“Between 6,000 and 10,000 churches in the U.S. are dying each year”

[hobelim]

For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

Interesting.. You proclaim the Lords death? duh wha? Until he comes? What then? He puts an end to the insanity?

Let's hope so. Memorial bondage isn't exactly the liberating experience that it's cracked up to be.

BTW, I thought he is risen? You know, not dead...eternal life and all that. Isn't that the good news?

Time for a pop quiz. (relax, it's multiple choice.)

Who would celebrate his torture and death? Who would think that they were saved because Jesus was killed? Who would say, "Jesus is dead! Joy to the world! We're saved, yay! Let us praise the Lord and then solemnly eat him."?


A. A crazy person.

B. A crazy person.

C. A crazy person.

D. All of the above.




Take your time.....







Now stop with the armpit farts already, smarten up and learn your lesson well. It's going to be on the final exam.

 

[Lysistrata]

There are over 24,000 written manuscripts which chronicle the ministry of Jesus Christ. You just dismissed them because of dragons.
It is not just based upon scripture. It is also based on the practices of early Christians, their beliefs which were passed down orally and the fruit produced by Christianity.
I see you want to focus on the negative actions of men. Have you ever made a full objective analysis?
It is easy for you to picture a Pollyanna outcome for a path not taken but the reality is your righteous indignation only exists because of the path that was taken.

Again, I can only suggest you acquaint yourself with the last century or so of academic biblical studies. You might plunge your toe gently into the water with Bishop John Shelby Spongs’ “The Sins of Scripture: Exposing the Bible’s Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love” and if you survive that experience move on to Jacques Berlinerblaue’s “The Secular Bible: Why Nonbelievers must take Religion seriously” or really dive in at the deep end and read Barbara Thiering’s “Jesus the Man: A new interpretation from the Dead Sea Scrolls”

As to ‘the negative actions of man' have you ever asked yourself why a theology focused on a father who tortured his own son on the cross to redeem humanities ‘sins’ has attracted pedophiles through the ages?
Sins he made possible by supposedly granting our species free will and through his omniscience taking that action in the full knowledge of where it would lead.

I love, love, love John Shelby Spong! I once met him in a receiving line years ago. When I told him that he had saved Christianity for me as I had come to think that it was just hogwash, he told me (to paraphrase) that 97 percent of it was, but you had to go for the 3% that has truth.

BTW: I have questions. (1) Why torture and sacrifice your son to yourself as an all-powerful being when you have the power to forgive humans for their "sins" before breakfast? Were there other gods up there who needed to be appeased? (2) This all takes place in the outer reaches of the Roman Empire. What did the Supreme Being do for the other millions of people alive at the time in places like India and China and on other continents?

 

[ding]

Yep.

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

And that has nothing to do with this discussion.

You do realize that the early Christians who believed that the bread and wine were the body and blood of Christ had no scripture to read, right?

"He who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

I don’t think you understand what it means that the early Christians had no scripture to inform their belief that Christ would manifest himself into the bread and wine.

Obviously, they did not have that belief if they knew that failure to discern the Body resulted in a curse.


The command to eat his flesh and drink his blood is a test. Just like the when the law was first given, and just like when Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness.

Your response to it results in either a blessing or a curse, life or death.

Obviously you have failed to discern the body.

Not to worry! You can always pray for a do over or go to confession and then to show God just how sorry you are for your sins you can get down on your knees and worship a lifeless cracker.

The early Christians did believe that the bread and wine was the body and blood of Christ which is why St Paul admonished them not to treat it as food.

That was the point he was making in the scripture you took out of context which is why I posted it in its entirety.

 

[ding]

For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

Interesting.. You proclaim the Lords death? duh wha? Until he comes? What then? He puts an end to the insanity?

Let's hope so. Memorial bondage isn't exactly the liberating experience that it's cracked up to be.

BTW, I thought he is risen? You know, not dead...eternal life and all that. Isn't that the good news?

Time for a pop quiz. (relax, it's multiple choice.)

