The Impact of Global Christian Music in Worship

[Natural Citizen]

I struggled to decide where to share this paper but I put it here. I was going to offer it up for discussion in the CDZ for no other reason than to keep it clean, but really I don't want to debate it. Pure discussion is what I'm looking for here.

The other day buttercup made a thread, likely to stimulate further discussion and I totally missed the whole point on the op. She had posted a Christian outreach song and offered some commentary, it was global in nature, which regretfully I forgot. What she posted was really an extention, more likely a demonstration of what the paper I'm going to link is all about. I complained about the song instead of even caring about the topic. And I was kind of jerk in tenor in my posts, some of you might know how I get like that sometimes in my posts, I'll work on it. Really.

Anyway the thread disappeared, I asked her why, and she said she asked to have it deleted. Dust your feet kind of thing, too, know what I mean? Compound that with the snarky, totally off topic tenor in my keystrokes, I don't blame her if she kicked the dust in my face on the way outta the thread. It was very insensitive of me. Later I mentioned I felt bad about it to ding, he agreed I was a jerk, except he didn't say it. One might even consider it a moment of fellowship if he takes a moment to ponder it. He took the high road and left me with some good avice about what the right thing to do might be. Buttercup has made it her mission to travel the world in discipleship for The Good Lord. Way out of my league, I shouldn't have even opened my mouth in the first place. Not to be offered as an excuse, but only as a passing blurb is that I'm only a man and we make mistakes. The upside is the learning experience, I suppose, and the realization that as men we don't really understand the mistakes we make.

So. ding, thank you. Buttercup, I'm sorry. I'll try to continue the discussion, it's as close as I recall the intention of her thread was.

The Impact of Global Christian Music in Worship

Thoughts? It's not my place to lead disussion here, I'm what you'd call a new Christian. K?

But I do hope the discussion may continue fruitfully.

 

[Karl Rand]

But I do hope the discussion may continue fruitfully.[/QUOTE]
A very interesting topic, even for an unbeliever such as myself. I studied the pipe organ for eleven years in a catholic cathedral eventually leaving those studies due to direct experience of the evil and hypocracy behind the scenes. I’m still inspired though by the music, expecially the High Anglican choral tradition but none of it leads me ‘back to God’.
On the other hand I find the all singing dancing rock and roll approach to sacred music so popular today anything but inspiring and certainly not devine. I am however moved by negro spirituals. No sermon or bible reading has ever moved me the way, for instance, John Tavener’s ‘Hymn to Athena’ performed at Princess Diana’s funeral did.

Then there’s this little gem written to only ever be performed in the presence of the Pope in the Cistine Chappel . Mozart heard it and took it away in his memory. Anglican choirs have been gleefully porforming it ever since. Even though I find most of the text nausiating, especially the reference to being concieved in sin, I still find myself thinking of this as divine.

 

[keepitreal]

Thoughts? It's not my place to lead disussion here,
I'm what you'd call a new Christian. K?

 

[keepitreal]

Thoughts? It's not my place to lead disussion here,
I'm what you'd call a new Christian. K?

 

[keepitreal]

Thoughts? It's not my place to lead disussion here,
I'm what you'd call a new Christian. K?

 

[buttercup]

I struggled to decide where to share this paper but I put it here. I was going to offer it up for discussion in the CDZ for no other reason than to keep it clean, but really I don't want to debate it. Pure discussion is what I'm looking for here.

The other day buttercup made a thread, likely to stimulate further discussion and I totally missed the whole point on the op. She had posted a Christian outreach song and offered some commentary, it was global in nature, which regretfully I forgot. What she posted was really an extention, more likely a demonstration of what the paper I'm going to link is all about. I complained about the song instead of even caring about the topic. And I was kind of jerk in tenor in my posts, some of you might know how I get like that sometimes in my posts, I'll work on it. Really.

Anyway the thread disappeared, I asked her why, and she said she asked to have it deleted. Dust your feet kind of thing, too, know what I mean? Compound that with the snarky, totally off topic tenor in my keystrokes, I don't blame her if she kicked the dust in my face on the way outta the thread. It was very insensitive of me. Later I mentioned I felt bad about it to ding, he agreed I was a jerk, except he didn't say it. One might even consider it a moment of fellowship if he takes a moment to ponder it. He took the high road and left me with some good avice about what the right thing to do might be. Buttercup has made it her mission to travel the world in discipleship for The Good Lord. Way out of my league, I shouldn't have even opened my mouth in the first place. Not to be offered as an excuse, but only as a passing blurb is that I'm only a man and we make mistakes. The upside is the learning experience, I suppose, and the realization that as men we don't really understand the mistakes we make.

So. ding, thank you. Buttercup, I'm sorry. I'll try to continue the discussion, it's as close as I recall the intention of her thread was.

The Impact of Global Christian Music in Worship

Thoughts? It's not my place to lead disussion here, I'm what you'd call a new Christian. K?

But I do hope the discussion may continue fruitfully.

Awww, thank you. I admit, I was a little bummed about deleting that thread, so thanks for doing this. And like I told you, forgiven, no worries.

