Battlecry: Christian kids have lost it

[jillian]

I think I need to answer that in two parts:

The average person under 40 also doesn't want his kids being told about sodomy in graphic detail

They aren't being told about sodomy in graphic detail. And, anal sex is already a huge problem among teenagers (especially the ones taking the 'virginity pledge' as has been discussed on other threads). So it's not sodomy which seems to be a huge issue or abstinence only education would be stopped.

doesn't want their kids indoctrinated on how families with 'two dads' are just as good as traditional families, and especially doesn't want the school passing out questionnares to determine how gay they are. There's a fine line between preaching tolerance and proselytizing for an unpopular cause. Public schools can't even see the line anymore.

And here's your bigger issue... but most younger people (except for the far right) could care less about their friends' sexuality or that of their parents.

It's a prejudice which, luckily, seems to be diminishing, if not dying out totally (hatred never does).

Just how it is. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

And here's your bigger issue... but most younger people (except for the far right) could care less about their friends' sexuality or that of their parents.

Then why is it important to have a gay espousing and normalizing curriculum, if homophobia is withering away, as you suggest?

 

[Nienna]

Accommodating your beliefs, though, is restricting others. I'll use the gay issue again because it adequately explains my point within the religious context of the discussion.

Gay people just want equal treatment. They don't need you to be gay or even accept the lifestyle. Also, they're not telling you that you can't or shouldn't be christian. Yet, you are trying to reform society to tell them what they can or can't be. It's not a fair balance. YOU are not being restricted, but you are restricting them.

Gay activists don't want equal treatment; they want special treatment, and THEY want to reorder society to accomodate, normalize homosexuality. An example is the "Christian" churches that are changing their doctrine, not bc of the Bible, but bc of the desire to please and accomodate gays. The changes in society are coming from the gay point of view. Christianity USED to be the standard in this country.

Gays (as a lobby) don't want to quietly have sex with each other and allow me to house my own personal beliefs. They want to change the laws/norms about marriage, age of consent, school curriculums. Parents are restricted as to the beliefs they want to pass on to their children; one man is in a lawsuit bc he simply wanted to be notified when they had gay presentations at school, so that his child could opt out. Gays do not want to simply let Christians alone to their beliefs; they want to ensure that the homosexual agenda is not only tolerated, but embraced.

Besides the first ammendment, here is why. We do not all agree to believe in the same God or even any God at all. Rationaliizing an issue because God said it, can NEVER be fair to those who don't believe or believe in something else.

Anti-war activists want to bring troops home so they don't die. Pro-war activists want to leave troops in battle to finish a job. The two sides of this argument are based on reason, not religion. "Because God said so..." is never a fair debate.

I do not know any Christians who want to force Christianity on every person in the nation. Again, I don't know much about Luce, but the Christian lobbyists I am familiar with lobby for things like restrictions on abortion, preservation of traditional marriage, support for the war. I have never heard Christian lobbyists argue for an issue simply because "God said so." However, I don't think that Christians should have to hide the fact that belief in God shapes their beliefs about other issues.

 

[Nienna]

Then why is it important to have a gay espousing and normalizing curriculum, if homophobia is withering away, as you suggest?

 

[jillian]

Then why is it important to have a gay espousing and normalizing curriculum, if homophobia is withering away, as you suggest?

That's easy.... cause some parents and old folk still like teaching hatred and discrimination. :cof:

 

[rtwngAvngr]

That's easy.... cause some parents and old folk still like teaching hatred and discrimination. :cof:

Teaching tolerance is fine. That means you teach you can't verbally or physically harm them. That's simle politness and decency. You guys have crossed the line and are ACTIVELY PROMOTING gayism. It's not your role, and your joy at doing so shows your open contempt for those with a different viewpoint than yours. DO you see what a nazi you are?

 

[jillian]

Teaching tolerance is fine. That means you teach you can't verbally or physically harm them. That's simle politness and decency. You guys have crossed the line and are ACTIVELY PROMOTING gayism. It's not your role, and your joy at doing so shows your open contempt for those with a different viewpoint than yours. DO you see what a nazi you are?

Nazi's....Noahides.... you really need to remove "N" words from your vocabulary. I think they confuse you.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Nazi's....Noahides.... you really need to remove "N" words from your vocabulary. I think they confuse you.

Nah.

