Zone1 Before or After

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Shrug. They are both right. Argue for limitations and you get to keep them

Do you want to know what else is true? God will give each what they expect of the afterlife.

 

[BULLDOG]

Not really

Christians support moral standards, but no-one is compelled to worship or believe in God

But you want to legislate our laws based on your religious beliefs. Drop your anti-abortion, anti-gay, and anti-trans crusades, and your remark might sound a little more believable.

 

[Meriweather]

Drop your anti-abortion,

Have you talked to atheists about this? Many of the atheists I know insist since this is the only life available and the Constitution states there is a right to life, killing the unborn, according the the Constitution abortion is unlawful. As for the rest, keeping matters pertaining to genitalia to oneself is reasonable. Kind of sad when first world countries' primary concern are their genitalia.

 

[Foxfyre]

I have always wondered if people decide to believe that a god exists before or after they were exposed to any particular religion.

For example if a person ( let's say someone who is 18 and considered an adult) never heard god mentioned or never experienced any religious teaching would merely reading the OT, NT or the Koran instill belief?

If a person's very first exposure to gods or religion was attending Temple, Church or Mosque services, would that first service be enough to plant the belief of a god that would then be part of their life for as long as they live?

I think it is an interesting question because I know many people who have walked away from religion or changed a religion after they were raised into one.

Since religion is so ubiquitous in every society I think this would be a good topic.

I don't remember a time when I didn't believe in God and Jesus became important to me at a very early age. I also don't remember a time when I put a great deal of personal importance on the rules, regs, liturgy, catechisms or whatever disciplines that were taught by any particular Christian denomination.

I saw then and now value in Church and have worshipped with many different denominations from the most narrow minded fundamentalists to the most outgoing charismatic and enjoyed most of those services. Admittedly some more than others. But I can appreciate high church, low church, and everything in between as well as a couple of synagogues and feel the presence of God.

For me it isn't a religion but a relationship. The religion part is often okay or even helpful and important, but not necessary in order to have that relationship.

Having said that, and to address what I think you are asking in the OP, I don't think it matters all that much how a person comes to know God and it can happen in any manner of settings. Those who are comforted or feel more grounded following the doctrines and dictates of this or that religion may need that. Others of us don't put much importance on rules but put a lot of importance on choices, attitude, principle, ethics, obedience that we know God expects of us.

So yes, I have seen and/or listened to testimony of those who entered that relationship via a church service or sermon or some other religious activity. And also I have been witnessed to by those who came under conviction outside the church.

I do believe churches, synagogues, and probably many mosques are important to help people keep focused and aware of what is really important. Communities of the religious even of myriad disciplines are almost always more stable, prosperous, safer with less crime, and much more likely to care for their own. Children thrive better and tend to have far fewer problems. Marriages tend to be much more stable.

Maybe it's easier to find God in such communities. Maybe I should say it is probably easier to come to know God in such communities. But I let God be God and figure he finds a way in his own time to reach people who are willing to be reached.

 

[BULLDOG]

Have you talked to atheists about this? Many of the atheists I know insist since this is the only life available and the Constitution states there is a right to life, killing the unborn, according the the Constitution abortion is unlawful. As for the rest, keeping matters pertaining to genitalia to oneself is reasonable. Kind of sad when first world countries' primary concern are their genitalia.

Anti-abortion is a purely religion driven issue. Don't try to pretend it is anything else. If it was actually right to life, instead of just fetuses, you would be protesting executions as often as you protest clinics, and you wouldn't be so stingy when it comes to help for poor mothers.

 

[Meriweather]

Anti-abortion is a purely religion driven issue. Don't try to pretend it is anything else. If it was actually right to life, instead of just fetuses, you would be protesting executions as often as you protest clinics, and you wouldn't be so stingy when it comes to help for poor mothers.

As a matter of fact, we do help poor mothers, we do protest/pray at executions, etc. Never seen you doing either. Is that why you are for killing life, so you don't have to extend a hand to the poor mothers and their children?

 

[buttercup]

So how is a person who has never been exposed to any religion not bring his personal life into that very first religious service he attends?

The question is how does one first come to believe in gods?

It's a purely hypothetical question in that there is no person born in the world today that is not exposed to religion from day one.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Romans 1:20

(Bold added by me)

 

[buttercup]

Anti-abortion is a purely religion driven issue. Don't try to pretend it is anything else. If it was actually right to life, instead of just fetuses, you would be protesting executions as often as you protest clinics, and you wouldn't be so stingy when it comes to help for poor mothers.

Absolutely false. There are plenty of atheist and agnostic pro-lifers. You are either uninformed or dishonest, not sure which.

You need to get out more....

 

[Mac-7]

But you want to legislate our laws based on your religious beliefs

Yes

There is nothing wrong with that

And so do libs based on their anti religious beliefs

Or their dedication to the climate change doomsday hoax

 

[BULLDOG]

As a matter of fact, we do help poor mothers, we do protest/pray at executions, etc. Never seen you doing either. Is that why you are for killing life, so you don't have to extend a hand to the poor mothers and their children?

