Zone1 Before or After

[Blues Man]

I have seen warped secular humanist moral standards that lead to grooming children into the homosexual culture for the sake of “diversity”

And I have seen warped priests who groomed and molested children protected religious institutions

 

[Mac-7]

And I have seen warped priests who groomed children protected by a world wide religious conspiracy

The difference is that bad priests are anomalies whereas lib sex groomers are the goal of godless anything-goes liberal culture

 

[Blues Man]

The difference is that bad priests are anomalies whereas lib sex groomers are the goal of godless anything-goes liberal culture

No they aren't.

And Christian churches have actively shielded these pedophiles.

But I guess you're OK with that because they believe in your god too right?

 

[Mac-7]

And Christian churches have actively shielded these pedophiles.

Yes, and that was wrong

A fact that outrages Christians as much as lib grooming of children into the homosexual lifestyle

 

[Blues Man]

Yes, and that was wrong

A fact that outrages Christians as much as lib grooming of children into the homosexual lifestyle

And no secular humanists are "outraged" right?

 

[Mac-7]

And no secular humanists are "outraged" right?

I wish that more were

 

[Blues Man]

I wish that more were

You don't have a clue how many are. And in fact since most people believe in the same god you do it only makes sense that most pedophiles say they believe in your god too

prisons of full of religious people you know.

 

[Blues Man]

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Romans 1:20

(Bold added by me)

No one knows anything when they are born. A person who was never exposed to any religion whatsoever would not "know" anything about the god you worship.

 

[Meriweather]

No you just take every opportunity to tell me how limited am because I don't believe what you do.

As you are so fond of saying, "Post it." I don't believe you are limited and therefore never said it. I could not care less when you--or anyone else--does not believe as I do. I have my beliefs and everyone else can find their own. That means you.

My only objection EVER is when people tell me what I "really" believe or I am "really" saying. Every single time that has been wrong.

 

[Meriweather]

And you are still thinking you are a being in the universe. There is no difference between you and the universe just as there is no difference between a wave and the ocean that spawns it.

The idea of self is an illusion

Yawn. Again...Telling me what I am "really" up to, thime you even know what I am "really" thinking. Amazing.

Meaning amazingly wrong. Clueless even. It is why I find it impossible to have any kind of conversation with you. You make up someone in our own mind, attach my name to it, and off you go. So...

Once again, off I go.

 

[Blues Man]

As you are so fond of saying, "Post it." I don't believe you are limited and therefore never said it. I could not care less when you--or anyone else--does not believe as I do. I have my beliefs and everyone else can find their own. That means you.

My only objection EVER is when people tell me what I "really" believe or I am "really" saying. Every single time that has been wrong.

In this very thread you said "Argue for limitations and you will get them"

I am not arguing for limitations and I never have

 

[Blues Man]

Yawn. Again...Telling me what I am "really" up to, thime you even know what I am "really" thinking. Amazing.

Meaning amazingly wrong. Clueless even. It is why I find it impossible to have any kind of conversation with you. You make up someone in our own mind, attach my name to it, and off you go. So...

Once again, off I go.

So you did not just say we are spiritual beings having the experience of being human beings. Have you not mentioned the "spirit world" countless times as it is something that is not of the world we live in?

Do you not think you possess a unique soul handcrafted by your god that was then placed into a mortal shell on the earth and that soul will remain unique and whole forever and ever as long as you do X,Y and Z?

These things to me indicate that you believe you are brought into this universe from an outside agent not that you are part of this universe's nature and natural processes. That the universe was made for you to live in not that you are indistinguishable from that universe.

 

[LibertyKid]

I have always wondered if people decide to believe that a god exists before or after they were exposed to any particular religion.

I've asked this question in similar terms.Recorded human history largely has always had some form of deity or spirituality within the culture. Native American spirituality and ceremonial (Magick) traditions that speak to beings, yet to be or departed have no tangible evidence in science, yet they believed in 'something'. Maybe not a religion, but something supernatural. Why? Where did it come from.

But go all the way back to ancient history, humans have alway leaned towards "religion" or deities, with no tangible evidence. If a person 6000 years ago said, "Hey, I think we should believe in this god", even humans 6000 years ago would still ask, "Where's the proof". Yet, religion has always been a part of human culture.

Why? And I don't think the idea of "Well they used gods to explain, rain, earthquakes, volcanoes, etc.," as an exhaustive answer. The belief in life after death, isn't explained in nature, yet humans have always pursued this path with no tangible evidence?