 

[Hobbit]

I think I need to answer that in two parts:

They aren't being told about sodomy in graphic detail. And, anal sex is already a huge problem among teenagers (especially the ones taking the 'virginity pledge' as has been discussed on other threads). So it's not sodomy which seems to be a huge issue or abstinence only education would be stopped.

Uh, yes, they are. I've seen it with my own two eyes, and I would suggest that the problem with anal sex stems from the fact that schools are so graphic about it, not the other way around. When I was in health class in 9th grade, they had just begun to discuss it as regular curriculum because they were told they needed to give gays sex ed, too. At the time, most of us thought it was sick. By the time I graduated from high school, anal sex was quite a widespread problem, especially among people who thought it was 'safer' just because it couldn't get the girl pregnant.

And here's your bigger issue... but most younger people (except for the far right) could care less about their friends' sexuality or that of their parents.

It's a prejudice which, luckily, seems to be diminishing, if not dying out totally (hatred never does).

Just how it is. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

And here's where you live in a dream world. This may be true in your little fantasy world where everybody wants to get along, but I'm talking about the real, cruel, violent world we live in where a man my age can be convinced to kill himself just to take me out in the process because I'm an American.

First off, the not caring. In case you've forgotten, grade school students are cruel to the bone and will chastise a person for everything from the kind of clothes he wears to the shape of his nose. What makes you think gay parents aren't just fodder for the cannon.

Then there's the fact that teaching that gay families are 'equal' has no basis in fact. Children missing a parent of one gender (whether they have two 'parents' or not) grow up with a plethora of social problems and are far more likely to end up in jail, in an abusive relationship, poor, and/or drug addicted.

 

[liberalogic]

Gay activists don't want equal treatment; they want special treatment, and THEY want to reorder society to accomodate, normalize homosexuality. An example is the "Christian" churches that are changing their doctrine, not bc of the Bible, but bc of the desire to please and accomodate gays. The changes in society are coming from the gay point of view. Christianity USED to be the standard in this country.

I've never been for gay marriage through the church, nor do I believe that churches should be forced to embrace homosexuality. I could care less about the church's position on the issue because it's a private institution. But most gay activists that I've seen are not trying to change church policy, they want to change law. But your church can't be legally forced to accommodate gays; they just need to have a backbone and say no.

Gays (as a lobby) don't want to quietly have sex with each other and allow me to house my own personal beliefs. They want to change the laws/norms about marriage, age of consent, school curriculums. Parents are restricted as to the beliefs they want to pass on to their children; one man is in a lawsuit bc he simply wanted to be notified when they had gay presentations at school, so that his child could opt out. Gays do not want to simply let Christians alone to their beliefs; they want to ensure that the homosexual agenda is not only tolerated, but embraced.

First, let's talk about school curriculum. Teaching students to tolerate gays is completely appropriate. We learn not to discriminate based on skin color, eye color, religious views, etc.-- sexual preference should be included as well. Teaching children that you should tolerate gay parents also fits into this category. These ideas are not meant to make your kid gay or even to make him think that God likes gays, they're meant to ease the discriminatory tensions within society. Children should then be able to say: "Well, I'm not going to choose to live my life that way, but I'm not going to hate others for it."

With marriage laws, they just want the same privileges as you to help their union run as smoothly as possible and create a more stable environment. Again, this does not force you to be gay or even associate with gays; it just asks that you give them this freedom.

I'm not too familiar with the age of consent standards, so I really can't comment on that until I see the information.

I do not know any Christians who want to force Christianity on every person in the nation. Again, I don't know much about Luce, but the Christian lobbyists I am familiar with lobby for things like restrictions on abortion, preservation of traditional marriage, support for the war. I have never heard Christian lobbyists argue for an issue simply because "God said so." However, I don't think that Christians should have to hide the fact that belief in God shapes their beliefs about other issues.

The original intention, though, of this thread was about BattleCry's hopes to reform society as a whole, which you seemed to agree with. This would mean forcing Christianity down all of our throats.

I'm not asking you to not believe in Christ, or to watch sexually-charged television, or to listen to profane music, or to have sex before marriage, or to be gay, or to play violent video games. I'm not asking you to tell your child that all of the above are great. I'm saying live your life according to your beliefs, shelter your child if you feel it's necessary; but don't tell the rest of us that we can't do the above when you have the right to abstain from all of it if you choose.

 

[Nienna]

I've never been for gay marriage through the church, nor do I believe that churches should be forced to embrace homosexuality. I could care less about the church's position on the issue because it's a private institution. But most gay activists that I've seen are not trying to change church policy, they want to change law. But your church can't be legally forced to accommodate gays; they just need to have a backbone and say no.



