because it made Obama look bad.

Securing the border and strictly limiting a path to citizenship for illegal aliens is different. Republicans, not Democrats, torpedoed Bush's push for amnesty based immigration reform. I think it is important enough for most to back off some less firmly held beliefs, like living wages for example.

Holy shit, you nearly made me fall out of my chair.

This is an issue that has fascinated me for a LONG time. How much of this political rhetoric is real, and how much of it is nothing more than political positioning? And I mean from BOTH sides. I often feel like it's all a big game, just for fun, and no one told me. The intellectual dishonesty from partisans is so freakin' obvious.

If Trump were elected (holy crap) but was able to make real deals that could satisfy both parties and unclog the toilet, I can see that attraction. What we're getting from everyone else is some notion that they'll somehow be able to maul the other side into complete and permanent legislative & ideological capitulation.
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