That was a good article. It brought to mind my experience at YWAM Kona. It was a truly amazing experience, because there were people there from literally all over the world… from every continent. And one of the coolest things about that base was that you’d get to experience all different kinds of worship music/styles. Everyone gets the opportunity to sing/worship in the way all the different cultures represented there do…so there was so much diversity, but unity at the same time. Because that’s what happens when believers come together, it doesn’t matter where you’re from, you’re brothers and sisters… children of God.

That’s why I loved that video I posted on the other thread. To me there’s something beautiful about hearing people praising God in all different languages. As the article said, it is one step closer to Rev. 5:9 (“from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.”)

And the thing is, music is powerful. There’s a really good quote by Brooke Fraser about music… Hold on a minute and I’ll find it.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Music really is a powerful form of communication that mere words can not express.

 

[buttercup]

Here’s the quote I had in mind, about music. It’s by Brooke Fraser, one of my favorite singers/musicians.

“....it is a heavenly language. There's actually no music in Hell... the Bible confirms that... but music has this ability to override, or bypass people's intellect and go straight to the soul.”

 

[Natural Citizen]

Agreed, music is very powerful.

 

[Karl Rand]

QUOTE="Natural Citizen, post: 21285808, member: 58613"]Agreed, music is very powerful.[/QUOTE]
Indeed but let’s not forget music, especially when used during mass rallies, has the power to induce evil. There’s a form of rap that preaches mysogeny, homophobia and racism. There’s also a proven negative influence on the young from lyrics that encourage suicide..
As with anything humans create,it can always be a two edged sword.
Now for something uplifting, even for unbelievers like me.......
I’m not sure if this next song is Christian but Phil Collins himself is so I suppose it must be.

I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
Can you feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord, oh Lord
Well if you told me you were drowning, I would not lend a hand
I've seen your face before my friend, but I don't know if you know who I am
Well I was there and I saw what you did, I saw it with my own two eyes
So you can wipe off that grin, I know where you've been
It's all been a pack of lies
And I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
Well I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord

 

[Windparadox]

`
When I'm in the mood, Christmas Catholic Choral music hits the spot;
`
`

​

 

[Linkiloo]

I've always thought that gospel is the only means of prayer that truly seems heartfelt and fun, rather than depressing and intimidated.

 

[Karl Rand]

I've always thought that gospel is the only means of prayer that truly seems heartfelt and fun, rather than depressing and intimidated.

As a child I found just about everything associated with the church intimidating and depressing apart from some of the music.

I’m not sure prayer is the right term for all songs of worship. Maybe there’s a place for celebration too?

 

[Karl Rand]

I've always thought that gospel is the only means of prayer that truly seems heartfelt and fun, rather than depressing and intimidated.

As a child I found just about everything associated with the church intimidating and depressing apart from some of the music.

I’m not sure prayer is the right term for all songs of worship. Maybe there’s a place for celebration too?

____________________________________________________________________

 

[Karl Rand]

And now for a bit of full on gospel - - - - - - -

 

[SweetSue92]

I struggled to decide where to share this paper but I put it here. I was going to offer it up for discussion in the CDZ for no other reason than to keep it clean, but really I don't want to debate it. Pure discussion is what I'm looking for here.

The other day buttercup made a thread, likely to stimulate further discussion and I totally missed the whole point on the op. She had posted a Christian outreach song and offered some commentary, it was global in nature, which regretfully I forgot. What she posted was really an extention, more likely a demonstration of what the paper I'm going to link is all about. I complained about the song instead of even caring about the topic. And I was kind of jerk in tenor in my posts, some of you might know how I get like that sometimes in my posts, I'll work on it. Really.

Anyway the thread disappeared, I asked her why, and she said she asked to have it deleted. Dust your feet kind of thing, too, know what I mean? Compound that with the snarky, totally off topic tenor in my keystrokes, I don't blame her if she kicked the dust in my face on the way outta the thread. It was very insensitive of me. Later I mentioned I felt bad about it to ding, he agreed I was a jerk, except he didn't say it. One might even consider it a moment of fellowship if he takes a moment to ponder it. He took the high road and left me with some good avice about what the right thing to do might be. Buttercup has made it her mission to travel the world in discipleship for The Good Lord. Way out of my league, I shouldn't have even opened my mouth in the first place. Not to be offered as an excuse, but only as a passing blurb is that I'm only a man and we make mistakes. The upside is the learning experience, I suppose, and the realization that as men we don't really understand the mistakes we make.

So. ding, thank you. Buttercup, I'm sorry. I'll try to continue the discussion, it's as close as I recall the intention of her thread was.

The Impact of Global Christian Music in Worship

Thoughts? It's not my place to lead disussion here, I'm what you'd call a new Christian. K?

But I do hope the discussion may continue fruitfully.

Hey Natural Citizen, I wish more people could own up to mistakes and foibles like you just did. I didn't read the thread you reference, I just know if we could all say "mea culpa" the world would be a more polite place.

OKay, I'm back from reading the article. I'm not sure what there is to debate here to be honest? This seems non-debatable to me.