First, let's talk about school curriculum. Teaching students to tolerate gays is completely appropriate. We learn not to discriminate based on skin color, eye color, religious views, etc.-- sexual preference should be included as well. Teaching children that you should tolerate gay parents also fits into this category. These ideas are not meant to make your kid gay or even to make him think that God likes gays, they're meant to ease the discriminatory tensions within society. Children should then be able to say: "Well, I'm not going to choose to live my life that way, but I'm not going to hate others for it."

With marriage laws, they just want the same privileges as you to help their union run as smoothly as possible and create a more stable environment. Again, this does not force you to be gay or even associate with gays; it just asks that you give them this freedom.

I'm not too familiar with the age of consent standards, so I really can't comment on that until I see the information.



The original intention, though, of this thread was about BattleCry's hopes to reform society as a whole, which you seemed to agree with. This would mean forcing Christianity down all of our throats.

I'm not asking you to not believe in Christ, or to watch sexually-charged television, or to listen to profane music, or to have sex before marriage, or to be gay, or to play violent video games. I'm not asking you to tell your child that all of the above are great. I'm saying live your life according to your beliefs, shelter your child if you feel it's necessary; but don't tell the rest of us that we can't do the above when you have the right to abstain from all of it if you choose.

The point that I was trying to make when I entered the thread is that Christian lobby groups have just as much right to lobby as other groups. But when Christians speak out, they are accused of trying to "ram religion down everyone's throat." My main idea is that Christians have as much right to lobby for their beliefs as other groups. And if some of their beliefs get codified into law, so be it.

 

[liberalogic]

The point that I was trying to make when I entered the thread is that Christian lobby groups have just as much right to lobby as other groups. But when Christians speak out, they are accused of trying to "ram religion down everyone's throat." My main idea is that Christians have as much right to lobby for their beliefs as other groups. And if some of their beliefs get codified into law, so be it.

My whole point is that your beliefs are your beliefs. But by lobbying or by making laws out of these beliefs, you're limiting others when it has nothing to do with you. No one is forcing you to live your life differently, but you're forcing others to live their lives differently.

I'll leave it at this:
Overbearing liberal activists are wrong to try to change your beliefs; they should simply ask that you do not impede upon their right to certain freedoms just because you do not decide to exercise them yourself.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

My whole point is that your beliefs are your beliefs. But by lobbying or by making laws out of these beliefs, you're limiting others when it has nothing to do with you. No one is forcing you to live your life differently, but you're forcing others to live their lives differently.

I'll leave it at this:
Overbearing liberal activists are wrong to try to change your beliefs; they should simply ask that you do not impede upon their right to certain freedoms just because you do not decide to exercise them yourself.

What IS a valid source for the creation of law, if not religion?

 

[Annie]

I've never been for gay marriage through the church, nor do I believe that churches should be forced to embrace homosexuality. I could care less about the church's position on the issue because it's a private institution. But most gay activists that I've seen are not trying to change church policy, they want to change law. But your church can't be legally forced to accommodate gays; they just need to have a backbone and say no.



First, let's talk about school curriculum. Teaching students to tolerate gays is completely appropriate. We learn not to discriminate based on skin color, eye color, religious views, etc.-- sexual preference should be included as well. Teaching children that you should tolerate gay parents also fits into this category. These ideas are not meant to make your kid gay or even to make him think that God likes gays, they're meant to ease the discriminatory tensions within society. Children should then be able to say: "Well, I'm not going to choose to live my life that way, but I'm not going to hate others for it."

With marriage laws, they just want the same privileges as you to help their union run as smoothly as possible and create a more stable environment. Again, this does not force you to be gay or even associate with gays; it just asks that you give them this freedom.

I'm not too familiar with the age of consent standards, so I really can't comment on that until I see the information. Why?



The original intention, though, of this thread was about BattleCry's hopes to reform society as a whole, which you seemed to agree with. This would mean forcing Christianity down all of our throats.

I'm not asking you to not believe in Christ, or to watch sexually-charged television, or to listen to profane music, or to have sex before marriage, or to be gay, or to play violent video games. I'm not asking you to tell your child that all of the above are great. I'm saying live your life according to your beliefs, shelter your child if you feel it's necessary; but don't tell the rest of us that we can't do the above when you have the right to abstain from all of it if you choose.

Why?