Who would celebrate his torture and death? Who would think that they were saved because Jesus was killed? Who would say, "Jesus is dead! Joy to the world! We're saved, yay! Let us praise the Lord and then solemnly eat him."?


A. A crazy person.

B. A crazy person.

C. A crazy person.

D. All of the above.




Take your time.....







Now stop with the armpit farts already, smarten up and learn your lesson well. It's going to be on the final exam.

The belief that the bread and wine turn into the body and blood of Christ was established by Jesus. The Apostles did not understand it at first. So he explained it in more detail. Some could not accept it but he never backed away from it.

Early Christians believed it and practiced it. St Paul even admonished them not to treat the host as food.

 

[rightwinger]

They realize Church is senseless

When someone puts a gun to your head, or you have a stroke or heart attack.....
You'll have your "Come to Jesus moment" just like every other God hating atheist.

If Church is so senseless, why is it that at the same time churches are in decline, murder, rape, assault, overall crime, discord and discontent is sharply on the rise?

What you clowns can't figure out is that even if there is no God, the belief in one helps humans to be better humans.

The exceptions are the religious fakes who are the ones killing and dying in the name of their religion. Those fanatics were gonna do so anyway, just like haters gonna hate, regardless. It just became their convenient excuse.

That no atheists in foxholes is BS

Maybe I should believe in a magic creature just doesn’t happen

If you bother to read the statistics violent crime has been on the decline

 

[Taz]

"he was born into this world to testify to the truth." More wishful thinking. No proof.

Not that you would accept because there is no proof you would accept.

I only accept real proof, not your made up kind.

The only proof we have of historical events are written manuscripts. There are over 24,000 of those that recorded the ministry of Jesus.

So you’re saying that Jesus actually walked on water, turned water into wine, ... .

Yep.

You're delusional, you have no proof.

 

[Taz]

I only accept real proof, not your made up kind.

The only proof we have of historical events are written manuscripts. There are over 24,000 of those that recorded the ministry of Jesus.

So you’re saying that Jesus actually walked on water, turned water into wine, ... .

Yep.

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

And that has nothing to do with this discussion.

You do realize that the early Christians who believed that the bread and wine were the body and blood of Christ had no scripture to read, right?

And they could still invent a ritual?

 

[Taz]

So you’re saying that Jesus actually walked on water, turned water into wine, ... .

Yep.

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

And that has nothing to do with this discussion.

You do realize that the early Christians who believed that the bread and wine were the body and blood of Christ had no scripture to read, right?

"He who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

I don’t think you understand what it means that the early Christians had no scripture to inform their belief that Christ would manifest himself into the bread and wine.

It's called a symbolic ritual.

 

[Taz]

So you’re saying that Jesus actually walked on water, turned water into wine, ... .

Yep.

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

And that has nothing to do with this discussion.

You do realize that the early Christians who believed that the bread and wine were the body and blood of Christ had no scripture to read, right?

"He who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

1 Corinthians 11

Correcting an Abuse of the Lord’s Supper
17 In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18 In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval. 20 So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, 21 for when you are eating, some of you go ahead with your own private suppers. As a result, one person remains hungry and another gets drunk. 22 Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God by humiliating those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? Certainly not in this matter!

23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

33 So then, my brothers and sisters, when you gather to eat, you should all eat together. 34 Anyone who is hungry should eat something at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment.

And when I come I will give further directions.

So the bible is NOT allegorical?

 

[Taz]

Yep.

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

And that has nothing to do with this discussion.

You do realize that the early Christians who believed that the bread and wine were the body and blood of Christ had no scripture to read, right?

"He who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

I don’t think you understand what it means that the early Christians had no scripture to inform their belief that Christ would manifest himself into the bread and wine.

Obviously, they did not have that belief if they knew that failure to discern the Body resulted in a curse.


The command to eat his flesh and drink his blood is a test. Just like the when the law was first given, and just like when Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness.

