Barack Obama is the foreign policy realist.

[editec]

Everyone agrees that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake, but it was a mistake this entire country made. Not a mistake Bush made. Not a mistake Cheney made. Not a mistake McCain made. Not a mistake Clinton made. Not a mistake I made. A mistake we made as a collective democracy.

Well...as far as Congress goes, that is mostly right.

But there were people in the the military and the intelligence community who warned us about the pitfalls of this policy. they were ignored, marginalized and forced to retire, too.

In a post 9/11 world, this country cried out for action against possible terrorists, including Iraq. It was the RIGHT choice based on the information we had at the time.

You mean it was the right choice given the cherry picked information we were being fed by neo con idealogues?

In hindsight, the information was bad.

In hindsight, we find that we were propagandized to by idealogues, you mean?

Or do you still believe that the POTUS didn't know that his advisors were systematically eliminating all decenting voices in his government?

Because I might be able to buy that...that Bush was out of the loop, and that his own closest advisors were actually running the show by controlling information that he got to see.

But as to your theory that the best information avialable to our government being that Saddam was an immediate nuclear threat?

No, we know that wasn't true, now. And we should have know that then, too.

Some who were in positions to know the truth, knew it, they told this admin. the truth, and were punished for not being TEAM PLAYERS.

This team player mindset, incidently, is why I think America's obsession with organized sports is a tragic mistake for our culture, too, BTW.

It rewards group think, and punishes independent thinkers at ever turn.

 

[DiamondDave]

I don't see what else McCain's refusal to negotiate will accomplish. Many conservatives even concede a vote for McCain is a vote for war with Iran. Just ask George Will.

Show us what negotiating point will move a whack-job government run by a despot ad group of others determined to eliminate Israel and support terrorism...

What do you negotiate? Only wiping out 1/2 of Israel? Supporting only terrorist actions against republicans? Only oppressing women 1/2 the time?

No, Obamabot, certain whack-jobs you do not negotiate with... you lay down the line

 

[timmeh]

Show us what negotiating point will move a whack-job government run by a despot ad group of others determined to eliminate Israel and support terrorism...

What do you negotiate? Only wiping out 1/2 of Israel? Supporting only terrorist actions against republicans? Only oppressing women 1/2 the time?

No, Obamabot, certain whack-jobs you do not negotiate with... you lay down the line

So your solution is "blow 'em up"? Do you actually think it's OK to bomb a country and start a nuclear war killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians just because the country doesn't agree with you?

 

[editec]

We had Saddam fairly effectively neutered militarily and isolated economically, too.

We should have stayed that course and focused on tracking down the Al Qada threat.

 

[jreeves]

We had Saddam fairly effectively neutered militarily and isolated economically, too.

We should have stayed that course and focused on tracking down the Al Qada threat.

Do you believe that AQ collaberators were in Iraq? Do you think if Saddam did in fact have WMD's he would have thought twice about attacking the US through these collaberators of AQ?

 

[DiamondDave]

So your solution is "blow 'em up"? Do you actually think it's OK to bomb a country and start a nuclear war killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians just because the country doesn't agree with you?

Again.. a lib taking a comment made by a conservative to the extreme, in a feeble attempt to sway the argument they have already lost

Funny... did not say that you inherently 'blow them up'... but that you take a hard line stance with these despot and whack-job radical governments.... you don't negotiate... as stated... what do you negotiate with them? Only destroying 1/2 of Israel?

 

[DiamondDave]

We had Saddam fairly effectively neutered militarily and isolated economically, too.

We should have stayed that course and focused on tracking down the Al Qada threat.

Yet he and his regime continually violated the terms of cease fire which were in place to keep the 'peace'... HIS violations... thus opening the door for justifiably finishing the job that should have been finished the first time around

 

[wihosa]

4,000 dead, 30,000 wounded, and $700 billion dollars wasted to set up a Shia government in Iraq allied with Iran.

How did the Republicans plan work out?

Clearly the biggest foreign policy mistake in American history.

Hey I've got an idea! Let's have the guys who thought STARTING A WAR in Iraq was a good idea be in charge of our next foreign policy decisions.

 

[jreeves]

Clearly the biggest foreign policy mistake in American history.

Hey I've got an idea! Let's have the guys who thought STARTING A WAR in Iraq was a good idea be in charge of our next foreign policy decisions.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5p-qIq32m8&feature=related]YouTube - Democrats before Iraq War started....[/ame]

 

[dilloduck]

Clearly the biggest foreign policy mistake in American history.

