Bible vs Qur'an, authenticity

[Ahmad]

Hello.

This was prompted to me by people quoting me Bible verses, in their attempt to convince me of some elements. My question is, what evidence is there that the Bible's words, as known today are the actual words of the Prophet Jesus ? Jesus (peace be upon him) lived 2000 years ago. How would one expect, in all pure common sense, that his words are preserved up to this day ? Do you not think that these words are changed, modified, altered, arranged, and put up conveniently, voluntarily, and both with and without that very intent ?

Muhammad (peace be upon him) was given a book by God, The Qur'an. In it, God talks to him. It is the word of God. That was about 1500 years ago. However, the Qur'an was memorized from the beginning, as an obligation to the Muslim community, and it was done as it had to be. From generations to generations, it was memorized, all over the Muslim world, until today, and it continues. This is how we know the Qur'an is authentic, the very same that it was 1500 years ago.

1500 years ago, when Muhammad recited this Qur'an to people, everyone was amazed by such a speech, such words, such extraordinary and beautiful words of light. It is the same today, when someone reads a verse of the Qur'an, or many verses, or a Chapter, or many Chapters; he is overwhelmed by such extraodinary, magnificent and amazing words. This is because it is the word of God Almighty.

"So all the praises and thanks be to God, the Lord of the heavens and the Lord of the earth, and the Lord of the Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists). And His (Alone) is the Majesty in the heavens and the earth, and He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (45:36-37)

"But those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and believe in that which is sent down to Muhammad - for it is the truth from their Lord - He will expiate from them their sins, and will make good their state." (47:1)

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well, considering that Mohammed was illiterate, he couldn't have read any book given to him.

And, there is also the little fact that the Quaran wasn't composed until AFTER Mohammed's death. And, it was done by committee. If 2 or more people heard what was being attributed to Mohammed, it was included in the Quaran.

Sorry..................but writing a "holy book" by committee makes me question it's authenticity.

 

[Ahmad]

No you are wrong. To give: doesn't mean "onto your hands". I said "recited" not "read".

Learnt by heart, from generations to generations. Doesn't need to be written down in a book. But when we want to write it down, we can. We can leave aside a section that only one person knows, that no one else can recite by heart, except him.

 

[ABikerSailor]

No you are wrong. To give: doesn't mean "onto your hands". I said "recited" not "read".

Learnt by heart, from generations to generations. Doesn't need to be written down in a book. But when we want to write it down, we can. We can leave aside a section that only one person knows, that no one else can recite by heart, except him.

Still doesn't change the fact that it was written by committee. I don't trust documents that are written by committees, I spent 20 years in the military and know to avoid things like that.

 

[SavannahMann]

Curiously, the Koran is unique among religious texts. All the other religions, and their texts, basically call on people to live their lives well, and show compassion and love towards their neighbors. Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, Christians, and the rest all talk the same way. Only Islam teaches that it is good to slaughter another group. The Bible says that in the end days, people who have sinned will be punished by God. Buddhist’s believe that reincarnation will see you advance if you have lived your life well, and degraded if you have lived it poorly.

Yet, it is Islam that we are told is the Religion of Peace. Where women are equated to dogs, and Jews are equated to swine. It is curious that this religion of Peace advises and encourages the true believers to lie.

Taqiyya: Deception and Lying in Islam

While Christians are advised that lies are a sin. Lies are in violation of the Ten Commandments, the holiest commandments of all. Yet Islam encourages and allows people to lie, especially to the Infidels. It is not only permissible, but encouraged.

So while other Religious Beliefs call on people to be better, more honorable, and more ethical, Islam calls on the believers to be less honorable. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the beauty of the faith. Because I would find it hard to believe that God would preach Hatred two thousand years after sacrificing his own Son to forgive the Original Sin.

Now, I am the first to admit and acknowledge that Christians through History have done some pretty terrible things. Yet those things were in violation of the teachings, not in compliance. St. Augustine is famed and his beliefs and philosophies regarding the just use of force are the foundation of our World Societies beliefs and standards for a Just War.

I can not go back and change the History of Christianity to become more what I believe it should be. I can acknowledge those mistakes, and do everything possible to insure they are not repeated. But in acknowledging those mistakes, I in no way claim that Islam is a superior belief system. Because frankly, it isn’t. It is anthitical to the common beliefs in every other Religous system in the world. It is heretical to the basic premises of community and compassion. I am proud to say I am an Infidel by the standards of the Koran, and the Beleivers. I am thrilled to say that I do not follow in the footsteps of a child rapist. I may have faced some tough points in my life, questions of faith, and difficulties in many forms. Yet never has the Religion of Peace been beautiful. It is instead, an abomination in my beliefs, and I suspect more closely associated with a Cult, than a true Religous system.