Odd, but I've never seen you or any others who called themselves pro-life at either of those situations. Perhaps you'll introduce yourself next time.

 

[BULLDOG]

Absolutely false. There are plenty of atheist and agnostic pro-lifers. You are either uninformed or dishonest, not sure which.

You need to get out more....

The LGBT community disavows that group.

 

[Blues Man]

I dont care if you agree with me or not

But you care very much that everyone reject God as you do

How can I reject anything when I don't even know if it exists or not?

 

[Blues Man]

well name me where before moses.....................these are only common sense values anyway....anyone breaking half of them is hopefully karmad with such severe tragedy one would never believe

There were laws codifying all sorts of laws on murder, theft etc before Moses talked to a bush

 

[Blues Man]

Atheists are an evangelical cult. Atheism IS a religion

Except I'm not an atheist.

 

[Blues Man]

How does one come to believe that the sun rises in the East, that a hot stove burns, that one can learn to swim? Observation. Experience.

As the saying goes about can and can't: Many believe they can know/experience God and His ways. Some believe they can't know/experience God and His ways.

Shrug. They are both right. Argue for limitations and you get to keep them.

Yes you think you are unlimited and enlightened beyond anyone who doesn't believe what you do we get it.

But when you realize you are nothing, that the self is an illusion and that there is no barrier between you and the entire universe you might realize you are the one who is limited



even a child can see the sun rise and set without being taught that the sun exists and you can make children believe in just about anything, Santa, the Bogeyman, Easter bunnies, tooth fairies etc which is why my question presumed a person was at least 18

 

[Blues Man]

Not really

Christians support moral standards, but no-one is compelled to worship or believe in God

So do secular humanists we just disagree on where those morals come from

 

[Blues Man]

I don't remember a time when I didn't believe in God and Jesus became important to me at a very early age. I also don't remember a time when I put a great deal of personal importance on the rules, regs, liturgy, catechisms or whatever disciplines that were taught by any particular Christian denomination.

I saw then and now value in Church and have worshipped with many different denominations from the most narrow minded fundamentalists to the most outgoing charismatic and enjoyed most of those services. Admittedly some more than others. But I can appreciate high church, low church, and everything in between as well as a couple of synagogues and feel the presence of God.

For me it isn't a religion but a relationship. The religion part is often okay or even helpful and important, but not necessary in order to have that relationship.

Having said that, and to address what I think you are asking in the OP, I don't think it matters all that much how a person comes to know God and it can happen in any manner of settings. Those who are comforted or feel more grounded following the doctrines and dictates of this or that religion may need that. Others of us don't put much importance on rules but put a lot of importance on choices, attitude, principle, ethics, obedience that we know God expects of us.

So yes, I have seen and/or listened to testimony of those who entered that relationship via a church service or sermon or some other religious activity. And also I have been witnessed to by those who came under conviction outside the church.

I do believe churches, synagogues, and probably many mosques are important to help people keep focused and aware of what is really important. Communities of the religious even of myriad disciplines are almost always more stable, prosperous, safer with less crime, and much more likely to care for their own. Children thrive better and tend to have far fewer problems. Marriages tend to be much more stable.

Maybe it's easier to find God in such communities. Maybe I should say it is probably easier to come to know God in such communities. But I let God be God and figure he finds a way in his own time to reach people who are willing to be reached.

But was that because you were steeped in religion from the moment you were born?

This is why I asked the hypothetical question about a young adult who was never exposed to any religion and what would be the reasons if any he chose to believe in the gods of any religion.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes you think you are unlimited and enlightened beyond anyone who doesn't believe what you do we get it.

And this is why I always end up deciding not to engage you in discussion. No, I am not "enlightened". No, I am not "unlimited". Quite the opposite. Once you can see me as the common, mediocre, insignificant person I am we might one day be able to have a real conversation.

But when you realize you are nothing, that the self is an illusion and that there is no barrier between you and the entire universe you might realize you are the one who is limited.

Priceless. Pursue limits then. I say the Jesuit priest and French philosopher, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin hits closer with, We are spiritual beings having a human experience.

It is difficult to wrap one's mind around humans being both limited and unlimited.

 

[Mac-7]

So do secular humanists we just disagree on where those morals come from

I have seen warped secular humanist moral standards that lead to grooming children into the homosexual culture for the sake of “diversity”

 

[Blues Man]

And this is why I always end up deciding not to engage you in discussion. No, I am not "enlightened". No, I am not "unlimited". Quite the opposite. Once you can see me as the common, mediocre, insignificant person I am we might one day be able to have a real conversation.

Priceless. Pursue limits then. I say the Jesuit priest and French philosopher, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin hits closer with, We are spiritual beings having a human experience.

It is difficult to wrap one's mind around humans being both limited and unlimited.

No you just take every opportunity to tell me how limited am because I don't believe what you do.

And you are still thinking you are a being in the universe. There is no difference between you and the universe just as there is no difference between a wave and the ocean that spawns it.

The idea of self is an illusion