Black Male Achievement: Cause Not Only Poverty

[Annie]

Culture seems to be playing a large part:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/education/09gap.html?_r=2&hpw

November 9, 2010
Proficiency of Black Students Is Found to Be Far Lower Than Expected
By TRIP GABRIEL

An achievement gap separating black from white students has long been documented — a social divide extremely vexing to policy makers and the target of one blast of school reform after another.

But a new report focusing on black males suggests that the picture is even bleaker than generally known.

Only 12 percent of black fourth-grade boys are proficient in reading, compared with 38 percent of white boys, and only 12 percent of black eighth-grade boys are proficient in math, compared with 44 percent of white boys.

Poverty alone does not seem to explain the differences: poor white boys do just as well as African-American boys who do not live in poverty, measured by whether they qualify for subsidized school lunches.

The data was distilled from highly respected national math and reading tests, known as the National Assessment for Educational Progress, which are given to students in fourth and eighth grades, most recently in 2009. The report, “A Call for Change,” is to be released Tuesday by the Council of the Great City Schools, an advocacy group for urban public schools.

Although the outlines of the problem and many specifics have been previously reported, the group hopes that including so much of what it calls “jaw-dropping data” in one place will spark a new sense of national urgency.

“What this clearly shows is that black males who are not eligible for free and reduced-price lunch are doing no better than white males who are poor,” said Michael Casserly, executive director of the council...

Note that the Times is careful to not underestimate the fact that blacks have higher poverty rates and infant mortality rates. What is very troubling is that this report does seem to give a glimmer to what happens to black males in universities and why so few get to that point in the educational system, regardless of socioeconomic factors.

Black females do not have the same pull down of grades, when socioeconomic factors are considered. Thus any 'genetic arguments' seem to be a non-starter, (got that Storm Front brigade?)

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Culture seems to be playing a large part:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/education/09gap.html?_r=2&hpw

November 9, 2010
Proficiency of Black Students Is Found to Be Far Lower Than Expected
By TRIP GABRIEL

An achievement gap separating black from white students has long been documented — a social divide extremely vexing to policy makers and the target of one blast of school reform after another.

But a new report focusing on black males suggests that the picture is even bleaker than generally known.

Only 12 percent of black fourth-grade boys are proficient in reading, compared with 38 percent of white boys, and only 12 percent of black eighth-grade boys are proficient in math, compared with 44 percent of white boys.

Poverty alone does not seem to explain the differences: poor white boys do just as well as African-American boys who do not live in poverty, measured by whether they qualify for subsidized school lunches.

The data was distilled from highly respected national math and reading tests, known as the National Assessment for Educational Progress, which are given to students in fourth and eighth grades, most recently in 2009. The report, “A Call for Change,” is to be released Tuesday by the Council of the Great City Schools, an advocacy group for urban public schools.

Although the outlines of the problem and many specifics have been previously reported, the group hopes that including so much of what it calls “jaw-dropping data” in one place will spark a new sense of national urgency.

“What this clearly shows is that black males who are not eligible for free and reduced-price lunch are doing no better than white males who are poor,” said Michael Casserly, executive director of the council...

Note that the Times is careful to not underestimate the fact that blacks have higher poverty rates and infant mortality rates. What is very troubling is that this report does seem to give a glimmer to what happens to black males in universities and why so few get to that point in the educational system, regardless of socioeconomic factors.

Black females do not have the same pull down of grades, when socioeconomic factors are considered. Thus any 'genetic arguments' seem to be a non-starter, (got that Storm Front brigade?)

Well...we better spend some more money!
Maybe the teachers aren't paid enough, and they need more computers!
I think we should paint the walls of the school a different color...let's try that too.
Maybe their parents aren't getting enough food stamps, housing assistance and free healthcare. Maybe we should expand affirmative action and change the grade scale so that they look smarter on paper.

Or maybe we should realize that there is a systematic, crushing problem in black culture that continues to blow any chance of success among their children and no matter how much money we throw at the problem - it will continue until the culture changes.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

BTW...there is an acronym that white kids say about black students in colleges, around here at least.
O.B.T...."On Black Time"...black students, especially males, arrive to class late and leave early.