 

[irosie91]

Well, considering that Mohammed was illiterate, he couldn't have read any book given to him.

And, there is also the little fact that the Quaran wasn't composed until AFTER Mohammed's death. And, it was done by committee. If 2 or more people heard what was being attributed to Mohammed, it was included in the Quaran.

Sorry..................but writing a "holy book" by committee makes me question it's authenticity.

what's-his-name has a sense of humor-------he gave a book to an illiterate

 

[irosie91]

No you are wrong. To give: doesn't mean "onto your hands". I said "recited" not "read".

Learnt by heart, from generations to generations. Doesn't need to be written down in a book. But when we want to write it down, we can. We can leave aside a section that only one person knows, that no one else can recite by heart, except him.

what is the difference in Arabic between the words "recited" and "read"?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Hello.

This was prompted to me by people quoting me Bible verses, in their attempt to convince me of some elements. My question is, what evidence is there that the Bible's words, as known today are the actual words of the Prophet Jesus ? Jesus (peace be upon him) lived 2000 years ago. How would one expect, in all pure common sense, that his words are preserved up to this day ? Do you not think that these words are changed, modified, altered, arranged, and put up conveniently, voluntarily, and both with and without that very intent ?

Muhammad (peace be upon him) was given a book by God, The Qur'an. In it, God talks to him. It is the word of God. That was about 1500 years ago. However, the Qur'an was memorized from the beginning, as an obligation to the Muslim community, and it was done as it had to be. From generations to generations, it was memorized, all over the Muslim world, until today, and it continues. This is how we know the Qur'an is authentic, the very same that it was 1500 years ago.

1500 years ago, when Muhammad recited this Qur'an to people, everyone was amazed by such a speech, such words, such extraordinary and beautiful words of light. It is the same today, when someone reads a verse of the Qur'an, or many verses, or a Chapter, or many Chapters; he is overwhelmed by such extraodinary, magnificent and amazing words. This is because it is the word of God Almighty.

"So all the praises and thanks be to God, the Lord of the heavens and the Lord of the earth, and the Lord of the Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists). And His (Alone) is the Majesty in the heavens and the earth, and He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (45:36-37)

"But those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and believe in that which is sent down to Muhammad - for it is the truth from their Lord - He will expiate from them their sins, and will make good their state." (47:1)

you shit for brains, the Quran was taking from the bible

 

[harmonica]

it's all fake..there is no god

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hello.

This was prompted to me by people quoting me Bible verses, in their attempt to convince me of some elements. My question is, what evidence is there that the Bible's words, as known today are the actual words of the Prophet Jesus ? Jesus (peace be upon him) lived 2000 years ago. How would one expect, in all pure common sense, that his words are preserved up to this day ? Do you not think that these words are changed, modified, altered, arranged, and put up conveniently, voluntarily, and both with and without that very intent ?

Muhammad (peace be upon him) was given a book by God, The Qur'an. In it, God talks to him. It is the word of God. That was about 1500 years ago. However, the Qur'an was memorized from the beginning, as an obligation to the Muslim community, and it was done as it had to be. From generations to generations, it was memorized, all over the Muslim world, until today, and it continues. This is how we know the Qur'an is authentic, the very same that it was 1500 years ago.

1500 years ago, when Muhammad recited this Qur'an to people, everyone was amazed by such a speech, such words, such extraordinary and beautiful words of light. It is the same today, when someone reads a verse of the Qur'an, or many verses, or a Chapter, or many Chapters; he is overwhelmed by such extraodinary, magnificent and amazing words. This is because it is the word of God Almighty.

