Bachman: John Quincy Adams - Founding father at nine years old.

[rdean]

That is what you are referring to?

She specifically talks about John Quincy Adams working with his father, who was a founding father.

She calls him a young boy.

She says he was a FOUNDING FATHER.

Why can't you people ever admit you are wrong?

Sure. She thinks he is a founding father at 9. Or perhaps she couldn't articulate herself well as Stephanopoulos goes after her.

If she wasn't articulate, I couldn't care less.

I don't think she would be in the position she is in if she were stupid.


You can underestimate and ridicule her all you would like. I don't think she'll lose sleep knowing she hasn't captured your ever important vote.

Kids grew up faster in those days. Look at this guy. He's 8 years old.

 

[Sallow]

Of course that would be optimal. It wasn't going to happen. The anti-slavery group didn't have the numbers in that year. They could have stalemated and not created anything. That would have been great for our country's history.

That's not the fucking point.

The point is the history re-write.

You are entitled to your opinion..just not your own fact.

What is the point?


Oh that is right. A trite Bash Bachmann thread.


There is one right below this one. I better hurry and contribute to that one while it's hot.

It's not trite.

Tea partiers like the march around in tri-cornered hats blathering about how much "better" this country was way back in the day. And then they get some pretty key elements of the history completely wrong. Some of the founders had slaves. Slavery goes back further then the revolution. And it continued on for almost another century. That's not trival but it seems Ms. Bachmann was to minimalize it's impact or add a new "perspective" to it.

She didn't simply say, "Opps, I goofed"...she defended her "mistake". This isn't her only "Gaffe" either..she's said a crapload of things..that coming from anyone else would be deemed lunacy.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9bvreW08X0]YouTube - ‪Michele Bachmann Says The Darndest Things‬‏[/ame]

 

[Provocateur]

Smart conservative women really scare you, huh?

I wonder why historians are so confused about what a founding father is?

The Founding Fathers of the United States of America were political leaders and statesmen who participated in the American Revolution by signing the United States Declaration of Independence, taking part in the American Revolutionary War, establishing the United States Constitution, or by some other key contribution. Within the large group known as the "Founding Fathers", there are two key subsets: the "Signers of the Declaration of Independence" (who signed the United States Declaration of Independence in 1776) and the Framers of the Constitution (who were delegates to the Federal Convention and took part in framing or drafting the proposed Constitution of the United States).

Most historians define the "Founding Fathers" to mean a larger group, including not only the Signers and the Framers but also all those who, whether as politicians, jurists, statesmen, soldiers, diplomats, or ordinary citizens, took part in winning American independence and creating the United States of America.

Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


To note, I tend to be in the same category as yourself in thinking of only those that drafted the Declaration of Independence and those that drafted the Constitution, but it seems other people include a rather large group of individuals, which would include John Quincy Adams.

I quoted her elsewhere where she calls him a forebearer. That, to me and you, would be more accurate. However, some historians might take issue with our definition.

 

[Sallow]

Smart conservative women really scare you, huh?

I wonder why historians are so confused about what a founding father is?

The Founding Fathers of the United States of America were political leaders and statesmen who participated in the American Revolution by signing the United States Declaration of Independence, taking part in the American Revolutionary War, establishing the United States Constitution, or by some other key contribution. Within the large group known as the "Founding Fathers", there are two key subsets: the "Signers of the Declaration of Independence" (who signed the United States Declaration of Independence in 1776) and the Framers of the Constitution (who were delegates to the Federal Convention and took part in framing or drafting the proposed Constitution of the United States).

Most historians define the "Founding Fathers" to mean a larger group, including not only the Signers and the Framers but also all those who, whether as politicians, jurists, statesmen, soldiers, diplomats, or ordinary citizens, took part in winning American independence and creating the United States of America.

Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


To note, I tend to be in the same category as yourself in thinking of only those that drafted the Declaration of Independence and those that drafted the Constitution, but it seems other people include a rather large group of individuals, which would include John Quincy Adams.

I quoted her elsewhere where she calls him a forebearer. That, to me and you, would be more accurate. However, some historians might take issue with our definition.

Completely misses the point. Completely.

Her original contention was that "the founders" worked tirelessly to rid the colonies of slavery. THAT didn't happen. Even Washington and Jefferson, who both were not comfortable with slavery, owned slaves until they died. Jefferson may have had a child or two with his slaves.

She THEN tries to include a man who DID work tirelessly against slavery..decades after the revolution..as a FOUNDER. This isn't a smart thing to do. And it defines another "quality" we've seen before.

The inability of Conservatives to ever admit error. And that's a huge flaw.

 

[Provocateur]

Smart conservative women really scare you, huh?