 

[Ravi]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything in the article about black females...where are you getting your information on them?

 

[Annie]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything in the article about black females...where are you getting your information on them?

Statistics. Black females are just behind white females in college graduation rates. White males significantly behind black females, black males way down there.

 

[Annie]

Culture seems to be playing a large part:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/education/09gap.html?_r=2&hpw

November 9, 2010
Proficiency of Black Students Is Found to Be Far Lower Than Expected
By TRIP GABRIEL

An achievement gap separating black from white students has long been documented — a social divide extremely vexing to policy makers and the target of one blast of school reform after another.

But a new report focusing on black males suggests that the picture is even bleaker than generally known.

Only 12 percent of black fourth-grade boys are proficient in reading, compared with 38 percent of white boys, and only 12 percent of black eighth-grade boys are proficient in math, compared with 44 percent of white boys.

Poverty alone does not seem to explain the differences: poor white boys do just as well as African-American boys who do not live in poverty, measured by whether they qualify for subsidized school lunches.

The data was distilled from highly respected national math and reading tests, known as the National Assessment for Educational Progress, which are given to students in fourth and eighth grades, most recently in 2009. The report, “A Call for Change,” is to be released Tuesday by the Council of the Great City Schools, an advocacy group for urban public schools.

Although the outlines of the problem and many specifics have been previously reported, the group hopes that including so much of what it calls “jaw-dropping data” in one place will spark a new sense of national urgency.

“What this clearly shows is that black males who are not eligible for free and reduced-price lunch are doing no better than white males who are poor,” said Michael Casserly, executive director of the council...

Note that the Times is careful to not underestimate the fact that blacks have higher poverty rates and infant mortality rates. What is very troubling is that this report does seem to give a glimmer to what happens to black males in universities and why so few get to that point in the educational system, regardless of socioeconomic factors.

Black females do not have the same pull down of grades, when socioeconomic factors are considered. Thus any 'genetic arguments' seem to be a non-starter, (got that Storm Front brigade?)

Well...we better spend some more money!
Maybe the teachers aren't paid enough, and they need more computers!
I think we should paint the walls of the school a different color...let's try that too.
Maybe their parents aren't getting enough food stamps, housing assistance and free healthcare. Maybe we should expand affirmative action and change the grade scale so that they look smarter on paper.

Or maybe we should realize that there is a systematic, crushing problem in black culture that continues to blow any chance of success among their children and no matter how much money we throw at the problem - it will continue until the culture changes.

Bill Cosby was saying the same years ago and was vilified for it.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Culture seems to be playing a large part:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/education/09gap.html?_r=2&hpw



Note that the Times is careful to not underestimate the fact that blacks have higher poverty rates and infant mortality rates. What is very troubling is that this report does seem to give a glimmer to what happens to black males in universities and why so few get to that point in the educational system, regardless of socioeconomic factors.

Black females do not have the same pull down of grades, when socioeconomic factors are considered. Thus any 'genetic arguments' seem to be a non-starter, (got that Storm Front brigade?)

Well...we better spend some more money!
Maybe the teachers aren't paid enough, and they need more computers!
I think we should paint the walls of the school a different color...let's try that too.
Maybe their parents aren't getting enough food stamps, housing assistance and free healthcare. Maybe we should expand affirmative action and change the grade scale so that they look smarter on paper.

Or maybe we should realize that there is a systematic, crushing problem in black culture that continues to blow any chance of success among their children and no matter how much money we throw at the problem - it will continue until the culture changes.

Bill Cosby was saying the same years ago and was vilified for it.

You bet.
Back people are sensitive about giving up their position of getting free stuff.
Think about this..
You can spend 4 years of your young life - where EVERYTHING is paid for 100%. Your food, clothing, and shelter - all paid for by the government. All you have to do is make appearances a few times a day in a classroom. You don't have to maintain good grades like white kids do - because colleges absolutely will NOT kick minorities out of their school...no way no how.