"So all the praises and thanks be to God, the Lord of the heavens and the Lord of the earth, and the Lord of the Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists). And His (Alone) is the Majesty in the heavens and the earth, and He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (45:36-37)

"But those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and believe in that which is sent down to Muhammad - for it is the truth from their Lord - He will expiate from them their sins, and will make good their state." (47:1)

you shit for brains, the Quran was taking from the bible

Wrong. It wasn't taken from the Bible.

https://www.quora.com/According-to-Islam-when-was-the-first-Quran-written


What is recorded in the Quran is what Mohammed recited or at least what is claimed he recited. Then some 20 years after the death of Mohammed so many people who had memorized what Mohammed had recited had been killed in the battles that Muslims fought, that the third caliph Othman decided to compile a Quran. He appointed people to find any verses that had been written down and what people had memorized and put them together in a book that was called the Quran. After he had compiled the Quran he had all other written verses burnt. It is recorded in the Hadiths that some people were not very happy about this as the way they had memorized some verses differed from what was recorded in the Quran. From very early Quran fragments found in Sana'a in 1972 it can be shown that earlier Quran verses were erased and replaced with Othman's version of the Quran. It is claimed that we today have this Othman version of the Quran even though not one of the originals Qurans he had written and distributed exists any longer.

So when was the Quran made? Most probably some 20 to 30 years after the death of Mohammed by the writers brought together by Othman. Are the Qurans today the same as what Othman compiled, nobody knows as we have no originals left. More important those is the fact that we have proof that early versions of the Quran were changed to comply with Othman's version of the Quran.

 

[alang1216]

My question is, what evidence is there that the Bible's words, as known today are the actual words of the Prophet Jesus ? Jesus (peace be upon him) lived 2000 years ago. How would one expect, in all pure common sense, that his words are preserved up to this day ? Do you not think that these words are changed, modified, altered, arranged, and put up conveniently, voluntarily, and both with and without that very intent ?

Why do you think the oral history that became the Bible is any less accurate than the oral history that became the Quran?

 

[irosie91]

My question is, what evidence is there that the Bible's words, as known today are the actual words of the Prophet Jesus ? Jesus (peace be upon him) lived 2000 years ago. How would one expect, in all pure common sense, that his words are preserved up to this day ? Do you not think that these words are changed, modified, altered, arranged, and put up conveniently, voluntarily, and both with and without that very intent ?

Why do you think the oral history that became the Bible is any less accurate than the oral history that became the Quran?

silly-----HE KNOWS----because he has heard this BS in the form of the
weekly KHUTBAH JUMAAAT all his life. Imams are the BEST STAND UP COMEDIANS. (PS----try attending some time----if you are not
muslim, be prepared to learn that you are a PERVERSE LIAR)

 

[Ahmad]

Curiously, the Koran is unique among religious texts. All the other religions, and their texts, basically call on people to live their lives well, and show compassion and love towards their neighbors. Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, Christians, and the rest all talk the same way. Only Islam teaches that it is good to slaughter another group. The Bible says that in the end days, people who have sinned will be punished by God. Buddhist’s believe that reincarnation will see you advance if you have lived your life well, and degraded if you have lived it poorly.

Yet, it is Islam that we are told is the Religion of Peace. Where women are equated to dogs, and Jews are equated to swine. It is curious that this religion of Peace advises and encourages the true believers to lie.

Taqiyya: Deception and Lying in Islam

While Christians are advised that lies are a sin. Lies are in violation of the Ten Commandments, the holiest commandments of all. Yet Islam encourages and allows people to lie, especially to the Infidels. It is not only permissible, but encouraged.

So while other Religious Beliefs call on people to be better, more honorable, and more ethical, Islam calls on the believers to be less honorable. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the beauty of the faith. Because I would find it hard to believe that God would preach Hatred two thousand years after sacrificing his own Son to forgive the Original Sin.

Now, I am the first to admit and acknowledge that Christians through History have done some pretty terrible things. Yet those things were in violation of the teachings, not in compliance. St. Augustine is famed and his beliefs and philosophies regarding the just use of force are the foundation of our World Societies beliefs and standards for a Just War.

I can not go back and change the History of Christianity to become more what I believe it should be. I can acknowledge those mistakes, and do everything possible to insure they are not repeated. But in acknowledging those mistakes, I in no way claim that Islam is a superior belief system. Because frankly, it isn’t. It is anthitical to the common beliefs in every other Religous system in the world. It is heretical to the basic premises of community and compassion. I am proud to say I am an Infidel by the standards of the Koran, and the Beleivers. I am thrilled to say that I do not follow in the footsteps of a child rapist. I may have faced some tough points in my life, questions of faith, and difficulties in many forms. Yet never has the Religion of Peace been beautiful. It is instead, an abomination in my beliefs, and I suspect more closely associated with a Cult, than a true Religous system.