 

[Blues Man]

I've asked this question in similar terms.Recorded human history largely has always had some form of deity or spirituality within the culture. Native American spirituality and ceremonial (Magick) traditions that speak to beings, yet to be or departed have no tangible evidence in science, yet they believed in 'something'. Maybe not a religion, but something supernatural. Why? Where did it come from.

But go all the way back to ancient history, humans have alway leaned towards "religion" or deities, with no tangible evidence. If a person 6000 years ago said, "Hey, I think we should believe in this god", even humans 6000 years ago would still ask, "Where's the proof". Yet, religion has always been a part of human culture.

Why? And I don't think the idea of "Well they used gods to explain, rain, earthquakes, volcanoes, etc.," as an exhaustive answer. The belief in life after death, isn't explained in nature, yet humans have always pursued this path with no tangible evidence?

it came from fear and ignorance of the natural world.

How terrifying would an earthquake be to unsophisticated, illiterate ignorant people whose everyday life was a struggle just to survive?

Making up an explanation even one that is utterly fantastic and 100% incorrect is better than having no explanation at all.

 

[Mr Natural]

At the behest of Mom I went as far as my confirmation and that was it for me.

But even from the beginning, I never “got it “. It all seemed like a lot of made up nonsense. That, and the nuns were mean.

 

[Foxfyre]

But was that because you were steeped in religion from the moment you were born?

This is why I asked the hypothetical question about a young adult who was never exposed to any religion and what would be the reasons if any he chose to believe in the gods of any religion.

I don't know. All I know is that I can't remember a time I did not believe in God. Certainly being part of a Christian community helped me grow in my understandings even though I would eventually move on from some, maybe most, of the dogma.

But I also know others who came to know God after they were adults. Some came to the realization in AA, some by the witness/example of others, some by some other situation or experience, some by being exposed to the concept of God when they dated or married a believer. I'm pretty sure there are no hard and fast it has to happen.

I also grieve sometimes for those who are pushed away from God by the unattractive way in which He was introduced or represented to them. I'm pretty sure it's an extremely rare person, if such people even exist, who became believers by being told they were going to Hell.

 

[Blues Man]

I don't know. All I know is that I can't remember a time I did not believe in God. Certainly being part of a Christian community helped me grow in my understandings even though I would eventually move on from some, maybe most, of the dogma.

But I also know others who came to know God after they were adults. Some came to the realization in AA, some by the witness/example of others, some by some other situation or experience, some by being exposed to the concept of God when they dated or married a believer. I'm pretty sure there are no hard and fast it has to happen.

I also grieve sometimes at those who are pushed away from God by the unattractive way in which He was introduced or represented to them. I'm pretty sure it's an extremely rare person, if such people even exist, who became believers by being told they were going to Hell.

But religion is so ubiquitous in this society that everyone has had some experience of it. Even AA has moved away from a god based step to now call it a higher power because the god thing was actually keeping some people away from AA.

Even when I started looking for my own answers as a young adult I started with Christianity because I had experience with it from my childhood. I then moved on to find other philosophies that resonated more with me than Christianity.

 

[Foxfyre]

But religion is so ubiquitous in this society that everyone has had some experience of it. Even AA has moved away from a god based step to now call it a higher power because the god thing was actually keeping some people away from AA.

Even when I started looking for my own answers as a young adult I started with Christianity because I had experience with it from my childhood. I then moved on to find other philosophies that resonated more with me than Christianity.

AA has ALWAYS called it a higher power from the very beginning. But the Lord's Prayer is usually prevalent in an AA meeting though there are forces trying to get AA to reject that which would be a huge mistake. But trust me, many have found God as they fought to get clean and sober. (No I am not alcoholic but spent many years in Al-Anon and working with/counseling family members of alcoholics which sometimes involved the alcoholic himself or herself.)

As a much younger adult, with so much of the dogma, rules and regs of religion not making sense to me, I also explored many other religious traditions. But once all the trappings of religion are stripped away I was left with one certainty. God exists and my relationship with Him is real. And Christianity as a relationship is real even when dogma and doctrines are open to debate.

 

[LibertyKid]

Making up an explanation even one that is utterly fantastic and 100% incorrect is better than having no explanation at all.

Is it? The demand for proof, regardless of the claim is still a logical ask, even 6000 years ago.

 

[buttercup]

No one knows anything when they are born. A person who was never exposed to any religion whatsoever would not "know" anything about the god you worship.

Who said anything about "when they are born"? Obviously a newborn doesn't know anything.

Did you not read the scripture I posted? If so, go back and read it, more slowly this time. It's not hard to understand, but if you don't understand it just say so, and we can go from there.