So from the get-go - the black students are set up to fail. Money/Shelter/Food/Clothing - all given to them for free regardless of their performance.
I guarantee you that white kids would be doing equally as bad if they had no fear of losing their grants.

 

[topspin]

duhh!!! thug life
not all, but way too many. With way less % having fathers at home to fend off the thugs. It's a serious problem that has to be solved from within.

On a side note, black middle school kids have made serious improvements since Obama took office.

 

[American Horse]

" - Only 12 percent of black fourth-grade boys are proficient in reading, compared with 38 percent of white boys, and only 12 percent of black eighth-grade boys are proficient in math, compared with 44 percent of white boys.

Poverty alone does not seem to explain the differences: poor white boys do just as well as African-American boys who do not live in poverty, measured by whether they qualify for subsidized school lunches. - "

I was shocked to see the institutional racism in the South when I lived in NC between 1961 and 1964 as a young man in the US Marine Corps. But as I travel to and from the North to the South in recent years I find the southern blacks are more universally assimilated than they are in the North. I deduce that from the jobs I see them doing and the level of their english language acculteration; they do not reject the "king's english" as do the northern blacks who often substitute a form of pidgen english. There is a deliberateness to that rejection; using the word "axe" for the common word to "ask;" consider that that even defies a rational system of spelling and writing let alone speaking clearly. This is not isolated but almost universal, and goes even further with an inner city dialect called "ebonics"

Their choice of a pidgen english has not benefitted them in fitting in; in fact it tends to seperate them from the greater society. Seperating oneself from the over-arching acceptable medium of communications is a self crippling decision; even more so to the next generation which has become deeply imbedded in the lexicon, and for males which lack any suitable male role models because of the destruction of the family resulting from failed poverty programs.

Blacks in the South seem to oftentimes, or more often than not have even better english speaking skills than many of their white brethren. It is a fact that in the South they do not seperate themselves into seperate racial groups as we find so much in the North, as witnessed by the experience I always have when walking into our university "Union Building," seeing the black students grouping themselves almost exclusively by themselves.

There has been no effort to segregate, the races, in fact every effort has been made to force integration. Only recently has bussing been discontinued here in Indianapolis and Louisvilly, Ky schools which was used for decades to enforce a balanced racial mixture.

 

[Ravi]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything in the article about black females...where are you getting your information on them?

Statistics. Black females are just behind white females in college graduation rates. White males significantly behind black females, black males way down there.

Okay.

I heard an interesting discussion that pointed out a big problem in poor (and in this case black) families is that the mothers don't have an extensive vocabulary with which to speak to their kids and/or they have not embraced all the little get ahead tricks that people that in the burbs embrace (black and white toys for infants, etc).

Not sure how that fits in with the boy vs. girl learning curve though.

I find it rather shocking that the white literacy level is also pretty low by fourth grade.

 

[strollingbones]

am i the only one that finds it shocking that less than half of any group is ready for higher education....reading levels in the 4th grade are that low...i have many issues with public education ...that began when i was a sex ed teacher in the mid 70's....you have a fat middle level...principals etc...that have no clue...and parents who just want the good grades regardless if there is any reality to the grades...

what happen to parents taking pride in their kids being bright and ready to start school? my son knew his colors...his basic numbers...his alph. etc by the time he started school...in all honesty i found the biggest block to good education to be teachers.

 

[strollingbones]

of course you have to take into account...we drug our wee ones at an alarming rate....i remember when a kid was referred to as "all boy" that meant the little mal was a total hand full who was on "go" all the time....oddly instead of drugging them....most parents opted to toss them outside for the day...the rule at my house...was....if it aint broken or bleeding....i dont want you in till lunch...i dont entertain kids....i find they can do that themselves....i figured it the kid knows how to read ...he can do what he wants in the world....granted we didnt have the game videos and all....my son learned to spell from king's quest..an anicent computer game...and we had mario brothers but no one did this 24/7

 

[American Horse]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything in the article about black females...where are you getting your information on them?