What are you talking about ? The Qur'an calls to love of God and to seeking God's love:


"Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of God and in His Messenger (Muhammad)] and work deeds of righteousness, the Most Gracious (Allah)
will bestow love." (19:96)

"follow the path of those who turn to Me in love" (31:15)

Muhammad (peace be upon him) had many wives, not just one. He had 11 wives and two servants (sexual relations with one's female servants were not considered adultery). At some point, only one of his wives was never married before. That is the one you call a child. She was his best friend's daughter. There is a teaching in it. Ideally -I insist, ideally, not commonly, not ordinarily, not ever- boys and girls must be married early to each other in order to bring strength and harmony to the community. When Muhammad first married, he was 25, and he married a lady that was 15 years older than him (she was 40, and it is her who proposed to him); and he never married another woman as long as she was alive. So you are talking lies and hate. That's all. Love is blind, hate also.

You know that David was a warrior as well as Solomon, and other biblical prophets, and other righteous figures (Alexander, among others) and it does not bother you. You know that Moses taught an eye for an eye, (that's how killers are killed, and thieves get their hands cut and on and on) but it does not bother you. The US sent 2 nuclear bombs on Japan, when has it ever been considered evil by anyone ? If anything, American ways ended up being criticized, that's all, if anything; but no one ever said The US administration and the American constitution are evil. Again, love is blind, but hate also.

 

[Ahmad]

Well, considering that Mohammed was illiterate, he couldn't have read any book given to him.

And, there is also the little fact that the Quaran wasn't composed until AFTER Mohammed's death. And, it was done by committee. If 2 or more people heard what was being attributed to Mohammed, it was included in the Quaran.

Sorry..................but writing a "holy book" by committee makes me question it's authenticity.

what's-his-name has a sense of humor-------he gave a book to an illiterate

Please reply to my question.

 

[irosie91]

Curiously, the Koran is unique among religious texts. All the other religions, and their texts, basically call on people to live their lives well, and show compassion and love towards their neighbors. Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, Christians, and the rest all talk the same way. Only Islam teaches that it is good to slaughter another group. The Bible says that in the end days, people who have sinned will be punished by God. Buddhist’s believe that reincarnation will see you advance if you have lived your life well, and degraded if you have lived it poorly.

Yet, it is Islam that we are told is the Religion of Peace. Where women are equated to dogs, and Jews are equated to swine. It is curious that this religion of Peace advises and encourages the true believers to lie.

Taqiyya: Deception and Lying in Islam

While Christians are advised that lies are a sin. Lies are in violation of the Ten Commandments, the holiest commandments of all. Yet Islam encourages and allows people to lie, especially to the Infidels. It is not only permissible, but encouraged.

So while other Religious Beliefs call on people to be better, more honorable, and more ethical, Islam calls on the believers to be less honorable. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the beauty of the faith. Because I would find it hard to believe that God would preach Hatred two thousand years after sacrificing his own Son to forgive the Original Sin.

Now, I am the first to admit and acknowledge that Christians through History have done some pretty terrible things. Yet those things were in violation of the teachings, not in compliance. St. Augustine is famed and his beliefs and philosophies regarding the just use of force are the foundation of our World Societies beliefs and standards for a Just War.

I can not go back and change the History of Christianity to become more what I believe it should be. I can acknowledge those mistakes, and do everything possible to insure they are not repeated. But in acknowledging those mistakes, I in no way claim that Islam is a superior belief system. Because frankly, it isn’t. It is anthitical to the common beliefs in every other Religous system in the world. It is heretical to the basic premises of community and compassion. I am proud to say I am an Infidel by the standards of the Koran, and the Beleivers. I am thrilled to say that I do not follow in the footsteps of a child rapist. I may have faced some tough points in my life, questions of faith, and difficulties in many forms. Yet never has the Religion of Peace been beautiful. It is instead, an abomination in my beliefs, and I suspect more closely associated with a Cult, than a true Religous system.

What are you talking about ? The Qur'an calls to love of God and to seeking God's love:


"Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of God and in His Messenger (Muhammad)] and work deeds of righteousness, the Most Gracious (Allah)
will bestow love." (19:96)

"follow the path of those who turn to Me in love" (31:15)

Muhammad (peace be upon him) had many wives, not just one. He had 11 wives and two servants (sexual relations with one's female servants were not considered adultery). At some point, only one of his wives was never married before. That is the one you call a child. She was his best friend's daughter. There is a teaching in it. Ideally -I insist, ideally, not commonly, not ordinarily, not ever- boys and girls must be married early to each other in order to bring strength and harmony to the community. When Muhammad first married, he was 25, and he married a lady that was 15 years older than him (she was 40, and it is her who proposed to him); and he never married another woman as long as she was alive. So you are talking lies and hate. That's all. Love is blind, hate also.