Your response to it results in either a blessing or a curse, life or death.

Obviously you have failed to discern the body.

Not to worry! You can always pray for a do over or go to confession and then to show God just how sorry you are for your sins you can get down on your knees and worship a lifeless cracker.

Or you can just say, Hey Gawd, I followed your fucking book, what's your problem now?

 

[Windparadox]

`
Thank God I'm an atheist.

 

[Taz]

They realize Church is senseless

When someone puts a gun to your head, or you have a stroke or heart attack.....
You'll have your "Come to Jesus moment" just like every other God hating atheist.

If Church is so senseless, why is it that at the same time churches are in decline, murder, rape, assault, overall crime, discord and discontent is sharply on the rise?

What you clowns can't figure out is that even if there is no God, the belief in one helps humans to be better humans.

The exceptions are the religious fakes who are the ones killing and dying in the name of their religion. Those fanatics were gonna do so anyway, just like haters gonna hate, regardless. It just became their convenient excuse.

That no atheists in foxholes is BS

Maybe I should believe in a magic creature just doesn’t happen

If you bother to read the statistics violent crime has been on the decline

I have a new saying: Jesus can't stop a bullet. DUCK!

 

[hobelim]

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

And that has nothing to do with this discussion.

You do realize that the early Christians who believed that the bread and wine were the body and blood of Christ had no scripture to read, right?

"He who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

I don’t think you understand what it means that the early Christians had no scripture to inform their belief that Christ would manifest himself into the bread and wine.

Obviously, they did not have that belief if they knew that failure to discern the Body resulted in a curse.


The command to eat his flesh and drink his blood is a test. Just like the when the law was first given, and just like when Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness.

Your response to it results in either a blessing or a curse, life or death.

Obviously you have failed to discern the body.

Not to worry! You can always pray for a do over or go to confession and then to show God just how sorry you are for your sins you can get down on your knees and worship a lifeless cracker.

Or you can just say, Hey Gawd, I followed your fucking book, what's your problem now?

He doesn't have a problem.. You do. Remember? You can't get over on God.

He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good.....lol

 

[Taz]

And that has nothing to do with this discussion.

You do realize that the early Christians who believed that the bread and wine were the body and blood of Christ had no scripture to read, right?

"He who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

I don’t think you understand what it means that the early Christians had no scripture to inform their belief that Christ would manifest himself into the bread and wine.

Obviously, they did not have that belief if they knew that failure to discern the Body resulted in a curse.


The command to eat his flesh and drink his blood is a test. Just like the when the law was first given, and just like when Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness.

Your response to it results in either a blessing or a curse, life or death.

Obviously you have failed to discern the body.

Not to worry! You can always pray for a do over or go to confession and then to show God just how sorry you are for your sins you can get down on your knees and worship a lifeless cracker.

Or you can just say, Hey Gawd, I followed your fucking book, what's your problem now?

He doesn't have a problem.. You do. Remember? You can't get over on God.

He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good.....lol

That's Santa, you doofus.

 

[hobelim]

"He who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

I don’t think you understand what it means that the early Christians had no scripture to inform their belief that Christ would manifest himself into the bread and wine.

Obviously, they did not have that belief if they knew that failure to discern the Body resulted in a curse.


The command to eat his flesh and drink his blood is a test. Just like the when the law was first given, and just like when Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness.

Your response to it results in either a blessing or a curse, life or death.

Obviously you have failed to discern the body.

Not to worry! You can always pray for a do over or go to confession and then to show God just how sorry you are for your sins you can get down on your knees and worship a lifeless cracker.

Or you can just say, Hey Gawd, I followed your fucking book, what's your problem now?

He doesn't have a problem.. You do. Remember? You can't get over on God.

He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good.....lol

That's Santa, you doofus.

Oh, so Jesus can be godlike but not Santa? Why? You have a problem with fat guys?

HATER!

 

[Taz]

I don’t think you understand what it means that the early Christians had no scripture to inform their belief that Christ would manifest himself into the bread and wine.