Statistics. Black females are just behind white females in college graduation rates. White males significantly behind black females, black males way down there.

Okay.

I heard an interesting discussion that pointed out a big problem in poor (and in this case black) families is that the mothers don't have an extensive vocabulary with which to speak to their kids and/or they have not embraced all the little get ahead tricks that people that in the burbs embrace (black and white toys for infants, etc).

Not sure how that fits in with the boy vs. girl learning curve though.

I find it rather shocking that the white literacy level is also pretty low by fourth grade.

I was born into a family that would've been classified so poor as to be at the very bottom of the poverty scale by today's standards.

My mom took the time, since my dad was gone all day until late in the evening either working or seeking future work, ... took the time to teach me words sounded out in the phonetic method of reading - reading by sounds. She was only an 8th grade school graduate, and same for my dad. My sisters taught me to count to 100, a skill I was sure to display to any visitor who came to our home.

In junior high school, to be sure that I would have the best command of the english language, I embarked on 3 years of Latin, as a foreign language. I could've taken French, German, or Spanish, but I felt that Latin would best prepare me to command the language we are all immersed in.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

It does not seem surprising, but I think this is a problem of repeating negative feedback loops and social patterns. This study might have been more useful taking into account which schools each group goes to, rather than only economic class. It is generally known that, for the most part, blacks attend lower quality schools than whites, regardless of class. Majority-black schools have a harder time attracting better teachers, for one. It is also known that poor whites usually are usually more rural-based, while poor blacks are more urban-based, which imply different types of problems. Of course there's cultural problems too, but there is a causality issue here that is hard to measure - is it that Blacks have higher mortality/single-parenthood rate/muder rate/etc because they do worse, or do they do worse because of those things? It's a complex problem that I'm happy the original poster does not chalk up to some genetic inferiority as some others here try to do.

For example, simple answers can't explain why all those indicators are lower for blacks, but the only guy at the school I attended in the States who got into Harvard was black. Sure, exceptions to the rule, but really I think the most useful thing to do is to be open to different explanations and realize the complexity of the issue.

 

[IanC]

all the points in the article are old news. culture and ability are intertwined. lower black academic potential, reinforced by counter productive black culture, excused by well meaning liberal ideology can only lead to more of the same results.a doctor with an obese, smoking, non-exercising patient with a history of high blood pressure, diabetes and familial heart disease does not tell that patient that he has the same chance of a heart attack as anyone else. the doctor honestly explains the risks and suggests ways to ameliorate those risks. the patient will still be more likely to fall ill, but at least they will be informed with a chance for a better life.we should stop sugar coating the real academic and social risks that reality has dealt the black race. at least then they wouldn't be confused by the double talk and double standards that proclaim that their abilities and culture are as equally successful as any other, and lead to the conclusion that only racism can explain the glaring disparities of achievement.

 

[IanC]

It does not seem surprising, but I think this is a problem of repeating negative feedback loops and social patterns. This study might have been more useful taking into account which schools each group goes to, rather than only economic class. It is generally known that, for the most part, blacks attend lower quality schools than whites, regardless of class. Majority-black schools have a harder time attracting better teachers, for one. It is also known that poor whites usually are usually more rural-based, while poor blacks are more urban-based, which imply different types of problems. Of course there's cultural problems too, but there is a causality issue here that is hard to measure - is it that Blacks have higher mortality/single-parenthood rate/muder rate/etc because they do worse, or do they do worse because of those things? It's a complex problem that I'm happy the original poster does not chalk up to some genetic inferiority as some others here try to do.

For example, simple answers can't explain why all those indicators are lower for blacks, but the only guy at the school I attended in the States who got into Harvard was black. Sure, exceptions to the rule, but really I think the most useful thing to do is to be open to different explanations and realize the complexity of the issue.

is the problem complex? of course!

but by your reasoning we can never find the reasons for disparity because disparity exists. the Coleman Reports, Ogbu's study on Shaker Heights and other findings make it pretty clear that the students affect the school at least as strongly as the reverse. blacks need to take control and responsibility of their education and stop thinking that someone else can or will do it for them.