I wonder why historians are so confused about what a founding father is?

The Founding Fathers of the United States of America were political leaders and statesmen who participated in the American Revolution by signing the United States Declaration of Independence, taking part in the American Revolutionary War, establishing the United States Constitution, or by some other key contribution. Within the large group known as the "Founding Fathers", there are two key subsets: the "Signers of the Declaration of Independence" (who signed the United States Declaration of Independence in 1776) and the Framers of the Constitution (who were delegates to the Federal Convention and took part in framing or drafting the proposed Constitution of the United States).

Most historians define the "Founding Fathers" to mean a larger group, including not only the Signers and the Framers but also all those who, whether as politicians, jurists, statesmen, soldiers, diplomats, or ordinary citizens, took part in winning American independence and creating the United States of America.

Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


To note, I tend to be in the same category as yourself in thinking of only those that drafted the Declaration of Independence and those that drafted the Constitution, but it seems other people include a rather large group of individuals, which would include John Quincy Adams.

I quoted her elsewhere where she calls him a forebearer. That, to me and you, would be more accurate. However, some historians might take issue with our definition.

Completely misses the point. Completely.

Her original contention was that "the founders" worked tirelessly to rid the colonies of slavery. THAT didn't happen. Even Washington and Jefferson, who both were not comfortable with slavery, owned slaves until they died. Jefferson may have had a child or two with his slaves.

She THEN tries to include a man who DID work tirelessly against slavery..decades after the revolution..as a FOUNDER. This isn't a smart thing to do. And it defines another "quality" we've seen before.

The inability of Conservatives to ever admit error. And that's a huge flaw.

So you don't have a clue about what Jefferson did to help end slavery. I get that...you have a narrative to tell.

Good night.

 

[oldsalt]

um he really had no part in the founding. His father did.

I think he did have a part in the founding. It may have been a small part, but he was alive during the period and assisted his Father

Furthermore, just how is the term "Founding Father" defined? Do only the signers of the Declaration of Independence qualify? That would leave out George Washington and numerous others heroes of the Revolution. There is no hard definition of the term, so any pompous proclamations about who is "Founding Father" are just so much hot air.

The apologists are amazing.

 

[Sallow]

Smart conservative women really scare you, huh?

I wonder why historians are so confused about what a founding father is?


Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


To note, I tend to be in the same category as yourself in thinking of only those that drafted the Declaration of Independence and those that drafted the Constitution, but it seems other people include a rather large group of individuals, which would include John Quincy Adams.

I quoted her elsewhere where she calls him a forebearer. That, to me and you, would be more accurate. However, some historians might take issue with our definition.

Completely misses the point. Completely.

Her original contention was that "the founders" worked tirelessly to rid the colonies of slavery. THAT didn't happen. Even Washington and Jefferson, who both were not comfortable with slavery, owned slaves until they died. Jefferson may have had a child or two with his slaves.

She THEN tries to include a man who DID work tirelessly against slavery..decades after the revolution..as a FOUNDER. This isn't a smart thing to do. And it defines another "quality" we've seen before.

The inability of Conservatives to ever admit error. And that's a huge flaw.

So you don't have a clue about what Jefferson did to help end slavery. I get that...you have a narrative to tell.

Good night.

You're kidding, right?

At his death, Jefferson was greatly in debt, in part due to his continued construction program.[64] The debts encumbered his estate, and his family had to sell the slaves from Monticello to pay his creditors.[62][65]

Jefferson freed only five slaves in his will, all males of the Hemings family: Madison and Eston Hemings, the younger sons of Sally Hemings, to be freed at age 21 (Madison was freed almost immediately and Eston was "given his time" so that he was freed before he was 21); her half-brother John Hemings, and her nephews Joseph (Joe) Fossett and Burwell Colbert.[66] He gave Burwell Colbert, who had served as his butler and valet, $300 for purchasing supplies used in the trade of "painter and glazier". He freed John Hemings and Joe Fossett, who were each given an acre on Jefferson's lands to build homes for their families. Because Jefferson did not free Fossett's wife or their eight children, they were sold to four different slave owners. Fossett worked for years to buy them back to give them freedom. Jefferson requested the state legislature allow the freed men to remain in Virginia to be with their families, who remained enslaved under Jefferson's heirs.[66]

In 1827, an auction of 130 slaves took place at Monticello. The sale lasted for five days despite the cold weather. The slaves brought prices over 70% of their appraised value. Within three years, all of the black families at Monticello had been sold and dispersed.[67]

Thomas Jefferson and slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[editec]

She says he was a FOUNDING FATHER.

Why can't you people ever admit you are wrong?

He was 20 when the Constitution was signed. What definition of "Founding Father" rules out John Quincy Adams?

