CDZ At What Point Does Obstruction and Denial Of Reality Become Unamerican? The Playbook for 2018

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Shrimpbox, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. Shrimpbox
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    Shrimpbox Gold Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Possible 4% growth this quarter. Wages increasing. Unemployment in the minority precincts way down. Illegal immigration down 80%. Businesses adding jobs and plants. Regulations down. Trade deals more fair. Us standing in the world much improved. Possibly tax bill set to repatriate trillions of dollars, blow the doors off corporations with a 20% tax rate, explosion of growth in jobs. Renewed respect across the globe for us leadership. An optimism in this country not seen in decades.

    Please ask if the democrats have done anything to promote the economic progress. They don’t want Americans to have affordable health insurance. They don’t want to help the middle class. They don’t want to make the tax system fairer. They don’t want to create jobs for the middle class. They don’t want to protect Americans from illegal aliens. They don’t want to let corporations create more jobs. They don’t want to be proud of America. They don’t want to support their president in anything.

    Trump takes all the flack while his team of high rollers raises the country to new heights. What are Dems going to say? We tried to keep the country from succeeding in every way we could. We tried to keep the middle class down. We tried to keep people from being proud of their country. We tried to extinguish the American spirit every way we could. We sought to bring America to its knees and make Americans hate themselves. We sowed hate at every opportunity and we failed at every turn. Vote for us.

    We are going to find out which democrats are Americans, and which democrats hate the American Dream.
     
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  2. FA_Q2
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    FA_Q2 Gold Member

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    It is all a matter of perspective. The democrats will say that all the positive outcomes this year are due squarely to Obama's policies (while blaming all failures on Trump).

    Claiming that they are un-American is no better or different than the left blindly calling so many on the right sexist, homophobic or racists. Both only serve to suppress open discussion through denigrating the other side.
     
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  3. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    All of the above are things Trump did nothing to effect. We put those things "on the left" side of his "T-account" for one existential reason not for any causal ones.

    Trump's Administration has cut regulations. Whether there accrues to the U.S. a net benefit (all factors considered -- social, economic, legal, environmental, etc.) from his having done so remains to be seen.

    Saying "regulations down" is like saying " it's raining" inasmuch as sometimes and for some people, it's good that it's raining and sometimes and for some people it's not. Merely saying that it's raining is of very little long term value.

    What trade deals has Trump negotiated, signed and seen ratified that are "more fair" than the trade deals they supercede?

    By what credible analysis? Merely saying that is so does not make it be so.

    Unhatched chickens being counted.

    Just bothering to look at what be corporate taxation rates around the world, one finds at least twenty nations, many in Europe, that have marginal corporate tax rates well below the 20% the GOP plan proposes and fourteen nations that have zero corporate income taxes. (It's worth noting too that while marginal rates may be 10%-12% in some European countries, Ireland in particular, the effective rate can be a good deal lower; it's around 8.5% in Ireland.)

    Now you tell me...As a multibillion dollar multinational public corporation committed to maximizing profits for its owners, how does paying 8% or more in corporate income taxes to U.S. than it would pay to lower tax jurisdictions' treasuries do anything to "repatriate" dollars? Sorry, but I don't know a single CFO or stockholder who thinks patriotism is worth 8%+ of several billion to hundreds of billions of dollars.

    Did you in the time it too to get from the start of your paragraph to the end that you'd already mentioned the two things below?

    Asking the question is of no value if one doesn't also answer it. As goes whether more often things that happen under Democratic presidents than under Republican ones result in the greatest boosts to the U.S. economy is not a matter of debate. The U.S. economy has done markedly better under post-WWI Democratic Administrations than it has under GOP Administrations.

    The economy rose out of the recession it was in when Obama took office. Bill Clinton actually reduced deficits.

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    (Source)
     
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  4. Esmeralda
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    Esmeralda Diamond Member

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    Economists say that the administration of a president and its policies do not have immediate effect on the economy, that it takes time, sometimes years, which is why people say that what is occuring in the economy now is down to Obama's policies. It is too soon to see the effects of Trump's policies on the economy.
     
  5. Two Thumbs
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    Two Thumbs Platinum Member

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    On npr, about 2 weeks ago, they were talking about how we should fear amazon, google, apple and a few other companies b/c they were now supporting tech, r&d, medical research with loans, investments and donations.

    the fear comes from the government is supposed to do this.

    yes, the left thinks the government is the cornerstone of advancement.
     
  6. TroglocratsRdumb
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    TroglocratsRdumb Silver Member

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    Bill Clinton handed Bush a recession on his first day in office and the Democratic Party's mortgage policies caused the Great Recession.
    Soooooo, the "economy is better under Democrats" is BS. i.e. no cause and effect.
    The Dirty Democrats ALWAYS shift blame and steal credit on the economy.
     
  7. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    No, the fear comes from an idea of companies sinking too much money into R&D and needing welfare (bailed out) as a way of preventing the next great depression.
     
  8. Votto
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    Votto Gold Member

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    Right, it was really Obama's stimulus package that caused all this economic success.

    Thanks for that.
     
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  9. Pete7469
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    Pete7469 Gold Member

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    At What Point Does Obstruction and Denial Of Reality Become Unamerican?

    It was as soon as leftwing soviet apparatchiks in the media and educational institutions took their orders from Moscow and began their agenda to destroy the country.

    The way ordinary liberals ignore reality has become inhuman.

     
  10. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    I thought the bailouts / stimuli really covered both administrations? Stimulus Plan Refunds $600 to $1,200 to Taxpayers

    Anyways, just like Reagan and FDR showed, deficit spending does soften the bad times just like using a credit card at McDonalds can get you a Big Mac when you have no money.
     

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