You know that David was a warrior as well as Solomon, and other biblical prophets, and other righteous figures (Alexander, among others) and it does not bother you. You know that Moses taught an eye for an eye, (that's how killers are killed, and thieves get their hands cut and on and on) but it does not bother you. The US sent 2 nuclear bombs on Japan, when has it ever been considered evil by anyone ? If anything, American ways ended up being criticized, that's all, if anything; but no one ever said The US administration and the American constitution are evil. Again, love is blind, but hate also.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^sophistry direct to you from the weekly khutbah jumaat feces fling

 

[Ahmad]

No you are wrong. To give: doesn't mean "onto your hands". I said "recited" not "read".

Learnt by heart, from generations to generations. Doesn't need to be written down in a book. But when we want to write it down, we can. We can leave aside a section that only one person knows, that no one else can recite by heart, except him.

what is the difference in Arabic between the words "recited" and "read"?

When I said "recited", I meant "recited", and not "read".
To recite=to read something that is not before your eyes.
To read=to read something that is under you eyes.

 

[fncceo]

If you want authenticity, you go to the source ...

 

[irosie91]

Well, considering that Mohammed was illiterate, he couldn't have read any book given to him.

And, there is also the little fact that the Quaran wasn't composed until AFTER Mohammed's death. And, it was done by committee. If 2 or more people heard what was being attributed to Mohammed, it was included in the Quaran.

Sorry..................but writing a "holy book" by committee makes me question it's authenticity.

what's-his-name has a sense of humor-------he gave a book to an illiterate

Please reply to my question.

your "question" is silly-------the KHARAHAN started out as a scramble
of nonsense and remains so. -----I read it ----after I has already read
the bible (new and old) the odyssey, the iliad, the baghavad gita ,
lots of the classical greek plays, the divine comedy, the Ramayana
and the kama sudtra, Beowulf. Even the least of all that classical
stuff (Beowulf) was better than the kharahan. I had lots of
jingles memorized by age five------' jack be nimble, jack be quick..... '
etc----------memorizing nonsense does not make it less nonsensical

 

[Ahmad]

While Christians are advised that lies are a sin. Lies are in violation of the Ten Commandments, the holiest commandments of all. Yet Islam encourages and allows people to lie, especially to the Infidels. It is not only permissible, but encouraged.

Islam holds it absolutely forbidden to lie. Ask Sharia specialists of the 4 schools: Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi, Hanbali. The mistake you make: applying stuff that was done during the wars between Muhammad's people -during his time- and Muhammad's arch-enemies (be they Jews or polytheists), to the present time. This does not apply to the present time, to that time of the early wars only (and subsequently other wars, later, but nothing like regular context). There is like government shutdown comes special times, but that's not like regular times.

 

[Ahmad]

Hello.

This was prompted to me by people quoting me Bible verses, in their attempt to convince me of some elements. My question is, what evidence is there that the Bible's words, as known today are the actual words of the Prophet Jesus ? Jesus (peace be upon him) lived 2000 years ago. How would one expect, in all pure common sense, that his words are preserved up to this day ? Do you not think that these words are changed, modified, altered, arranged, and put up conveniently, voluntarily, and both with and without that very intent ?

Muhammad (peace be upon him) was given a book by God, The Qur'an. In it, God talks to him. It is the word of God. That was about 1500 years ago. However, the Qur'an was memorized from the beginning, as an obligation to the Muslim community, and it was done as it had to be. From generations to generations, it was memorized, all over the Muslim world, until today, and it continues. This is how we know the Qur'an is authentic, the very same that it was 1500 years ago.

1500 years ago, when Muhammad recited this Qur'an to people, everyone was amazed by such a speech, such words, such extraordinary and beautiful words of light. It is the same today, when someone reads a verse of the Qur'an, or many verses, or a Chapter, or many Chapters; he is overwhelmed by such extraodinary, magnificent and amazing words. This is because it is the word of God Almighty.

"So all the praises and thanks be to God, the Lord of the heavens and the Lord of the earth, and the Lord of the Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists). And His (Alone) is the Majesty in the heavens and the earth, and He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (45:36-37)

"But those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and believe in that which is sent down to Muhammad - for it is the truth from their Lord - He will expiate from them their sins, and will make good their state." (47:1)

you shit for brains, the Quran was taking from the bible

What are you ? High ?