Battlecry: Christian kids have lost it

[jillian]

More than a handful is a waste.

Heh! Good comeback.

The edit, however...not so much...

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The edit, however...not so much...

:rotflmao: I'm glad you saw that. It was one of my more proud and classy moments!

 

[jillian]

:rotflmao: I'm glad you saw that. It was one of my more proud and classy moments!

Not saying too much about your proud and classy moments, is it?

Hometime

Laterz.

 

[Nienna]

A couple of things:

First off, with censorship, I actually agree with you to a certain point. I'm not an anarchist and I do believe in sensitivity towards others' beliefs. Basic television (not cable/satellite tv), should be subject to standards because it is available to you when you plug your tv in. They have attempted to strengthen these standards with increased fines and the ratings that appear before the programs. If you're watching a children's show, then advertisements promoted during that slot should be more appropriate than a Sringer bit. But as the parent, once that time slot of children's tv is over, it should then be your responsibility to change it or turn it off. To me, that's a very fair compromise-- especially in your case because I would bet my life that you're a VERY responsible parent.

Thank you for the compliment.

When we delve into satellite television, though, it's no holds-barred. This is something that people pay extra to watch and they should be allowed to experience sex, drugs, violence and profanity all they want. But the beauty of these systems, though, is that you can control what your kids watch with one click of the remote.

And I do that.

As for gays kissing, I'm sorry, but you just have to deal with that. That stems beyond marriage and to PERSONAL freedom. You and I alike have the right to be revolted by it, but we have no right to stop them. If you want them to do it in their houses only, then so does everyone else. And if you feel the need to explain it to your children, acludem's post is a FANTASTIC way to do so.

But, the fact that I DO have to deal with it is just the crux of my argument. I understand that I have to deal with things contrary to MY beliefs; however, other "special" groups enjoy acceptance and accomodation in the culture. People seem to think that Christians should closet their beliefs. Observe the criticism Bush received in the media regarding his prayer over going to war, or more accurately, the public statement that he prayed over going to war.

The price of preserving innocence AT ALL costs, undermines the freedom that we have as Americans. We should be more sensitive to it, but it's not worth sacrificing freedom to the extent that you desire.

I'm not sure if I agree with you or not, here. I suppose I would need a specific circumstance before I could make up my mind.

And I understand why you and other conservatives are turned off by many liberal activists. I see and hear them too. They often come across as arrogant and sometimes irrational, which distorts the meaning of their ideas. Again, though, you are open to practice christianity freely. But christian activists are attempting to put limits on EVERYONE, not just themselves. I just want to put limits on guns (and I don't even want to eliminate them, just make sure the right people get them).

ALL laws put limits on people. Why should Christians be criticized for lobbying to have their beliefs codified? Gay activists lobby to have the age of consent lowered, anti-war groups lobby to bring the troops home. Some lobbies are more successful than others, usually (but not always) because they are more popular. What I am seeing in this thread is people criticizing Christians for simply speaking out, for attempting to have their voices heard.

 

[Nienna]

Thanks for proving my point that some people are unable to grasp the concept of appropriate time and place.

Why send Christian kids to school at all? They can worship uninterrupted by such mundane things as math and science and English at home and the resulting reduction of burden on our school system will have at least two benefits. We can drastically cut funding since there'll be an approximately 90% drop in the number of students AND the teachers can put more individual time into the teaching of each of the remaining students.

I'll wager you think your employer should have no problem if you spend the 8 hours you get paid for pursuing your personal worship instead of doing your job too.

Learning math & English can be acts of worship.

 

[Nienna]

Isn't the DARE program an admission that innocence is lost ever more early these days? After all they are educating the children, as early as the third or fourth grade on drug use, and the dangers that it poses. To me, that's not a topic that I normally would associate with the typical lifestyle say 50 years ago.

DARE is a testament to what I'm saying.

Let's face the facts here:

If you're not educating your kids about sex, drugs, the dangers posed by strangers, and the other dangers in the world, than someone else already is. Whether its the media, or the teacher, or their friends, or their friends' parent. It's happening whether you want it to or not. And you know, for the most part, its not that terrible of a thing. Why people wait to explain sex until puberty is beyond me. It certainly doesnt help a kid to not know whats going to happen to them beforehand. But you know, thats your right as a parent, and if you want to allow your kid to be raised by other people and their viewpoints then thats your decision as well.

That is exactly my point. I DON'T want my kids to be raised by other people and their viewpoints. However, my kids are exposed to these things without my consent or knowledge.

Let me ask you this: Say you know a tsunami is headed toward a coastal town. Do you say, "Oh well, the town is going to be destroyed, anyway," and just go about your business? Or do you try to persude the inhabitants to evacuate? They may not all get away, maybe NONE of them will get away. But, shouldn't we at least try?

 

[GotZoom]

Thank you for the compliment.

And I do that.

But, the fact that I DO have to deal with it is just the crux of my argument. I understand that I have to deal with things contrary to MY beliefs; however, other "special" groups enjoy acceptance and accomodation in the culture. People seem to think that Christians should closet their beliefs. Observe the criticism Bush received in the media regarding his prayer over going to war, or more accurately, the public statement that he prayed over going to war.

I'm not sure if I agree with you or not, here. I suppose I would need a specific circumstance before I could make up my mind.

ALL laws put limits on people. Why should Christians be criticized for lobbying to have their beliefs codified? Gay activists lobby to have the age of consent lowered, anti-war groups lobby to bring the troops home. Some lobbies are more successful than others, usually (but not always) because they are more popular. What I am seeing in this thread is people criticizing Christians for simply speaking out, for attempting to have their voices heard.