 

[Tank]

In l950, American schools were among the best in the world. However, vocal elements within our society demanded that the public schools take on a social engineering role as well as an educational one. Violent disruptions of American education were ordered by the Supreme Court for the purpose of breaking down racial barriers. For 30 years, American schools have diverted enormous resources into forced integration, quotas, and bussing operations. (Few people realize how expensive bussing is. Annual cost may run into tens of billions of dollars. In l990 California alone was spending $500 million per year on integration. Many school districts spend a quarter or more of their budgets on transportation. In Milwaukee alone and in a single school year, 30,000 staff hours were diverted into calculating the race of students to attend the various schools.) The results? Today's students rank at the very bottom worldwide in science and math, some 40% of American adults are functionally illiterate, and standardized test scores have declined steadily for both Whites and Blacks. Today the average White still scores 200 points higher on the combined SAT than the average Black. Americans spend more on education than any other country in the world and have the worst results. Massive White flight to escape racial zoning has reduced the tax base of every major American city. In l983, after nearly two generations of racial experimentation to promote equality, the research arm of the Dept. of Education could not produce a single study that showed Black children were learning appreciably better after desegregation.

 

[IanC]

In l950, American schools were among the best in the world. However, vocal elements within our society demanded that the public schools take on a social engineering role as well as an educational one. Violent disruptions of American education were ordered by the Supreme Court for the purpose of breaking down racial barriers. For 30 years, American schools have diverted enormous resources into forced integration, quotas, and bussing operations. (Few people realize how expensive bussing is. Annual cost may run into tens of billions of dollars. In l990 California alone was spending $500 million per year on integration. Many school districts spend a quarter or more of their budgets on transportation. In Milwaukee alone and in a single school year, 30,000 staff hours were diverted into calculating the race of students to attend the various schools.) The results? Today's students rank at the very bottom worldwide in science and math, some 40% of American adults are functionally illiterate, and standardized test scores have declined steadily for both Whites and Blacks. Today the average White still scores 200 points higher on the combined SAT than the average Black. Americans spend more on education than any other country in the world and have the worst results. Massive White flight to escape racial zoning has reduced the tax base of every major American city. In l983, after nearly two generations of racial experimentation to promote equality, the research arm of the Dept. of Education could not produce a single study that showed Black children were learning appreciably better after desegregation.

I think you may be slightly incorrect. black students do marginally better in schools where they are in small enough numbers that they don't disrupt the overall school culture. once they make up a critical mass the white parents refuse to expose their children to social pathology and white flight ensues. then the school becomes 'bad' and is considered the reason for black underperformance.

 

[IanC]

...
For example, simple answers can't explain why all those indicators are lower for blacks, but the only guy at the school I attended in the States who got into Harvard was black. Sure, exceptions to the rule, but really I think the most useful thing to do is to be open to different explanations and realize the complexity of the issue.

I read an article on SATs in the Journal of Blacks in Higer Education that broke down the racial numbers. A school like MIT demands a score of 1400 to even be considered if you are white or asian. but it accepts more blacks every year than the TOTAL number of blacks that score that high in the USA! where do universities like Harvard and Columbia get their students? obviously there is a drastically lower standard for blacks so you shouldn't be quite so impressed with your black friend who got accepted into Harvard.

 

[Wicked Jester]

am i the only one that finds it shocking that less than half of any group is ready for higher education....reading levels in the 4th grade are that low...i have many issues with public education ...that began when i was a sex ed teacher in the mid 70's....you have a fat middle level...principals etc...that have no clue...and parents who just want the good grades regardless if there is any reality to the grades...

what happen to parents taking pride in their kids being bright and ready to start school? my son knew his colors...his basic numbers...his alph. etc by the time he started school...in all honesty i found the biggest block to good education to be teachers.

Bingo!......It all starts in the home. Parenting is the key. Parents taking the reins early on is the key. Parents staying in the teachers faces is the key.

The black community needs to start listening to what Bill Cosby has been trying to say, and stop thinking of him as nothing more than an Uncle Tom sell out.