He was not a member of any of the public safety committees, neither was a signer of the Declartion of Independce, neither did he hold any position in the war of independence.

If anything JQ Adams was a Founding SON.

Bachman misspoke and then, when challenged, she dug herself in even deeper by trying to mitigate her error.

Well...history never was one of the GOP's strong suits.


And admitting when they're wrong is definitely NOT something todays neoc-ns are every likely do do.

 

[Liberty]

the left wing idiots in this thread ignore everything that destroys their argument like it isnt even there. its frustrating...fucking internet anonymity sucks id like to debate these idiots face to face so they have no choice but to yield to reason...but alas here we are...where doorknob lickers like swalla and uscit roam...free of anything rooted in reality eating cheetos in their parents basements hoping that a girlfriend might show up in their lap to tell them how special and smart they are. yep, i know this kind all too well.

 

[candycorn]

the left wing idiots in this thread ignore everything that destroys their argument like it isnt even there. its frustrating...fucking internet anonymity sucks id like to debate these idiots face to face so they have no choice but to yield to reason...but alas here we are...where doorknob lickers like swalla and uscit roam...free of anything rooted in reality eating cheetos in their parents basements hoping that a girlfriend might show up in their lap to tell them how special and smart they are. yep, i know this kind all too well.

Yeah from looking in the mirror.

 

[Seawytch]

the left wing idiots in this thread ignore everything that destroys their argument like it isnt even there. its frustrating...fucking internet anonymity sucks id like to debate these idiots face to face so they have no choice but to yield to reason...but alas here we are...where doorknob lickers like swalla and uscit roam...free of anything rooted in reality eating cheetos in their parents basements hoping that a girlfriend might show up in their lap to tell them how special and smart they are. yep, i know this kind all too well.

Why would someone have to yield to your twisted version of "reason" just because they were faced with you? What more compelling argument do you think you could make in person that you can't seem to make now?

Is it that you "know this kind all too well" because you were doing a little "self portrait" there?

 

[edthecynic]

She says he was a FOUNDING FATHER.

Why can't you people ever admit you are wrong?

He was 20 when the Constitution was signed. What definition of "Founding Father" rules out John Quincy Adams?

Every definition except Moochele's!

The strictest definition is the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention, and the broadest definition includes the signers of the Declaration of Independence and the Articles of the Confederation, the delegates to the Constitutional Convention, and the members of the First Federal Congress, 204 unique individuals, none of whom are John Quincy Adams.

 

[Liberty]

the left wing idiots in this thread ignore everything that destroys their argument like it isnt even there. its frustrating...fucking internet anonymity sucks id like to debate these idiots face to face so they have no choice but to yield to reason...but alas here we are...where doorknob lickers like swalla and uscit roam...free of anything rooted in reality eating cheetos in their parents basements hoping that a girlfriend might show up in their lap to tell them how special and smart they are. yep, i know this kind all too well.

Yeah from looking in the mirror.

no, i attend public university filled with idiots like you

 

[Sallow]

the left wing idiots in this thread ignore everything that destroys their argument like it isnt even there. its frustrating...fucking internet anonymity sucks id like to debate these idiots face to face so they have no choice but to yield to reason...but alas here we are...where doorknob lickers like swalla and uscit roam...free of anything rooted in reality eating cheetos in their parents basements hoping that a girlfriend might show up in their lap to tell them how special and smart they are. yep, i know this kind all too well.

Yeah from looking in the mirror.

no, i attend public university filled with idiots like you

Making friends..where ever you go.

 

[Liberty]

Yeah from looking in the mirror.

no, i attend public university filled with idiots like you

Making friends..where ever you go.

choosing to not make friends with idiots. seems like a smart move to those of us capable of independent thought.

 

[saltshaker]

Alot of this thread has been about evil right wing republicans and what did they do to oppose slavery in those early years. Well to that I'll say "Not much". Having said that, let's move up to umm say 1870 when we had 23 blacks (OOOPS), er African Americans in the House Of Representitves. One of them becoming Speaker of the House in 1874. He served in the House btween 1870 and 1879. He also served on the Committee on Indian Affairs.

Now lets move to the 1960's. Her'e's some loveable left wing fellows we call democrats.

Theophilus Eugene Connor
Cecil Ray Price
Orval Faubus
Jimmy Davis
George Wallace (Not the Black (OOPS) er African American comedian one, But the Govenor one.

There's Bad and Good people in ever stage of our history. Sometimes people are treated bad because they're black, sometimes because they're white. But these days 'MOST TIMES' people are treated bad because they're ASSHOLES and sometimes the person treating people bad is an ASSHOLE. Gotta take things on an individual basis.