Christian bashing is the Cause du jour.

If they "bash" any other religion, it is considered being prejudice.

 

[Nienna]

I agree with pseudoghost in that kids are going to learn this stuff earlier and lose their innocence anyway. In my mind, it would be smarter for a parent to present these issues in a clear, appropriate way. That's just my opinion.

But policy-wise, though I disagree with a parent's approach to completely "protect" their children, I still respect it as a good-hearted approach and a personal freedom that we should be somewhat sensitive to (as I said before about appropriate commercials, etc.).

I believe that preparation is a form of protection. However, this should be on the parents' timetable, as they are the ones best acquainted with their childrens' maturity levels.

 

[5stringJeff]

Oh great. Jeff, can you take on these guys? I've my hands full with the jews right now.

Christianity Today actually does a great job of highlighting Hindu violence against Christians in South Asia.

 

[Nienna]

If you think that everything that you do is worship, that's fine. Just don't make us stop the school day for kids to pray.

That practice was stopped (for Christians) decades ago.

 

[MissileMan]

Learning math & English can be acts of worship.

Then Christian children ARE being allowed to worship at school...what's the problem?

 

[Nienna]

What actions do you consider included in worship?

Anything I do in obedience to God. The reason I said "some" actions is because not all my actions are obedient. However, any action, if done with an obedient, grateful heart, with the intention of pleasing God, is an act of worship. That's why I said doing English & Math can be an act of worship.

 

[Nienna]

Oh great. Jeff, can you take on these guys? I've my hands full with the jews right now.

:rotflmao:

 

[Abbey Normal]

John writing what Jesus revealed to him, through an angel, about what you could call "pew-sitters":

Revelation 3:
13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.

14 "To the angel of the assembly in Laodicea write: "The Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Head of God's creation, says these things:

15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot.

16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

 

[Nienna]

Then Christian children ARE being allowed to worship at school...what's the problem?

The problem is that they are looked down upon for their beliefs, that people who preach "tolerance" will only tolerate Christian beliefs as long as you can't tell it's a specifically Christian action.

 

[liberalogic]

But, the fact that I DO have to deal with it is just the crux of my argument. I understand that I have to deal with things contrary to MY beliefs; however, other "special" groups enjoy acceptance and accomodation in the culture. People seem to think that Christians should closet their beliefs. Observe the criticism Bush received in the media regarding his prayer over going to war, or more accurately, the public statement that he prayed over going to war.

Accommodating your beliefs, though, is restricting others. I'll use the gay issue again because it adequately explains my point within the religious context of the discussion.

Gay people just want equal treatment. They don't need you to be gay or even accept the lifestyle. Also, they're not telling you that you can't or shouldn't be christian. Yet, you are trying to reform society to tell them what they can or can't be. It's not a fair balance. YOU are not being restricted, but you are restricting them.

[

B]ALL[/B] laws put limits on people. Why should Christians be criticized for lobbying to have their beliefs codified? Gay activists lobby to have the age of consent lowered, anti-war groups lobby to bring the troops home. Some lobbies are more successful than others, usually (but not always) because they are more popular. What I am seeing in this thread is people criticizing Christians for simply speaking out, for attempting to have their voices heard.

Besides the first ammendment, here is why. We do not all agree to believe in the same God or even any God at all. Rationaliizing an issue because God said it, can NEVER be fair to those who don't believe or believe in something else.

Anti-war activists want to bring troops home so they don't die. Pro-war activists want to leave troops in battle to finish a job. The two sides of this argument are based on reason, not religion. "Because God said so..." is never a fair debate.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Accommodating your beliefs, though, is restricting others. I'll use the gay issue again because it adequately explains my point within the religious context of the discussion.

Gay people just want equal treatment. They don't need you to be gay or even accept the lifestyle. Also, they're not telling you that you can't or shouldn't be christian. Yet, you are trying to reform society to tell them what they can or can't be. It's not a fair balance. YOU are not being restricted, but you are restricting them.

[

Besides the first ammendment, here is why. We do not all agree to believe in the same God or even any God at all. Rationaliizing an issue because God said it, can NEVER be fair to those who don't believe or believe in something else.

Anti-war activists want to bring troops home so they don't die. Pro-war activists want to leave troops in battle to finish a job. The two sides of this argument are based on reason, not religion. "Because God said so..." is never a fair debate.

Wrong ll. Public schools have taken it upon themselves to normalize sexual preferences. that's not their role. They're overstepping.

 

[jillian]

The problem is that the same arguments were made when schools and other facilities were desegregated....

The average person under 40 could care less about whether someone is gay or not. And that's the real reason that many people hate not being able to discriminate.

 

[Hobbit]

The problem is that the same arguments were made when schools and other facilities were desegregated....

The average person under 40 could care less about whether someone is gay or not. And that's the real reason that many people hate not being able to discriminate.

The average person under 40 also doesn't want his kids being told about sodomy in graphic detail, doesn't want their kids indoctrinated on how families with 'two dads' are just as good as traditional families, and especially doesn't want the school passing out questionnares to determine how gay they are. There's a fine line between preaching tolerance and proselytizing for an unpopular cause. Public schools can't even see the line anymore.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The problem is that the same arguments were made when schools and other facilities were desegregated....

The average person under 40 could care less about whether someone is gay or not. And that's the real reason that many people hate not being able to discriminate.

No, jillian. The public shool has no right to normalize lifestyles. Public schools should not be in the "values" business at all. Your contempt for people is showing.