Music is language--when God scattered the people and the tongues at the Tower of Babel, well, you were also going to get a myriad of different musical "languages". That to me is just part of the beauty and majesty of His creation--just like the blonde hair and blue eyes of Norwegian people, and very dark skin and dark hair of Nigerian people. It's not really debatable, it just is--it's not something the church should debate, but celebrate.

 

[SweetSue92]

I struggled to decide where to share this paper but I put it here. I was going to offer it up for discussion in the CDZ for no other reason than to keep it clean, but really I don't want to debate it. Pure discussion is what I'm looking for here.

The other day buttercup made a thread, likely to stimulate further discussion and I totally missed the whole point on the op. She had posted a Christian outreach song and offered some commentary, it was global in nature, which regretfully I forgot. What she posted was really an extention, more likely a demonstration of what the paper I'm going to link is all about. I complained about the song instead of even caring about the topic. And I was kind of jerk in tenor in my posts, some of you might know how I get like that sometimes in my posts, I'll work on it. Really.

Anyway the thread disappeared, I asked her why, and she said she asked to have it deleted. Dust your feet kind of thing, too, know what I mean? Compound that with the snarky, totally off topic tenor in my keystrokes, I don't blame her if she kicked the dust in my face on the way outta the thread. It was very insensitive of me. Later I mentioned I felt bad about it to ding, he agreed I was a jerk, except he didn't say it. One might even consider it a moment of fellowship if he takes a moment to ponder it. He took the high road and left me with some good avice about what the right thing to do might be. Buttercup has made it her mission to travel the world in discipleship for The Good Lord. Way out of my league, I shouldn't have even opened my mouth in the first place. Not to be offered as an excuse, but only as a passing blurb is that I'm only a man and we make mistakes. The upside is the learning experience, I suppose, and the realization that as men we don't really understand the mistakes we make.

So. ding, thank you. Buttercup, I'm sorry. I'll try to continue the discussion, it's as close as I recall the intention of her thread was.

The Impact of Global Christian Music in Worship

Thoughts? It's not my place to lead disussion here, I'm what you'd call a new Christian. K?

But I do hope the discussion may continue fruitfully.

Can I also say that I'm no expert, but I am a music educator, and have a degree in music...as you would expect. And I sometimes think--no one throw tomatoes--that unless the composer is directly quoting Scripture, some of the most powerful music that praises God does not even say "praise God, praise God, praise God".

I don't know. I find Him to be so awesome that sometimes you have to be small and just take in certain aspects of Him in small doses. I find a lot of modern Christian music too in-your-face, too HEY!!! THIS IS OUR WORSHIP MUSIC!!!

Here is my current jam by a Latvian composer who attended a Baptist Theological Seminary. He quotes Sara Teasdale's Stars. The mysterious sound you hear throughout is made by the choir "playing" filled water glasses. (This exquisite musical talent and creativity, by the way, is a gift from God...another reason to praise Him while you listen):

Stars

Alone in the night
On a dark hill
With pines around me
Spicy and still,

And a heaven full of stars
Over my head,
White and topaz
And misty red;

Myriads with beating
Hearts of fire
That aeons
Cannot vex or tire;

Up the dome of heaven
Like a great hill,
I watch them marching
Stately and still,

And I know that I
Am honored to be
Witness
Of so much majesty.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

We sang this every day in school assembly and as you can see here the audience join in because they did too. Its an unofficial national anthem.


Nid wy'n gofyn bywyd moethus,
Aur y byd na'i berlau mân:
Gofyn wyf am galon hapus,
Calon onest, calon lân.

Cytgan:
Calon lân yn llawn daioni,
Tecach yw na'r lili dlos:
Dim ond calon lân all ganu-
Canu'r dydd a chanu'r nos.

Pe dymunwn olud bydol,
Hedyn buan ganddo sydd;
Golud calon lân, rinweddol,
Yn dwyn bythol elw fydd.

Hwyr a bore fy nymuniad
Gwyd i'r nef ar edyn cân
Ar i Dduw, er mwyn fy Ngheidwad,
Roddi i mi galon lân.

Translated -

I don't ask for a luxurious life,
the world's gold or its fine pearls:
I ask for a happy heart,
an honest heart, a pure heart.

Chorus:
A pure heart is full of goodness,
More lovely than the pretty lily:
Only a pure heart can sing -
Sing day and night.

If I wished worldly wealth,
He has a swift seed;
The riches of a virtuous, pure heart,
Will be a perpetual profit.

Late and early, my wish
Rise to heavan on the wing of song,
To God, for the sake of my Saviour,
Give me a pure heart.

 

[Karl Rand]

Re reading the original post I’m wondering what is meant here by ‘global’.
It’s also just crossed my mind how much I hate congregational singing. Maybe it’s because I’m blessed with (suffer from ?) perfect pitch the tuneless noises most congregations make is a painful experience. We have a lot to blame Psalm 100. V:1 for.

As the previous post proves, there is an exception, most Welsh congregations can actually hold a tune.

 

[Karl Rand]

Duplicate post deleted