Hey I've got an idea! Let's have the guys who thought STARTING A WAR in Iraq was a good idea be in charge of our next foreign policy decisions.

ya ya--and at one time buying Alaska was one the dumbest things America ever did. And then it was Viet Nam. etc etc etc. How about importing and buying slaves? That seems to have been pretty damn dumb.
Don't understimate us. We are surely able to do something in the future that will become the new "dumbest thing America has ever done"

 

[wihosa]

ya ya--and at one time buying Alaska was one the dumbest things America ever did. And then it was Viet Nam. etc etc etc. How about importing and buying slaves? That seems to have been pretty damn dumb.
Don't understimate us. We are surely able to do something in the future that will become the new "dumbest thing America has ever done"

You are right, we're capable of making more mistakes, but why would we listen to those who have proven themselves so mistake prone?

 

[Larkinn]

Do you believe that AQ collaberators were in Iraq? Do you think if Saddam did in fact have WMD's he would have thought twice about attacking the US through these collaberators of AQ?

Saddam was a brutal dictator, but he wasn't retarded. He was never going to attack the US.

Oh, and Saddam and AQ didn't exactly get along.

 

[dilloduck]

Saddam was a brutal dictator, but he wasn't retarded. He was never going to attack the US.

Right--he just tried to assasinate our president--no biggie.

 

[dilloduck]

You are right, we're capable of making more mistakes, but why would we listen to those who have proven themselves so mistake prone?

It's never stopped us before.

 

[jreeves]

Saddam was a brutal dictator, but he wasn't retarded. He was never going to attack the US.

Oh, and Saddam and AQ didn't exactly get along.

CNN - Bin Laden reportedly leaves Afghanistan, whereabouts unknown - February 13, 1999
Saddam Hussein offered asylum

Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has offered asylum to bin Laden, who openly supports Iraq against the Western powers.

Report Details Saddam's Terrorist Ties - March 14, 2008 - The New York Sun
600,000 documents captured in the Iraq war attests to Saddam Hussein's willingness to use terrorism to target Americans and work closely with jihadist organizations throughout the Middle East.

The report, released this week by the Institute for Defense Analyses, says it found no "smoking gun" linking Iraq operationally to Al Qaeda. But it does say Saddam collaborated with known Al Qaeda affiliates and a wider constellation of Islamist terror groups.

 

[jillian]

would love for you to share barack hussein obama's plan.

oh wait, you cant call a collection of words a speech writer wrote for barack hussein obama's terms.

i think you misunderestimate him.

if obama spoke like the imbecile you voted for twice, you'd say he was a subliterate..... a black guy who's dynamic, charismatic, intelligent and wellspoken .. that must really bug you and the other skinheads.

now run along and use his middle name again

 

[jreeves]

i think you misunderestimate him.

if obama spoke like the imbecile you voted for twice, you'd say he was a subliterate..... a black guy who's dynamic, charismatic, intelligent and wellspoken .. that must really bug you and the other skinheads.
now run along and use his middle name again

Of course anyone who doesn't support him can be reduced to "skinheads".

 

[jillian]

Of course anyone who doesn't support him can be reduced to "skinheads".

difference between not supporrting someone and trying to draw some type of muslm allusion by the use of a middle name that belonged to his father.

and i didn't say that to you, did I? I referred the comment to a specific person who has made repeated racist comments.

and yes, i find that ugly.

 

[Larkinn]

Right--he just tried to assasinate our president--no biggie.

Well, he could have just nuked us too, right?

The Raw Story | Pentagon report finds no evidence of Saddam attempt to assassinate Bush

Too bad a Pentagon report found NO evidence that the assassination attempt ever happened.

 

[Larkinn]

CNN - Bin Laden reportedly leaves Afghanistan, whereabouts unknown - February 13, 1999
Saddam Hussein offered asylum

Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has offered asylum to bin Laden, who openly supports Iraq against the Western powers.

Oh, well that means they were best buddies. Thats not just Saddam trying to stick a thorn in the US's side.

Report Details Saddam's Terrorist Ties - March 14, 2008 - The New York Sun
600,000 documents captured in the Iraq war attests to Saddam Hussein's willingness to use terrorism to target Americans and work closely with jihadist organizations throughout the Middle East.

The report, released this week by the Institute for Defense Analyses, says it found no "smoking gun" linking Iraq operationally to Al Qaeda. But it does say Saddam collaborated with known Al Qaeda affiliates and a wider constellation of Islamist terror groups.

I like the part where it says there was nothing to link Iraq operationally to AQ. Thanks for backing me up Jreeves.