Teaching students to tolerate gays is completely appropriate. We learn not to discriminate based on skin color, eye color, religious views, etc.-- sexual preference should be included as well.

If the teacher thinks sex with dogs, pigs, donkeys, camels is cool, should they espouse that? Why not? What if they like 'it' with toes? Should they tell their students that? How about they like it to 'hurt'? A good thing, for your child? Should there be a curriculum that encompasses all life's deviancies? It's impossible.

Children should then be able to say: "Well, I'm not going to choose to live my life that way, but I'm not going to hate others for it."

As the previous example show, a kindergarten child, even a middle school child cannot have the experiences, we hope, to make a judgement on such. They should not be exposed to such.

With marriage laws, they just want the same privileges as you to help their union run as smoothly as possible and create a more stable environment. Again, this does not force you to be gay or even associate with gays; it just asks that you give them this freedom.

Now we are at the heart of the current, but not final, brouhaha. It's not up to 'mainstream' to codify the 'other' categories, it's only a recent phenomena that we are all supposed to bend down and pay homage to homosexuals. BTW, I haven't a problem with anyone of age doing whatever behind closed doors, which should remain closed, IMHO, from all levels of government.

 

[Nienna]

My whole point is that your beliefs are your beliefs. But by lobbying or by making laws out of these beliefs, you're limiting others when it has nothing to do with you. No one is forcing you to live your life differently, but you're forcing others to live their lives differently.

I'll leave it at this:
Overbearing liberal activists are wrong to try to change your beliefs; they should simply ask that you do not impede upon their right to certain freedoms just because you do not decide to exercise them yourself.

ALL laws are made out of SOMEONE'S beliefs. Why can't some of them be made out of mine?

And, I do not see how I am forcing gays to live their lives differently. I can't stop them from having homosexual sex in their own homes, and I wouldn't try to.

Studies in the Netherlands show that once gay "marriage" was legalized, the ENTIRE marriage rate fell. I'm sure there are some homosexuals who would "marry" and live their lives out together. However, the majority of homosexuals do not want commitment or restrictions on their sexual behavior, and monogamy is kinda the whole point of marriage.

So, changing the marriage laws to include homosexuals doesn't change their behavior.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Uh, yes, they are. I've seen it with my own two eyes, and I would suggest that the problem with anal sex stems from the fact that schools are so graphic about it, not the other way around. When I was in health class in 9th grade, they had just begun to discuss it as regular curriculum because they were told they needed to give gays sex ed, too. At the time, most of us thought it was sick. By the time I graduated from high school, anal sex was quite a widespread problem, especially among people who thought it was 'safer' just because it couldn't get the girl pregnant.



And here's where you live in a dream world. This may be true in your little fantasy world where everybody wants to get along, but I'm talking about the real, cruel, violent world we live in where a man my age can be convinced to kill himself just to take me out in the process because I'm an American.

First off, the not caring. In case you've forgotten, grade school students are cruel to the bone and will chastise a person for everything from the kind of clothes he wears to the shape of his nose. What makes you think gay parents aren't just fodder for the cannon.

Then there's the fact that teaching that gay families are 'equal' has no basis in fact. Children missing a parent of one gender (whether they have two 'parents' or not) grow up with a plethora of social problems and are far more likely to end up in jail, in an abusive relationship, poor, and/or drug addicted.

Actually, a large part of the problem lies with the simple fact that our schools fail to provide our children with the critical thinking skills they need to make sound decisions about sex, money, science, religion or anything else. All they serve up is rote memorization in preparation for standardized tests. And once the information is regurgitated, it's forgotten. Bring back education in the classics as well as a solid foundation in the basics, including human reproduction, and we'll be alot better off.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Actually, a large part of the problem lies with the simple fact that our schools fail to provide our children with the critical thinking skills they need to make sound decisions about sex, money, science, religion or anything else. All they serve up is rote memorization in preparation for standardized tests. And once the information is regurgitated, it's forgotten. Bring back education in the classics as well as a solid foundation in the basics, including human reproduction, and we'll be alot better off.

Don't forget the time wasted normalizing deviant lifestyles, and teaching politically correct lies.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Nah.

:teeth:

 

[rtwngAvngr]

:teeth:

Yay! Someone noticed my itty bitty joke! I'm on cloud nine, and it's all because of you, Abbey!

 

[Abbey Normal]

Yay! Someone noticed my itty bitty joke! I'm on cloud nine, and it's all because of you, Abbey!