Obviously, they did not have that belief if they knew that failure to discern the Body resulted in a curse.


The command to eat his flesh and drink his blood is a test. Just like the when the law was first given, and just like when Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness.

Your response to it results in either a blessing or a curse, life or death.

Obviously you have failed to discern the body.

Not to worry! You can always pray for a do over or go to confession and then to show God just how sorry you are for your sins you can get down on your knees and worship a lifeless cracker.

Or you can just say, Hey Gawd, I followed your fucking book, what's your problem now?

He doesn't have a problem.. You do. Remember? You can't get over on God.

He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good.....lol

That's Santa, you doofus.

Oh, so Jesus can be godlike but not Santa? Why? You have a problem with fat guys?

HATER!

But seriously, shouldn't god be kind to everyone who follows his book, regardless of their interpretation? Like, as long as they get out of it that god is the big scary badass and that you should obey him?

 

[hobelim]

Obviously, they did not have that belief if they knew that failure to discern the Body resulted in a curse.


The command to eat his flesh and drink his blood is a test. Just like the when the law was first given, and just like when Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness.

Your response to it results in either a blessing or a curse, life or death.

Obviously you have failed to discern the body.

Not to worry! You can always pray for a do over or go to confession and then to show God just how sorry you are for your sins you can get down on your knees and worship a lifeless cracker.

Or you can just say, Hey Gawd, I followed your fucking book, what's your problem now?

He doesn't have a problem.. You do. Remember? You can't get over on God.

He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good.....lol

That's Santa, you doofus.

Oh, so Jesus can be godlike but not Santa? Why? You have a problem with fat guys?

HATER!

But seriously, shouldn't god be kind to everyone who follows his book, regardless of their interpretation? Like, as long as they get out of it that god is the big scary badass and that you should obey him?

Like Jesus once said, seriously,

"If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin. But because you say, "We see" your guilt remains.


If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have been guilty of sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father also. If I had not done among them the works that no other man (but the messiah) could do, they would not be guilty of sin, but now they have seen and hated both me and my Father.

 

[ding]

Not that you would accept because there is no proof you would accept.

I only accept real proof, not your made up kind.

The only proof we have of historical events are written manuscripts. There are over 24,000 of those that recorded the ministry of Jesus.

So you’re saying that Jesus actually walked on water, turned water into wine, ... .

Yep.

You're delusional, you have no proof.

Just the written manuscripts and my personal experiences.

 

[ding]

Yep.

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

And that has nothing to do with this discussion.

You do realize that the early Christians who believed that the bread and wine were the body and blood of Christ had no scripture to read, right?

"He who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

1 Corinthians 11

Correcting an Abuse of the Lord’s Supper
17 In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18 In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval. 20 So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, 21 for when you are eating, some of you go ahead with your own private suppers. As a result, one person remains hungry and another gets drunk. 22 Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God by humiliating those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? Certainly not in this matter!

23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

33 So then, my brothers and sisters, when you gather to eat, you should all eat together. 34 Anyone who is hungry should eat something at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment.

And when I come I will give further directions.

So the bible is NOT allegorical?

Parts of it are. We’ve had this discussion before.

 

[Taz]

Or you can just say, Hey Gawd, I followed your fucking book, what's your problem now?

He doesn't have a problem.. You do. Remember? You can't get over on God.

He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good.....lol

That's Santa, you doofus.

Oh, so Jesus can be godlike but not Santa? Why? You have a problem with fat guys?

HATER!

But seriously, shouldn't god be kind to everyone who follows his book, regardless of their interpretation? Like, as long as they get out of it that god is the big scary badass and that you should obey him?

Like Jesus once said, seriously,

"If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin. But because you say, "We see" your guilt remains.


If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have been guilty of sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father also. If I had not done among them the works that no other man (but the messiah) could do, they would not be guilty of sin, but now they have seen and hated both me and my Father.

So then according to you, I'm not guilty of sin. Thanks, brah.